05-12-2004, 12:42 PM | #121 (permalink) |
Junkie
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I know exactly what you mean. Our typical war coverage is soldiers shooting (you don't see people get hit) and images that look like an Atari 2500 video game.
My point is that there are a lot of people who after seeing the video or getting descriptions of the video they say that they are reaffirmed in their belief that we are right and our opponents are animals. The truth is that we are displaying the same animalistic traits. |
05-12-2004, 12:48 PM | #122 (permalink) |
I change
Location: USA
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What is particularly significant in that video, IMO, is the way the killers kept shouting "God is Great" in their native tongue, while carrying on their dull-knife butchery and the victim's screams filled the room. There are some details that do make a difference. Perhaps a complete verbal blow-by-blow description might be somewhat comparable to experiencing the document itself. But there's not much, if any, of that available either.
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create evolution |
05-12-2004, 01:08 PM | #123 (permalink) | |
Misanthropic
Location: Ohio! yay!
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Or just ignor this post, I had a point, but I think it might have gotten lost in my rambling ...
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Crack, you and I are long overdue for a vicious bout of mansex. ~Halx |
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05-12-2004, 01:09 PM | #124 (permalink) | |
Junkie
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You can't refute my points and would rather think that we're still fighting the moral war so you say that my post is childish? Ever since this happened, I've been listening to conservative crap that our enemies are the evil ones and we're just trying to win the war. The abuse, the mysterious deaths, and the vid link of the soldier shooting a defenseless man on the ground (and afterward our "honorable" soldiers cheering) show that we are not on some higher level than the enemy. We are on the same level. The only difference is that they embrace it and we care only when we get caught. The abuse was not new. We've been talking about it, but never had irrefutable proof that it was going on. There was an investigation, but until the photos came out, so significant action had been taken. Suddenly the press runs the photos and magically we have a soldier being court martialed and several people have been relieved from duty and sent home. Should we think it's just a coinscidence that these things happened RIGHT after the abuse was shoved in our faces or does it seem like things only happened so quickly because they were caught with their pants down? |
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05-12-2004, 01:13 PM | #125 (permalink) | |
pow!
Location: NorCal
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It's funny how this thread started out with people crying out against those intollerant fanatics who would do us harm, and has degenerated to the point of suggesting an intollerant, fanatical terrorist act against Americans. Maybe we are our own worst enemy after all. I am disgusted. I think I'll stop now, before I write something that would get me banned.
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Ass, gas or grass. Nobody rides for free. |
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05-12-2004, 01:35 PM | #126 (permalink) | |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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But there has come to a point where there's been some sort of action/reaction which has been escalating since the end of WWII. This isn't Bush's fault, it's his reaction to it, and that may be his fault, but the terrorism isn't his fault, and the next evil Presidents to come, it will be the same thing, living in the legacy of the creation of a Zionist state surrounded by the Arab states. |
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05-12-2004, 01:59 PM | #127 (permalink) | |
Loser
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Last edited by bigoldalphamale; 05-12-2004 at 02:01 PM.. |
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05-12-2004, 02:06 PM | #128 (permalink) | |
Junkie
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05-12-2004, 02:27 PM | #129 (permalink) | |
Junk
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" In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard. |
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05-12-2004, 03:31 PM | #130 (permalink) |
Addict
Location: watching from the treeline
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I'm not sure why people keep talking about the video of the Iraqi soldier being shot in the street as though it was wrong.
We don't know what led up to the shooting. Perhaps he was doing something that he deserved to be shot for. Yes, he was on the ground and LOOKED defenseless, but I'd be damned if I'm going to leave cover to give a handjob to a wounded terrorist. |
05-12-2004, 04:07 PM | #131 (permalink) |
Cherry-pickin' devil's advocate
Location: Los Angeles
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bigoldalphamale
i dont even know what to say its pretty clear you can't take OTHER people's opinions and prefer to kill other Americans? great, criticizing terrorists when you want the same thing? what makes you any different by wanting to bomb another person just because he's different? Its not Love it or Leave it. It's love it all or don't love it at all. What the fuck has America become within its own country? It's not so much about race anymore but about political ideology? This entire world is going fucking nuts As for crackprogram: On a sense I agree that they may never leave us alone forever. But my question is the same as what you posed as a question - its WHY they dislike us enough to kill us. For over 150 years in our history, they didn't give a shit. This wasn't a problem until the 1970's really and those decades were really when we got involved in affairs which at times we didn't need to be involved in. Its a question worth asking - WHY do they dislike us when after a century, they didn't. Last edited by Zeld2.0; 05-12-2004 at 04:09 PM.. |
05-12-2004, 06:17 PM | #132 (permalink) | |
Loser
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and because you cant read it cant fault you for not knowing that radical islamafascist doctrine promulgates violence on any nation the mixes or supports zion in anyway. because we treat jews as equals and support thier causes domestically and abroad (not necessarily exclusively as it relates to israel) we are a target for terrorist attacks regardless of any isolationist policy we could concievably implement. i will go back to my tilted motors and sports where the majority of posters are educated about the topics which they post on. thanks for coming out though chief. Last edited by bigoldalphamale; 05-12-2004 at 06:31 PM.. |
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05-12-2004, 06:21 PM | #133 (permalink) | |
Cherry-pickin' devil's advocate
Location: Los Angeles
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Last edited by Zeld2.0; 05-12-2004 at 06:24 PM.. |
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05-12-2004, 06:37 PM | #137 (permalink) |
Illusionary
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The above posts (while entertaining) are a prime example of why people get banned.
There is no acceptable reason for this kind of childish retaliation. ********no acceptable reason********* I cannot even tell you how many times I have had to abandon a thread to avoid this kind of mistake. It is easier to walk away, with some form of respect intact. Spankings all around seem in order for all the nasty children.
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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha |
05-12-2004, 06:44 PM | #138 (permalink) | |
Loser
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05-12-2004, 06:51 PM | #139 (permalink) |
Cherry-pickin' devil's advocate
Location: Los Angeles
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bad information? breeds ignorance? some kid?
whoa there one second - since when did you decide information was good or bad? because it doesn't agree with you? thanks but no thanks you realize who is sounding more ignorant? metaphor or not when one gives an example of bombing anyone, what does that sound to others? civil discussion are great but when people bring up insane comments, it drives me nuts |
05-12-2004, 07:12 PM | #140 (permalink) | |
Loser
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'For over 150 years in our history, they didn't give a shit. This wasn't a problem until the 1970's really and those decades were really when we got involved in affairs which at times we didn't need to be involved in.' this is your 'information' and it is bad. it is incorrect and inaccurate, and ultimately...bad. maybe even...ignorant? i offer a wholesale apology to this thread for hijacking it with this nonsense. i also offer my apology for trying to bring accurate, factual, and relevant information. it is obviously not welcome here. |
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05-12-2004, 07:17 PM | #141 (permalink) |
Cherry-pickin' devil's advocate
Location: Los Angeles
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thanks sarcasm?
prove it wrong then America as a nation was not greatly threatened by Arabs, Muslims, or whatever in that sort in the first 150 years of our history The explosion of what we call modern terrorism really began late 60's through 70s and on Prove that we've been the victims of bombings based upon the jihad Your arguments are welcome but if you're going to dismiss others and insult then criticize without bringing your own proof, then you've got a job to do. |
05-12-2004, 07:23 PM | #142 (permalink) |
The Matrix had a point...
Moderator Emeritus
Location: 10th Mountain ASB Fort Drum, N.Y.
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Everyone, let please welcome the FIRST and (hopefully) the LAST ever in TFP's history: *A TIME-OUT*
(too many good people on this thread, so if I can't ban the goose without the gander....) I am not going to close this thread because I think everyone from this point on, can reply rationally to it. Keep those emotions in check and stick to thread topic.
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I'd hit that so hard whoever could pull me out would become King of England! |
05-12-2004, 07:48 PM | #143 (permalink) |
Upright
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Fuck it!!!!! pull out our troops and change the climate there to 1000 degrees via atomic weapons. Send them back to the pre stone-age.
This event pissed me off like no other in recent memory. Know what pisses me off even more? The fact that at a time when we should be UNITED as a people there are political antics, name calling, partisan bullshit, cry baby, excuse mongering, puke in your underwear non-sense galore. WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!! This isnt going away and it will never get easier. Stop the bickering and bullshit and lets take care of business. Old but it still applies "United we stand, divided we fall" My fellow Americans..... we are starting to fall. /rant off |
05-12-2004, 08:07 PM | #144 (permalink) |
Knight of the Old Republic
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
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Best. Thread. Ever.
There's people on other forums saying that this video is gonna cause World War 3. This video is creating quite a stir! -Lasereth
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"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert |
05-12-2004, 08:54 PM | #145 (permalink) |
BFG Builder
Location: University of Maryland
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I watched the video, and I have a few comments:
The reason people can do things like this is because they do not view the victim as an equal human being. To his murderers Nick Berg was a political statement, not a human being. The same applies to the American who killed the wounded Iraqi soldier; his opponent was the enemy. The fact of the matter is that cruelty will happen on both sides of any engagement. People will use this video as a rallying cry for both Iraqi resistance and an American drive to crush that resistance. To those who suggest we pull out, consider what that would do to the Iraqi people. Rebellion would splinter the country into territories ruled by warlords, and the civilian population would be decimated by civil war. The fact of the matter is that our country has a responsibility to end the job we have started, and restore peace to a country that we have brought to war. Our reasons for entering this war are now irrelevant; what matters is how we finish. I fear that the current administration has not completely covered that end.
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If ignorance is bliss, you must be having an orgasm. |
05-12-2004, 09:06 PM | #146 (permalink) | |
Fluxing wildly...
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Maybe the U.S. government was thinking too much about winning the war (against the Iraqi army) when they should have been thinking about anti-Insurgency measures.
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flux (n.) Medicine. The discharge of large quantities of fluid material from the body, especially the discharge of watery feces from the intestines. |
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05-12-2004, 09:16 PM | #147 (permalink) |
Crazy
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So everybody agrees it's a tragedy that this happened, but I haven't seen anyone mention the <I>REAL</I> tragedy.
Nick Berg was supposed to head back to America in late March. En route to his destination, he was detained by Iraqi police in Mosul, and handed over to AMERICAN forces. Our forces held Mr. Berg for 13 days, without giving him a reason for WHY he was being detained, nor giving him access to his lawyer. He was finally released when his parents in America found out he was being detained without reason & took it to court. Mr. Berg was released and went back on his way. Unfortunately, he was kidnapped by the terrorists shortly after. Had our forces not detained him without reason, and provided him access to a lawyer, PER HIS RIGHTS, none of this would have happened. Obviously the Bush administration doesn't give a flying fuck about democracy or human rights & this is a perfect example of what happens when these things are ignored.
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I'm melting down your 20 inch rims to build 5 foot plates for the shins of my 30 foot android. |
05-12-2004, 09:27 PM | #148 (permalink) | |
Fluxing wildly...
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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flux (n.) Medicine. The discharge of large quantities of fluid material from the body, especially the discharge of watery feces from the intestines. |
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05-12-2004, 09:35 PM | #149 (permalink) | ||||
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Your attitude is disproportionate to your ability to deliver solid debate. When every point you try to make degrades into sarcastic jibes, it dilutes the value of any arguement you might have had when you started writing. You're not debating anything anyway. You're making a mockery of this serious discussion with your misplaced rhetoric. Must I remind anyone that a man was brutally murdered- that his head was cut off with a knife while he was alive and fully conscious? Quote:
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05-12-2004, 09:48 PM | #150 (permalink) | |
Psycho
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It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. Dr. Viktor E. Frankl |
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05-12-2004, 11:45 PM | #151 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: Oz
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LOL. Buddah tells everyone to cool it down a bit and the first post following is a "Fuck it, lets nuke em" post. Entertaining reading i can tell you. Seriously though, this video is sickening. Humans doing this to each other is barbaric. In fact war, and the way this conflict is heading is deplorable. Every single human life should be treated with the same respect. One person shouldnt be more recognised and revered just because he or she is white. Quite obviously, the whole affair is creating terrorists, not stopping them. Comments about nukeing the whole area really amaze me. I mean, we can have so much compassion for this poor dude who got beheaded, but zero for the faceless brown multitudes of forign human beings (women, children etc).
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'And it's been a long December and there's reason to believe Maybe this year will be better than the last I can't remember all the times I tried to tell my myself To hold on to these moments as they pass' |
05-13-2004, 05:37 AM | #152 (permalink) | ||||
Upright
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I do agree with your statement except when someone proves through their own heinous actions they are not worthy of anything less then death. Quote:
Terrorism will never be stopped. It can however be managed or minimized. It’s in the US best interest to fight terrorism head on anywhere but within our borders. Quote:
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05-13-2004, 05:40 AM | #153 (permalink) |
Loser
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"You're making a mockery of this serious discussion with your misplaced rhetoric."
you're unbelievable. reread the entire thread please, before you go spouting off some horseshit like that. myself and about two other posters here are the only ones who have made any kind of attempt to present FACTS. the mockery is in the comments where someone says that anyone who wants to view this video is sick. that's making a mockery of this discussion. someone comes into this thread and wants to talk about the beheading without having seen the video, in all of its dispicable humanity and tries to proport to those who have viewed it...that they 'understand' or 'can just picture it' ... NO YOU DONT and NO YOU CANT. this mode of thinking is the same thing that permits those same people who have no understanding of world history, religion, or politics to come into this same thread and start talking about throwing Bush out of office because he has no idea what he is doing. here's the hint for those people: you're the ones without a clue! terrorism on american soil is not the only thing we are working to prevent...we are working to protect free people all over the globe from radical islamic militant murderers. bringing the soldiers home and returning to diplomatic negotiations with guys who strap bombs to thier chests is a great idea!!! "psssst. its a great idea to leave the terrorists with millions of square miles in the middle east to use as headquarters from which to launch thier murderous operations on western civilization. and we never set foot there again, we're safe! pass it on!" this is what you want going around? then i am happy to be the asshole to come here and tell you all that you're wrong. well you're more than just wrong...but we'll leave it at that. |
05-13-2004, 05:48 AM | #154 (permalink) |
Knight of the Old Republic
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
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It's not your views that people don't like. It's the fact that you're being rude. Everyone can express their opinion here, and all the better if you can back it up with facts: but don't be so fuckin rude!
-Lasereth
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"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert |
05-13-2004, 06:46 AM | #156 (permalink) | |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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05-13-2004, 09:08 AM | #157 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
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Look, this video has done exactly what the terrorists wanted it to do: play on our emotions. When you let your emotions rule you, common sense goes out the window. That is exactly why most people shouldn't watch the video. Most people in this country are way too tied to their emotions. Thousands of people are murdered for reasons much more stupid than this every year by our people. Where's the outrage about that? Why is the death of a guy who didn't have the common sense to get the fuck out of that country any worse than any other death from the war? Quote:
Our current approach to the War on Terror is wastefull, both monitarily and in the lives that are lost. Don't fool yourself into thinking that we can just kill enough and the rest will be too afraid to attack us again. Also don't fool yourself into thinking that our enemies are foolish or cowards. They are fighting an effective war. I'm not saying I know what we should be doing. I don't know. It still doesn't mean that I can't see that we are getting nowhere with our current approach. |
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05-13-2004, 09:19 AM | #158 (permalink) | ||
Upright
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kutulu
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"That was my first thought in response to this. Truely not the way to go about resolving the problem however, my frustration level had peaked at that moment." Originally posted by kutulu Quote:
Last edited by fypon; 05-13-2004 at 09:34 AM.. |
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05-13-2004, 09:26 AM | #159 (permalink) | |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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05-13-2004, 09:53 AM | #160 (permalink) | |
BFG Builder
Location: University of Maryland
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From a purely strategic standpoint, that wouldn't work here. There is no central authority (that I know of) governing the insurrection, and individual cells are unlikely to lay down arms just because America uses bigger bombs. What we need to do is win the hearts of the people. A population that is angry at us will harbor resistance fighters and mask them from our soldiers, making our job harder. This also results in gross acts of stupidy such as the prison abuse incident, which further stoke the civilian population and causes a spiraling cycle that gets worse over time. I don't know the situation very well beyond what I hear in the news, but I almost feel as if America needs to apologize and open themselves up to the UN. Push for truly international support and oversight. Accept that we made a mess of things, apologize to the international community for being so antagonistic, and request they aid the US in rebuilding Iraq properly. Once again, I do not see our current administration doing this. In fact, I wonder if there is ANY administration capable of performing such an act.
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If ignorance is bliss, you must be having an orgasm. |
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american, beheaded, complete, iraqi, thread |
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