05-12-2004, 05:32 AM | #81 (permalink) | |
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What they did was the most vivid display of malice and ignorance, the most egregious act of indifference to human life I have ever heard of. There was no passion, there was no dissociation from the victim. He was right there in front of them, a person. I can't respond to that without anger just because it was predictable. You can give reasons why they did it, but no reason would ever ever justify taking an innocent life. We are all people. There is no differnce between groups of people other than the rules they abide by. The range of moral character is the same in any group. If it was socially acceptable to do so, I'm sure Americans would chop off the heads of iraqis. Last edited by noahfor; 05-12-2004 at 05:40 AM.. |
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05-12-2004, 05:44 AM | #82 (permalink) | |
Psycho
Location: the hills of aquafina.
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"The problem with quick and dirty, as some people have said, is that the dirty remains long after the quick has been forgotten" - Steve McConnell |
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05-12-2004, 07:27 AM | #83 (permalink) |
The Griffin
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i wouldn't call what the americans did to the insurgents as "torture" but more humliation - and in that their culture has been violated...
to use that as an exuse to excute another in retaliation is barbaric in western society - not theirs... to touch the breast of an arab woman is death... what the guards did should be punished to the fullest extent of the law - but remember, it's our law - not theirs... i do not agree with their methods of punishment but we have to remember where we are - in their country... as for the extremists - to see an american woman with a leash around an iraqi man's neck being treated like a dog is all they need to rally the "believers"... i wonder how that bitch lynndee england feels now... |
05-12-2004, 07:27 AM | #84 (permalink) |
Existentialist
Location: New York City
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Reading a post in another forum I frequent, someone made a good point. Why is it everything we do bad an "attrocity?" Whereas when the insurgents or whatnot do something horrible, it's only "retaliation?" Sounds like the media is playing it up for US to be the bad guys. I sometimes wonder whose side they are on. They're not reporting news, they're manufacturing opinions and propaganda. The truth is, they're all attrocities - why can't they just report it like that?
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05-12-2004, 07:30 AM | #85 (permalink) | |
Tilted Cat Head
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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05-12-2004, 07:33 AM | #86 (permalink) | |
Existentialist
Location: New York City
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I hate political correctness.... it changes the meaning of everything. I mean aren't *most* bombers homicide bombers? I don't see the reason to call suicide bombers homicide bombers. Does suicide imply something bad on the part of the bomber? Or any so worse than homicide?
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"Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened." - Dr. Seuss |
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05-12-2004, 07:46 AM | #87 (permalink) |
The Griffin
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during world war II, korea, and not so much in viet nam, news articles and photos were severly censored for security reasons...
but now because the media believes we the people have a right to know only leads to irresponsible reporting in a lot of cases - putting others in jeopardy... we are very naive believing what we see, read and hear - the media is manipulative adding the "color" to enhance their story... the guy that blew the whistle may have been irresponsible in reporting the prison abuse to the wrong person... the person that reported the prison abuse to the media may have been irresponsible... the media may have been irresponsible in reporting the abuse to the public and not the government... the government may have been irresponsible in not having the proper authorities managing the prison in the first place... but when in rome do as the romans do |
05-12-2004, 08:00 AM | #88 (permalink) | |
The Pusher
Location: Edinburgh
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Instead of focusing on the death and destruction cause, 'suicide bomber' seems to focus on the one who did it, and ignore the damage. Lots of people think that's not where the focus should lie. I also tend to agree with it. Perhaps not with 'homicide bomber' but I do agree that using 'suicide bomber' does seem to focus on the person who commited the bombing. |
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05-12-2004, 08:06 AM | #89 (permalink) | |
Tilted Cat Head
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It's just like people to change the language into something silly. I do no DEPLANE to get off the plane, I don't PLANE to get one. I embark onto a plane. I disembark from the plane. call a spade a spade and stop dumbing it down is what i say.
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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05-12-2004, 08:06 AM | #90 (permalink) | |
Existentialist
Location: New York City
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"Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened." - Dr. Seuss |
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05-12-2004, 08:17 AM | #91 (permalink) | |
Insane
Location: Champaign, IL
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2: People don't get America shoved down their throats. People shove America down each other's throats. If they didn't want them there, nobody would have to work in the McDonalds and Coke and other manufacturing and chain stores worldwide, but they do. 3. We pull our troops out and stop terrorism? Cause it certainly seemed to work after our funding Al Qaeda during the fight against Russia in Afghanistan.
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What's the difference between you and a mallard with a cold? One's a sick duck...I can't remember how it ends, but your mother is a whore! |
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05-12-2004, 08:48 AM | #92 (permalink) | |
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The problem is the whole holy land deal. The palestinians could just all move somewhere else. I'm sure the earth can accomodate them considering they are probably 1/10000 of the population, but no they want the holy land, and we could just invite the israeli's over here and give the palestinians back their shit, but who's gonna move here when they've got the holy land. Tell you the truth I wish I had a piece of that sweet holy land. I'm sure I think just like a spoiled little American. |
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05-12-2004, 09:24 AM | #93 (permalink) |
Crazy
Location: The Desert Southwest
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I have read through the posts here, I have seen the video of Nick Berg. I have also come to a realization. These people need to be gone. The one thing that every American needs to realize is that Nick Berg is YOU. Given the chance, these cowardly motherfuckers would cut off your head. I thought that one of the worse things that I had ever seen was the events as they unfolded on 9/11…. was I wrong. The execution of this 26-year-old civilian made me realize that this is how these radical Islamic fundamentalists look at each and every one of us. This is what they would do to you, your mother, your father, your sister, anybody that means anything to you. Notice that I said “Radical Islam.”
So as you all pontificate about Saddam, WMD’s, how bad Bush is, whether or not we should be fighting this war, understand one thing, they are watching, reading, laughing, waiting and planning the next worst thing you will ever see. There is a big difference between our cause and theirs. We are looking for the next leaders of freedom in an oppressed country. They are looking for the next Nick Berg. |
05-12-2004, 09:26 AM | #94 (permalink) | |
Is In Love
Location: I'm workin' on it
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Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great. |
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05-12-2004, 09:40 AM | #95 (permalink) |
I change
Location: USA
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As for the necessity of viewing the documantary evidence of the crime, the reasons are the same for the existence of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, D.C. and similar Holocaust Museums in many other countries.
To my mind, it is crucial that we comprehend the event in it's starkest terms. ...lest we forget.
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create evolution |
05-12-2004, 09:42 AM | #96 (permalink) | |
The Northern Ward
Location: Columbus, Ohio
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"I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy |
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05-12-2004, 09:49 AM | #97 (permalink) | ||
Tilted Cat Head
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that is correct. And everytime I look out my living room window and do NOT see the WTC Towers, I rememeber. I will NEVER forget.
__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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05-12-2004, 09:54 AM | #98 (permalink) | |
Is In Love
Location: I'm workin' on it
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Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great. |
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05-12-2004, 10:00 AM | #99 (permalink) | |
Existentialist
Location: New York City
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"Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened." - Dr. Seuss |
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05-12-2004, 10:11 AM | #100 (permalink) |
Psycho
Location: Dallas, Texas
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I do believe this was a despicable act. I do feel for the victim's family and do not feel such an act was in anyway justified. I do however have a problem feeling a lot of sympathy for this guy. Why was he in Iraq? He wasn't in the military. No one ordered him to go there. He had a choice. He could have stayed in the United States but CHOSE to go to Iraq. He knew he was putting himself in harms way. You rolls the dice, you takes your chances. Unfortunately he lost big time. It was a tragedy, yes. But had he stayed home instead of trapesing off to a WAR-ZONE he would still be alive.
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Thousands of Monkeys, all screaming at once. Pulling God's finger. |
05-12-2004, 10:28 AM | #101 (permalink) | |
Existentialist
Location: New York City
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"Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened." - Dr. Seuss |
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05-12-2004, 11:29 AM | #102 (permalink) | |
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05-12-2004, 11:38 AM | #103 (permalink) | ||
Tilted Cat Head
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05-12-2004, 11:40 AM | #104 (permalink) | |
Is In Love
Location: I'm workin' on it
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__________________
Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great. |
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05-12-2004, 12:02 PM | #105 (permalink) | |
Crazy
Location: The Desert Southwest
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Like I stated earlier, these people want all of us dead, they want you dead. They dont need a reason. I am not attacking you personaly, I just think that you need to think about it before you state the he kust should have stayed home. Isolationism is not the answer. |
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05-12-2004, 12:04 PM | #106 (permalink) |
Junkie
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First of all, I haven't seen the video and don't plan on seeing it. I've read enough descriptions to know what goes on.
Although it pisses me off that this happened to this guy, he willingly went to Iraq as an opportunist. He knew that something like this could have happened to him. I'm not saying that it makes it right, but he wasn't some dude at a shopping mall who was kidnapped and beheaded. From a lot of what I've read (not just here, I'm not pointing fingers at anyone) and heard (mostly stupid talk radio garbage), Americans are trying to act like this makes the abuses we've dealt out during the war insignificant. Nothing could be further from the truth. A lot of people were effected by the imagry and sounds of the video. Compare that video to the scenes of marketplaces that were hit by stray missiles. Several missiles that WE launched did not hit their intended target and hit very public places full of innocents (much more innocent than they man who was beheaded since they were just going about life in their homeland). I'm sure that if we had a camera there right afterwards the scene would be much worse. Sure in the beheading case it was one person singled out and knew he was about to die, and the public places hit were "unintentional" but we fired the missiles knowing that it could happen. The end results are similar. People also commented about how sick it was that people cheered as the man's head was displayed. I'll counter by bringing up a vid that was posted on another thread (http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle5365.htm) in this vid (it's not graphic but it does show an Iraqi soldier being murdered) there is an Iraqi soldier laying face down, either wounded, surrendering, or both. One of our soldiers just shoots him and kills him (from a very safe distance). After he does, the camera pans over and the other soliders are all cheering. What is the difference? So it's cowardly to decapitate a man while covering your face but it's courageous to kill an equally defenseless man from a safe distance.... Of course, I get it. The Red Cross has been screaming about the abuse of the Iraqi prisoners since they got there. 25 Iraqi prisoners have died while in custody, currently there is no explanation. Suddenly, pics surface that confirm that we have been sexually and psychologically abusing prisoners and NOW we finally are taking actions to curb abuse? The pics have been in existence for several months. CBS sat on the pics till another news agency got them and was going to run with them and yet we're supposed to believe that our President and other senior officials had NO FUCKING IDEA any of this is happening? It seems more like we got caught with out pants down and are scrambling to make it seem like we give a fuck. People want to villify the "bad guys" a and act like our hands our clean. Our hands are just as dirty. The difference is that the enemy celebrates it while we act like we're sorry only when we get caught playing the same games. Last edited by kutulu; 05-12-2004 at 12:07 PM.. |
05-12-2004, 12:11 PM | #108 (permalink) | |
Loser
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we/the US/ Bush is doing what he has to do...what no other country has the nerve or resolve to do...what needs to be done to demonstrate that the US will not tolerate treachorous, cowardly and murderous acts on democracies simple because they support the right for jews to maintain soveriegn control over land that they have battled for control over since ancient times. i will reserve comment on the liberal statements that this video should not be viewed and that those who do view are sick and twisted. get on the bus called reality and shed your veil of ignorance...its a hard world...and one that is coming to our doorstep sooner than you think. open your eyes, form your opinion with the knowledge of how the real world works and what our enemies are capable of. get these warm fuzzy liberal visions of peace and a unified world of love and cute furry bunnies out of your head and into the garbage where they belong. and then get in line and stand behind the one man with the courage and power to protect us and our children from having our heads removed in the places where we sleep. -once again...i'm out Last edited by bigoldalphamale; 05-12-2004 at 12:17 PM.. |
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05-12-2004, 12:16 PM | #109 (permalink) | |
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05-12-2004, 12:22 PM | #111 (permalink) | |
Is In Love
Location: I'm workin' on it
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I much prefer the furry little bunnies, thank you very much. Who's that one man with the courage and power? Bush? I don't fucking think so. When he goes to Iraq and starts fighting, then I'll think he's couragous.
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Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great. |
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05-12-2004, 12:23 PM | #112 (permalink) |
Junkie
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I agree that to just get up and leave now would be a big mistake, but it doesn't make the war right. We never should have gone there in the first place and we'd be better off now if we hadn't gone into Iraq.
Bush and Co. have totally fucked this up. They should be removed from office. |
05-12-2004, 12:28 PM | #114 (permalink) | |
Loser
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05-12-2004, 12:30 PM | #115 (permalink) | |
Tilted Cat Head
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05-12-2004, 12:35 PM | #117 (permalink) | ||
Tilted Cat Head
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Location: Manhattan, NY
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this is from an entry I made in Art's journal Quote:
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05-12-2004, 12:36 PM | #118 (permalink) |
Is In Love
Location: I'm workin' on it
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So basically what we need to do is sit in a chair like A Clockwork Orange and play a loop of a man getting his head cut off? Only then will we truly understand?
That's bullshit.
__________________
Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great. |
05-12-2004, 12:41 PM | #119 (permalink) | |
Tilted Cat Head
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If you are a peace maker or warmonger, it may push you further into that and make you actually take action. what kind of action? I don't know for myself, I call up my representatives that tell them how I feel about this. I call Hillary's office at least once a month. I call Chuck Shumer's office too. It made me get MORE involved in the democratic process.
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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05-12-2004, 12:42 PM | #120 (permalink) |
Crazy
Location: The Desert Southwest
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Okay, I am out of here. I made my points, others have made theirs. Either you believe or you dont. You think this is a just war or you dont, you think that it is Americas fault or you think it is someone elses fault. This board, politicians, the media will not change your mind, your mind will only bend the way you lean. Just do me one favor, dont lean so far one way or the other that you fall on your ass and take someone else with you.
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american, beheaded, complete, iraqi, thread |
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