10-14-2004, 06:19 PM | #1 (permalink) | |
Inspired by the mind's eye.
Location: Between the darkness and the light.
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British Newspaper tries to infleuence American vote.
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When I was in Germany during the summer, they were holding elections for the EU Members of Parliment. I said nothing of my opinions to the Germans. The only time I gave an opinion was after the votes had been counted, then I said that I was pleased with the result. But on the other hand, I had several Germans tell me how I should vote in this election. In every case I told them that this is an American election and the opinions of Germans bears no weight. If they pressed the issue further I replied with, "Meinetwegen." (Translation: I don't care) And in every case it just pissed me off that these Europeans thought they knew how to run America better than the Americans themselves.
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Aside from my great plans to become the future dictator of the moon, I have little interest in political discussions. Last edited by mirevolver; 10-14-2004 at 08:02 PM.. |
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10-14-2004, 07:26 PM | #2 (permalink) |
Junkie
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I don't know whether to be offended honored or just flat out laugh.
This if nothing else proves America's place in the world and nobody can really deny it. If you have people that concerned about your internal politics that they would go through the effort to beg Billy Joe in bumblefuck Ohio to vote all the way from England you know you've got the power...no matter what certain places beginning with F might think. I kind of wish I lived in that town just so I could see what kind of letter I would get. lol. Have to give those guys props for thinking outside the box on this one. I highly doubt their efforts will do any good as I would think the average American would give two craps about someone from another country telling them how to vote. |
10-14-2004, 07:58 PM | #3 (permalink) |
Banned
Location: Swooping down on you from above....
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Foreigners trying to tell us how to run our country:
It's already begun...... Congress wants to amend the constitution to alllow "Ah-nuld" to eventually run for the White House. This makes me sick. We can't find an American to run the fucking country? We have to turn to foreign movie stars? We have to put people in positions of power just becasue they're "popular with the masses?" Never mind that he's not the most qualified for the job. He's popluar!! That's good enough according to right-wing Washington. Pathetic. |
10-14-2004, 08:09 PM | #4 (permalink) | |
Inspired by the mind's eye.
Location: Between the darkness and the light.
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Aside from my great plans to become the future dictator of the moon, I have little interest in political discussions. |
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10-14-2004, 08:19 PM | #5 (permalink) |
Banned
Location: Swooping down on you from above....
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I didn't say that Arnold couldn’t vote. I don't want him to be president because he's not an American born citizen. Even though he became a citizen, he's still a foreigner from another country (this is outlined in the constitution itself) and I don't want foreigners running our country.
Last edited by Flyguy; 10-14-2004 at 08:21 PM.. |
10-14-2004, 08:39 PM | #6 (permalink) |
Registered User
Location: On the internet
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America, or more accurately George Bush, tried to influence the Australian election. And why shouldn't people outside of America try and influence the result of the US poll. The result of the US election will have a clear influence on the rest of the world given the US's desire to meddle in so many different countries affairs!!!
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10-14-2004, 08:40 PM | #7 (permalink) |
Winner
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There's a thread on this in the politics forum, which I think is the more suitable forum for this discussion:
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=72454 |
10-14-2004, 08:45 PM | #8 (permalink) |
Crazy
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I've had friends who are non citizens give me input on who they think I should vote for. I've always found it interesting when they do that. They care, but not enough to pursue citizenship. I'm not offended by it. I don't see this UK thing as a big threat either. People will probably treat it as spam. Now what would be funny is if Iran or North Korea had this campaign. I wonder how Bush would react.
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10-14-2004, 08:50 PM | #9 (permalink) | |
Inspired by the mind's eye.
Location: Between the darkness and the light.
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Aside from my great plans to become the future dictator of the moon, I have little interest in political discussions. |
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10-14-2004, 09:03 PM | #10 (permalink) |
big damn hero
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In reality the American Presidential election is an important issue for everyone.
Granted I'm not a big fan of the methodology, but I can't fault the British from becoming involved the only way they know how. They certainly can't cast a vote, but they can plead the case. Rest assured, my fellow Americans, the fate of the Presidency isn't in the hands of foreigners and it's not like they're trying to rig the election; they're just writing letters. It's no different then when you write letters to express your concern with corporate policy; it's no different when churches write letters to the networks. They're just letters. I just don't see how it could hurt. If anything, it might, god forbid, get people talking. The world at large has as much to lose as the American people in this next election. American Presidents have always had a heavy hand in the world forum, nevermore so than the present and America's influence in world affairs doesn't seem to be declining anytime soon. We should be interested in the elections of other countries. We should be knowledgable in worldwide politics. Their elections affect us as well. We should give a shit about who's in charge in Canada, Mexico, England, France, Germany and the list goes on.... It's knowledge, I'll admit, I wasn't too interested at first, but I'm doing my best to correct it. BTW, I don't give a shit if Arnold Schwarz...whatever ( I can't spell it ) wants to be President. I would imagine the first question should be "Is he qualified?" not "Is he naturalized or not?" That, however, seems to be the first requirement culled when running for public office lately.
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10-14-2004, 09:39 PM | #11 (permalink) | ||||
Inspired by the mind's eye.
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Aside from my great plans to become the future dictator of the moon, I have little interest in political discussions. |
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10-14-2004, 09:57 PM | #12 (permalink) |
Delicious
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Naturalized citizens should have every right to become president. You can't fault a man for being born in another country. He's lived in the US longer than I've been alive and he's obviously qualified for the job, well at least more than most people.
I'm curious who other countries want me to vote, not just british, but german Iraqi, Japanese, Korean, whoever... I always welcome to an outside opinion.
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10-14-2004, 10:21 PM | #13 (permalink) |
Addict
Location: Portland
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you people are rediculous, you're missing the point. America has made itself the police of the world, and the way WE United States citizens vote will effect the rest of the world greatly.
For instance.. the US' decision to invade Iraq has sent armies from not just here, but Canada, the UK, Germany, etc.. None of those countries had anything to do with it, except for their loyalty to the US, and vice versa. They have EVERY RIGHT to voice their opinions on an issue that WILL effect them. If this were Pre-WW1 U.S. then I'd agree.. we don't mess with ya'all, ya'all don't mess with all. But with the responsibilities of position(s) the US has elected itself into, the rest of the world should AT LEAST be able to voice their opinions about this very crucial election. |
10-14-2004, 10:34 PM | #14 (permalink) | |
Inspired by the mind's eye.
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And Canada and Germany did not send troops to Iraq.
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Aside from my great plans to become the future dictator of the moon, I have little interest in political discussions. |
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10-15-2004, 01:32 AM | #15 (permalink) |
Shackle Me Not
Location: Newcastle - England.
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I'm just guessing here but, of the 350,000 people who read 'The Guardian', only a tiny percentage will bother to write to the people of Clark County.
If your preferred candidate doesn't win the election don't look back on this as the reason. Now, breathe... and... ...relax. |
10-15-2004, 02:09 AM | #16 (permalink) | |
Crazy
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This only goes to show that Europeans (among others) feel that the outcome of the US election will have a significant impact on the world as a whole and Europe in particular. But as usual, we (the Europeans) are short-sighted: Bush was "bad", cos he went to Iraq. So he should not be reelected. Seriously, I've yet to meet someone, anyone who is actually for Bush over here. What most of us here don't bother to realize is that the elections concern primarily the domestic politics of the US, so lecturing Americans on what to do is way out of line. Just so you know, personally, I don't give a rusty fuck who gets elected.
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10-15-2004, 05:02 AM | #18 (permalink) | |
Illusionary
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Guess I had better stop watching BBC news, and ask for my money back from NPR. The media influence is far more effective when it comes to changing minds, and I for one, use these "Foreign" sources for information due to the slant (both ways) of American Media. Am I being influenced?
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10-15-2004, 04:43 PM | #19 (permalink) | |
Crazy
Location: Liverpool UK
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Anyway, with this thread being about foreign involvement in the choosing of others' governments, I'm surprised nobody mentioned South America yet. Last edited by jimbob; 10-15-2004 at 04:46 PM.. |
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10-15-2004, 05:44 PM | #20 (permalink) | ||
Inspired by the mind's eye.
Location: Between the darkness and the light.
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And France holds a veto vote in the UN security council. So this pretty much shows that going to the UN is a waste of time.
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Aside from my great plans to become the future dictator of the moon, I have little interest in political discussions. |
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10-15-2004, 06:04 PM | #21 (permalink) |
Crazy
Location: Liverpool UK
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You need to focus on where the attack came from. I don't know anyone who is against the war in Afghanistan, even though there are suspicious oil contacts there too.
We had an unprovoked attack in Spain and if you believe the reports then numerous terrorist cells have been broken up, so preventing other atrocities. There were American individuals and corporations listed in the report too. They were the ones under the big black marks. The report also found that Saddam had no capacity to attack the US and was only maintaining plans to rearm because he felt a threat from Iran. We'd have known that years ago if the US hadn't been so quick to dismiss the UN. That's another reason we'd like to be able to influence your election - we've learned since WW2 that a multilateral approach and negotiating is much better than unilateralism and war. We're also greatful for the US (and not forgetting Russia's part in the liberation of Europe) for giving us the chance to learn that lesson. It's very sad that so much is talked about Europeans being anti-American when this just isn't the case. On 12 September 2001 a French newspaper headline read "We're all Americans now". Bush has thrown away so much of the good will that America had post 9/11 and we're anti-Bush, not anti-American. |
10-15-2004, 06:26 PM | #22 (permalink) | |
Stonerific
Location: Colorado
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Now to get to the point, I would be very interested in opinions from people in other countries. It's one more opinion, one more viewpoint to bounce mine off, to check the validity of my arguments. US actions have implications throughout the world. If citizens of other countries need/want to tell me something they see that I don't, or that doesn't travel through US mass media, be my guest. I'll certainly try to factor it into my calculations. Now this doesn't imply that I'll be doing things without America's best interests in heart. However, I trust my own judgement. If one email from a Brit is enough to significantly alter my vote, my arguments weren't all that strong to begin with. Screw nationalism. We're all in the same boat. *shrug* |
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10-15-2004, 06:35 PM | #23 (permalink) |
Please touch this.
Owner/Admin
Location: Manhattan
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This thread reaks of rotten nationalism. Get over yourselves and listen to someone else for a change. We're not the center of the world. I gladly welcome the opinions of others.
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10-15-2004, 09:34 PM | #24 (permalink) | |
Inspired by the mind's eye.
Location: Between the darkness and the light.
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When I see the Guardian doing this, I see yet another example of European arrogance where they feel that they are better qualified to select the American President that the American people themselves are. They make this descision based purely on how the American president will effect them and give no regard for the domestic issues of the United States which is what will have the primary effect on the American people who are the ones voting.
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Aside from my great plans to become the future dictator of the moon, I have little interest in political discussions. |
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10-15-2004, 09:52 PM | #25 (permalink) | ||||
big damn hero
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America is hardly alone in her achievements of world domination. The Macedonians, Romans, Persians, Mongols, Carthaginians and the Chinese all did fairly well in the world, all things considered. For more recent examples, WWII Germany and Russia all held sizable deeds and carried some influence with the world at large. I've even heard China mentioned in the same breath as America when speaking of the sacred "superpower." Quote:
I just can't see where hearing a wide variety of opinion to help frame your decision is so terribly evil.
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No signature. None. Seriously. |
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10-15-2004, 10:14 PM | #26 (permalink) |
Jesus Freak
Location: Following the light...
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I agree with MiRevolver. It's an American Election, and thus has no place for influence by foreigners in any way. Just as elections in other countries have no place for influence by us in any way.
I'm glad that they're not sending those letters to my state. I'm unaffiliated politically because I don't agree with any party enough to register as a member of that party. I'm an independant free thinker who agrees and dissagrees with aspects all polical parties. But being unaffiliated would have me on that list to recieve those letters, and that would piss me off to no end! I already recieve enough junkmail trying to persuade me one way or another from political groups on campus, and I hate it! I don't need more of it from a foreigner who has no right to tell me how to vote in my election!
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"People say I'm strange, does that make me a stranger?" |
10-15-2004, 10:24 PM | #27 (permalink) | |||
Inspired by the mind's eye.
Location: Between the darkness and the light.
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Aside from my great plans to become the future dictator of the moon, I have little interest in political discussions. |
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10-16-2004, 01:25 AM | #28 (permalink) |
Crazy
Location: Liverpool UK
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At some point in the run up to the Iraq war at least 2 surveys found that over 80% of the US population believed that Iraqi nationals were hijackers on the 9/11 flights. Something in the domestic Media/Political circus managed to get 200 million people to believe a lie that would influence them to support a war which has since been proven to have no positive effect on homeland security. I'm sure this could happen in every other country on the planet too so it would be prudent for any nation to listen to outside voices once in a while - at least on foreign policy.
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10-16-2004, 03:01 AM | #29 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Ha, now you know how Australia feels. We get "influenced" by an AMERICAN citizen who owns a whole ton of our newspapers. Heck he even used to be one of us until he RENOUNCED his Australian citizenship - but he'll still pretend to be Aussie when some idiot asks him who to vote for.
You may of heard of him, he owns a little channel called "Fox News". |
10-16-2004, 04:21 AM | #30 (permalink) | |
Psycho
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For all those who feel outraged that a foreign country is attempting to influence the US elections, now you have some idea how it feels for citizens of other countries when the US not only attempts to influence their elections, but actually tells them who the candidates they can vote for are.
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The other day I was listening to a US radio station doing their daily "Today in History" spot. The date was October the 12th. I heard about some American ladies who got their pilot's licences, I heard about a US soldier who threw himself on a grenade in WWII and so on. There was one glaring omission, however, that I could not believe went unmentioned. See if you can guess what it was. |
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10-16-2004, 05:52 AM | #31 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: In the land of ice and snow.
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Mirevolver, i don't see how this is really that big of a deal. Our democracy is not being subverted. It seems to me like your issue with this is based on you personal idea of what is and is not acceptable behavior for a foreigner with respect to our national elections. It seems like an ettiquette issue to me, since they aren't actually breaking the law, or even acting unethically. Besides, just because you thought it to be in poor taste to comment on the elections of another country, doesn't mean that doing so is in poor taste under all circumstances. Especially in light of america's perpetual habit of attempting to influence the governance of myriad countries.
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10-16-2004, 05:56 AM | #32 (permalink) |
Beware the Mad Irish
Location: Wish I was on the N17...
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I find the whole concept amusing and in fact I'm humbled and quietly proud. I live in a country and in fact the actual state that would be the target of what I would consider to be an effort akin to a senoir high school project. Face it...if you get a letter/email or other correspondence from someone claiming to be from another country that asks you to consider voting for a particular candidate because that's who they would like to see get elected.......even being the cynical bastard that I am I have more faith in the electorate than that. No one worth their right to vote in this country would be influenced by such a contact. In fact I'd think an email like that would most likely be considered SPAM-O-La and get tossed out with the ads offering me the ability to regrow my hair. Even the most simple minded dumb ass who gets one of these and actually has the free time to waste reading it isn't going to be overtly influenced to vote for a candidate of preference for some spam-bot from another country. It's not happening....but I do find it amusing.
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10-16-2004, 06:18 AM | #33 (permalink) |
Minion of the scaléd ones
Location: Northeast Jesusland
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So what's the problem here?
It's not like England has invaded to take Bush out of power, as we did in Iraq. (They've pretty much given up on that route since 1812. Would that we had learned that lesson too.) They're just writing letters to plead with voters in a key state to remove a criminally incompetant leader. They aren't sending the SAS to kidnap him and haul him out of the country and into court as we did with Manuel Noriega and Slobodon Milosevic. They aren't sending assassins, as we did with Manuel Allende and... who was that fellow in charge of Iran before the Shah? They aren't trying to strangle us as in a fit of pique like we're trying to do to Cuba. All they are doing is informing people, politely, that they believe it would improve our country, their country, and the world at large if he would vote that jackass out of office. That leads to a more informed electorate, and there is no harm in that. Maybe they should be asking us not to elect him this time either. Does it make you angry that the rest of the world has an opinion of Dubya that's somewhere between toe fungus and Tammerlane? It's not like he hasn't earned it. Look, these people love America. We are, or were four years ago, anyway, the country every other country wanted to grow up to be. If your favorite Aunt had a wart the size of Wisconsin on her forehead, wouldn't you suggest that she go to the doctor and have it removed. Bush is that wart to the rest of the world. If you discount armed conflict (WWII) as protest, there has never been a world leader who inspired so many people to protest at once as Bush did. If you don't, he's second to the man who invokes Godwin. Fact, not comparison. Why wouldn't everyone in the world do everything they could to remove him from office? Look, I realize there are intelligent, well intentioned people - Art, for instance - who support Bush, I just can't seem to understand why, and I get the feeling that they don't get why I despise the man so much and believe his administration is a blot on this country's history. It sure seems to me that most of Europe feels that way too. If minds haven't met on this by now, they're not going to. Maybe Bush supporters can get get John Howard supporters to write letters from Australia. But, that's just my opinion. I respect that you might have another one. I just don't see how.
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10-16-2004, 09:46 AM | #35 (permalink) | ||
Inspired by the mind's eye.
Location: Between the darkness and the light.
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The difference here is that the American people, if they so choose to have the power to pick a new leader. And by interfering with that process, the Guardian is violating the sovereign rights of the United States. I doubt the British would be happy if next year we started sending letters to them telling them to reelect Tony Blair.
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Aside from my great plans to become the future dictator of the moon, I have little interest in political discussions. |
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10-16-2004, 09:48 AM | #36 (permalink) | |||
Still fighting it.
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You're either going to get people who look upon it as an unwelcome intrusion on their patriotism and disregard it, probably laughing at the sheer audacity of John Q Smith from Shitt Town, Greater Manchester as they do so. Or you're going to get people who read the letter, consider its contents and decide how well it fits with their own view, and if they care to take it seriously. Quote:
I would further argue that were you to feel personally aggrieved by the actions of my Prime Minister, I would give you the benefit of a hearing before I chose how to use my vote. That said, I think it very unlikely that you do, since his influence and power are much less than those of your president. Quote:
Fact is, nationalism has a very reduced role in today's society. We live in a globalised world, where people of all nationalities are able to communicate at the drop of a hat. Nationalism is appropriate in sport, science and invention, and about nothing else. Of course, Europeans should never be given an American vote, which would actually equate to what you describe as the power to 'influence' your electoral process. But as long as America is taking decisions that affect the citizens of Earth as a totality, your own dearly held ideals of democracy demand that you at least arm yourself of the broadest range of knowledge, information and experience that you can acquire before you take a decision on who runs your country. In my opinion, that involves taking account of everyone involved, American or not. |
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10-16-2004, 10:13 AM | #37 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: In the land of ice and snow.
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There is a difference between interfering with the process and talking to someone. How exactly are they violating the sovereignty of the united states by writing letters? I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous. Maybe you'd be happy if the government completely shut out any form of foreign media and limited our internet access only to sites originating inside the 50 states so as not to allow any "interference" until after the election. |
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10-16-2004, 10:38 AM | #38 (permalink) | |
Inspired by the mind's eye.
Location: Between the darkness and the light.
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__________________
Aside from my great plans to become the future dictator of the moon, I have little interest in political discussions. |
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10-16-2004, 10:56 AM | #39 (permalink) | |
Insane
Location: South London, UK
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You dont have a clue about the fear that having the IRA on your doorstep creates. This is an attitude that alot of people here in Britain cannot understand. This dismissal by people in the US of an issue that people in our country have had to deal with for decades. Just be careful with your throwaway comments. |
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10-16-2004, 10:59 AM | #40 (permalink) | |
Inspired by the mind's eye.
Location: Between the darkness and the light.
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__________________
Aside from my great plans to become the future dictator of the moon, I have little interest in political discussions. |
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american, british, infleuence, newspaper, vote |
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