Through A Rapist's Eyes (NO JOKE) - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

JadziaDax · 05-26-2003, 06:10 AM

This was sent to me by a close friend, and I felt it would benefit all us ladies:

A group of rapists and date rapists in prison were interviewed onwhat they look for in a potential victim and here are some interesting facts:

The first thing men look for in a potential victim is hairstyle. They are most likely to go after a woman with a ponytail, bun, braid or other hairstyle that can easily be grabbed. They are also likely to go after a woman with long hair. Women with short hair are not common targets.

The second thing men look for is clothing. They will look for women who's clothing is easy to remove quickly. Many of them carry scissors around to cut clothing.

They also look for women on their cell phone, searching through their purse or doing other activities while walking because they are off guard and can be easily overpowered.

The time of day men are most likely to attack and rape a woman is in the early morning, between 5 and 8:30 a.m.

The number one place women are abducted from/attacked at is grocery store parking lots. Number two is office parking lots/garages. Number three is public restrooms.

The thing about these men is that they are looking to grab a woman and quickly move her to a second location where they don't have to worry about getting caught.

Only 2% said they carried weapons because rape carries a 3-5 year sentence but rape with a weapon is 15-20 years.

If you put up any kind of a fight at all, they get discouraged because it only takes a minute or two for them to realize that going after you isn't worth it because it will be time-consuming.

These men said they would not pick on women who have umbrellas, or other similar objects that can be used from a distance, in their hands. Keys are not a deterrent because you have to get really close to the attacker to use them as a weapon. So, the idea is to convince these guys you're not worth it.

Several defense mechanisms he taught us are: If someone is following behind you on a street or in a garage or with you in an elevator or stairwell, look them in the face and ask them a question, like what time is it, or make general small talk, I can't believe it is so cold out here, we're in for a bad winter. Now you've seen their face and could identify them in a line-up, you lose appeal as a target.

If someone is coming toward you, hold out your hands in front of you and yell Stop or Stay back! Most of the rapists this man talked to said they'd leave a woman alone if she yelled or showed that she would not be afraid to fight back. Again, they are looking for an EASY target.

If you carry pepper spray (this instructor was a huge advocate of it and carries it with him wherever he goes,) yelling I HAVE PEPPER SPRAY and holding it out will be a deterrent.

If someone grabs you, you can't beat them with strength but you can by outsmarting them:

If you are grabbed around the waist from behind, pinch the attacker either under the arm between the elbow and armpit or in the upper inner thigh - HARD. One woman in a class this guy taught told him she used the underarm pinch on a guy who was trying to date rape her and was so upset she broke through the skin and tore out muscle strands - the guy needed stitches. Try pinching yourself in those places as hard as you can stand it; it hurts.

After the initial hit, always go for the groin. You might think that you'll anger the guy and make him want to hurt you more, but the thing these rapists told our instructor is that they want a woman who will not cause a lot of trouble. Start causing trouble, and he's out of there.

When the guy puts his hands up to you, grab his first two fingers and bend them back as far as possible with as much pressure pushing down on them as possible. The instructor did it to me without using much pressure, and I ended up on my knees and both knuckles cracked audibly.

Of course the things we always hear still apply. Always be aware of your surroundings, take someone with you if you can and if you see any odd behavior, don't dismiss it, go with your instincts. You may feel a little silly at the time, but you'd feel much worse if the guy really was trouble.

Double D · 05-26-2003, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JadziaDax

The first thing men look for in a potential victim is hairstyle. They are most likely to go after a woman with a ponytail, bun, braid or other hairstyle that can easily be grabbed. They are also likely to go after a woman with long hair. Women with short hair are not common targets.

The second thing men look for is clothing. They will look for women whose clothing is easy to remove quickly. Many of them carry scissors around to cut clothing.

There's lots of good info here; I appreciated it. But I'm wondering how women who frequently wear their hair up feel about the above statement. I also wonder if statistically, the statement that women with short hair get victimized less can be borne out.

And the clothing? Forgive me if I sound dense, but if a rapist is carrying scissors, wouldn't any kind of clothing be easy to remove?

Minx · 05-26-2003, 09:12 AM

Thanks for all the information. I have to admit while a lot of this seems like common knowledge I was very surprised by a few of the points - the timing factor.....that most attacks happen early in the morning surprised me very much. I would have thought it would be late at night not necessarily in the morning. And the idea that some happen in public restrooms...frightening over all. And while it is an unfortunate fact that a lot of rapes are committed by someone you know, making it much harder to predict or get away from, what Jadzia said is true - if this information will help just one or two people from becoming a victim it is worth it.

~springrain · 05-27-2003, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by suviko
ugly fact is that most rapes happen inside private apartments by husbands, boyfriends and family members.

*nodding in agreement with Suviko*...

never be afraid to yell NO, STOP, & RAPE at the TOP OF YOUR LUNGS... the adrenaline rush that comes from yelling might even give you the legs to run...

... no matter who it is... fear can paralyze even the "bravest" us

Baileys · 05-28-2003, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Watching my wonderful, strong, perfect husband break down and cry was way more painful than the rape itself.

oh, that would really suck.

Thanks for posting this info.

Angel · 05-28-2003, 11:49 PM

JadziaDax,
Thank you for this very insightful thread. Too many women are unaware of their vulnerabilities until it is too late. For those of us who are victims of rape and/or molestation, there is a clarity and undertanding of what needs to take place to prevent future happenings.

I personally am so very aware of my surroundings at all times. I refuse to ever be an easy target. Life dishes out some pretty tough lessons and hopefully others will learn from our misfortunes.

Me, I have a conceal and carry. I carry a gun on me at all times and I am very well trained in using it and self defense in general. As I said, I refuse to ever be an easy target.

Thanks again for the great thread.

G0dd3ss · 05-29-2003, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JadziaDax
Only 2% said they carried weapons because rape carries a 3-5 year sentence but rape with a weapon is 15-20 years.

That really surprises me. I've always wondered: If I were approached on the street by a man who obviously wanted to rape me if I would risk my life fighting him? I've always assumed that rapists all carried weapons.

With that info...I would hopefully be able to muster the courage to try to defend myself.

Thanks, Jadz!

bondagegirl · 05-30-2003, 06:57 PM

thank you!! THat was very interesting about the pinching defense, I've never heard of that before, but it makes so much sense. It's so hard to say what you would do though if you were in that situation.

I'm so afraid to go in public restrooms because of the above statement... I've heard too many stories of women being raped and murdered, or kids being kidnapped from them. Thats why I always make my man stand RIGHT outside the door, so he can hear everything!! He may think it's a little weird but I feel a little safer with him there.

JadziaDax · 06-05-2003, 01:05 PM

One of our male moderators PM'd me to add some info on the subject. So, with his consent, here is what SecretMethod70 had to add to this subject:

Quote:

Wish I could provide the actual data but the books I've read containing it are at home :/

Quote:

Originally posted by G0dd3ss
That really surprises me. I've always wondered: If I were approached on the street by a man who obviously wanted to rape me if I would risk my life fighting him? I've always assumed that rapists all carried weapons.

With that info...I would hopefully be able to muster the courage to try to defend myself.

Thanks, Jadz!

Studies have shown that women who fight off rape, believe it or not, end up with LESS injuries and often get away on average. Reason being, most rapists do not have an intent to kill (of course, there is the unfortunate minority who won't let killing get in their way, but it's less likely to run into those types). This is part of why, statistically, the most common weapon in rape is a knife - it's meant for intimidation more than anything else.

Put up a fight and never give up, and your chances of getting free are increased dramatically in most circumstances.

JadziaDax · 06-13-2003, 09:45 AM

Another of our male moderators PM'd me asking if I could add something to the topic for us ladies. So, with his consent, here is what rogue49 sent to me:

Quote:

Originally sent by rogue49
When I taught Martial Arts,
I specialized in teaching ladies.

I always showed my female students to go for vital areas.

Knees (with a good kick, they can't run after you now)
Throat (they are to busy trying to breathe)
Eyes (if they can't see you...)
Ears (slam them, and then they are disoriented)
Instep of the foot (a very painful stomp to the top of it)

If you have nails use them.

BTW most men are expecting a shot to the groin,
also sometimes some can take it.

Whatever you can do to shock, disable & run.

Xeen · 06-15-2003, 09:33 AM

Thanks for all of the information. I always thought that being on a mobile would scare men off but I'll think twice about that now....

Dozer · 06-19-2003, 09:41 PM

i wasn't smart enough to read the "no men" part of the title to the forum, and cheers had to edit me. and DAMN was she annoyed!

JadziaDax · 06-29-2003, 03:00 AM

from a male member who did some research:
Although it's not exactly the same e-mail I had received, the information was the same...
found at http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/rape.htm

Quote:

...If rapists choose their victims based on hairstyle and length of tresses, it's news to those in law enforcement; they've never noticed this trend. Rape victims have short hair, long hair, and no hair. They're also young and old, short and tall, fat and skinny, femininely dressed or looking like they just fell off the tractor, and all points in between.

Likewise, the claim that rapists go after women wearing overalls because "the straps can be easily cut" is pure hogwash, as anyone who has ever tried to cut up an old pair can attest. Overalls are made of some of the most resilient fabrics known to mankind (denim and canvas, usually), and cutting these straps is made almost impossible because the fabric is doubled over and seamed at that point in the garment. If there's a pair of scissors that can snip through this, I've yet to wield them.

Rape is also not always about getting sex quickly. Often it's an act of rage or punishment directed at a vulnerable person for perceived injustices done to the attacker by others. Getting a woman out of her clothes quickly isn't a factor in these rapes; terrorizing her and inflicting bodily harm is.

If we take points one and two together, we're to believe that rapists arm themselves with scissors for cutting overall straps (instead of just easing them off the shoulders or -- heaven forbid! -- undoing the fasteners) yet fail to think to equip themselves with a roll of duct tape to keep the victim subdued, preferring instead to grab hold of her hair and hang on.

According to Denver Police Sgt. John Burbach, most rapes occur in the evening hours and into early morning, ending before dawn, not "between 5 and 8:30 a.m." as claimed in the e-mail. Statistics from the U.S. Department of Justice fully support him in this claim: The DOJ says "Approximately two-thirds of rapes/sexual assaults occurred at night -- 6 p.m. to 6 a.m."

As for the tidbit "The number one place women are abducted from/attacked at is grocery store parking lots. Number two is office parking lots/garages. Number three is public restrooms," Kathie Kramer, public relations coordinator at the Denver Rape Assistance and Awareness Program (RAAP) says, "Statistics in studies I've found don't support this idea about grocery stores or parking lots being especially unsafe." Location is important in a violent sexual assault, but there's nothing inherently dangerous about parking lots or public restrooms; what matters is its isolation. Areas heavily frequented by foot traffic are far less likely to be chosen by a rapist. Likewise, badly-lit, less-frequented places will be favored for this type of attack.

The e-mail claims that only 2% of rapists (one out of every fifty) carries a weapon. That figure is seriously out of whack: 1995 U.S. Department of Justice statistics show that weapons were used in 30% of all rapes, meaning the chances that your rapist will be armed is just a little less than one in three. Battling an armed attacker while unarmed yourself is rarely a wise course of action to take, and misstatements such as the 2% figure could well incite an attacked woman to thrust herself into that dynamic because she figures her chances are far better than they actually are.

"If you put up any kind of a fight at all, they get discouraged because it only takes a minute or two for them to realize that going after you isn't worth it because it will be time-consuming." That's great advice, provided you get the right rapist. And you've no way of knowing until it's too late.

As comforting as it might be to believe there's only one sort of baddie out there and if you understand his mind you can stay safe, that just isn't the case. There is no one set of right answers, and e-mails of this ilk potentially put us at even greater risk by suggesting that there is.

Around 1980, Nicholas Groth, director of Forensic Mental Health Associates, established a typology of rapists. Groth arrived at his conclusions by distilling his observations of more than 3,000 sex offenders over the course of 25 years of practice. (Most of his patients, Groth points out, were not sexually deprived at the time they committed rape, thereby exploding that most common of rape myths: that men rape because they're unable to get sex any other way.)

In a general sense, rapists fall into three motivational types: anger, power, and sadism. In anger assaults, the rapist is getting even for "some wrong he feels has been done to him, by life, by his victim at the time. He's in a frame of rage and attacks someone sexually." The anger rape is usually unpremeditated and impulsive, but the impulse drives the rapist into excessive force: the victim is punched, choked, and kicked into submission. Most such offenders derive little pleasure from the act, says Groth, but "they want to degrade their victims, and sex is something bad, dirty, the worst thing you could do to someone. That reflects a lot of our values in society."

An anger rapist could be discouraged by a potential victim who yells at him or puts up a physical struggle, thanks to the unpremeditated nature of the attack. Because the aggressor may not yet have fully decided to pursue this course of action, resistance may well change his mind. Here, even a half-hearted attempt might prove to be all it takes to end the assault. On the other hand, the rage the attacker is feeling might well be further fed by active resistance -- this could be taken as yet another instance of one more person trying to deny him something he wants.

Power rape, according to Groth, is a form of compensation, committed usually by men who feel unsure of their competence. Rape gives them a sense of mastery and control. Power rapists usually hunt for a victim or seize an opportunity that presents itself unbidden. A power rapist is unlikely to be discouraged by resistance because his whole self image is wrapped up in his attempt to prove mastery. A woman who chooses to fight one of these had better do a darned good job of it, because she could well end up fighting for her life.

Groth defines his third type, sadistic rape, as eroticized aggression perpetrated by those whom the very act of forcible sex excites in ways that consensual sex can't. "If the anger components of aggression are eroticized," he explains, "then you see sadistic acts, such as deliberate sexual torture, using an instrument to rape the victim." A sadistic rapist is interested in inflicting pain and lasting harm. Any countering aggression on the part of the victim could well add to the attacker's enjoyment of the experience, prompting him to further acts of depravity in an effort to provoke further resistance.

The question of to fight back or not is an age-old one, and there's no one right answer. Granted, one particular rapist might be sent running bloody-nosed by a swift right hook, but try that on another one and a horrific experience could be transformed into a fatal one. Resistance advice of the type being circulated in the e-mail in question creates the false impression that escaping unscathed from the clutches of a rapist is only a matter of knowing which self-defence tricks to employ. Reality, however, is far different. Not all rapists can be overcome.

Does this then mean self-defence classes are a waste of time? Hardly. But they're also not the surefire protection they're too often touted to be, any more than a can of mace confers upon its wielder guaranteed safe passage through whatever mean streets and dark alleys lie in her path. Also, physical skills are only as good as recent training -- someone who hasn't practiced a move in the three months since she took a course is only a tadge better prepared to fend off an attacker than someone who never had any training at all. Worst of all, such training can lead those who have aced their courses to develop a dangerous complacency about their own safety, inducing them into a state of overconfidence wherein awareness of their surroundings becomes a lost art, buried under the certainty that now bad things can't happen to them.

Complacency kills.

As always, the best defence to an attempted rape is not to be there when it happens -- either avoid potentially dangerous situations (none of this "Oh, it's only a few blocks; I'll just walk" at 3 a.m.) or run like hell if you find yourself in one. Escaping your attacker is a far wiser course of action to strive for than attempting to do battle with him. Forget about his needing a good beating followed by a lengthy jail term; your first priority has to be your own safety. Leave the Wonder Woman stuff for Linda Carter and make like a track star vying for a gold medal in the 100m.

The e-mail did contain one bit of valuable advice: Stay aware of your surroundings. Not only is it important to see trouble coming before it gets to you and avoid it, but an alert stance can help discourage a would-be attacker. Those looking to prey upon others -- whether their aim is robbery, rape, or mayhem -- generally choose as victims those who appear preoccupied or tentative over those who exude a sense of purpose. Or, as I was told long ago, "Always look like you know exactly where you're going and move like you're expected to be there at exactly a certain time." Mooning about aimlessly can make you a statistic.

So, to sum up, is avoiding a rape a matter of wearing your hair short and eschewing overalls? Hardly. And anyone who attempts to characterize it as such ought to be whomped over someone's knee.

Double D · 06-29-2003, 08:46 AM

Parts of Jadzia's post (with major snippage)

Quote:

In a general sense, rapists fall into three motivational types: anger, power, and sadism.

An anger rapist could be discouraged by a potential victim who yells at him or puts up a physical struggle, thanks to the unpremeditated nature of the attack. Because the aggressor may not yet have fully decided to pursue this course of action, resistance may well change his mind. Here, even a half-hearted attempt might prove to be all it takes to end the assault. On the other hand, the rage the attacker is feeling might well be further fed by active resistance -- this could be taken as yet another instance of one more person trying to deny him something he wants.

A power rapist is unlikely to be discouraged by resistance because his whole self image is wrapped up in his attempt to prove mastery. A woman who chooses to fight one of these had better do a darned good job of it, because she could well end up fighting for her life.

If I recall my rape stats (I was a rape victim's advocate for a time) correctly, these two types are encountered with about the same frequency.

Quote:

Groth defines his third type, sadistic rape, as eroticized aggression perpetrated by those whom the very act of forcible sex excites in ways that consensual sex can't. instrument to rape the victim." A sadistic rapist is interested in inflicting pain and lasting harm. Any countering aggression on the part of the victim could well add to the attacker's enjoyment of the experience, prompting him to further acts of depravity in an effort to provoke further resistance.

Fortunately, this type is in the minority of rapists.

Knowing the types of rapists makes us better informed, and that's always good.
Better, is knowing how to avoid increasing your chances of rape.

Rapes are going to happen though, no matter how hard we try to avoid them.
Women are stalked, caught off guard. Often when attacked, it is a no win situation- fighting back with someone that is driven by rage, could have a weapon, and is probably stronger & more powerful than you can be useless and worse, could get you killed.

One really important thing to know beyond all the prevention and anti-rape tactics, is if being raped, try with every ounce of sense you have at at that horrifying time, to remember details of your rapist- everything: physical characteristics, voice, clothing.
This will help a great deal, if the scumbag is caught and goes to trial.

Amethyst · 06-29-2003, 09:33 AM

Thanks for the information. I had never heard of pinching under the arm. I need to be more aware of my surroundings. I just go through life usually in a hurry. I am going to start being more careful about these things. Thanks so much.

motdakasha · 07-03-2003, 05:59 PM

In my Criminology class, I learned there are four categories of rapists. The three mentioned above are anger, power, sadist, but there is a new kind out there, the coward rapist (i.e. date rapist). Of the four different types of rapists, sadistic rapist is the least common and cowardly rapist is becoming more common, or at least more widely acknowledged these days.
The coward rapist is a guy who wants a girl and for whatever reasons (fear of rejection, lack of social skills..) drugs the girl and takes advantage/rapes her to get what he wants. The title is kind of misleading because any rapist could be dangerous or carry a weapon, even a coward rapist.

Extra reading

anti fishstick · 07-04-2003, 06:11 PM

this is all very interesting and informative. i've often thought about what i'd do if i were to encounter this situation. i'm kind of a pacifist so should i fight/resist or not is a common question for me. but then the badass in me wants to come out and think i could kick their ass and wouldn't it be cool to survive something like that knowing it was your self defense skills that saved you

but then again.. i'm small, and not that strong so i'd probably be at a great disadvantage especially if weapons were involved.

i'd probably fight.. but fight intelligently. get a feel for the attacker and his 'type'. if it's power he wants.. i'm not giving him any. but would that mean compliance and no struggle?? the willingness to do what he says would no longer be a controlling situation. no power.. it would be like saying i'm not playing this power role game. orrr would it be trying to gain back power by fighting? *i* have the control. whereas fighting back would still be playing the game...

i dont know. but i would find the first, safe chance i could get and run away. if its fight or flight.. i'd choose flight. i guess i came to the conclusion that i'd try to be pacifist and do anything i can NOT to have him take control of me. and then, get the hell out of there the moment i've caught him off guard. i guess i don't REALLY know what i'd do until it happens though. which hopefully will never happen... but this post made me think twice that maybe self defense is the way to go

JadziaDax · 08-01-2003, 03:13 PM

From SecretMethod70 (who asked me to post this for him):

Quote:

Here are some interesting tidbits of information...

"In 1996, the National Academy of Sciences' Panel on Research on Violence Against Women concluded on page 1 of its report, Understanding Violence Against Women, that 'between 13 and 25 percent of all US women will experience rape. These figures are believed to be underestimates.'"

"The US Bureau of Justice Statistics reports that nearly all rape victims are young: 88 percent of the 1,634,000 female victims reported in a huge sample from the 1980s were between the ages of twelve and thirty-fiev years old. By the mid-1990s, 90.3 percent of all known rapes occurred in this age group, which encompassed fewer than one third of all females in America, but included nearly all fertile women. Even more revealing, although 77 percent of all rape victims were between 16 and 24 years old, these women accounted for only about one tenth - again, the most fertile and sexually attractive one tenth - of the entire female population."

"Two thirds of men who raped the 1.6 million victims above were strangers. By 1990, 88 percent of reported rapists were solitary sexual predators who shared their victims with no one. And, like their victims, sexual predators were typically young. 44% of men arrested for rape were under 25 years old; most of the remaining rapists were men in their late twenties or thirties. Only a third of these men were under the influence ... during their offenses."

"Like most felons, sexual predators are uneducated, are unemployed or underemployed, and have low incomes. Indeed, the most common trait of men arrested for rape is that they are early losers ... in the socioeconomic arena. (This may help to explain why blacks account for a disproportionate, but stable, 42 percent of arrests for rape.)"

"Although nearly all sexual predators threaten to use force, only 14.8 percent of US rapists use a weapon. In the mid-1990s, these weapons were mostly knives. Only 5.9 percent of known rapists use a gun. One quarter of rapists use threats but comit no violence. Surprisingly, the use of a weapon raises the success of rape attempts by only 9 percent."

"'Most individuals using self-protection were victims of attempted rape [only 27 percent were raped],' notes [the US Department of Justice bulletin] The Crime of Rape, 'while most not using self-protection were victims of completed rapes [56 percent were raped].' This huge survey of rape victims [479,000] reveals that a woman who protects herself, whether by arguing, screaming, running away, and/or fighting back, doubles her chances of escaping rape, but she raises her odds of being physically harmed by only 10 percent."

Just a few tidbits of info - all taken from the book "The Dark Side of Man" by Dr. Michael P. Ghiglieri. VERY good read, and I recommend it to anyone. It sets out to begin to explain and understand the root of violence, discussing the ature of the 4 major forms of violence in humans: rape, murder, war, and genocide.

Cedar · 08-01-2003, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ~springrain

never be afraid to yell NO, STOP, & RAPE at the TOP OF YOUR LUNGS...

I was always taught that it's much better to yell "Fire" rather than "Rape." Why? Rape is seen as a personal matter, tied into sex and all. (I know, I know, but I didn't say I agreed with it.) A fire threatens the entire community of nearby people, and they are more likely to follow the sound of your voice.

The things you learn from your sorority sisters.

ktthequeen · 08-02-2003, 12:39 PM

Despite the statistics, I'd say date rape or "cowardly rape" (I've never herad that term) is most common.

why?

I have many examples..

myself
and countless friends

All of the rapes I have personally heard aobut were date rape and noone ever called the cops because the few that ended up pressing charges got so much negative attention to themselves and the attacker was never found guilty. Damn "he said, she said" shit.

lola218 · 08-16-2003, 10:35 AM

This was great info. I don't think that any one thinks about this stuff until it's to late. I'm spreading this out to all my friends.

05-26-2003, 06:10 AM	#1 (permalink)
JadziaDax Loser Location: who the fuck cares?	Through A Rapist's Eyes (NO JOKE) This was sent to me by a close friend, and I felt it would benefit all us ladies: A group of rapists and date rapists in prison were interviewed onwhat they look for in a potential victim and here are some interesting facts: The first thing men look for in a potential victim is hairstyle. They are most likely to go after a woman with a ponytail, bun, braid or other hairstyle that can easily be grabbed. They are also likely to go after a woman with long hair. Women with short hair are not common targets. The second thing men look for is clothing. They will look for women who's clothing is easy to remove quickly. Many of them carry scissors around to cut clothing. They also look for women on their cell phone, searching through their purse or doing other activities while walking because they are off guard and can be easily overpowered. The time of day men are most likely to attack and rape a woman is in the early morning, between 5 and 8:30 a.m. The number one place women are abducted from/attacked at is grocery store parking lots. Number two is office parking lots/garages. Number three is public restrooms. The thing about these men is that they are looking to grab a woman and quickly move her to a second location where they don't have to worry about getting caught. Only 2% said they carried weapons because rape carries a 3-5 year sentence but rape with a weapon is 15-20 years. If you put up any kind of a fight at all, they get discouraged because it only takes a minute or two for them to realize that going after you isn't worth it because it will be time-consuming. These men said they would not pick on women who have umbrellas, or other similar objects that can be used from a distance, in their hands. Keys are not a deterrent because you have to get really close to the attacker to use them as a weapon. So, the idea is to convince these guys you're not worth it. Several defense mechanisms he taught us are: If someone is following behind you on a street or in a garage or with you in an elevator or stairwell, look them in the face and ask them a question, like what time is it, or make general small talk, I can't believe it is so cold out here, we're in for a bad winter. Now you've seen their face and could identify them in a line-up, you lose appeal as a target. If someone is coming toward you, hold out your hands in front of you and yell Stop or Stay back! Most of the rapists this man talked to said they'd leave a woman alone if she yelled or showed that she would not be afraid to fight back. Again, they are looking for an EASY target. If you carry pepper spray (this instructor was a huge advocate of it and carries it with him wherever he goes,) yelling I HAVE PEPPER SPRAY and holding it out will be a deterrent. If someone grabs you, you can't beat them with strength but you can by outsmarting them: If you are grabbed around the waist from behind, pinch the attacker either under the arm between the elbow and armpit or in the upper inner thigh - HARD. One woman in a class this guy taught told him she used the underarm pinch on a guy who was trying to date rape her and was so upset she broke through the skin and tore out muscle strands - the guy needed stitches. Try pinching yourself in those places as hard as you can stand it; it hurts. After the initial hit, always go for the groin. You might think that you'll anger the guy and make him want to hurt you more, but the thing these rapists told our instructor is that they want a woman who will not cause a lot of trouble. Start causing trouble, and he's out of there. When the guy puts his hands up to you, grab his first two fingers and bend them back as far as possible with as much pressure pushing down on them as possible. The instructor did it to me without using much pressure, and I ended up on my knees and both knuckles cracked audibly. Of course the things we always hear still apply. Always be aware of your surroundings, take someone with you if you can and if you see any odd behavior, don't dismiss it, go with your instincts. You may feel a little silly at the time, but you'd feel much worse if the guy really was trouble.

05-26-2003, 09:12 AM	#3 (permalink)
Minx Junkie Location: Up yonder	Thanks for all the information. I have to admit while a lot of this seems like common knowledge I was very surprised by a few of the points - the timing factor.....that most attacks happen early in the morning surprised me very much. I would have thought it would be late at night not necessarily in the morning. And the idea that some happen in public restrooms...frightening over all. And while it is an unfortunate fact that a lot of rapes are committed by someone you know, making it much harder to predict or get away from, what Jadzia said is true - if this information will help just one or two people from becoming a victim it is worth it. __________________ You've been a naughty boy....go to my room!

05-28-2003, 11:49 PM	#6 (permalink)
Angel Naughty Just Right Location: Euphoria	JadziaDax, Thank you for this very insightful thread. Too many women are unaware of their vulnerabilities until it is too late. For those of us who are victims of rape and/or molestation, there is a clarity and undertanding of what needs to take place to prevent future happenings. I personally am so very aware of my surroundings at all times. I refuse to ever be an easy target. Life dishes out some pretty tough lessons and hopefully others will learn from our misfortunes. Me, I have a conceal and carry. I carry a gun on me at all times and I am very well trained in using it and self defense in general. As I said, I refuse to ever be an easy target. Thanks again for the great thread. __________________ In the depth of winter, I finally learned that there was within me an invincible summer. ~Albert Camus

05-30-2003, 06:57 PM	#8 (permalink)
bondagegirl Muy loca en la cabeza!! Location: San Diego. Ca.	thank you!! THat was very interesting about the pinching defense, I've never heard of that before, but it makes so much sense. It's so hard to say what you would do though if you were in that situation. I'm so afraid to go in public restrooms because of the above statement... I've heard too many stories of women being raped and murdered, or kids being kidnapped from them. Thats why I always make my man stand RIGHT outside the door, so he can hear everything!! He may think it's a little weird but I feel a little safer with him there. __________________ "Dream as if you'll live forever, Live as if you'll die today."

06-15-2003, 09:33 AM	#11 (permalink)
Xeen Psycho Location: UK	Thanks for all of the information. I always thought that being on a mobile would scare men off but I'll think twice about that now.... __________________ ~~ Xeen ~~ This court rules that religion must stay 500 yards away from science at all times.

06-19-2003, 09:41 PM	#12 (permalink)
Dozer Banned	i wasn't smart enough to read the "no men" part of the title to the forum, and cheers had to edit me. and DAMN was she annoyed! Last edited by cheerios; 06-19-2003 at 10:00 PM..

06-29-2003, 09:33 AM	#15 (permalink)
Amethyst Addict Location: Illinois	Thanks for the information. I had never heard of pinching under the arm. I need to be more aware of my surroundings. I just go through life usually in a hurry. I am going to start being more careful about these things. Thanks so much.

07-03-2003, 05:59 PM	#16 (permalink)
motdakasha Hiya Puddin'! Miss me? Location: Silicon Valley, CA	In my Criminology class, I learned there are four categories of rapists. The three mentioned above are anger, power, sadist, but there is a new kind out there, the coward rapist (i.e. date rapist). Of the four different types of rapists, sadistic rapist is the least common and cowardly rapist is becoming more common, or at least more widely acknowledged these days. The coward rapist is a guy who wants a girl and for whatever reasons (fear of rejection, lack of social skills..) drugs the girl and takes advantage/rapes her to get what he wants. The title is kind of misleading because any rapist could be dangerous or carry a weapon, even a coward rapist. Extra reading __________________ =^-^= motdakasha =^-^= Just Google It. BA Psychology & Photography (I'm not going psychoanalyze you nor will I let you cry on my shoulder. Have a nice day.) Last edited by motdakasha; 07-03-2003 at 06:09 PM..

07-04-2003, 06:11 PM	#17 (permalink)
anti fishstick Post-modernism meets Individualism AKA the Clash Location: oregon	this is all very interesting and informative. i've often thought about what i'd do if i were to encounter this situation. i'm kind of a pacifist so should i fight/resist or not is a common question for me. but then the badass in me wants to come out and think i could kick their ass and wouldn't it be cool to survive something like that knowing it was your self defense skills that saved you but then again.. i'm small, and not that strong so i'd probably be at a great disadvantage especially if weapons were involved. i'd probably fight.. but fight intelligently. get a feel for the attacker and his 'type'. if it's power he wants.. i'm not giving him any. but would that mean compliance and no struggle?? the willingness to do what he says would no longer be a controlling situation. no power.. it would be like saying i'm not playing this power role game. orrr would it be trying to gain back power by fighting? i have the control. whereas fighting back would still be playing the game... i dont know. but i would find the first, safe chance i could get and run away. if its fight or flight.. i'd choose flight. i guess i came to the conclusion that i'd try to be pacifist and do anything i can NOT to have him take control of me. and then, get the hell out of there the moment i've caught him off guard. i guess i don't REALLY know what i'd do until it happens though. which hopefully will never happen... but this post made me think twice that maybe self defense is the way to go __________________ And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. ~Anais Nin

08-02-2003, 12:39 PM	#20 (permalink)
ktthequeen Insane Location: Earth	Despite the statistics, I'd say date rape or "cowardly rape" (I've never herad that term) is most common. why? I have many examples.. myself and countless friends All of the rapes I have personally heard aobut were date rape and noone ever called the cops because the few that ended up pressing charges got so much negative attention to themselves and the attacker was never found guilty. Damn "he said, she said" shit.

08-16-2003, 10:35 AM	#21 (permalink)
lola218 Tilted Location: beverly hills,fl	This was great info. I don't think that any one thinks about this stuff until it's to late. I'm spreading this out to all my friends.