jimbob

Good post. I might have got you wrong before.

I agree with the jealousy thing. If the terrorists really did "Hate our freedoms" as Bush still maintains then they'd have bombed Vegas, San Francisco and the Hamptons.
The fact they went after the sources (or at least the symbols) of what they probably consider to be abuses of financial, military and political power is the key.

jimbob

The Guardian has published some correspondance they recieved on the subject.

And as for the guy complaining we all have yellow teeth, it's because we are a socialist bunch at heart and still haven't got used to the privatised dental service. This used to be free but the taxes were cut so much that it couldn't be provided by the state any more. So our average man on the street saves a few thousand in tax and has to spend £15000 on dental care, or be yellow.
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/cash/...328984,00.html

We're not as bad Austin Powers though, and lots of people are going in for bleaching these days, even if it does destroy the enamel.

jimbob

Hey gringo! you forget Pancho Villa!
http://www.hsgng.org/pages/pancho.htm

roachboy

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselection...329858,00.html

i have to say that somewhere in my mind, i had held out hope that the responses from americans to this guardian initiative would not be cringe-inducing.
then i saw the above.
have a look.

the conservative reponses defy commentary...no more damning critique seems possible than to simply post them.

there are other responses as well,
but they do not serve to lessen the embarrassment generated by conservative "thinking" as expressed here.

it is as if the talking heads prominent in the swirl of mediocrity that is right media had undertaken a campaign the point of which was to demonstrate to the world that the americans really are a stupid and crass as you might suspect, were you do judge the whole country on the basis of george w bush.


way to go.

__________________
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spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

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DJ Happy

Oh how I laughed at the amount of responses telling Britain to "butt out and stop interfering." It's as if the Irony Fairy is having a party and the whole of conservative America is invited.

Enjoyed this response too: "Please be advised that I have forwarded this to the CIA and FBI." It's okay, don't worry - it'll be about 3 years before the two of them realise that they have both been sent the same letter.

The guy threatening the UK with invasion was pretty funny as well. Yee-ha Cowboy, and all that, don't you know?

And how often have we heard this lovely line: "If it wasn't for America, you'd all be speaking German." How original. I bet he spent hours thinking that one up.

Strangely enough, almost all the of the people telling the UK readers to "butt out" are pro-Bush (those that identified an allegiance anyway). Which is odd, as nowhere in the original article did the Guardian tell readers that they should be persuading people to vote for Kerry. Guilty conscience anyone?

And if only this happy contributor would offer this advice to his president instead of Guardian readers: "Go back to sipping your tea and leave our people alone."

This gentleman offers some sage advice too. Although I don't know who he'll scare more - the British, or Bush: "As a US citizen, I want to advise you that you and anyone that participates in subverting the US presidential election can be criminally charged and perhaps even charged as spies." He must be talking to Bush - unless he thinks the UK falls under the jurisdiction of US law.


Thanks for the chuckle everyone.

TheBrit

The guy who was shot was a soldier in NI. They are there.

For all the guys who can't figure out why people hate Americans and their culture, read the comments on the Guardian website. It's quite simple, a lot of those give the impression that Americans are rude, obnoxious bastards. I see American tourists every day, even in this country they aren't much more polite than the comments on that website.

And as for the whole invading part, that's probably the one characteristic that pisses me off most. You know, the whole "I'm gonna go to Iraq and kill me a Taliban" thing you've all heard the soldiers say on TV.

Lockjaw

And just as many of those quotes had people welcoming the outside comments. Listen if you want to look down upon a group of folks fine but if you are going to do it at least look at the OTHER side that some what mitigates the negative. That logic of you looking at that site and using it to justify that Americans are rude and obnoxious "bastards" is no different than John boy in Arkansas looking at serial footage of extremists in Islamic countries burning American flags and saying they are all evil. Or reading quotes from the random guy on the street in Europe calling them bastards and assuming that all the world hates America and becoming even more resentful to the outside world in general.

If you hadn't noticed this whole Americans are rude and pushy/Euros are all nosey and jealous know it alls is a viscious cycle.
American hears a European downing an American. American thinks Euros are all snotty. American acts pushy towards an unrelated Euro. Euro thinks all Americans are rude. Euro gets condescending to American. American thinks all Euros are know it alls. So on and so forth. At least temper your venom against America SOME what especially when evidence to the contrary is readily available on the self same link you are going off about.

slimsam1

We're all part of one world.

I think that every citizen of the world should have the right to send a letter with their opinions to another world citizen, whether the context is local to the recipient or more on a global scale (and this election is a global concern). I do not see this affecting the results of the electoral college for Ohio, but I believe that if it does, then I also see the letters making some very good points so as to sway the voters. If this is the case -- if the letters make persuasive, rational arguments -- then I bet the voters who changed their vote would be grateful for the insight they gained.

Foreign Bush supporters have the right to send letters as well.

When we limit communication, we limit liberty. That goes for the US and the world as a whole.

TheBrit

Lockjaw, I don't see it as labelling all Americans. I didn't put it forwards that I think all Americans are rude but I presented that you can see why people think that, given the quotes on that website.
Personally, I'll give everybody a chance. You see like an alright guy, as do a lot of Americans I've met. Unfortunately, some don't.

water_boy1999

With all due respect mirevolver, I think a lot of other countries dislike the U.S. for this very reason. The fact that many Americans, as well as some of our leadership, doesn't take into consideration the livelihood the rest of the world. You mentioned Sept. 11th as a pivitol point in the decision to go to war and that other countries shouldn't compare themselves to us unless they go through what we do: well, there were plenty more people from other countries that died that day. In addition, Americans are not the only people having beheadings by extremist terrorist groups. The decisions that our president has to face are NOT only U.S. issues, but issues that the entire world has to live by. We should be setting an example, not ostracizing ourselves from everyone else because we think our problems supercede everyone elses. Therefore, I don't mind someone else writing a letter to me to help me better understand how the decisions my county makes will affect the way they live their life.

In fact, I wish more people from around the world would create a much larger letter writing campaign to help educate our fellow Americans. Then, it will help people to make educated and informative decisions when it comes to voting instead of self-serving decisions that affect only themselves. Perhaps when some Americans start pulling their heads out from their butts, will the rest of the world begin to appreciate what we are doing over here. My 2 cents....

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KMA-628

I think it is all moot.

The majority of Americans have made up their minds, one way or another.

I really don't think the direction an "undecided" will vote will hinge on a letter or email from someone in another country. It isn't personal enough to sway a vote.

Let them write all the letters they want, I highly doubt it will affect any outcome here in the states.

rlib55

While I can appreciate the opinions of those who find the idea of foreign nationals contacting US voters in a key state appalling, I assure you that it will have no effect on the current election.

If the Democratic and Republican jauggernautic machines are unable to effectively persuade the populace of said states with the $400 million that they have on the books for campaigning in this election, a Belgian dairy farmer's e-mail is not going to ruin our democratic process.

In addition, the recipeints e-mail filter, whether it be software or cerebrally based, will most likely pick it up as spam.

Just my humble opinion...

mirevolver

These terrorists hate all things western and even a blind person can see that they will continue to kill regardless of who is in office.

__________________
Aside from my great plans to become the future dictator of the moon, I have little interest in political discussions.

mirevolver

It seems to me that all of you who agree with the letter writing campaign say that people of every country should try to sway the vote of every other country and let sovereignty be damned.

So perhaps next year we in the US should have a letter writing campaign to Britain and tell them that they should keep Tony Blair, he is after all a big supporter of the US. Or perhaps the next time Germany has an election we should write letters to them and tell them to oust Schroeder, any American who heard what he said the last time he was up for reelection would know that if he stays in office it's bad news for the US. It is also clear that the French President Chirac is one of the most anti-US leaders in Europe, so maybe we should write letters to the French during their next election telling them to get rid of him.

I can tell you exactly how all this would be received. The Europeans would see this as rude, obnoxious America meddeling in their internal affairs. But when it's the American election, they're all fine with it because in their eyes we don't know what's best for ourselves and so we must listen to the patronizing Europeans. Such a ridiculous and hypocritical double standard.

__________________
Aside from my great plans to become the future dictator of the moon, I have little interest in political discussions.

filtherton

It is sometimes fun to pretend we can predict what would happen in a hypothetical future.

DJ Happy

Every time you write something like this you make yourself look more and more like a hypocrite. The US has no problems meddling in the affairs of others, telling them what system of government they should have, arranging their "elections" for them and installing puppet regimes, but a few letters to you from your greatest historical ally voicing their concerns and you're foaming at the mouth.

I cannot tell you how much I am appreciating the irony of this.

Tell me about it...

mirevolver

Why don't you go back and read through my posts and answer one question I have. Have I even once endorsed the actions of the United States in meddeling with another country's electoral process?"

In truth, I am for a lesser US presence in the world. The US should start by completely pulling out of the UN and kicking them off of our land. Then begin a systematic pull out of our troops from countries where it is clear that our troops are not wanted, starting with Germany and South Korea.

And I believe the last time our "Greatest historical ally" treid telling us how to run our government, we started a little revolution and kicked those red coats off of our land.

__________________
Aside from my great plans to become the future dictator of the moon, I have little interest in political discussions.

d*d

can't we all just get along

DJ Happy

I've never seen you speak out against them and I have seen you attempt to justify the invasion of Iraq.

However, if you truly are against US international meddling, then great. Why didn't you say so sooner?

d*d

I don't like all this xenophobic secularism, if a country is in trouble - for whatever reason war, famine, flood why shouldn't countries able to help do so.

jimbob

Don't lecture us Brits on sovereignty - we invented the Nation State. If it weren't for us you'd all be an amorphous collective!


Ahh xenophobia. Such a lovely word, but a bit too Greek for me.

Lockjaw

France is writing letters now?

Wow.

daking

wow can you guess this guy is from texas?

Lockjaw

I'm from Texas.

hulk

Heh. This is funny. Heh. I'm more worried about that Bush puppet Howard getting complete control over our parliament from this last election, which was almost suspiciously in his favour. Hmm...

__________________
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mattevil

I can see they they would do this.The united states actions have some really far reaching effects. On the other hand if a letter from a complete stranger is the deciding factor in your vote that's kind of sad.

nottwood

Its still a free world, and the internet only proves how many idiots live in it.

jwoody

The Executive Editor of The Guardian Newspaper is an American named Albert Scardino, a Pulitzer prize-winning journalist. The letter writing campaign was his idea.

After some searching I found that he gave out 11,000 addresses of registered voters. I can't find any examples of of letters actually being sent to Clark County. I can't find any examples of people from Clark County recieving letters either, only letters from people in other parts of America writing to complain about or support the letter writing campaign.

My conclusion is that it was a very successful (over 1million hits per day) publicity stunt.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search

spindles

You are giving a lot of voters, nay PEOPLE, too much credit. I suspect an awful lot of voters don't read enough/listen enough/watch enough to have any clue which is the best way to vote (and before you all start about the America bashing, I mean anywhere in the world). People that choose their leaders based on a 2 minute snippet on the TV news need all the help they can get!

__________________
who hid my keyboard's PANIC button?

KMA-628

-BUMP

UK Guardian Raises White Flag - LINKY

dobster

Granted, this is a couple of days old now, but I haven't read this thread in a while.

mirevolver, this isn't true. You're generalising when its pretty important not too. Its clear you need to reread the thread too. To say what you say in this quote completely misses the point of the responses that people like me have given. To be honest I can't be arsed (bothered) to explain it again.

In fact, you should have just marked this thread: "I think this. Don't bother joining if you disagree, because you're wrong and I hold the only correct viewpoint, thanks."

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Aborted

Those responses were quite uh... startling. I for one would be interested to see what would happen if an American newspaper did something similar during the British election next year, I'm sure it would put a few things into perspective.