The Schiavo thing.... - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Liquor Dealer · 03-23-2005, 10:24 AM

The issue of Terri Schiavo is becming very intense in some areas - ran across this in the Daily Dirt and thought it to be appropriate....

Everything below this was blatantly stolen from the Daily Dirt.

GRIM REAPER STEPS INTO GROWING DEBATE

While conducting research for this Special Edition of the Daily Dirt, yer old pal Jerky was fortunate enough to score an exclusive interview with none other than Grim Death, himself. I hope you enjoy reading this interview as much as I enjoyed escaping with my life!

The Daily Dirt: First of all, I want to thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to answer a few questions for us today.

Grim Death: No trouble at all, Jerky. It's my pleasure.

DD: Well, I appreciate it. The first thing I'd like to ask you about is your look. The black cowl, the dimly glowing skull… and that scythe! It all seems designed to invoke maximum terror. Isn't death just a natural part of life?

GD: That's a very good question. Simply put, dwelling on death when one's death is not immanent can prevent people from living a proper life. Therefore, my admittedly unpleasant appearance is, in fact, a form of aversion therapy. Besides, I only appear this way to the living. My clients see me in many different ways. For some, I am a dearly departed loved one. For others, I am the God of their Faith. I have manifested as sensations, voices, and even a reflection of the parting Self. It depends.

DD: So you're a trickster?

GD: Not at all. I don't make the decision as to how I appear. I am merely an usher, escorting my clients through the Veil. What lies beyond is different for everyone, and is of no consequence to me.

DD: So, is there a God?

GD: Next question.

DD: Any comments on the Terri Schiavo case?

GD: Not really. I helped Terri cross over back in early 1990. I deal with souls, not lower brain-stalk functions.

DD: So she's not alive? Then why all the fuss?

GD: That's where things get complicated. As you said earlier, death is a normal part of life. But it is more than that. It is the single, shining moment that lies beyond the realm of mathematics, where the finite plunges into the infinite. It is when all that you have been becomes all that you will ever be. It is the pulling away of the chisel from the stone. For some people, this is not a pleasant process.

DD: Some people?

GD: Well, take those protestors outside the hospice. For most of them, the issue isn't Terri's death, but their own. Death is never easy for fundamentalists. The process is too honest for them. I'm not Santa Claus. If you come to me with a list of expectations -- pearly gates for instance, or a thousand virgins -- you're in for a rude awakening.

DD: Well, I see your publicist is signaling for me to wrap this up, so let's leave it at that. Thank you again for this opportunity, and for all the good work that you do.

GD: It was my pleasure. See you soon!

Thought I'd hang this on the bottom

muttonglutton · 03-23-2005, 11:05 AM

Heh. It actually verges on innofensive! In a very high profile, highly ethical political matter! Well done! :P

Personally, I don't know what to think on the matter. I'm all for the pulling of the plug, I believe that she's already dead, and isn't coming back... but I can understand the position of the government, err on the side that can't be construed as murder.

That's all I got.

Squishor · 03-23-2005, 12:20 PM

I enjoyed the interview with the Grim Reaper, although I almost didn't read it. This case seems to strike a nerve for me, for one thing because I'm about her age so it's easy for me to put myself in her place, and also because I had to make the decision to pull my mother's feeding tube 2 1/2 years ago. I really think they should just let her go. When I realized what sort of quality of life my mother would have if she woke up, I knew without a doubt that the most loving thing (and also the most difficult thing) I could possibly do for her was to give the order to pull the feeding tube and hope she went as quickly as possible. I did it for her, not for me.

Stompy · 03-23-2005, 12:32 PM

The whole thing is stupid.

She's brain dead. She is no longer alive.

What if she was somehow still somewhat conscious in her mind, but unable to voluntarily control her body? She'd probably be on the verge of insanity. I know I'd be pissed if my family fucked around with my life.

It's pointless. Take her off, let her die. She's not coming back... EVER, and nothing will change that.

alec · 03-23-2005, 12:36 PM

im sorry, but who gives a shit? federalism people, im tired of the national government trying to bully around state/local governments. and fuck the grandstanding republicans and all their pretentious christian bull shit.

and on a slightly offensive note, she looks like she should be in my elementary school gym class, drooling on a volley ball in the corner

arch13 · 03-23-2005, 01:25 PM

If your comment is not related to LD's post but instead about the Terri Schiavo case, please make your posts in politics where the thread is at 8pgs and counting.

LD posted an amusing anidote that is commentary on the social aspects of the situation, not the situation itself.

Note: IANAM I am not a moderator

Glory's Sun · 03-23-2005, 01:29 PM

in response to arch13

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=31938

I found the article quite amusing to say the least. Maybe the big wigs need to read this

username · 03-23-2005, 01:30 PM

I find the article quite amusing. I'm glad someone can state how a lot of people feel about the case. I also like the political cartoon as well.

Rodney · 03-23-2005, 04:12 PM

Good post. People need to take a clear look at the issues instead of letting their emotions think for them. This piece kind of reminds me of the character of Death that inhabits many of Terry Pratchett's Discworld books. Most souls he meets have sentimental ideas about what Death is, and he tells them -- hey, it's just a job.

Coppertop · 03-23-2005, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodney

Good post. People need to take a clear look at the issues instead of letting their emotions think for them. This piece kind of reminds me of the character of Death that inhabits many of Terry Pratchett's Discworld books. Most souls he meets have sentimental ideas about what Death is, and he tells them -- hey, it's just a job.

Exactly. I wonder if it was inspired by the Discworld's Death in any fashion?

Cujo · 03-23-2005, 07:09 PM

I'm completely disgusted with this whole situation. This women is dead. She is just a body. There is no Terry Shiavo anymore. The portion of her brain that would make her Terry Shiavo is mush. Let her die. I feel horrible for her family, especially for her poor parents but they have to let her go.

Darkness imprisoning me
All that I see
Absolute horror
I cannot live
I cannot die
Trapped in myself
Body my holding cell

Tophat665 · 03-23-2005, 08:05 PM

This
<img src="http://www-atdp.berkeley.edu/1623/students/kimberly/chewie.jpg">
Is Chewbacca....

If you haven't got a clue what I am talking about, or how it applies, check <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chewbacca_Defense">This</a>.

The fact that there are two threads on this subect in the first page of new posts in a forum largely peopled with highly intelligent and remarkably perceptive people is proof that this strategy is being masterfully employed.

martinguerre · 03-23-2005, 11:38 PM

tophat...when i joined the Mock Trial team, we all were told to go watch that video. my school has sent teams to nationals for about the last ten years. you're right. iit's not just a good laugh...it's seriously effective.

Macheath · 03-24-2005, 01:00 AM

Before I read the article I thought about what it might be about. When I read it I realized that I would have written something similar; something about Death "looking into his old records".

It's Easter. I hope God, if he exists, empties her physical vessel of it's basic functions so she can be pulled down from the cross of public humiliation, the spear of exploitation removed from her side and the media and political vultures blasted to smithereens by lightning bolts, a la the above cartoon.

superiorrain · 03-24-2005, 08:07 AM

Breaking News

Quote:

BBC: Top US court rejects Schiavo plea

The US Supreme Court has refused to intervene in the case of brain-damaged woman Terri Schiavo.

Mrs Schiavo's parents had asked the top US court to order her feeding tube reinserted after it was removed by court order last week.

The Supreme Court has repeatedly refused to rule on the case of Mrs Schiavo, 41, who has been reliant on artificial feeding for 15 years.

Mrs Schiavo's husband wanted her tube removed, saying it was her own wish.

[edit: story is now longer, for those interested click on the link above]

Well this debate is going to keep on running.

Stompy · 03-24-2005, 08:10 AM

I'm so glad this stupid thing is over now. On with life.

Dano069 · 03-24-2005, 09:37 AM

Good article. I like the last cartoon, too bad God really doesn't do that. He needs to clear out a few of the more hypocritcal ones. Hey, does anybody know if those folks protesting outside the hospice have jobs? I mean, are they taking vacation days for all this protesting? What about the kids, shouldn't they be in school? Oh, and good luck feeding her bread and water. What the hell do you think the feeding tube is for, morons?!?!

Oh, and another thing. Are these folks gonna be protesting about how life is so very, Very, VERY precious the next time Florida goes to execute a prisoner? No, I didn't think so either.

Her parents seem pretty selfish too. Let her go already. Please.

skinnymofo · 03-24-2005, 10:24 AM

i think they shouldve given her some lsd or some kind of pyschadelic to see if there is actually anything in there. a response = something is in there somewhere
no response= a dead live person

Stompy · 03-24-2005, 11:17 AM

Images like this make me laugh...

<img src="http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/LAW/03/24/schiavo/top.protester.thurs.ap.jpg"/>

Ooooh okay, so they didn't get their way, therefore "america's law has failed"... haha are these people retarded?

Woo... I don't understand what the hell they are thinking trying to keep a dead person "alive". Look at all the money they are wasting by going through this legal process over something pointless to begin with.

RonRyan85 · 03-24-2005, 02:48 PM

WHAT IS WRONG WITH AMERICA? The Liberal/Left Wing Media
go crazy over capital punishment for convicted criminals: serial killers,rapists and cop killers BUT the
innocent people like Terri Schiavo are being murdered by our Federal judges? Starved to death like some
of the 6 million people exterminated by the NAZIs during World War 2. This is certainly NOT RIGHT!

I feel like all of the Federal Judges appointed by former President Bill Clinton should be removed from
office and allow Terri's Parents to take over the job as her adulter husband and the Hospitals do not want
to continue giving her food and water.

The press and almost ALL of the Democrat Congress is for giving Terri Schiavo DEATH and most of
the Republican Congress is for giving Terri a chance to live. It is too bad that Governor Bush or his
Brother: President George W. Bush will not do more to help. The killers of AMERICAN soldiers
in the prisons in IRAQ get more concern about their treatment than this innocent woman is getting.

Fohur2 · 03-24-2005, 02:57 PM

Wow,a Nazi comparison so early.

jhkayakr · 03-24-2005, 03:00 PM

She is all but dead, poor thing. But what a terrible way to go, dying of starvation. Thats why we need to consider euthanasia on a case by case basis.

pig · 03-24-2005, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonRyan85

WHAT IS WRONG WITH AMERICA? The Liberal/Left Wing Media
go crazy over capital punishment for convicted criminals: serial killers,rapists and cop killers BUT the
innocent people like Terri Schiavo are being murdered by our Federal judges? Starved to death like some
of the 6 million people exterminated by the NAZIs during World War 2. This is certainly NOT RIGHT!

I feel like all of the Federal Judges appointed by former President Bill Clinton should be removed from
office and allow Terri's Parents to take over the job as her adulter husband and the Hospitals do not want
to continue giving her food and water.

The press and almost ALL of the Democrat Congress is for giving Terri Schiavo DEATH and most of
the Republican Congress is for giving Terri a chance to live. It is too bad that Governor Bush or his
Brother: President George W. Bush will not do more to help. The killers of AMERICAN soldiers
in the prisons in IRAQ get more concern about their treatment than this innocent woman is getting.

Dude, I'm so seriously not even touching that with a 20 ft. pole I mean, whoa. Check the other thread in politics on this thing. Them horses have been beat to way beyond a DNR order.

edit PM NCB - y'all can team up on this one.

Stompy · 03-24-2005, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonRyan85

WHAT IS WRONG WITH AMERICA? The Liberal/Left Wing Media
go crazy over capital punishment for convicted criminals: serial killers,rapists and cop killers BUT the
innocent people like Terri Schiavo are being murdered by our Federal judges? Starved to death like some
of the 6 million people exterminated by the NAZIs during World War 2. This is certainly NOT RIGHT!

I feel like all of the Federal Judges appointed by former President Bill Clinton should be removed from
office and allow Terri's Parents to take over the job as her adulter husband and the Hospitals do not want
to continue giving her food and water.

The press and almost ALL of the Democrat Congress is for giving Terri Schiavo DEATH and most of
the Republican Congress is for giving Terri a chance to live. It is too bad that Governor Bush or his
Brother: President George W. Bush will not do more to help. The killers of AMERICAN soldiers
in the prisons in IRAQ get more concern about their treatment than this innocent woman is getting.

Haha dude, she's already dead... she can't live. It's impossible - she's a vegetable. There's no point in keeping her on a feeding tube AT ALL. Keeping her alive is infinitely more cruel than anything else, even shooting her in the head.

Give me ONE good reason why she should remain on the feeding tube.

Another good question is: who is paying for this fiasco? I highly doubt her parents are... what a waste of money and media attention.

[edit]
...and did you hear someone use "liberal/left wing" media, or do you really know what it means? Because uh... haha, media is FARRRR from left wing, bud

MSD · 03-24-2005, 05:28 PM

Attention: This is not the fucking Politics board.

Also, another Wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

0energy0 · 03-24-2005, 06:35 PM

I looked at the Boston Globe today and i saw a picture of a 10 year old with handcuffs on going into a police car. That boy is trying to keep this woman alive, yet he was arrested for going into the hospice and trying to deliver water.

We must know our limits....the difference between a young boy trying to save a life and disobeying the law.

Stompy · 03-24-2005, 06:47 PM

Save what life? She's already dead...

I think people aren't getting the fact she's technically dead. There is not one single reason to keep her alive. We don't have the medical advancements to bring back someone from being brain dead.

What if... she was still technically awake inside her mind? I mean, yeah it might be far fetched at this point, but could you IMAGINE being trapped inside your mind for that long, unable to move, unable to talk... just your thoughts? Ugh, that would be TERRIBLE.

Let her die, seriously. I'm open to differing points of view though, I just have yet to see a compelling argument as to why she should remain on support.

0energy0 · 03-24-2005, 06:53 PM

If the body is still functioning, wouldn't you consider that alive?

EDIT: They (people or whoever determine the definition) should rewrite the definition for technically dead.

Stompy · 03-24-2005, 06:55 PM

Not really, considering she's brain dead.

Haha, it gets crazy when ya start playing with definitions, because then I could say somethin crazy like "well, plants are alive, but there's no laws against killing them."

I mean... yeah, there's no coming back EVER from the state she's in, at least... not anytime soon.

Why keep her alive?

0energy0 · 03-24-2005, 06:58 PM

You can't say "really"... you are either alive or dead. No one knows what is worse, being brain dead or just dead. We haven't experienced it.

They should change the definition for "brain dead" too.

I'm open to opinions too.

skinnymofo · 03-24-2005, 07:08 PM

this whole thing reminds me of that book "Johnny Got His Gun" or ifyouve seen the metallica video for One its the same thing basically.

Stompy · 03-24-2005, 08:05 PM

"Not really" meaning, yes, she's dead, but her body is "technically" alive, if you choose to play with definitions.

No one has been there, but really, again, I ask... what's the point of keeping her alive?

squeamish · 03-24-2005, 08:42 PM

where dothe christ crazies think they are going? Maybe god can filter the simple fuckers of the planet.

pig · 03-25-2005, 06:44 AM

Ok, I'm staying away from political ramificaitons on this, but I would have to say that it would appear that Stompy and 0energy0 are involved in game of semantics. Simple, I think. Adopt a definition, then stick to it. If by alive you mean simply that the molecules / some of the organs in her body (a body) are doing some functional cellular / organic things, then yes - the body is alive. If you mean alive in the sense of human consciousness that we claim separates man from say, a cucumber, then I would say that's a different question. Thus, I would have to ask if I should feel badly if some of my semen gets deposited on a Kleenex (TM) and thrown in the trash. Those things are sort of alive too. etc. This issue can get mildly interesting sort of quickly.

Stompy · 03-25-2005, 08:52 AM

Definitions are... blah.

I mean, we all know what "dead" is.

I think we can all agree that she's brain dead, and she is NOT coming back from that state... therefore, semantics aside of "well, technically she's still alive, her heart is beating!", she's... well, dead.

As for the whole thing, you can't really kill someone who's already dead. I think it's ridiculous in the sense that they are delaying the inevitable for no apparent reason just to say, "because we can." I'm REALLY searching for an answer to the question: Why?

Why should she be kept alive?

It's unfair to the girl in question, especially if her husband wants her to go peacefully.

Glory's Sun · 03-25-2005, 09:00 AM

Why is this thread still open? This thread has been jacked for days. There is a thread on the legal and political issues of the matter. Use it

pig · 03-25-2005, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guccilvr

Why is this thread still open? This thread has been jacked for days. There is a thread on the legal and political issues of the matter. Use it

I was kind of hoping to move to a semantic discussion, or more properly a discussion of semantics, but I don't think that's going to fly. Well, shit - C'est la Vie.

/robbie nevil sucks ass

Glory's Sun · 03-25-2005, 09:10 AM

IMO (and it's very humble also) is that the semantics of this are also on the legal line. But I'm not really a semantics guy so I wouldn't know. I'm just pointing out that the thread was on the social issues not the political. LD can verify that if he chooses. I'm not trying to offend anyone, andI'm not a mod so I don't really have much say about the issue. Let's just keep things in their place

Liquor Dealer · 03-25-2005, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guccilvr

IMO (and it's very humble also) is that the semantics of this are also on the legal line. But I'm not really a semantics guy so I wouldn't know. I'm just pointing out that the thread was on the social issues not the political. LD can verify that if he chooses. I'm not trying to offend anyone, andI'm not a mod so I don't really have much say about the issue. Let's just keep things in their place

The only reason I placed this on this forum was in hope that it would be dealt with in a more intelligent manner that that of the Politics Board. I learned long ago to not ever to read or post on the Politics Board. I was a "Super Moderator" prior to my last excursion in that area. The whole damned thing is hypocrisy. It has been played out to it's headline grabbing limits and then some. Once more, I'm gonna hang this cartoon on the bottom - then I'm gonna' leave it alone.

pig · 03-25-2005, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guccilvr

IMO (and it's very humble also) is that the semantics of this are also on the legal line. But I'm not really a semantics guy so I wouldn't know. I'm just pointing out that the thread was on the social issues not the political. LD can verify that if he chooses. I'm not trying to offend anyone, andI'm not a mod so I don't really have much say about the issue. Let's just keep things in their place

oh no, i wanted to move this thing completely away from the issue of the schiano lady and get it onto a question of the meaning of words, or i can play with the concept of hypocracy of religious extremists as well, if LD was intending to take the thread that way. As far as the discussion in Politics goes, yeah - it's been a little redundant at times (frequently) but there are some interesting people over there, and I've gained access to some information I wouldn't have sought out myself. I just wish the redundant aspects of the argument could be dealth with in the first 5-10 posts, everyone would actually read those posts, and then assume them and their contents to be common knowledge. If you you've got something new to say, then cool. If not, I mean - why post? whatever, not really important.

03-23-2005, 10:24 AM	#1 (permalink)
Liquor Dealer Super Agitator Location: Just SW of Nowhere!!! In the good old US of A	The Schiavo thing.... The issue of Terri Schiavo is becming very intense in some areas - ran across this in the Daily Dirt and thought it to be appropriate.... Everything below this was blatantly stolen from the Daily Dirt. GRIM REAPER STEPS INTO GROWING DEBATE While conducting research for this Special Edition of the Daily Dirt, yer old pal Jerky was fortunate enough to score an exclusive interview with none other than Grim Death, himself. I hope you enjoy reading this interview as much as I enjoyed escaping with my life! The Daily Dirt: First of all, I want to thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to answer a few questions for us today. Grim Death: No trouble at all, Jerky. It's my pleasure. DD: Well, I appreciate it. The first thing I'd like to ask you about is your look. The black cowl, the dimly glowing skull… and that scythe! It all seems designed to invoke maximum terror. Isn't death just a natural part of life? GD: That's a very good question. Simply put, dwelling on death when one's death is not immanent can prevent people from living a proper life. Therefore, my admittedly unpleasant appearance is, in fact, a form of aversion therapy. Besides, I only appear this way to the living. My clients see me in many different ways. For some, I am a dearly departed loved one. For others, I am the God of their Faith. I have manifested as sensations, voices, and even a reflection of the parting Self. It depends. DD: So you're a trickster? GD: Not at all. I don't make the decision as to how I appear. I am merely an usher, escorting my clients through the Veil. What lies beyond is different for everyone, and is of no consequence to me. DD: So, is there a God? GD: Next question. DD: Any comments on the Terri Schiavo case? GD: Not really. I helped Terri cross over back in early 1990. I deal with souls, not lower brain-stalk functions. DD: So she's not alive? Then why all the fuss? GD: That's where things get complicated. As you said earlier, death is a normal part of life. But it is more than that. It is the single, shining moment that lies beyond the realm of mathematics, where the finite plunges into the infinite. It is when all that you have been becomes all that you will ever be. It is the pulling away of the chisel from the stone. For some people, this is not a pleasant process. DD: Some people? GD: Well, take those protestors outside the hospice. For most of them, the issue isn't Terri's death, but their own. Death is never easy for fundamentalists. The process is too honest for them. I'm not Santa Claus. If you come to me with a list of expectations -- pearly gates for instance, or a thousand virgins -- you're in for a rude awakening. DD: Well, I see your publicist is signaling for me to wrap this up, so let's leave it at that. Thank you again for this opportunity, and for all the good work that you do. GD: It was my pleasure. See you soon! Thought I'd hang this on the bottom __________________ Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!! Last edited by Liquor Dealer; 03-23-2005 at 10:59 AM..

03-23-2005, 11:05 AM	#2 (permalink)
muttonglutton Crazy Location: K-W. Err... -dot.	Heh. It actually verges on innofensive! In a very high profile, highly ethical political matter! Well done! :P Personally, I don't know what to think on the matter. I'm all for the pulling of the plug, I believe that she's already dead, and isn't coming back... but I can understand the position of the government, err on the side that can't be construed as murder. That's all I got. __________________ Cellar Door.

03-23-2005, 12:32 PM	#4 (permalink)
Stompy Banned from being Banned Location: Donkey	The whole thing is stupid. She's brain dead. She is no longer alive. What if she was somehow still somewhat conscious in her mind, but unable to voluntarily control her body? She'd probably be on the verge of insanity. I know I'd be pissed if my family fucked around with my life. It's pointless. Take her off, let her die. She's not coming back... EVER, and nothing will change that. __________________ I love lamp.

03-23-2005, 01:25 PM	#6 (permalink)
arch13 Loves my girl in thongs Location: North of Mexico, South of Canada	If your comment is not related to LD's post but instead about the Terri Schiavo case, please make your posts in politics where the thread is at 8pgs and counting. LD posted an amusing anidote that is commentary on the social aspects of the situation, not the situation itself. Note: IANAM I am not a moderator __________________ Seen on an employer evaluation: "The wheel is turning but the hamsters dead" ____________________________ Is arch13 really a porn diety ? find out after the film at 11. -Nanofever

03-23-2005, 01:30 PM	#8 (permalink)
username Insane	I find the article quite amusing. I'm glad someone can state how a lot of people feel about the case. I also like the political cartoon as well. Last edited by username; 03-23-2005 at 01:32 PM..

03-23-2005, 12:20 PM	#3 (permalink)
Squishor Frontal Lobe Location: California	I enjoyed the interview with the Grim Reaper, although I almost didn't read it. This case seems to strike a nerve for me, for one thing because I'm about her age so it's easy for me to put myself in her place, and also because I had to make the decision to pull my mother's feeding tube 2 1/2 years ago. I really think they should just let her go. When I realized what sort of quality of life my mother would have if she woke up, I knew without a doubt that the most loving thing (and also the most difficult thing) I could possibly do for her was to give the order to pull the feeding tube and hope she went as quickly as possible. I did it for her, not for me.

03-23-2005, 12:36 PM	#5 (permalink)
alec Insane Location: Washington DC	im sorry, but who gives a shit? federalism people, im tired of the national government trying to bully around state/local governments. and fuck the grandstanding republicans and all their pretentious christian bull shit. and on a slightly offensive note, she looks like she should be in my elementary school gym class, drooling on a volley ball in the corner

03-23-2005, 01:29 PM	#7 (permalink)
Glory's Sun Registered User	in response to arch13 http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=31938 I found the article quite amusing to say the least. Maybe the big wigs need to read this

03-23-2005, 04:12 PM	#9 (permalink)
Rodney Observant Ruminant Location: Rich Wannabe Hippie Town	Good post. People need to take a clear look at the issues instead of letting their emotions think for them. This piece kind of reminds me of the character of Death that inhabits many of Terry Pratchett's Discworld books. Most souls he meets have sentimental ideas about what Death is, and he tells them -- hey, it's just a job.

03-23-2005, 07:09 PM	#11 (permalink)
Cujo Crazy Location: Ontari-ari-ari-O, Canada EH!	I'm completely disgusted with this whole situation. This women is dead. She is just a body. There is no Terry Shiavo anymore. The portion of her brain that would make her Terry Shiavo is mush. Let her die. I feel horrible for her family, especially for her poor parents but they have to let her go. Darkness imprisoning me All that I see Absolute horror I cannot live I cannot die Trapped in myself Body my holding cell

03-23-2005, 08:05 PM	#12 (permalink)
Tophat665 Minion of the scaléd ones Location: Northeast Jesusland	This <img src="http://www-atdp.berkeley.edu/1623/students/kimberly/chewie.jpg"> Is Chewbacca.... If you haven't got a clue what I am talking about, or how it applies, check <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chewbacca_Defense">This</a>. The fact that there are two threads on this subect in the first page of new posts in a forum largely peopled with highly intelligent and remarkably perceptive people is proof that this strategy is being masterfully employed. __________________ Light a man a fire, and he will be warm while it burns. Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

03-23-2005, 11:38 PM	#13 (permalink)
martinguerre whosoever Location: New England	tophat...when i joined the Mock Trial team, we all were told to go watch that video. my school has sent teams to nationals for about the last ten years. you're right. iit's not just a good laugh...it's seriously effective. __________________ For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life. -John 3:16

03-24-2005, 01:00 AM	#14 (permalink)
Macheath Junkie Location: Sydney, Australia	Before I read the article I thought about what it might be about. When I read it I realized that I would have written something similar; something about Death "looking into his old records". It's Easter. I hope God, if he exists, empties her physical vessel of it's basic functions so she can be pulled down from the cross of public humiliation, the spear of exploitation removed from her side and the media and political vultures blasted to smithereens by lightning bolts, a la the above cartoon.

03-24-2005, 08:10 AM	#16 (permalink)
Stompy Banned from being Banned Location: Donkey	I'm so glad this stupid thing is over now. On with life. __________________ I love lamp.

03-24-2005, 09:37 AM	#17 (permalink)
Dano069 is Nucking Futs! Location: On the edge of sanity	Good article. I like the last cartoon, too bad God really doesn't do that. He needs to clear out a few of the more hypocritcal ones. Hey, does anybody know if those folks protesting outside the hospice have jobs? I mean, are they taking vacation days for all this protesting? What about the kids, shouldn't they be in school? Oh, and good luck feeding her bread and water. What the hell do you think the feeding tube is for, morons?!?! Oh, and another thing. Are these folks gonna be protesting about how life is so very, Very, VERY precious the next time Florida goes to execute a prisoner? No, I didn't think so either. Her parents seem pretty selfish too. Let her go already. Please. __________________ I may look attentive, but I'm taking peeks down your blouse faster than the human eye can follow.

03-24-2005, 10:24 AM	#18 (permalink)
skinnymofo Addict ed to smack Location: Seattle	i think they shouldve given her some lsd or some kind of pyschadelic to see if there is actually anything in there. a response = something is in there somewhere no response= a dead live person

03-24-2005, 11:17 AM	#19 (permalink)
Stompy Banned from being Banned Location: Donkey	Images like this make me laugh... <img src="http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/LAW/03/24/schiavo/top.protester.thurs.ap.jpg"/> Ooooh okay, so they didn't get their way, therefore "america's law has failed"... haha are these people retarded? Woo... I don't understand what the hell they are thinking trying to keep a dead person "alive". Look at all the money they are wasting by going through this legal process over something pointless to begin with. __________________ I love lamp.

03-24-2005, 02:48 PM	#20 (permalink)
RonRyan85 Insane Location: Lone Star State,USA	WHAT IS WRONG WITH AMERICA? The Liberal/Left Wing Media go crazy over capital punishment for convicted criminals: serial killers,rapists and cop killers BUT the innocent people like Terri Schiavo are being murdered by our Federal judges? Starved to death like some of the 6 million people exterminated by the NAZIs during World War 2. This is certainly NOT RIGHT! I feel like all of the Federal Judges appointed by former President Bill Clinton should be removed from office and allow Terri's Parents to take over the job as her adulter husband and the Hospitals do not want to continue giving her food and water. The press and almost ALL of the Democrat Congress is for giving Terri Schiavo DEATH and most of the Republican Congress is for giving Terri a chance to live. It is too bad that Governor Bush or his Brother: President George W. Bush will not do more to help. The killers of AMERICAN soldiers in the prisons in IRAQ get more concern about their treatment than this innocent woman is getting.

03-24-2005, 02:57 PM	#21 (permalink)
Fohur2 Crazy	Wow,a Nazi comparison so early.

03-24-2005, 03:00 PM	#22 (permalink)
jhkayakr Insane Location: under the skirt	She is all but dead, poor thing. But what a terrible way to go, dying of starvation. Thats why we need to consider euthanasia on a case by case basis. __________________ ........gotta need for speed....

03-24-2005, 05:28 PM	#25 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	Attention: This is not the fucking Politics board. Also, another Wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

03-24-2005, 06:35 PM	#26 (permalink)
0energy0 Insane Location: Title Town, USA	I looked at the Boston Globe today and i saw a picture of a 10 year old with handcuffs on going into a police car. That boy is trying to keep this woman alive, yet he was arrested for going into the hospice and trying to deliver water. We must know our limits....the difference between a young boy trying to save a life and disobeying the law. __________________ Is the juice worth the squeeze?

03-24-2005, 06:47 PM	#27 (permalink)
Stompy Banned from being Banned Location: Donkey	Save what life? She's already dead... I think people aren't getting the fact she's technically dead. There is not one single reason to keep her alive. We don't have the medical advancements to bring back someone from being brain dead. What if... she was still technically awake inside her mind? I mean, yeah it might be far fetched at this point, but could you IMAGINE being trapped inside your mind for that long, unable to move, unable to talk... just your thoughts? Ugh, that would be TERRIBLE. Let her die, seriously. I'm open to differing points of view though, I just have yet to see a compelling argument as to why she should remain on support. __________________ I love lamp.

03-24-2005, 06:53 PM	#28 (permalink)
0energy0 Insane Location: Title Town, USA	If the body is still functioning, wouldn't you consider that alive? EDIT: They (people or whoever determine the definition) should rewrite the definition for technically dead. __________________ Is the juice worth the squeeze?

03-24-2005, 06:55 PM	#29 (permalink)
Stompy Banned from being Banned Location: Donkey	Not really, considering she's brain dead. Haha, it gets crazy when ya start playing with definitions, because then I could say somethin crazy like "well, plants are alive, but there's no laws against killing them." I mean... yeah, there's no coming back EVER from the state she's in, at least... not anytime soon. Why keep her alive? __________________ I love lamp.

03-24-2005, 06:58 PM	#30 (permalink)
0energy0 Insane Location: Title Town, USA	You can't say "really"... you are either alive or dead. No one knows what is worse, being brain dead or just dead. We haven't experienced it. They should change the definition for "brain dead" too. I'm open to opinions too. __________________ Is the juice worth the squeeze?

03-24-2005, 07:08 PM	#31 (permalink)
skinnymofo Addict ed to smack Location: Seattle	this whole thing reminds me of that book "Johnny Got His Gun" or ifyouve seen the metallica video for One its the same thing basically.

03-24-2005, 08:05 PM	#32 (permalink)
Stompy Banned from being Banned Location: Donkey	"Not really" meaning, yes, she's dead, but her body is "technically" alive, if you choose to play with definitions. No one has been there, but really, again, I ask... what's the point of keeping her alive? __________________ I love lamp.

03-24-2005, 08:42 PM	#33 (permalink)
squeamish Upright	where dothe christ crazies think they are going? Maybe god can filter the simple fuckers of the planet.

03-25-2005, 06:44 AM	#34 (permalink)
pig pigglet pigglet Location: Locash	Ok, I'm staying away from political ramificaitons on this, but I would have to say that it would appear that Stompy and 0energy0 are involved in game of semantics. Simple, I think. Adopt a definition, then stick to it. If by alive you mean simply that the molecules / some of the organs in her body (a body) are doing some functional cellular / organic things, then yes - the body is alive. If you mean alive in the sense of human consciousness that we claim separates man from say, a cucumber, then I would say that's a different question. Thus, I would have to ask if I should feel badly if some of my semen gets deposited on a Kleenex (TM) and thrown in the trash. Those things are sort of alive too. etc. This issue can get mildly interesting sort of quickly. __________________ You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

03-25-2005, 08:52 AM	#35 (permalink)
Stompy Banned from being Banned Location: Donkey	Definitions are... blah. I mean, we all know what "dead" is. I think we can all agree that she's brain dead, and she is NOT coming back from that state... therefore, semantics aside of "well, technically she's still alive, her heart is beating!", she's... well, dead. As for the whole thing, you can't really kill someone who's already dead. I think it's ridiculous in the sense that they are delaying the inevitable for no apparent reason just to say, "because we can." I'm REALLY searching for an answer to the question: Why? Why should she be kept alive? It's unfair to the girl in question, especially if her husband wants her to go peacefully. __________________ I love lamp. Last edited by Stompy; 03-25-2005 at 08:55 AM..

03-25-2005, 09:00 AM	#36 (permalink)
Glory's Sun Registered User	Why is this thread still open? This thread has been jacked for days. There is a thread on the legal and political issues of the matter. Use it

03-25-2005, 09:10 AM	#38 (permalink)
Glory's Sun Registered User	IMO (and it's very humble also) is that the semantics of this are also on the legal line. But I'm not really a semantics guy so I wouldn't know. I'm just pointing out that the thread was on the social issues not the political. LD can verify that if he chooses. I'm not trying to offend anyone, andI'm not a mod so I don't really have much say about the issue. Let's just keep things in their place