Coffeeshop Turns off Wi-Fi on Weekends - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

quadro2000 · 06-02-2005, 08:28 AM

Quote:

May 26, 2005
Coffeeshop Turns off Wi-Fi on Weekends

By Glenn Fleishman

Pic CafemenuIt’s too early to say whether it’s a trend, but Victrola Coffee & Art in Seattle shuts down its free Wi-Fi on Saturday and Sunday: I spoke to co-owner and co-founder Jen Strongin today after a colleague tipped me to the fact that this lovely, single-shop coffee establishment had decided to experiment with taking back its culture by turning off the Wi-Fi juice on weekends.

Strongin said that the five-year-old cafe added free Wi-Fi when it seemed their customers wanted it a couple of years ago. It initially brought in more people, she said, but over the past year “we noticed a significant change in the environment of the cafe.” Before Wi-Fi, “People talked to each other, strangers met each other,” she said. Solitary activities might involve reading and writing, but it was part of the milieu. “Those people co-existed with people having conversations,” said Strongin.

But “over the past year it seems that nobody talks to each other any more,” she said. On the weekends, 80 to 90 percent of tables and chairs are taken up by people using computers. Many laptop users occupy two or more seats by themselves, as well. Victrola isn’t on the way to anywhere; it’s in the middle of a vibrant stretch of shops and restaurants on Capitol Hill’s 15th Ave. It’s exactly the kind of place that you want to sit down in, not just breeze through.

Worse than just the sheer number of laptop users, Strongin noted, is that many of these patrons will camp six to eight hours—and not buy anything. This seemed astounding to me, but she said that it was typical, not unusual. The staff doesn’t want to have to enforce the cafe’s unspoken policy of making a purchase to use the space (and the Wi-Fi), and on the occasions that they approach a non-buyer about a purchase asking, “Can I get you a beverage?” the squatter often becomes defensive, explains they’ve bought a lot in the past or just the day before.

“It’s just really really difficult. We’ve had so many heated debates about it. We want people to linger at the cafe. We’re not a fast-food coffeeshop. We want people to feel comfortable staying here as long as they please,” Strongin said.

They’ve gone two weekends with no Wi-Fi, and so far, they’re pleased with the results. The staff “loves it,” she said, and regular customers are “coming up to us and thanking us.” They have received a few nasty emails. But Strongin said that last Sunday was one of the best revenue days they’ve had on the weekends in a while. “It was kind of a bold move.”

Strongin says that Victrola isn’t interested in charging for Wi-Fi as a tool to limit or moderate use, and still thinks that free Wi-Fi is a great amenity that they can offer their customers at the right time. They have no plans to remove it entirely.

But, she said, “I don’t like going into a cafe, any cafe, including my own, and just seeing a sea of laptops and people not interacting.”

Update: Tonx, Victrola’s roaster, posted his own insider take on the matter. He notes, “A few customers were in painful enough withdrawal that they stayed home, finding time to send email about how upsetting it was. But the overwhelming response was positive.”

Posted by Glennf at May 26, 2005 04:35 PM

Categories: Culture , Hot Spot

I'm kind of removed from this culture because I'm still a loser without a laptop. I don't have a 'net connection unless I'm plugged into something. But after doing some surfing on Supple Cow's laptop from a hammock in the backyard this weekend, I've finally caught up to the 21st Century and I understand how awesome it is to be anywhere in the city with either an instant net connection, or one closeby in a coffee shop or cafe. Jess and I have talked about what it would be like to open up our own cafe at some point, and including free Wi-Fi access is something we'd obviously want to do.

But I never really thought about the potential downside that co-owner Jen Strongin mentions, that people are becoming more anti-social within the shop. I don't spent a lot of time in coffeeshops, so I haven't taken real note of the culture that exists within. While they are sure to anger some customers, I give them a lot of credit here. They're concerned with maintaining their social vibe.

I wasn't surprised to read their other point, which is that they wind up with people who will sit in their shop for six hours without purchasing anything. They do want customers to feel comfortable in their environment, but a business is still a business.

Those of you who frequent coffeeshops with your laptops, what's your take on this? When you go to a cafe, do you go just to use the Wi-Fi? Do you buy something? How long do you stay? Would you be irritated if they limited the access on weekends, or perhaps changed to a system where you got an hour-long login/password once you bought something?

scott_p_1 · 06-02-2005, 08:54 AM

I've never brought my laptop to a coffee shop to use wifi. When I go to a cafe like that, I go there to sit down, relax, and chat with friends.

I guess I just don't really see the point of bringing a laptop in, sitting down and surfing the net. Most people would only have their laptop on them when they're going to or from work or school. In that case, I'd just rather wait and use it at work, school or home. And if I'm out for some other reason, chances are, I wouldn't have my laptop with me, because I'm trying to get away from the computer.

I suppose if I were on a trip and wanted to check my email, I might go by a cafe. I couldn't imagine not buying anything when I went in though.

I think a good idea might be to change the WEP password daily and have the password printed on the reciept.

martinguerre · 06-02-2005, 08:55 AM

if i'm using free wifi, i will purchase *something*

with the shop that's near me, i'm not picky about sometimes ordering small one day, since i know i give them a fair amount of business. if i'm there to work, i don't want any hassle...i bring headphones and shut the world out. but one of the things i did like is to work there with one of my friends...we'd each have our laptops and be busy most of the time, but take breaks and order another round and talk for a bit before going back to the grind.

any of this intentional social management just seems insulting. i'd stop going to a place if they tried anything like that...

jorgelito · 06-02-2005, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scott_p_1

I think a good idea might be to change the WEP password daily and have the password printed on the reciept.

That's a great idea: non-intrusive and discreet.

quadro2000 · 06-02-2005, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martinguerre

any of this intentional social management just seems insulting. i'd stop going to a place if they tried anything like that...

I don't think this is an example of intentional social management. I would imagine that the community vibe evolved quite naturally, but the abundance of laptops actually hindered it. They're not looking to force any relationships, just trying to make sure they're not unintentionally thwarted.

Cynthetiq · 06-02-2005, 10:18 AM

problem with doing the WEP portion is that most people aren't technically literate, they just turn it on and go.

as far as the places I've been too.. I'm in agreement with the owner of the space. I've seen this change over as well. I don't hang out at them. I go to them periodically and I just follow their trends as I thought of opening a coffee shop with internet access back in 1993.

snowy · 06-02-2005, 10:19 AM

I live in a college town, so there are coffeeshops where people do this. However, there are also a lot of coffeeshops where people go to study--there's really no difference between the two. Both are solitary activities.

I have been known to go to a local coffeeshop for some study time every now and again--I always buy something (they have the best hot chocolate in town).

I think if you're going to use the free wi-fi you should buy something. But the coffeeshop has the right to turn it off--if the culture of their coffeeshop is one that is more social, then I think they're doing the right thing to encourage social behavior versus solitary pursuits. However, in many of the coffeeshops around my town, solitary behavior is the norm--us students are too busy studying!

Cynthetiq · 06-02-2005, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martinguerre

any of this intentional social management just seems insulting. i'd stop going to a place if they tried anything like that...

I'm going to bring it home for you....and frame it around TFP.

If people here don't post, then it's not a place worth visiting. If people here are not interacting socially, then why would people continue to come here?

We don't force people to talk to each other here, we just try to encourage it. The more you participate the more you'll be able to participate in. You may call that "intentional social management"...

AngelicVampire · 06-02-2005, 02:29 PM

Tradition says 1 drink/2 hours is good rate as a minimum... at least thats what we tend to stick to when studying in coffee shops (multiple people so its 1+drinks/hr for the table). Seems unfair to use their space without paying.

Cuatela · 06-02-2005, 03:54 PM

question: if you're only there to use Wi-Fi, and you can afford a laptop, why not go home and use the internet service you should also be able to afford?

Ustwo · 06-02-2005, 04:10 PM

I've never been a big coffee shop fan. As a study location its pretty piss poor, but it makes you feel like you are doing something. As a socializing location, they are ok, but if its early enough for coffee I should be doing something productive, and if it late enough to socialize I'd rather be at a bar.

I know a lot of people who enjoy the pseudo-intellectual vibe of the coffee shop but I'm not one of them.

This could all stem from the fact that I don't care for coffee

Mephisto2 · 06-02-2005, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

I've never been a big coffee shop fan. As a study location its pretty piss poor, but it makes you feel like you are doing something. As a socializing location, they are ok, but if its early enough for coffee I should be doing something productive, and if it late enough to socialize I'd rather be at a bar.

I know a lot of people who enjoy the pseudo-intellectual vibe of the coffee shop but I'm not one of them.

This could all stem from the fact that I don't care for coffee

I agree 100% with what Ustwo said, apart from his last statement. I'm very partial to a well-made cup of coffee.

Which, by the way, is something almost impossible to get in the US. Starbucks sucks.

Come to Australia, or go to Europe, for some real coffee.

Mr Mephisto

Ustwo · 06-02-2005, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Mephisto

Come to Australia, or go to Europe, for some real coffee.

If its like your real beer I keep hearing about, no thanks. Refrigeration was invented for a reason

Edit: Mmmm can't say if Aussies are into the warm beer swill now that I think about it.

shakran · 06-02-2005, 05:06 PM

I think I'm a very unusual american because I much prefer my beer warm

Best cup of coffee I've had in the USA was at Cafe du Monde in New Orleans. Man I miss that town.

Mephisto2 · 06-02-2005, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

If its like your real beer I keep hearing about, no thanks. Refrigeration was invented for a reason

Edit: Mmmm can't say if Aussies are into the warm beer swill now that I think about it.

Hahaha... I hear ya Ustwo. UK beer sucks.

The Aussies are into cold, very very cold, beer. They even have these little insulated sweaters for their beers called "Stubbie Holders", to ensure they keep their low temperature during the hot days here.

Personally, I drink Heineken. Cold Heineken. And sometimes Guinness.

Mr Mephisto

quadro2000 · 06-02-2005, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raptor226

question: if you're only there to use Wi-Fi, and you can afford a laptop, why not go home and use the internet service you should also be able to afford?

A number of reasons.

1) The typical NYC apartment barely has room for a bed, let alone a bed and a desk.

2) Many people feel they work better outside of the house;

3) In many urban areas, people commute away from their house (on the outskirts of a city) and are in the city doing various tasks during the day. It's easier to step into a coffee shop to check e-mail than it is to go all the way home.

I don't think it's about the price of internet service, it's about the convenience for the user.

martinguerre · 06-03-2005, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

I'm going to bring it home for you....and frame it around TFP.

If people here don't post, then it's not a place worth visiting. If people here are not interacting socially, then why would people continue to come here?

We don't force people to talk to each other here, we just try to encourage it. The more you participate the more you'll be able to participate in. You may call that "intentional social management"...

I'm a guest here. When i pay to be in a coffee shop, i am a patron. And i know the difference between the two. One gives assent to participate in an experience that i do not entirely fund, control, or govern. the other is my paid participation in a contract. I accept that the TFP, or other social situations may be governed by rules or orders that i don't entirely like, or even social managements that i do like. That's a duh. But when a business decides that it will make decisions for prospective patrons, trying to engineer a particular response, i'm far less likely to accept that place as a place where i want to do business.

Now, I think i'm a pretty easy patron, and i tip well to the folks who make my stay a better one. But i'll be damned if they want to jerk customers around with when they offer certain services to tweak the "vibe" of the place...

tres · 06-03-2005, 03:59 AM

This is interesting.... I bring my laptop everywhere I go. From a consumer standpoint, the opportunity to stop in to a coffee shop, and catch up with my life ie: check mail (which is how I get work), study, or just to BS on AIM. I might be a little mad, if I'm going to this place and expecting to get on the net, and then nothing.

However... from a business standpoint, I think they are totally right. They can do whatever they want, after all it's their business, and they will do with it what they like. I think it says something about the owners, that they actually care about society and solitude, witch it where it is heading.. since people can get all their answers on the internet, and never havce to deal with people.

What I would do is give the internet for free during the week, when the mid days might be a little bit slower during the middle of the day. It should bring in customers, and hopefully they will buy something. On the weekends, It would be available, by purchase with a WEP key. During the weekends when it might be a little busier it will keep out the Wifi squatters and bring offer the net to people who really want and deserve it. I might consider offering a small discount if people agreed NOT to use the Wifi in hopes that it would bring people in to socialize. But...I'm not a business major.. so... what do I know?

Cynthetiq · 06-03-2005, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martinguerre

I'm a guest here. When i pay to be in a coffee shop, i am a patron. And i know the difference between the two. One gives assent to participate in an experience that i do not entirely fund, control, or govern. the other is my paid participation in a contract. I accept that the TFP, or other social situations may be governed by rules or orders that i don't entirely like, or even social managements that i do like. That's a duh. But when a business decides that it will make decisions for prospective patrons, trying to engineer a particular response, i'm far less likely to accept that place as a place where i want to do business.

Now, I think i'm a pretty easy patron, and i tip well to the folks who make my stay a better one. But i'll be damned if they want to jerk customers around with when they offer certain services to tweak the "vibe" of the place...

By what you are saying is that the business owner does not have the ability to stimulate his business the way he sees fit. Business owners do this all th etime, it's called marketing to a niche. They know that they lost some of their original core business, they looked and saw the problems that was causing that and addressed it.

I'll give you more examples of how it happens all the time.

Bar owners have to keep the bar filled to maximum as possible in order to be profitable. Most places the bar is packed on Friday and Saturday as a given. How to stimulate business on the less desired days? Market to a niche.

There are some bars here in MAnhattan that on Monday it's an BDSM crowd, Tuesday night it's a Gay scene, Wednesday Ladies night, Thursday Rocker night.

Suddenly the bar owner increases his business because of "intentional social management"...

What I think is most interesting is that you feel entitled to this service as a patron. I find it no different than the owners saying on M-F I offer a free bowl of chips with any purchase and on weekends I don't.

martinguerre · 06-03-2005, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

By what you are saying is that the business owner does not have the ability to stimulate his business the way he sees fit. Business owners do this all th etime, it's called marketing to a niche. They know that they lost some of their original core business, they looked and saw the problems that was causing that and addressed it.

I'll give you more examples of how it happens all the time.

Bar owners have to keep the bar filled to maximum as possible in order to be profitable. Most places the bar is packed on Friday and Saturday as a given. How to stimulate business on the less desired days? Market to a niche.

There are some bars here in MAnhattan that on Monday it's an BDSM crowd, Tuesday night it's a Gay scene, Wednesday Ladies night, Thursday Rocker night.

Suddenly the bar owner increases his business because of "intentional social management"...

What I think is most interesting is that you feel entitled to this service as a patron. I find it no different than the owners saying on M-F I offer a free bowl of chips with any purchase and on weekends I don't.

No, i don't think the owner doesn't have the right. I wasn't going to sue the bastard. I was going to quietly find another coffee shop. If they want to reposition for the market, i reposition my coffee loving arse.

I do feel entitled, becuase it's something that i paid for. I enter a contract with that coffee shop down the street every couple of mornings. I pay an average of three dollars for every hour i stay. In return, i expect coffee, perhaps a donut, and use of the wireless internet system.

That i get all that in return for my money is why i attend that coffee shop. It's part of my purchase. So yeah, i do think i'm entitled. Now, i perhaps ought to be clear...this hasn't happened, at least yet. I'm responding in the abstract to the article, but the place i go doesn't have limits on Wifi, has always made me happy with the service, and my frequent coffee card is about half full if memory serves. I'm a picky customer, i know, but i don't want to give the impression that i'm a screaming little hellion. I'm quite capable of selecting businesses that i know will not jerk me around, and give me the customer experience that i prefer...and i'm willing to pay prices that reflect that level of service.

Cynthetiq · 06-03-2005, 08:48 AM

right you will vote with your feet and dollars as is expected and the best solution for everyone.

the business owner may find out that alienating that portion of his business may be less profitable.

quadro2000 · 06-03-2005, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

right you will vote with your feet and dollars as is expected and the best solution for everyone.

the business owner may find out that alienating that portion of his business may be less profitable.

Right, and then it will be up to the owner to decide what is more valuable: community "vibe" or dollars. I'm sure a lot of thought went into the decision, and that's why it's currently only being limited on the weekends - when people are probably more likely to stroll in and relax, as opposed to using it as a haven to get work done.

It'll be interesting to see how this pans out.

Lockjaw · 06-03-2005, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

right you will vote with your feet and dollars as is expected and the best solution for everyone.

the business owner may find out that alienating that portion of his business may be less profitable.

Possibly but I'd be willing to bet the silent bandwidth leeches probably ran off a good bit of their regulars in the first place. And I'd be willing to bet their weekday business wouldn't take a big hit considering there aren't THAT many people that hawk around a coffeeshop waisting away their Saturdays and Sundays.

Honestly...I'm at a loss of why one would spend hours on end in a coffeeshop on the weekend. Even the checking e-mail thing doesn't really jive with me considering so many cellphones and PDAs have the ability to connect to the net for e-mail purposes.

PulpMind · 06-03-2005, 11:29 PM

that is so weird that Victrola made national news (and international - the story also appeared in london), just by turning off the free wifi on the weekends. I live just a few blocks from there, and it seems entirely natural for them to do this, considering the number of leechers that hang out there.

Gilda · 06-03-2005, 11:32 PM

Hmmm. I really don't understand the point of going to a coffee shop for the purpose of reading, studying, or using a computer. I'm a lot more comfortable doing that stuff here at home, where it's nice and quiet, or where I can blast the music without worrying about annoying others (having an empty unit next door is soooo nice). And I don't like coffee, so when I go into a coffee shop, it's to eat. I don't think I'll ever understand the idea of reading/studying in a public place like that, particularly a restaurant; it just doesn't connect in my mind.

On to the op. Anyone who sits around, taking up space for 6 hours and not buying anything isn't a customer, and the owners have every right to insist they buy something or leave. This wouldn't even be rude; it's the jerks who take up their space without buying anything who are being rude. The Wi-Fi listed is a free service, as in the people there aren't paying for it. The owners are under no obligation to provide any free service. Complaining about not getting something from a business that you don't pay for in the first place seems petty and inconsiderate to me.

Supple Cow · 06-05-2005, 03:19 PM

I'm surprised that nobody in here has batted an eye at the assumption that it is better to do this type of activity at home or that if one has a laptop ("can afford one") it must mean that they can also afford internet access. I know I'm not the only college student around here, and I can think of a bunch of reasons for thinking a public place with free wi-fi is infinitely better than whatever "private" setup a student has at "home" (the dorms or some over-crowded shared apartment off campus). Also, not all schools provide free internet. I know that Juilliard students in the dorms have to pay for their internet while my school included it in all the rooms. If I were a student who received a laptop as a present (which is pretty common), I would not have been able to afford internet access in my room unless my school already provided it with the cost of housing and I most certainly would not have wanted to take out an extra $x a month in student loans to make it happen.

Janey · 06-06-2005, 05:49 AM

well, it is something that is becomming more common, but still is not a necessity. yes there are those who are more lucky, so to speak, They would be the same ones that had encyclopedias at home and didn't have to go to the library, during a previous generation.

If I was a shop owner, I would definitely wnat to craete traffic (that flows) rather than susidize squatters.

dksuddeth · 06-06-2005, 09:53 AM

If I hit the coffee shop, I bring a book to read...unless of course I'm on call =(

06-02-2005, 08:54 AM	#2 (permalink)
scott_p_1 Crazy	I've never brought my laptop to a coffee shop to use wifi. When I go to a cafe like that, I go there to sit down, relax, and chat with friends. I guess I just don't really see the point of bringing a laptop in, sitting down and surfing the net. Most people would only have their laptop on them when they're going to or from work or school. In that case, I'd just rather wait and use it at work, school or home. And if I'm out for some other reason, chances are, I wouldn't have my laptop with me, because I'm trying to get away from the computer. I suppose if I were on a trip and wanted to check my email, I might go by a cafe. I couldn't imagine not buying anything when I went in though. I think a good idea might be to change the WEP password daily and have the password printed on the reciept. __________________ <Insert witty and profound statements here>

06-02-2005, 08:55 AM	#3 (permalink)
martinguerre whosoever Location: New England	if i'm using free wifi, i will purchase something with the shop that's near me, i'm not picky about sometimes ordering small one day, since i know i give them a fair amount of business. if i'm there to work, i don't want any hassle...i bring headphones and shut the world out. but one of the things i did like is to work there with one of my friends...we'd each have our laptops and be busy most of the time, but take breaks and order another round and talk for a bit before going back to the grind. any of this intentional social management just seems insulting. i'd stop going to a place if they tried anything like that... __________________ For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life. -John 3:16

06-02-2005, 10:18 AM	#6 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	problem with doing the WEP portion is that most people aren't technically literate, they just turn it on and go. as far as the places I've been too.. I'm in agreement with the owner of the space. I've seen this change over as well. I don't hang out at them. I go to them periodically and I just follow their trends as I thought of opening a coffee shop with internet access back in 1993. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

06-02-2005, 10:19 AM	#7 (permalink)
snowy Kick Ass Kunoichi Location: Oregon	I live in a college town, so there are coffeeshops where people do this. However, there are also a lot of coffeeshops where people go to study--there's really no difference between the two. Both are solitary activities. I have been known to go to a local coffeeshop for some study time every now and again--I always buy something (they have the best hot chocolate in town). I think if you're going to use the free wi-fi you should buy something. But the coffeeshop has the right to turn it off--if the culture of their coffeeshop is one that is more social, then I think they're doing the right thing to encourage social behavior versus solitary pursuits. However, in many of the coffeeshops around my town, solitary behavior is the norm--us students are too busy studying! __________________ If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

06-02-2005, 03:54 PM	#10 (permalink)
Cuatela Insane Location: NC, USA	question: if you're only there to use Wi-Fi, and you can afford a laptop, why not go home and use the internet service you should also be able to afford? __________________ Any sarcasm was intentional.

06-02-2005, 02:29 PM	#9 (permalink)
AngelicVampire Insane	Tradition says 1 drink/2 hours is good rate as a minimum... at least thats what we tend to stick to when studying in coffee shops (multiple people so its 1+drinks/hr for the table). Seems unfair to use their space without paying.

06-02-2005, 04:10 PM	#11 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	I've never been a big coffee shop fan. As a study location its pretty piss poor, but it makes you feel like you are doing something. As a socializing location, they are ok, but if its early enough for coffee I should be doing something productive, and if it late enough to socialize I'd rather be at a bar. I know a lot of people who enjoy the pseudo-intellectual vibe of the coffee shop but I'm not one of them. This could all stem from the fact that I don't care for coffee __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

06-02-2005, 05:06 PM	#14 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	I think I'm a very unusual american because I much prefer my beer warm Best cup of coffee I've had in the USA was at Cafe du Monde in New Orleans. Man I miss that town.

06-03-2005, 03:59 AM	#18 (permalink)
tres Insane Location: Long Island, NY	This is interesting.... I bring my laptop everywhere I go. From a consumer standpoint, the opportunity to stop in to a coffee shop, and catch up with my life ie: check mail (which is how I get work), study, or just to BS on AIM. I might be a little mad, if I'm going to this place and expecting to get on the net, and then nothing. However... from a business standpoint, I think they are totally right. They can do whatever they want, after all it's their business, and they will do with it what they like. I think it says something about the owners, that they actually care about society and solitude, witch it where it is heading.. since people can get all their answers on the internet, and never havce to deal with people. What I would do is give the internet for free during the week, when the mid days might be a little bit slower during the middle of the day. It should bring in customers, and hopefully they will buy something. On the weekends, It would be available, by purchase with a WEP key. During the weekends when it might be a little busier it will keep out the Wifi squatters and bring offer the net to people who really want and deserve it. I might consider offering a small discount if people agreed NOT to use the Wifi in hopes that it would bring people in to socialize. But...I'm not a business major.. so... what do I know? __________________ "Its better to be hated for who you are, then loved for what your not" --Van Zant "Tell me and I forget. Show me and I remember. Involve me and I learn."

06-03-2005, 08:48 AM	#21 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	right you will vote with your feet and dollars as is expected and the best solution for everyone. the business owner may find out that alienating that portion of his business may be less profitable. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

06-03-2005, 11:29 PM	#24 (permalink)
PulpMind Addict Location: Portland	that is so weird that Victrola made national news (and international - the story also appeared in london), just by turning off the free wifi on the weekends. I live just a few blocks from there, and it seems entirely natural for them to do this, considering the number of leechers that hang out there.

06-03-2005, 11:32 PM	#25 (permalink)
Gilda 32 flavors and then some Location: Out on a wire.	Hmmm. I really don't understand the point of going to a coffee shop for the purpose of reading, studying, or using a computer. I'm a lot more comfortable doing that stuff here at home, where it's nice and quiet, or where I can blast the music without worrying about annoying others (having an empty unit next door is soooo nice). And I don't like coffee, so when I go into a coffee shop, it's to eat. I don't think I'll ever understand the idea of reading/studying in a public place like that, particularly a restaurant; it just doesn't connect in my mind. On to the op. Anyone who sits around, taking up space for 6 hours and not buying anything isn't a customer, and the owners have every right to insist they buy something or leave. This wouldn't even be rude; it's the jerks who take up their space without buying anything who are being rude. The Wi-Fi listed is a free service, as in the people there aren't paying for it. The owners are under no obligation to provide any free service. Complaining about not getting something from a business that you don't pay for in the first place seems petty and inconsiderate to me. __________________ I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that. ~Steven Colbert

06-05-2005, 03:19 PM	#26 (permalink)
Supple Cow Americow, the Beautiful Location: Washington, D.C.	I'm surprised that nobody in here has batted an eye at the assumption that it is better to do this type of activity at home or that if one has a laptop ("can afford one") it must mean that they can also afford internet access. I know I'm not the only college student around here, and I can think of a bunch of reasons for thinking a public place with free wi-fi is infinitely better than whatever "private" setup a student has at "home" (the dorms or some over-crowded shared apartment off campus). Also, not all schools provide free internet. I know that Juilliard students in the dorms have to pay for their internet while my school included it in all the rooms. If I were a student who received a laptop as a present (which is pretty common), I would not have been able to afford internet access in my room unless my school already provided it with the cost of housing and I most certainly would not have wanted to take out an extra $x a month in student loans to make it happen. __________________ "I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. Twenty-six times I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed." (Michael Jordan)

06-06-2005, 05:49 AM	#27 (permalink)
Janey Junkie Location: Toronto	well, it is something that is becomming more common, but still is not a necessity. yes there are those who are more lucky, so to speak, They would be the same ones that had encyclopedias at home and didn't have to go to the library, during a previous generation. If I was a shop owner, I would definitely wnat to craete traffic (that flows) rather than susidize squatters.

06-06-2005, 09:53 AM	#28 (permalink)
dksuddeth Junkie Location: bedford, tx	If I hit the coffee shop, I bring a book to read...unless of course I'm on call =( __________________ "no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."