MooseMan3000

Link.


So now, if a woman were so inclined, she could carry sharp objects or other weapons between her breasts, and they would never be found. While I'm not a fan of most of the "security" measures taken post 9/11, the fact is most of those planes were hijacked with pens and box cutters - items that can easily go between a pair of boobs. So when the metal detector goes off, and then they swipe the thing in front of you chest and it beeps... "It's my underwire."

If you can't deal with being touched, don't fly. If you can't deal with the new x-ray machines that look under clothes, don't fly. Changing rules like this is just inviting people to pull shit.


On the plus side, women may have more jobs in the middle east now. Oof, bad joke.

denim

They can still touch 'em if there's an abnormality in the look or the wanding.

Bill O'Rights

This was foreseeable.
People have a tendancy to cry for tighter security, especially after an "incident". What people do not want, is to be inconvenienced, in any way, by increased security. People whine, security loosens, something goes "boom", people cry about lax security measures. I've seen this play out before. When I was in the Air Force, back in the mid 80's, after the bombing of the Marine barracks, in Beirut, HQ SAC buttoned up the headquarters complex. That lasted for about a year, then little by little all the security measures, that cost millions of dollars to implement, were whittled away, little by little, until things were back to the way they were.

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Janey

Security screeners now will keep their hands to the "chest perimeter" of women unless detection equipment picks up the possibility that they are hiding explosives between their breasts.

so I don't think they will get away with anything. Does it look like I could hide anything? And I'm fairly typical.

BoCo

What about men's breasts?

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the_marq

Hands off my man-boobs! It's just the underwire in my "bro."

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#3 in a series

energus

I am a bit confused, do not travel much in USA (actually so far never have), but does this apply to same sex searches/searchers as well? Cause that would be weird.

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skinnymofo

i doubt it highly.
if i get searched at the airport next time im there im going to complain when they touch up my leg because my tesicles were inconvienced by the jostling and therefore need repositioning.
as a side note i just missed out on being a securtiy screener and wasnt aware that men could even pat down the women, as i understand it when theres a situation with police they have to call for a women officer?

Faygo

This country is fucked up. this kind of shit is to be expected

smooth

I don't think any citizens should be 'patting' anyone.

How about this mooseman: if you don't like my right not to be touched by strangers, how about you not flying?

I haven't flown yet since all this dumb shit got implemented. And I plan on raising ruckus when I do have to fly. I'm glad enough people complained to drum sense into the implementation of these measures. Hopefully people will continue to complain loudly until we can walk onto public transportation without being accosted.

And if my attitude results in me being blown to bits, at least I will have lived all the other days of my life without being manhandled by representatives of the state.

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ObieX

I'm sure the people in towers 1 and 2 would have loved to hear that.
I'm not sure where you live, but where i live you could see the smoke from my house. If having some chicks boobs felt up prevents that shit from happening again im all for it. Line them up, i'll do it myself.

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guthmund

That's just it. It won't. Airport security has always done a pretty decent job of keeping the airliners safe, but you can't protect everybody from every possible threat every hour of every day. Not to mention the only 'improvements' I've seen are at screening. What about the stuff in cargo? What about restricting access to the cockpits? What about security on board? What about the qualifications of those running the scanners? For that matter, what about the people loading the plane to begin with? For all their talk the 'new and improved' security measures are superficial at best. They're in a highly visable part of the airport and affect millions of travellers everyday. It's a PR snowjob.

It doesn't matter anyway. Again, BOR has hit the nail right on the head. The public will start to get upset, issue demands and the folks in charge, who are afraid of offending The Consumer, will relax policy and eventually all our 'new and improved' security measures will slowly disappear until it's business as usual again in America's airports.

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blitz.fenix

Can't women pat down women? Or is that a bit intrusive still.

bendsley

DAMMIT, JUST WHEN I THOUGHT THIS JOB WAS ABOUT TO GET FUN!

SONOFA....


grrr

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Painted

In prison, after visiting hours when the prisoners go back to their cells, it's illegal (at least in California) for female guards to search/pat down male prisoners, and likewise with male guards and female prisoners.

That's how it should be in the airports. Except the part about prisoners.

Blackthorn

Gosh darn my bad luck! I'm going to have to withdraw my employment application....

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Vincentt

All airports should be using The Naked X-Ray already.

smooth

I'm actually at the other end of the country--in Orange County. Right in between LA and San Diego, actually. So I consider my chances of being blown to bits quite high.

Regardless of what I can see from my window, I have personal ties to a couple of people who died the day I interpret you to be talking about. And given our past discussions on matters regarding security, personal rights, and government intrusion, I would just let you know that they at least agree with my position. I don't know the opinions of any of the people you personally lost, and I'm not trying to speak for them.

Maybe they would have disagreed with me.

But my friends wouldn't have given up all the other free days they lived to score some political points in real life, on an internet forum, or any other place that I'm aware of. They wouldn't have appreciated being stopped and frisked every time they entered their workplace, or used public transportation, or even just walking down the street.

My friends and family in the active military share a similar view. I would think my position, once people strip their own perspective of political rhetoric, is the one most commonly held among average citizens. Until recently, my position was codified in various protections against personal and official interference without due process or just cause.

I've never taken my safety for granted. I've always recognized that my safety was in careful balance against intrusions of liberty. Maybe that attitude comes from growing up in a metropolis where personal safety is primarily a personal endeavor before it's controlled by the state. But I don't think a large proportion of US citizens, once their personal safety registers aren't constanstly dinged by intentionally instigating presentations of the facts by our current administration and any who follow this example, will agree that agents of the state should be feeling up free citizens--regardless of how safe it may make one feel. Especially bringing gender into it as you so eloquently did. I prefer my liberty sans safety if the latter infringes on the former.

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Psycho Dad

Most of the post 9/11 security measures are simply knee jerk reactions that do little if any good. I doubt that the next Al-Qaeda master plan is going to be launched by a buxom woman with WMD between her funbags. It is past time to abandon these measures that were put in place to simply make people feel safer instead of actually making them safer.

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Fohur2

Im split on the issue,I wanna be safe,but...theres a lot of sick perverts.

nothingx

That's exactly the way it is... er... was. Only women screeners screened women.

Personally, I don't see what the big deal is. I've been through airport security at least 20 times in the past year and I've never had a problem with it. For those of you that don't know what the process is like, typically you walk up to the check-in counter and get your boarding pass. You must show a government issued photo ID to get your pass printed. You hand your checked luggage to the attendant and it goes off somewhere to be screened and occationally searched. Next you walk up to the security checkpoint. At this time, a TSA agent will examine your boarding pass and your photo ID again to make sure you are heading down the proper terminal for your airline. Then you stand in line to go through the metal detectors. The easiest thing to do is just dump everything you have on you into a bucket and send it through the xray. They will suggest that you remove your shoes, but tell you that you are not required to. If you don't remove them, they will pull you out of line and wipe your shoes with some chemical sniffer device. The easiest thing to do is just take them off. You walk through the metal detector, get your stuff that went through the xray and go on your way. Nothing to it.

Occationally, and this is very rare, they will randomly pull someone out of line and pat them down. I have never had this happen to me, but a female co-worker of mine has. She said a female TSA agent wearing gloves patted her down including around the breasts. She said the agent used the backs of her hands to do it, so it wasn't a groping or anything like that, and it wasn't bad at all.

I always hear people complaining about airport security, but I find that if you just do what they ask you, they won't see you as suspicious and you'll be through it in no time.

The Prophet

Corporate welfare at its finest - the security measures implemented directly after 9/11 were only to save the ass of the already financially pinched airlines. There are thousands of ways to kill thousands of people at one time in this country and even those "piece of shit terrorists" are smarter than to try the same thing twice. And why would they? If they truly wish to promote fear, wouldn't they be better off demonstrating diversity in ability? And how stupid are we, to concentrate so much effort and finances in one area.

The goal of terrorism is to cause fear. How do we answer it? By being afraid, wasting resourses and giving ourselves a false sense of security.

And who wins?

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World's King

It's sad that had to be told to not do this.


Not that I wouldn't if I had the chance.

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AquaFox

the more goofy solution for this problem is to make all searchers strait looking women, the ladies will not mind it as much and the guys will enjoy it more

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...AquaFox...

Grasshopper Green

I've flown four times since 9-11 and have been patted down twice...I guess I'm suspicious looking or something. Anyway, a female patted me down both times and it was very unobtrusive. In fact, I don't remember them touching my breasts at all.

ElwoodBlues

am I crazy, or does that sound like a line that belongs on the Daily Show or Weekend Update, and not a legitimate news source?

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MSD

When you buy a plane ticket, you are agreeing to be subjected to whatever regulations the private company that sold you the ticket has put in place. There is no manhandling going on in the majority of cases, and in the rare case that it does happen, it's not by representatives of the state, it's by employees of a private company that owns the plane you're going to be in for your flight.

Complaining about private companies screening people in whatever way they see fit is like complaining that your friend makes you wear a seatbelt and doesn't let you eat in his car. If the airlines, airports, and all property of the airlines and airports were owned by the government (*shudder,) then you would have a right to complain. If you don't want to get patted down, I suggest you take a train.


Beyond the complaining and talk of rights, I don't see what the big deal is about touching someone's breasts in a businesslike, non-sexual manner. When I go somewhere that requires security screenings, I'm not offended when someone touches my balls, I just stand there and don't whine because someone touched my crotch to make sure I don't have a bomb in my pants. There's plenty of room to fit just about anything in my pants, and if someone wants to make sure that I'm not bringing in something that they told me not to bring, it's their right to check. If a security person acts in an unprofessional or inappropriate manner, I will inform the supervisor and consider taking my business elsewhere.

MooseMan3000

Well, my main argument would have to be that flying is not a RIGHT. Just like walking into any privately owned building is not a RIGHT. It's a PRIVILEGE. Nowhere in the Bill of Rights does it say "And the right to board a priately owned airplane without a proper security screening shall not be infringed." So good work.

MooseMan3000

Yeah, but it's not a WMD. Or have we so soon forgotten that the planes weren't hijacked with guns? That they weren't hijacked with grenades, or plastic explosives? That they were hijacked and subsequently used as weapons THEMSELVES with little more than pens and a bunch of very dedicated people.

As for the comment that terrorist attacks won't be "...launched by a buxom woman..." Why not? That is an unnecessarily sexist and dated view of people. To assume that only men are capable of commiting murder, that only MEN would want to do something to harm the United States is ridiculous. Or did you not notice that most countries have women in their armies, or that frequently women are used in "insurgent" fighting to distract soldiers that don't think women will fight?

Or, assuming that you're right. Women don't want to hurt anyone. They aren't capable of murder. Who's to say that they can't be bought off or forced to carry something on to a plane for a man to kill someone with?


Just for the record, like I said in my original post, I believe most security measures taken post 9/11 are bullshit. The USA Patriot Act is absurd. Example: Thanks to the Patriot Act, I cannot open a savings account in a bank where I ALREADY HAVE a checking account WITHOUT MY PASSPORT (I had my state drivers license). But I digress.


I don't think airport security is very good. I think it has an awful lot more problems than most people care to admit. But this is just adding to the lot. It's a foolish act designed to make a few self-conscious women feel more comfortable with flying that could put many lives at risk.

Lockjaw

Yet if it was successful they would automatically not attempt it again? This isn't freakin Cobra or the Decepticons that hatch some elaborate plan have it be thrwarted and never think of it again. There were numerous plans and attempts to knock down the WTC and there have been even more attempts since 9/11 for people to attempt to bring down airliners. That's just not true to say terrorists won't use the same tactic twice. HELLO! Two words...car bombs.

Now as far as the sentiment of you those who don't care if they get blown because they were allowed their perceived freedoms....well sir you might not care but I DO!
Just make me a deal then. If we are both on a plane that gets hijacked and is sent hurtling towards the ground raise your hand so I can send you to oblivion personally.

raeanna74

I thought that they had woman searchers to ONLY search the women? I don't see a big problem with it. The one time their computer pulled me from line and I got patted down it was a woman (abeit somewhat masculine in body and face but a woman) who patted me down.

When I go to fly I make sure I'm not wearing jewelry, underwires, metal belt buckles, high heeled shoes with the metal posts in the heels, etc. I take off my shoes and send them through the machine as well as any coat or even sweater that I'm wearing. I don't even take foil wrapped gum in my purse or mint tins. There is absolutely NOTHING that they will need to check me for. I pack my basics in my carry on but carry NOTHING that could show on an x-ray machine as odd or out of order. I've been pulled aside ONLY before I learned to do this (except once when it was a computer choice). When the woman patted me down it was done professionally, without eye contact, and quickly IN public. If I were taken to a separate room and patted down by a man alone - yeah I'd make a fuss. In public?? She didn't have enough time to fantacise. My Mom who is overly sensitive about sexual things got patted down once too and yet she saw nothing wrong with it. She felt her security was worth the inconvenience.

I think people make too much fuss about personal space and privacy. We're isolating ourselves more an more as individuals and less and less as a nation. What will that do to us eventually??

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ShaniFaye

I've been patted several times....seems those wands like my nipple rings...each time it was done by another woman and took about 10 seconds and I did not feel I was being touched inapporpriately at all.

I dont find this a big enuff issue to make a big deal about it...

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Zephyr66

hahaha, Shani, why were you even wearing nipple rings if you knew you were gonna go through those machines?

ShaniFaye

to give them something to do?

Im not gonna take off my jewerly just to go thru a line....its no skin off my nose to get searched.....Im not someone thats doing anything wrong. Its less hassle to get searched than to take them out and then have to worry with spending time in the womens bathroom half undressed to put them back in. I've had them done for 3 years...but they have a tendancy to start to close up very quickly

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pattycakes

before 911 there was the ok city bombing, the president did not turn it into something it wasnt. much like bush turned 911 into a reason to invade a country that didnt attack us

FloydianOne

Yeah I went with my family to hawaii the december after 911 and all 3 times we boarded planes (going, changing islands, coming home), I was picked out of my family for a search... they even made me take my shoes off (that shoe bomber dude just did his thing while we were in hawaii). I was never uncomfortable while being searched. Although I did wonder why I was picked out 3 times.

Frowning Budah

As someone who just flew and got picked for special security, (I bought the tickets late) I have to tell you the people doing the searches were very pleasant and professional. Neither my wife or I minded the pat down. I did however find the lines intolerable. I also feel the process is pretty much wasted. On the flight back hardly anything was looked at. I didn't have to show them my belt buckle or remove my hat. I see the need for some security, but I doubt it is effective and I know you are going to have people abuse the power they are given. I think the passengers need more right to protect them from officials that are overly zealous or are out for a kinky thrill.

martinguerre

i always laugh a little about the "same gender only" search rules. it's as if they assume queers not only don't fly, they don't apply for security jobs.

last time i got searched, i actually thought the guy was kinda cute.

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water_boy1999

Mr Self Destruct says it more eloquently than I would be able. Thanks!

Look, if you put so much value on your civil liberties that you can't even do a simple pat down before entering the plane, then don't fly. Smooth: If you plan on making a ruckus, I say feel free to do so. In fact, do it at the airport and see what happens.

What gets me is the fact that we don't have all the answers. Some of you complain about how we are handling things post 9/11, yet none of you are providing alternative solutions for how we can better protect ourselves. Our government, as well as private corporations, have enacted "knee-jerk" solutions to provide as much immediate safety as they could with the given circumstances. If terrorists thought that they could use our airlines as WMD's again, then what makes you think they won't try it again if we don't secure our airlines? Remember the dude with the shoe bomb?

Simply put, if you don't like the way things are run, don't participate and don't bitch about it if you are not prepared to offer alternative solutions.

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smooth

I offered a solution: Don't pat down law-abiding citizens.


We've been doing it so far our entire nation's history. If you feel so unsafe that you want to trade our hard-won liberties for some false sense of security, perhaps you should rethink your commitment to a free society.

I will cause a ruckus...and then what? Are you threatening me?
"Don't resist official intrusion into your personal life despite perfectly acceptable and law-abiding behavior."
That is a very weird attitude to be coming from a fellow "American."

Our nation's founders and its history are on my side of this issue. Evidently, someone is going to have to push this into the courts to see if they still are also on the right side of this issue.

Look, we could eliminate terrorism and even criminal behavior if we spied on everyone's activities and did random pat-downs throughout our cities. I prefer to live with crime and deviance if it means I can walk down the street without fear of being harassed by government officials or even private citizens (as if they somehow can't violate personal civil liberties, too).

I won't fly because it my civil liberties do mean that much to me. I can't even fathom how a statement could come out of someone who really believes in the ideals of this country.

It's really that simple.

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"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman