Almost Beaten To Death Over Pizza (video included) - Page 5 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Brooke · 03-05-2005, 11:27 AM

My two cents isnt much. If I were a bystander, I would have called the cops, but not intervened. I am no big enough to do anything and would have gotten myself hurt. But three or four of those bystanders in the video could have done somehting collectivly. I suppose it takes a plane being hijacked on 9-11 before people will get up and unite to do that thou, or maybe pizza is just THAT important.

Strange Famous · 03-05-2005, 01:31 PM

ok, Im a little embarassed... cos I only just watched the video. The first shot the black guy threw was big... but... in that situation, after watching the video, I wouldnt have felt afraid to step in. I mean, I dunno... but Im pretty sure... that guy wasnt that tough, yiou know? I can understand the logic of standing by and not doing anything... but when he went after the guy when he was down... that would probably be the point I'd do something. From people's comments I mayve over-estimated what would be done,,, I dont think absolute force would be needed in this situation, if someone had had just grabbed the big guy and thrown him on the floor it would have been over.

Strange Famous · 03-05-2005, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IC3

That sucks.

Whatd'ya call the thing you roll the pizza dough with?

That would have connected good into the back of that monsters head..I was kinda wondering too why everybody just kinda stood thier as if nothing happened. I wouldn't try to play hero myself, But if that whatchyamacallit was in sight one good swing and that fucker would drop or i would hope so anyways.

There was enough guys to take that guy down easy..

if the guy who was attacked was a fighter, he would have just stepped inside of every one of those haymakers and uppercut, butt, bite, hook to the body... the black guy was strong, but had no technique... and the victim just got beat up... I mean, he wanst expected it, and the first punch rocked him and after that he was just getting beat down... you dont try and manhandle a guy that size, you just unload with all your strength inside his swings... the guy who got beat down wasnt a fighter... but there were about 5 people standing there not doing shit. When it was first described I thought the attack might have been so violent there was no choice,,,, but after watching the video, definitely somebody should have ended it after the second cheap shot

0energy0 · 03-06-2005, 07:32 PM

over pizza? seriously...

and i hate people like that. someone is going to have their bottom whipped.

raeanna74 · 03-07-2005, 01:57 PM

I just wonder if someone HAD stepped in if that guy would have laid off. I mean their silence in a sense showed him that he had all the POWER in that establishment. No one was going to stop him or tell him he was wrong. They said so by doing nothing. They in a sense gave him approval by allowing him to continue. They were all afraid. He could do anything at all that he pleased.

I HAVE stepped into a somewhat similar situation. Between a guy not quite has heavy but just as tall who was attacking another man who was somewhat smaller but not a wimp in the least. I simply grabbed the man's collar, looked him in the guy from almost a foot below his eye level (

), and said low and quietly "Don't you dare. Back off." The situation diffused. That made the number two against one. Albeit one (5'5" 130 lb) woman and one somewhat smaller man against the attacker. The point was he lost the "power" in the situation. No one was GIVING him power by being afraid and no one was going to allow him to continue without at least some injury.

I really doubt that the attacked man (I don't like the term victim) would have suffered quite as seriously if someone had grabbed a rolling pin, ran up between them and said "STOP and LEAVE now or else." Don't make any promises like "You'll loose your hand." Simply say "or else" - simple psychology will cause their imagination to come up with worse punishments that even you may believe yourself capable of. That can sometimes be sufficient deterent. I'd take one hit physically to ensure that I knew that I'd done what I could to stall the confrontation.

tspikes51 · 03-07-2005, 08:15 PM

This is the kind of thing that makes me want to lift weights more often. I'm glad that I'm a decent size (6'1", 245 lbs), and have a sense of justice and a feeling of obligation to help people when they need it.

Ambition · 03-08-2005, 05:10 PM

Words cannot describe the disgust I felt watching that video. I don't even want to get started on what I think. But it's a grim reminder of how screwed up the legal system is in the greatest country in the world.

sob · 03-12-2005, 10:52 AM

I'm about to demonstrate why I picked the username "sob."

I have been involved in a couple of situations like this. The last one was three or four months ago when some wacko started abusing a young mother in line at McDonald's because her kid was crying.

In each instance of such an event that I have seen, every person around seemed to want to look the other way. This whole thread full of people who "would have done something" very much smells to me like a collection of the usual personalities who are very brave as long as they're at a keyboard. Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings, but my experience is that in a random group of people, you're lucky to have ONE person willing to get involved, and in this thread we have lots of people who supposedly would have entered the fray with flying fists of fury.

That's not necessarily bad--not even the Navy SEALS I know are anxious to mix it up with someone who might be packing. It just bugs the hell out of me that some people who claim to be pro-active are gun-control proponents.

That's why Lebell hit it on the head. Your best defense if you're the victim here is to be carrying, unless you've already had a few years of martial arts training. That's also why politicians like Diane Feinstein suck, because they think they're reducing crime by making a CC permit impossible to get in California.

Any witness not willing to carry should be on the cell phone calling the cops, but that isn't going to help you if you're the one getting the crap beat out of you. Wouldn't you be very anxious for an honest person in line to have a pistol, and know how to use it?

Remember that the next time a gun-control politician is running for office.

sob · 03-12-2005, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

if the guy who was attacked was a fighter, he would have just stepped inside of every one of those haymakers and uppercut, butt, bite, hook to the body... the black guy was strong, but had no technique... and the victim just got beat up... I mean, he wanst expected it, and the first punch rocked him and after that he was just getting beat down... you dont try and manhandle a guy that size, you just unload with all your strength inside his swings... the guy who got beat down wasnt a fighter... but there were about 5 people standing there not doing shit. When it was first described I thought the attack might have been so violent there was no choice,,,, but after watching the video, definitely somebody should have ended it after the second cheap shot

Dead on. I know some guys (and girls) who barely top five feet that would have separated the attacker from his consciousness within ten seconds. With training, anybody can easily break ribs and do a variety of damage, so it boils down to who is faster, and lands the first blow. That guy was a slug, and would have been easy to hit.

Which is why I can assure you that I wouldn't have waited for him to hit me.

sob · 03-12-2005, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dksuddeth

if you are licensed, then you've been trained. In the episode thats posted, almost no prosecutor or grand jury is going to indict you based on self defense laws. and a civil suit? never happen.

Happens all the time. That's why if you disable the attacker, you want to get the hell out and hope your face doesn't show on the video.

Otherwise, Mr. Nice Guy, the attacker, is going to sue you. Even if he doesn't win, you get to pay a lawyer.

sob · 03-12-2005, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master_Shake

He's just a savage animal, huh?

Is it really so impossible to have seen yourself in that guy's position?

Consider you're an ex-con, so you can't get a real job anywhere. You're working for shit, and you see that fancy cell phone with a camera in it which you can't pass the credit check to get.

Your woman has been in a bad mood all day long and now she starts screaming that some guy is insulting her. You see this guy yelling at her, who may have been using racial slurs (which if you're a white guy, being called a cracker is not similar. Imagine if somebody was calling your wife a cunt. That's probably as close as you can get).

You wouldn't have stood up to somebody calling your wife a CUNT?

So he's pissed and he overreacts. Now he's going back to prison for four years. When he gets out, he's got zero chance at getting a real job in the future. What the hell else is he going to do?

Hopefully, die of AIDS he acquired in an anal rape in prison. This kind of vermin is only going to prey on others until he's dead.

But your fantasy of how his parents' cruel potty training made him this way is noted.

sob · 03-12-2005, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDDDave

My wife has been a police officer for 15 years. She was a beat officer and worked her way up to Lieutentant. She has a bachelors and masters in Criminal Justice. We watched the video and discussed it.

Here is her take: Four years is a pretty stiff sentence for what is basically beating someone up. The strong sentence probably had more to do with his prior record. He could have been on probation. Just getting arrested on probation is a felony. All of that stuff leading up to the first punch is really immaterial. He said, she said. In Florida, threatening someone with the capacity to carry out the threat, is a misdemeanor. Punching someone, wherever, is a misdeameanor. Punching him again and again is a misdemeanor. Causing great bodily harm, which is defined as near life threatening injuries (which the guy did not have) is a felony. Usually the standard for GBH is disfigurement. He didn't have a weapon. He tried to lift the guy up to hit him, but he didn't stomp his face into the ground. People get in fights everyday and the guy that won doesn't usually get four years. I doesn't matter legally, but we didn't see it as a sucker punch either. He was facing him. If you're gonna get in someone's face you better be prepared for what might happen.

Re: a gun. If the guy who was getting beat up had a gun, would he have been justified in shooting the guy dead? By statute, he would have had to feel that he was going to die in order to be justified in killing someone. Obviously a jury would ultimately have to make the decision according to evidence presented but I could make a case that getting punched 5 or 6 times, when maybe you deserved it after insulting a guy, does not give you the right to shoot him. If you were one of the other customers, there is no way you could even be justified in pulling your gun in that situation.

I'll reserve the social commentary as to how our society deals with these guys but I am glad that I won't be seeing this guy in any pizza places for the next four years or so.

Cops learn how to diffuse situations like this too. I said 'what would you have done if you were there off duty?'. She said try to distract the guy. You have no legal standing in trying to break up the fight. You could get beat up just as easily. Maybe holler "Hey man, here come the cops!" . It really comes down to if you want to or not. It's not like the guy is your brother. He wasn't going to die, he was just getting his butt kicked.

While the last idea about saying the cops are coming is good, the rest of your post is truly frightening. I've seen people who got punched this way and died, or were never able to work again. Sounds like someone has to suffer permanent damage before your wife even cares. Would it be okay for a perp to shoot one of her beat cops, as long as the damage wasn't permanent?

If this is truly the way your wife feels, I'm glad I don't depend on her department for protection. I'm also glad my taxes aren't wasted on her pay.

Strange Famous · 03-12-2005, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sob

I'm about to demonstrate why I picked the username "sob."

I have been involved in a couple of situations like this. The last one was three or four months ago when some wacko started abusing a young mother in line at McDonald's because her kid was crying.

In each instance of such an event that I have seen, every person around seemed to want to look the other way. This whole thread full of people who "would have done something" very much smells to me like a collection of the usual personalities who are very brave as long as they're at a keyboard. Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings, but my experience is that in a random group of people, you're lucky to have ONE person willing to get involved, and in this thread we have lots of people who supposedly would have entered the fray with flying fists of fury.

That's not necessarily bad--not even the Navy SEALS I know are anxious to mix it up with someone who might be packing. It just bugs the hell out of me that some people who claim to be pro-active are gun-control proponents.

That's why Lebell hit it on the head. Your best defense if you're the victim here is to be carrying, unless you've already had a few years of martial arts training. That's also why politicians like Diane Feinstein suck, because they think they're reducing crime by making a CC permit impossible to get in California.

Any witness not willing to carry should be on the cell phone calling the cops, but that isn't going to help you if you're the one getting the crap beat out of you. Wouldn't you be very anxious for an honest person in line to have a pistol, and know how to use it?

Remember that the next time a gun-control politician is running for office.

how on earth does a thread about violence prompt someone to see it is a strong argument for making sure as many people as possible carry weapons of lethal force?

If you you had less gun control, the black guy walks in and shoots the other guy... and the thread is called "murdered over a pizza" and you drop the "almost" as I see it.

And I have stepped into a situation, personally, kind of anyway.

About two years ago, I was letting myself into my house, as was the guy who lived opposite, and this other guy was coming up the street, and he was SCREAMING at this girl (who looked completely coked out and wa snot even registering the guy)... both me and my neighbour stopped and stared at the scene... the guy turned didnt hit the girl but he was really yelling at her, grabbing her coat, and she was just out of it... then he span round and yelled at me and the neighbour "what the fuck you looking at???"

The neighbour ran inside his house, and I kind of froze up, and was pretty scared... then the guy started coming towards me... he was a pretty big guy, about my weight, but a big body builder type... I remember just thinking "right then you c***", stepped into my house, and I had my golf clubs inside the door, grabbed the first iron I found, came out again with it swung back, and I just started visualized crashing it right into this gusy knee cap full swing... and he just sort of looked at me, crossed the road, and started walking away (in the opposite direction he came and away from the girl, who still didnt know what was going on I think)

Anyway, I dont know what that proves... I didnt step in when he was yellihg at the girl, and from a macho perspective, it doesnt say much... only a lunatic would attack someone who has a golf club when you have bare hands... but from a personal perspective, I have to say when I felt he was threatening the girl I didnt do shit, I was just frozen and uncertain... only when I felt I was under threat did i start to feel anger and aggression build in me. Its easy to be a by stander

I think, I would like to think, in that pizza shop, I would have stepped in at some point, when the guy was down and he tried to grab him, prolly then... the big guy couldnt fight anyway... but its all about logic vs heart. The logic part is saying "protect yourelf" the heart part is saying "tear this mf apart" and when fear sits on the side of logic... And anyone in a voilent situation has a sense of fear unless they are crazy (Ive known one person in my life who never got scared at all) ... its easy to be a passer by. And whether it sounds unmacho or not, I'll admit that.

I'd like to think I wouldnt stand by, if it was a man having a go at a woman I would more than like to think I wouldnt, but I dont know. I have got beat up before sticking up for a girl... in a bar one time this guy was hitting on a girl I worked with and she was trung to get away and he was sort of trapping her in a corner, so I just kind of came up and threw him over a table and chairs, and one of his friends came up and hit me 3 or 4 times and I maybe landed one half shot back before the bouncers pulled him off... and its amazing how once you are in THAT situation you feel like knocking out about anyone, once you are apart and hurt but not HURT...

I guess people will be brave at different times, anyway.

sob · 03-12-2005, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flstf

It looks like releasing the video to the news media has caused the Akron prosecutors to take back their plea agreement and go for more jail time for the mad woman.

Quote:

Madison filed a motion Thursday asking Judge Brenda Burnham Unruh to dismiss Sims' case, citing the previous plea and claiming the new charges violate double jeopardy protections.

``What we have here is a person who had accepted responsibility now finding herself facing punishment a second time,'' Madison said. ``What I'm doing now, I'm asking the court to dismiss it because of constitutional issues that the state has acted in bad faith. We believe a case brought with an evil eye should not see its day in court. Ultimately, a deal is a deal.''

So file federal hate crime charges to get around double jeopardy, like they did with the Rodney King cops.

sob · 03-12-2005, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDDDave

I'm just posing another side to the story.

Yes, I have gotten punched in the head. It is completely disorienting and it is difficult if not impossible to stand back up and fight. I am not arguing that. You're 'eyes' comment is appropriate too. If you are going to get up in the chicks face and argue with her you better be prepared to look her boyfriend in the eye when he arrives. If I think he might hit me, I'm not going to look away and give him the chance to blind side me. The guy was 28, 6'2 225. Not some scrawny little kid or feeble old man. Why didn't he just fall to the ground and stay there? He just kind of bends over and continues to get hit. Whatever happened to falling to the ground and covering up? I am not defending anyone's actions here. It's all monday morning quarterbacking now.

Yeah, why didn't the victim just drop his pants and ask to get anally raped?

That would have defused the situation.

sob · 03-12-2005, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raeanna74

All I can say is
A broken nose - when the bone is broken properly and shoved forward and up it can be used to kill a person.

This is a myth, but I agree with the rest of your post.

sob · 03-12-2005, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

how on earth does a thread about violence prompt someone to see it is a strong argument for making sure as many people as possible carry weapons of lethal force?

If you you had less gun control, the black guy walks in and shoots the other guy... and the thread is called "murdered over a pizza" and you drop the "almost" as I see it.

In states that have reasonable CC laws, crime drops. I can provide a great many studies to verify this. Or you can look them up yourself.

The surprising thing in this case is that Mr. Attacker didn't already have a gun. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the impression you think the only reason this human excrement didn't have a gun is because he didn't want to break the law. I disagree.

Flstf's assertion that cops show up afterward, and you're responsible for defending yourself, is hugely accurate. Established case law clearly specifies that the police are under no obligation to protect you. This is also backed up by the post in which the wife/cop says they usually let people quit fighting before they do anything.

Quote:

And I have stepped into a situation, personally, kind of anyway.

About two years ago, I was letting myself into my house, as was the guy who lived opposite, and this other guy was coming up the street, and he was SCREAMING at this girl (who looked completely coked out and wa snot even registering the guy)... both me and my neighbour stopped and stared at the scene... the guy turned didnt hit the girl but he was really yelling at her, grabbing her coat, and she was just out of it... then he span round and yelled at me and the neighbour "what the fuck you looking at???"

The neighbour ran inside his house, and I kind of froze up, and was pretty scared... then the guy started coming towards me... he was a pretty big guy, about my weight, but a big body builder type... I remember just thinking "right then you c***", stepped into my house, and I had my golf clubs inside the door, grabbed the first iron I found, came out again with it swung back, and I just started visualized crashing it right into this gusy knee cap full swing... and he just sort of looked at me, crossed the road, and started walking away (in the opposite direction he came and away from the girl, who still didnt know what was going on I think)

Anyway, I dont know what that proves... I didnt step in when he was yellihg at the girl, and from a macho perspective, it doesnt say much... only a lunatic would attack someone who has a golf club when you have bare hands... but from a personal perspective, I have to say when I felt he was threatening the girl I didnt do shit, I was just frozen and uncertain... only when I felt I was under threat did i start to feel anger and aggression build in me. Its easy to be a by stander

I think, I would like to think, in that pizza shop, I would have stepped in at some point, when the guy was down and he tried to grab him, prolly then... the big guy couldnt fight anyway... but its all about logic vs heart. The logic part is saying "protect yourelf" the heart part is saying "tear this mf apart" and when fear sits on the side of logic... And anyone in a voilent situation has a sense of fear unless they are crazy (Ive known one person in my life who never got scared at all) ... its easy to be a passer by. And whether it sounds unmacho or not, I'll admit that.

I'd like to think I wouldnt stand by, if it was a man having a go at a woman I would more than like to think I wouldnt, but I dont know. I have got beat up before sticking up for a girl... in a bar one time this guy was hitting on a girl I worked with and she was trung to get away and he was sort of trapping her in a corner, so I just kind of came up and threw him over a table and chairs, and one of his friends came up and hit me 3 or 4 times and I maybe landed one half shot back before the bouncers pulled him off... and its amazing how once you are in THAT situation you feel like knocking out about anyone, once you are apart and hurt but not HURT...

I guess people will be brave at different times, anyway.

The point of this was not clear to me.

Strange Famous · 03-12-2005, 12:05 PM

haha, Im not sure I had a point. Just that, from my experience, when you or someone you care about isnt threatened, it is very easy to freeze and not act. And if you yourself are threatened, and you know what youre doing, you can normally protect yourself and yours if you are on an equal footing with the threat.

nulltype · 03-20-2005, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lebell

This REALLY isn't a thread jack, but stories like this are why I conceal carry.

Ah, but I don't see a gun helping in this situation, or in a lot of others. A knife, if you know how to use it, might be pretty effective and not so blatently lethal (which is important, because you're not legally allowed to respond with excessive force). But even then, fists and some pepper spray would have probably resolved this situation in short order. That still being dependent on the other people, which, due to the bystander and shock effects[1], may be totally useless. It's possible that some quick thinking guys could realize what's going on and respond in time, and in such a case, the aforementioned fists and pepper spray would be the optimal strategy except where you are clearly outclassed (150lb guy hand-to-hand with a 250lb guy) or (fists vs knife), in which case a similar weapon would be helpful to stop the fight (as in, they wouldn't attack without a clear advantage).

[1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by clavus

You know, its really easy to say, "I woulda done something," but it is another matter entirely when you are right there. Sometimes, crazy stuff happens and people aren't prepared to deal with it. THe whole thing might last 25 seconds, but they spend 30 seconds saying, "Holy shit, I better do something." And every time the guy throws a punch, they think, "Well, its over now."

+C

Stick · 03-20-2005, 01:57 PM

In a pizza place one night three half pissed arseholes were annoying the staff, so I told them to wake up to themselves and leave people alone. So they attacked me. I bashed one, stabbed another and the third ran away. Lucky (for me) I'm a psycho.

Redjake · 03-20-2005, 03:32 PM

Like I think Clavus mentioned, you don't know what you would have done in that situation. I think a lot of people are overlooking the fact that we have <b>already seen the video.</b> If you were there, without knowing what was going to happen, how do you know he didn't have a gun? If this guy went apeshit so easily over something trivial, shooting someone with a gun doesn't seem entirely out of the picture. I'm sure the first thing I would have thought of is "I don't want to be fucking shot." Now if we all knew or had saw the video, and saw that he didn't have a gun, a lot more people would jump in and help. But the guy could have had one, and that makes a hell of a difference.

flstf · 03-20-2005, 09:49 PM

Looks like they had a community meeting to find out if the charges against the mad woman are racially motivated. Prosecutors have since offered her a plea bargin that essentially gives Sims what she has been seeking for several months: credit for the six months she served in Summit County Jail and an end to the case. A trial date has been set for May 9.

Quote:

Felony charge raises concern at meeting
About 75 people showed up at the Gus Johnson Community Center on South Hawkins Avenue to find out why Prestina Sims was charged with a felony after she accepted a plea bargain from city prosecutors and was already serving a jail sentence. Some are calling it ``double jeopardy.''

``Our concern is not whether Prestina Sims was wrong, because we know violence is wrong,'' Paramore said. ``The issue is if she was offered a plea bargain while serving time how can prosecutors change their minds. And why does this happen for the first time in the courts to us African-Americans... is it racially motivated?''

Sims told the group it had never been a racial issue until now.

``It didn't start as racism. No one was even talking about it until last month when the tape was released. This didn't happen last week, it happened last summer, July 31. It wasn't a racist act, we aren't bullies or even angry people, it could have happened to anybody at any time.''

She told the crowd she was wrong, but claimed the victim, Joseph Scarpino, 28, muttered something to her that set her off.

``I'm sorry for the incident,'' she said. ``I can't believe I let that man push me that far to get me that angry.''

She also apologized for her boyfriend.

``Mark (Jones) is a good man. He has always been a gentleman. He felt like he was protecting me because of something that happened to me.''

Jones was convicted of felonious assault and sentenced to four years in prison.

``We don't embrace violence as a community, it could have happened to anyone. It was not a racial response, but a human response,'' Paramore said. ``If a man hears their wife, sister or girlfriend has been assaulted, physically or verbally or in any kind of trouble, he will come to their rescue.''

xxSquirtxx · 03-20-2005, 10:22 PM

I'm more appalled at all those other fat motherfuckers standing around DOING NOTHING! What the hell!!

Cynthetiq · 03-21-2005, 07:23 AM

Quote:

``It didn't start as racism. No one was even talking about it until last month when the tape was released. This didn't happen last week, it happened last summer, July 31. It wasn't a racist act, we aren't bullies or even angry people, it could have happened to anybody at any time.''

Not bullies or even angry people? seems like a bit high strung to get upset so quickly....

FlunkedFlank · 03-23-2005, 11:29 PM

wow, a truly disturbing video.

apoligies if someone already said this (I haven't read every post), but I think in a situation like that my biggest fear as a bystander would be that the dude might have a weapon. in theory I wouldn't be afraid of trying to get him to stop, even though I'm much smaller, but I'd worry that he might pull out a knife or gun (or return with one) and start doing real damage.

that said, to actually witness the bare inaction of the bystanders is disturbing. they don't even look that freaked out.

thalakos315 · 03-24-2005, 06:17 AM

Quote:

"we aren't bullies or even angry people, it could have happened to anybody at any time.''

this makes perfect sense.. she merely called her boyfriend to help calm the situation, because clearly, this white boy was out for blood.

what really upsets me about this situation is the fact that the gorilla was involved in the first place.. he wasn't even in the building when the whole thing started.
it was an issue between cell-wielding dipshit, and the lady from jerry springer.
if she wanted to behave the way she did and act like an ass, then she should of expected that he would respond in a similar manner. the moment he even looks as if hes going to defend himself, she treats it as an unforgivable attack against her. calling in tiny, instead of dealing with the matter herself.
on top of that.. any rational guy, would realize that mr meek-and-timid, isn't going to do jack shit to his lady, and that she has the situation (whatever it is) firmly in control

Quote:

"we aren't bullies or even angry people, it could have happened to anybody at any time.''

this makes perfect sense.. she merely called her boyfriend to help calm the situation, because clearly, this white boy was out for blood.
calm rational people don't do this shit i'm sorry. i don't care what he said to his wife. through her actions, she obviously proved whatever he could of said to be true.

twilightfoix · 03-24-2005, 09:38 AM

what a stupid bitch

xxSquirtxx · 03-24-2005, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twilightfoix

what a stupid bitch

LOL!!! Best answer yet!!!

liquidlight · 03-24-2005, 02:10 PM

Really my only 2 cents on this would be that this video is stunning proof for me in my support of capital punishment.

It scares me that people of that caliber are freely allowed to procreate.

Gilda · 03-25-2005, 12:14 AM

Well, I'm going to go against the general tack of this thread and admit that I wouldn't have physically intervened. I've backed down from a fight before simply because it's a small price to pay to avoid a physical confrontation.

I'm a little surprised at how many people assume that the only solution here was a violent one. It may in fact have reached that point anyway, but there was plenty of time for non-violent intervention here. There was plenty of time for the guy on the cell phone, or any of the other bystanders, or even the owner of the pizza shop to say something like, let's all calm down and see if we can work this out. The police should have been called the moment the woman started freaking out, and then someone--the owner preferably, should have been talking to her in a calm, reassuring voice until the police arrived. The same with her boyfriend the moment he arrived.

My SO is a highly trained martial artist--her mom is a Tae Kwon Do instructor and she's been getting trained in self defense since she learned to walk. She could have taken that guy down like a sack of potatoes. I've seen her do in class. But she wouldn't have. She'd very likely would have talked the woman down--I've seen her do it--or kept her occupied until the police arrived, and the same with her boyfriend. Violence should always be the last resort, and only in defense. This has, in fact, been pounded into her from the time she started training. Step one: Defuse the situation. Don't escalate. It's better to talk for an hour than fight for a minute. In some 20 years of martial arts training, she's never been in a fight outside of sparring in a dojo. This is because she will deescalate, defuse and/or walk away if possible. She no doubt would have intervened after the first punch, but it really wouldn't have gotten there, partly because a guy is less likely to hit a woman speaking nicely to him than a big guy ignoring him.

Cell phone guy very likely was trying to send a message to the woman who cut in front of him. This was a mistake. Note that I am not placing any blame on cell phone guy--the fault is entirely that of the man who attacked him and the woman who provoked the attack. I'm not saying that he shouldn't have pointed out her rude behavior either, but the manner in which he did it could use some improvement. I would likely have said something like, "Excuse me, Ma'am, but you really should get in line at the end of the line, behind all of the people who were already here, thus being polite and implicitly enlisting the help of the others. Being calm and polite in the face of rudeness throws people off guard; they're not expecting it.

The victim is very likely going to get an out of court settlement for whatever the maximum amount is on the Pizza places owner's liability insurance, and the $25,000 mentioned earlier is a very common amount of coverage for that. It likely would cost something similar for the insurance company to defend against the lawsuit, so out court settlement for the liability limit is very likely, and very common in situations like this.

xxSquirtxx · 03-25-2005, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilda

Well, I'm going to go against the general tack of this thread and admit that I wouldn't have physically intervened. I've backed down from a fight before simply because it's a small price to pay to avoid a physical confrontation.

Well, yeah, we being girls and all, I wouldn't have intervened either. But how many men were standing around that could have stopped the huge idiot? That's my point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilda

I'm a little surprised at how many people assume that the only solution here was a violent one.

It wasn't. That is until Queen Beotch called in her gorilla.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilda

but there was plenty of time for non-violent intervention here. There was plenty of time for the guy on the cell phone, or any of the other bystanders, or even the owner of the pizza shop to say something like, let's all calm down and see if we can work this out. The police should have been called the moment the woman started freaking out, and then someone--the owner preferably, should have been talking to her in a calm, reassuring voice until the police arrived. The same with her boyfriend the moment he arrived.

I totally agree. Everyone pretty much stood around and let her scream and rant and rave like a lunatic and no one did a thing.

03-05-2005, 11:27 AM	#161 (permalink)
Brooke Crazy	My two cents isnt much. If I were a bystander, I would have called the cops, but not intervened. I am no big enough to do anything and would have gotten myself hurt. But three or four of those bystanders in the video could have done somehting collectivly. I suppose it takes a plane being hijacked on 9-11 before people will get up and unite to do that thou, or maybe pizza is just THAT important. __________________ And so its over Your fantasy life is finally at an end And the world above is still a brutal place And the story will start again

03-05-2005, 01:31 PM	#162 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	ok, Im a little embarassed... cos I only just watched the video. The first shot the black guy threw was big... but... in that situation, after watching the video, I wouldnt have felt afraid to step in. I mean, I dunno... but Im pretty sure... that guy wasnt that tough, yiou know? I can understand the logic of standing by and not doing anything... but when he went after the guy when he was down... that would probably be the point I'd do something. From people's comments I mayve over-estimated what would be done,,, I dont think absolute force would be needed in this situation, if someone had had just grabbed the big guy and thrown him on the floor it would have been over. __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

03-07-2005, 01:57 PM	#165 (permalink)
raeanna74 I'm not a blonde! I'm knot! I'm knot! I'm knot! Location: Upper Michigan	I just wonder if someone HAD stepped in if that guy would have laid off. I mean their silence in a sense showed him that he had all the POWER in that establishment. No one was going to stop him or tell him he was wrong. They said so by doing nothing. They in a sense gave him approval by allowing him to continue. They were all afraid. He could do anything at all that he pleased. I HAVE stepped into a somewhat similar situation. Between a guy not quite has heavy but just as tall who was attacking another man who was somewhat smaller but not a wimp in the least. I simply grabbed the man's collar, looked him in the guy from almost a foot below his eye level ( ), and said low and quietly "Don't you dare. Back off." The situation diffused. That made the number two against one. Albeit one (5'5" 130 lb) woman and one somewhat smaller man against the attacker. The point was he lost the "power" in the situation. No one was GIVING him power by being afraid and no one was going to allow him to continue without at least some injury. I really doubt that the attacked man (I don't like the term victim) would have suffered quite as seriously if someone had grabbed a rolling pin, ran up between them and said "STOP and LEAVE now or else." Don't make any promises like "You'll loose your hand." Simply say "or else" - simple psychology will cause their imagination to come up with worse punishments that even you may believe yourself capable of. That can sometimes be sufficient deterent. I'd take one hit physically to ensure that I knew that I'd done what I could to stall the confrontation. __________________ "Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

03-07-2005, 08:15 PM	#166 (permalink)
tspikes51 Fuckin' A Location: Lex Vegas	This is the kind of thing that makes me want to lift weights more often. I'm glad that I'm a decent size (6'1", 245 lbs), and have a sense of justice and a feeling of obligation to help people when they need it. __________________ "I'm telling you, we need to get rid of a few people or a million." -Maddox

03-08-2005, 05:10 PM	#167 (permalink)
Ambition Insane Location: Miami, FL	Words cannot describe the disgust I felt watching that video. I don't even want to get started on what I think. But it's a grim reminder of how screwed up the legal system is in the greatest country in the world. __________________ Looking for answers to questions that can't be answered.

03-06-2005, 07:32 PM	#164 (permalink)
0energy0 Insane Location: Title Town, USA	over pizza? seriously... and i hate people like that. someone is going to have their bottom whipped.

03-12-2005, 10:52 AM	#168 (permalink)
sob Banned	I'm about to demonstrate why I picked the username "sob." I have been involved in a couple of situations like this. The last one was three or four months ago when some wacko started abusing a young mother in line at McDonald's because her kid was crying. In each instance of such an event that I have seen, every person around seemed to want to look the other way. This whole thread full of people who "would have done something" very much smells to me like a collection of the usual personalities who are very brave as long as they're at a keyboard. Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings, but my experience is that in a random group of people, you're lucky to have ONE person willing to get involved, and in this thread we have lots of people who supposedly would have entered the fray with flying fists of fury. That's not necessarily bad--not even the Navy SEALS I know are anxious to mix it up with someone who might be packing. It just bugs the hell out of me that some people who claim to be pro-active are gun-control proponents. That's why Lebell hit it on the head. Your best defense if you're the victim here is to be carrying, unless you've already had a few years of martial arts training. That's also why politicians like Diane Feinstein suck, because they think they're reducing crime by making a CC permit impossible to get in California. Any witness not willing to carry should be on the cell phone calling the cops, but that isn't going to help you if you're the one getting the crap beat out of you. Wouldn't you be very anxious for an honest person in line to have a pistol, and know how to use it? Remember that the next time a gun-control politician is running for office.

03-12-2005, 12:05 PM	#178 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	haha, Im not sure I had a point. Just that, from my experience, when you or someone you care about isnt threatened, it is very easy to freeze and not act. And if you yourself are threatened, and you know what youre doing, you can normally protect yourself and yours if you are on an equal footing with the threat. __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

03-20-2005, 01:57 PM	#180 (permalink)
Stick Psycho Location: Sydney, Australia	In a pizza place one night three half pissed arseholes were annoying the staff, so I told them to wake up to themselves and leave people alone. So they attacked me. I bashed one, stabbed another and the third ran away. Lucky (for me) I'm a psycho. __________________ ominous adj. Menacing; threatening. Of or being an omen, especially an evil one.

03-20-2005, 03:32 PM	#181 (permalink)
Redjake I'm a family man - I run a family business. Location: Wilson, NC	Like I think Clavus mentioned, you don't know what you would have done in that situation. I think a lot of people are overlooking the fact that we have <b>already seen the video.</b> If you were there, without knowing what was going to happen, how do you know he didn't have a gun? If this guy went apeshit so easily over something trivial, shooting someone with a gun doesn't seem entirely out of the picture. I'm sure the first thing I would have thought of is "I don't want to be fucking shot." Now if we all knew or had saw the video, and saw that he didn't have a gun, a lot more people would jump in and help. But the guy could have had one, and that makes a hell of a difference. __________________ Off the record, on the q.t., and very hush-hush.

03-20-2005, 10:22 PM	#183 (permalink)
xxSquirtxx More anal, less shenanigans Location: Always lurking	I'm more appalled at all those other fat motherfuckers standing around DOING NOTHING! What the hell!!

03-23-2005, 11:29 PM	#185 (permalink)
FlunkedFlank Tilted	wow, a truly disturbing video. apoligies if someone already said this (I haven't read every post), but I think in a situation like that my biggest fear as a bystander would be that the dude might have a weapon. in theory I wouldn't be afraid of trying to get him to stop, even though I'm much smaller, but I'd worry that he might pull out a knife or gun (or return with one) and start doing real damage. that said, to actually witness the bare inaction of the bystanders is disturbing. they don't even look that freaked out. __________________ Jesus saves ... and Gretzky gets the rebound!

03-24-2005, 09:38 AM	#187 (permalink)
twilightfoix Insane Location: in the clouds ;)	what a stupid bitch

03-24-2005, 02:10 PM	#189 (permalink)
liquidlight AHH! Custom Title!! Location: The twisted warpings of my brain.	Really my only 2 cents on this would be that this video is stunning proof for me in my support of capital punishment. It scares me that people of that caliber are freely allowed to procreate.

03-25-2005, 12:14 AM	#190 (permalink)
Gilda 32 flavors and then some Location: Out on a wire.	Well, I'm going to go against the general tack of this thread and admit that I wouldn't have physically intervened. I've backed down from a fight before simply because it's a small price to pay to avoid a physical confrontation. I'm a little surprised at how many people assume that the only solution here was a violent one. It may in fact have reached that point anyway, but there was plenty of time for non-violent intervention here. There was plenty of time for the guy on the cell phone, or any of the other bystanders, or even the owner of the pizza shop to say something like, let's all calm down and see if we can work this out. The police should have been called the moment the woman started freaking out, and then someone--the owner preferably, should have been talking to her in a calm, reassuring voice until the police arrived. The same with her boyfriend the moment he arrived. My SO is a highly trained martial artist--her mom is a Tae Kwon Do instructor and she's been getting trained in self defense since she learned to walk. She could have taken that guy down like a sack of potatoes. I've seen her do in class. But she wouldn't have. She'd very likely would have talked the woman down--I've seen her do it--or kept her occupied until the police arrived, and the same with her boyfriend. Violence should always be the last resort, and only in defense. This has, in fact, been pounded into her from the time she started training. Step one: Defuse the situation. Don't escalate. It's better to talk for an hour than fight for a minute. In some 20 years of martial arts training, she's never been in a fight outside of sparring in a dojo. This is because she will deescalate, defuse and/or walk away if possible. She no doubt would have intervened after the first punch, but it really wouldn't have gotten there, partly because a guy is less likely to hit a woman speaking nicely to him than a big guy ignoring him. Cell phone guy very likely was trying to send a message to the woman who cut in front of him. This was a mistake. Note that I am not placing any blame on cell phone guy--the fault is entirely that of the man who attacked him and the woman who provoked the attack. I'm not saying that he shouldn't have pointed out her rude behavior either, but the manner in which he did it could use some improvement. I would likely have said something like, "Excuse me, Ma'am, but you really should get in line at the end of the line, behind all of the people who were already here, thus being polite and implicitly enlisting the help of the others. Being calm and polite in the face of rudeness throws people off guard; they're not expecting it. The victim is very likely going to get an out of court settlement for whatever the maximum amount is on the Pizza places owner's liability insurance, and the $25,000 mentioned earlier is a very common amount of coverage for that. It likely would cost something similar for the insurance company to defend against the lawsuit, so out court settlement for the liability limit is very likely, and very common in situations like this.