Micheal Jackson is going down - is this a good thing? - Page 3 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

taog · 11-20-2003, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JoenOcoee
First off, I work for a large mental health company and before this I taught problem kids of all kinds, and I have to shout out loud once again, "WHAT DIP-SHIT UNDESERVING MORALY DELINQUINT PARENTS WOULD ALLOW THIER CHILD TO BE ALONE WITH JACKSON? I feel as though the parents of the abused kids should be brought up on child endangerment charges. If a parent wanted to take thier family to Neverland and hang out for a day, great. But to let your kid get into a bed with any adult outside of your most immediate family is unexcusable.

Secondly, when people use MJ's upbringing to defend his actions, they are enabling him. He has never been held accountable for his actions. I do not believe that Michael's upbringing in the late 60's and early 70's was remotely as 'horriffic' as it is portrayed. Why don't any of MJ's siblings display the same deviant behavior patterns? How can people allow MJ's 10 years of estranged childhood outweigh 30 years of adult actions?

Lastly, I must confess that a part of me feels God Awful bad/sorry/??? for Jackson. He's a guy that has such severe identity issuses that he literaly had a new body built for himself. He hasn't had a truly private moment in over 20 years. I doubt he has meet more than a handful of people in 20 years who have not either hated him or worshiped him. And as of Yesterday the ability for him to have a fair and speedy trial vanished.

In the end, this whole Jackson fiasco will waste thousands of hours and millions of dollars for all envolved.

I'm not saying that jacksons actions aren't partially his own fault, and i'm not really blaming it all on his childhood, but he did have a fucked up childhood. Moreso than the other kids. Why?, you ask.. because he was the youngest of the kids in the jackson 5.

He was Michael Jackson of the Jackson 5. He started with the jackson 5 when he was like 6 years old. He never had any friends when he was a kid. He didn't live a normal childhood like most people do. He did live a messed up weird twisted childhood. He was also the most known and loved member of the jackson 5.

All he wants now is to be a child again, thus the reason why he created neverland. He wasn't allowed to have a childhood, and when he was able to and not in control of his father, who could he trust? Who was he able to be friends with?

He had millions of dollars, only thought of music, lived in a house that is probably bigger than anyones houses on this board, and lived with a garaff, tiger and a monkey as his best friends. This was at 16, so obviously you could tell that he felt that he missed out on something at that age, and he's probably been feeling that way ever since.

I'm just saying that this is maybe why he's weird now, but in no way does this defend him for his actioins of he did some sick twisted shit though.

Also, i'm just wondering where you got this '30 years of adult action' and where it comes from?

To my knowledge, and from what i remember, the media and people in society started picking on MJ right when he started changing his image. Before that he was looked upon as a person who was loving, giving and full hearted. Every person who knows him sees this side of him, and tells people this, but no one listens.

I guess what i am asking is, what deviant behaviour patterns? And what actions has he had to be accountable for? All he has done is take some kids under his wing. At first it was viewed as a nice guy who is known and loved worldwide helping out some kids in need. Once he started changing what he looked like, it was 'now he's a sick guy who molests people'. Other than that, what actions? All he ever wanted was to help people!!! I just don't understand what actions he needs to be accountable for, and how you would know about these other actions and why you think that he wasn't punnished for anything that he did 'wrong'.

I do agree that jackson has some severe identity issuses. I think society just needs to put something on jackson to explain why he's so weird. People would me more at ease with why he's so weird if he is convicted of this.

So many things have blinded our eyes from who michael jackson is, and it's all because of the media and plastic surgery.

I suggest that everyone go back and watch some videos, and some interviews and things like that about/with michael jackson before all of this bullshit and come back and tell us what you think. Listen to his songs and come back and tell us what you think. The media is playing a huge role on a lot of things here.

Also, JoenOcoee, you are right. The only dipshits that would allow their kids to be alone with jackson are people who view him as family. However, if he is convicted and actually guilty, i agree, those parents probably have some problems. I honestly think it's just the fact that they view him as family. If he were as sick as the media is saying, all these other kids whom he 'molested' would come forward and say something. Why does someone come forward only every 10 years?

fuzzix · 11-20-2003, 03:21 AM

I really don't know what to think. The man is obviously completely nuts, of course that doesn't make him a paedophile... I can't say I've ever been a fan, but it's been sad to see MJ deteriorate to such a state. If he really has committed sex crimes then I hope he's punished (8 years seems far too lenient for child sexual abuse), but perhaps he hasn't, people will do anything for money so I wouldn't be surprised if it were those that were making the complaint who were guilty, time will tell I suppose...

oberon · 11-20-2003, 06:50 AM

I never had any respect for Michael Jackson. The fool fucked himself up, as far as I'm concerned. "King of Pop" my ass.

He should get a fair trial, and he should go to jail if convicted.

remiel · 11-20-2003, 07:33 AM

I'm waiting to hear what the result is.

Jackson is, in my mind, a very strange and damaged human being. I have reason to at least strongly suspect that he has interfered sexually with children before.

If he is found guilty in this case, I hope he goes to jail for a very long time.

Sadly, he's rich, and therefore will get the best justice money can buy.

I'm not going to say he did it or he didn't, because I don't know, but I'm glad this case is being taken seriously.

jwoody · 11-20-2003, 08:28 AM

I believe all are innocent until proven guilty. Unless they are guilty of course in which case they are not innocent.

Cynthetiq · 11-20-2003, 08:30 AM

If he was a NAMBLA member would it make it alright???

Bloodslick · 11-20-2003, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JoenOcoee
Why don't any of MJ's siblings display the same deviant behavior patterns?

I can't believe I had to edit out the rest of your post to get that one statement. Mainly because my response is this:

Have you ever heard about or seen any of the other Jacksons (ie Latoya or Tito)? Haven't you noticed the many complete personality transformations Janet Jackson has gone through? Don't you think there's a reason that, as adults, the Jacksons have never managed to stay together as a group through an entire album recording and its following tour? I guess that my last question sums up the previous ones: what hole do you live in?

water_boy1999 · 11-20-2003, 09:41 AM

A few thoughts on this situation. I feel saddened that it is happening to someone I used to have a lot of respect for. I mean, I used to like quite a few of his songs and music videos. I think a majority of you who have posted have liked a song or two of his.

I think a lot of you are also condemning him before he is proven guilty. This reminds me a little of people who are racist, homophobic, etc....they immediately disassociate themselves with things they are scared of or things they don't understand. A lot of you are scared of the fact that he is odd and lives a very ecclectic lifestyle. You condemn him regardless if he is guilty or innocent.

Michael never had a "real" childhood. From the start, his life has always been manipulated by someone else. Can you really blame him for being child like now? He is living out what he never had the opportunity to do when he was a child. So, when he says he has kids over for sleep overs, I "want" to think that it is purely innocent and he is just living out his childhood fantasies because he never had the opportunity to do so before. On the other hand, if he truly did do something to those kids and the accusations are not some way to extort millions from him again, then he should suffer the ultimate consequences for his actions.

In short, I could go both ways on this argument. Either way, I am saddened by it.

skysooner · 11-20-2003, 11:01 AM

Michael Jackson's money got him off the first time. I doubt it will this time. Pedophiles are generally not cured. He needs to be put away if the allegations are proven true.

Dano069 · 11-20-2003, 11:25 AM

Has he turned himself in yet? Or is he getting plastic surgery done on his asshole to make entry easier?

Jdoe · 11-20-2003, 11:59 AM

I have heard there might be a new law in California that doesn't allow someone who has settled once to settle again. I have no idea if this is true, pure romour. Does anyone out there know for sure?

Jdoe

GakFace · 11-20-2003, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jdoe
I have heard there might be a new law in California that doesn't allow someone who has settled once to settle again. I have no idea if this is true, pure romour. Does anyone out there know for sure?

Jdoe

Um... This is an ENTIRELY different case... So he could technically settle.. simply because it wouldn't be AGAIN.. that was a different time, different case. I don't know how you could pull that off. That means if you're in a car wreck and you sue, you decide not to settle because you might only get 2 grand out of it... and then you're completely ruining your chance later in life where you could settle for more. Catch my drift?

Quote:

Originally posted by Dano069
Has he turned himself in yet? Or is he getting plastic surgery done on his asshole to make entry easier?

I'm completely ignoring this. Some people convicted.. you just posted something all out rude.

Quote:

Originally posted by skysooner
Michael Jackson's money got him off the first time. I doubt it will this time. Pedophiles are generally not cured. He needs to be put away if the allegations are proven true.

Ok... 2 more cents from me. Now picture this.. There is a big trial trying to convict you of something you did not do. Oh, lets also point out the the opposing lawyer is doing a decent job BSing your way into prison. Now.. You don't want to go to prison because you are innocent. Well you could always just do a settlement. Also as someone else said, Trials are a waste of money and time.. better to get on with your life than to waste it day after day with a trial.

Many people say, "Money Talks." Yes, this is true, but WHAT the money speaks for isn't always known. Just because you give someone 5 bucks to shut up because he's calling you gay, doesn't mean you're gay, it might just be because you want him to shut the hell up. (which sadly might have been why he was calling you gay in the first place.)

gwr_gwir · 11-21-2003, 01:46 AM

mm. self, I tend to go with this: http://www.msnbc.com/news/995303.asp
as opinion.

onetime2 · 11-21-2003, 05:01 AM

I don't believe he's guilty. He's damned weird but I don't believe he could/would do what they say he did. He's supposedly this big germaphobe and yet he'll masturbate a kid?

He's been accused twice. He's forty something years old, and has been hanging out with kids for the last 30 years, why are there no other accusations? Quite the opposite happened around the first case with other kids coming out and saying nothing inappropriate ever happened.

I have doubts about the first case because the parents and the "victim" settled. I agree with others who said they would want to see the bastard that did that to my child punished beyond just monetarily. I mean, how could I go on without giving my kid some legal closure to it? Yeah, I know some will say they didn't want to put their kid through a trial, but rather you'll put them through the rest of their life without having fought back against the abuser?

The prosecutor in the case is the same guy from the first trial. He's supposedly known for holding grudges. The raid was timed to coincide with Jackson's latest album release. Accident? I say probably not (especially since MJ allegedly wrote a song about the DA on the HIStory album).

I think MJ will be vindicated and this case will be shown to be a fraud.

ubertuber · 11-21-2003, 06:24 AM

Well, settlement isn't even an option this time. He will be facing criminal charges, not civil. What happened last time is that he was facing civil charges and got a settlement with the victim's family. The law did not allow the state to prosecute without the victim's (now lacking) cooperation. They have since changed that law, and can press charges with or without the victim's cooperation. Anyway, I don't think you can settle with the government in a criminal case, just plea bargain.

onetime2 · 11-21-2003, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ubertuber
Well, settlement isn't even an option this time. He will be facing criminal charges, not civil. What happened last time is that he was facing civil charges and got a settlement with the victim's family. The law did not allow the state to prosecute without the victim's (now lacking) cooperation. They have since changed that law, and can press charges with or without the victim's cooperation. Anyway, I don't think you can settle with the government in a criminal case, just plea bargain.

Actually, last time he was facing criminal charges. The law made it impossible for them to go forward without the victim's cooperation. The $10MM payment insured the victim did not cooperate.

It is possible that MJ can pull off a similar pay off. The prosecution would have a more difficult time with the case if the victim is uncooperative or unavailable for testimony. I don't believe he will do this since he got crucified over the last payoff. This is gonna be a battle, I think.

Averett · 11-21-2003, 06:34 AM

After the first accusations Jackson should have learned better. Sure, have kids around you. But never ever be alone with them. Why put yourself in the situation to be accused again? Guilty or not, he should have learned his lesson the first time.

onetime2 · 11-21-2003, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Averett
After the first accusations Jackson should have learned better. Sure, have kids around you. But never ever be alone with them. Why put yourself in the situation to be accused again? Guilty or not, he should have learned his lesson the first time.

Definitely agree. Of course, I could see him being easily manipulated once someone gained his trust. Something just seems very suspicious in the story. Cancer patient meets MJ, MJ covers all medical bills, kid goes into remission, family moves in with MJ, and suddenly an abuse allegation. There was a mention about the husband and wife being divorced and the husband being abusive. Not sure if that is a primary or secondary factor in this whole mess, but it adds a little bit of background to it.

Liquor Dealer · 11-21-2003, 09:06 AM

I don't think at this point it really matters - his money is what has kept him out of trouble and this will probably end all of his sources of income. He supposedly owns a lot of music rights that are worth in the neighborhood of $ 250 mil (nice neighborhood) and these are already in hock for about their net value - His music no longer sells enough to even cover the costs of the videos he makes so lets hope this finishes him off - then lock his ass up and let the big dudes deal with him.

Conclamo Ludus · 11-21-2003, 09:12 AM

Law & Order, Guilty or Innocent, aside, I wish the guy would've gotten some help along time ago. I think he's sheltered himself from his demons for too long. With enough therapy he may have avoided this mess altogether. This is one of those cases that makes me sick for all involved. If he's innocent poor Michael and poor kid, if he's guilty poor kid. Same with Kobe. If he's innocent poor Kobe, if he's guilty poor woman-who-filed-charges.

txlovely · 11-21-2003, 09:13 AM

I think he is quite obviously mentally ill. If nothing else, the "man" needs counseling. If he's guilty, I hope he doesn't get O.J.'d and instead pays for his actions. I can only imagine that the prosecutors really made sure to dot their i's and cross their t's this time around - the old "fool me once..." saying applies I'm sure.

WarWagon · 11-21-2003, 09:34 AM

Maybe he'll make money by being a motivational speaker for NAMBLA?

Dano069 · 11-21-2003, 10:53 AM

Quote:

I'm completely ignoring this. Some people convicted.. you just posted something all out rude.

Yeah, you're right, it's rude. It's also what I believe should happen to ALL convicted sex offenders. (yeah, I know, he hasn't been convicted yet, if at all) Life sucks, it's what happens in prison, like it or not.

GakFace · 11-21-2003, 12:36 PM

maybe it does... but who are we to convict someone... especially when the story hasn't even been heard?

Dano069 · 11-21-2003, 01:25 PM

Um, that's what the jury system is based on, us convicting/freeing someone.

Seriously though, the Smoking Gun has some info on the parents of this kid. Maybe Jacko's innocent after all?

Edited:

Good job Dano, you moron. You forgot to post the link. Sorry, here it is.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/mjaccuser1.html

chris2980 · 11-21-2003, 01:33 PM

i think he needs to be arrested

Averett · 11-21-2003, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GakFace
maybe it does... but who are we to convict someone... especially when the story hasn't even been heard?

We're not convicting him. We're mearly having a discussion...

susartele · 11-23-2003, 03:59 PM

I am waiting to hear what the "rubba rubba" game is that he supposedly played with boys.
And while an occasion might occur where a 13 year old would sleep with a man who was not his father or brother, to make a practice of it seems very suspect.

numist · 11-23-2003, 04:16 PM

as usual, I wonder how the Smoking Gun gets a hold of all these things when "real" news agencies have nothing.

Bias may work both ways, but Im inclined to smile at the TSG Article.

monty121052 · 11-23-2003, 05:58 PM

This is one sick puppy,guilt or not he is in the shit.

Kostya · 11-23-2003, 07:25 PM

Well I could feel symoathy for him if he's not guilty, but being the celebrity hating bitter cynic I am:

In the words of Nelson Muntz: "HAR HAR"

wry1 · 11-24-2003, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by numist
I am age-blind, Michael Jackson is still a kid at heart due to his childhood with bad parents, and I really do feel sorry for the pain that the man has been forced to endure. I can only hope that whatever happens after this is just.

Not to sound harsh, but really....If you had a rough childhood and have "issues", sleeping with 12 and 13 year-old boys is not the answer!!!

Go to therapy. Talk this out. Exorcise your personal "demons" and get on with your life. But act like an adult, for Pete's sake! Okay, I realize that 45 is about the time when a lot of men have their mid-life crisis, but since Michael's been doing this for pretty much his entire adult life, I don't think it qualifies as "crisis"-type material.

I agree with Art....just as the Catholic Church is dealing with its mess - rather publicly, I'm glad to say - the law's focus is moving on to Michael Jackson. In both cases, loads of money have been thrown about, but now that it's gone to criminal proceedings there cannot be a settlement in either case that doesn't involve some sort of jail time.

Good!

I'm sure Michael will make someone a lovely wife in the "big house"....

Oh, and just so you know: the reason he's so afraid of the sun is simple - he can melt, you know! That much plastic surgery on anyone is just inviting disaster.....

Prince · 11-24-2003, 08:14 AM

I find this whole public lynching even sicker than the thought of him being guilty of what they accuse him of having done.

A replay of what happened a decade ago. He paid to make the trial go away, and quite frankly, I would have too. When bullshit like this gets started, common sense and facts go out the door. Few people on this board have any facts regarding this case, all of it is based on what you read in the papers or watch on FOX. Sorry, but to me that is not enough evidence to get a public lynching and bashing any support from me.

Even if he were a pedophile, he's a far cry from being the only one. I'd say that few pedophiles out there get as much media attention as this alleged one. He's a pop icon, he's rich, he's socially awkward. So naturally he MUST be guilty of at least SOMETHING.

He's innocent as far as I am concerned unless he gets convicted. The fact that he paid to make the trial go away 10 years ago proves nothing to me, one way or another. The kid whose parents took him to court ten years ago said at the time that MJ never did anything to him. Besides, if my child was sexually abused, I wouldn't accept a plea bargain. That's like setting a price tag on your child's innocence and emotional security. It doesn't matter what you end up using that money for. It's immoral to accept a cash settlement under such circumstances. But that's just me.

The public needs someone to vent on. The media needs someone to make money off of. This month is MJ, next someone else. Who gives a fuck.

yellowgowild · 11-24-2003, 08:47 AM

For those of you who think he will get off by throwing money around, you're wrong. Right after he did that last time, they passed a law that wont let him pay off an accuser until all is done with the courts.

onetime2 · 11-24-2003, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by yellowgowild
For those of you who think he will get off by throwing money around, you're wrong. Right after he did that last time, they passed a law that wont let him pay off an accuser until all is done with the courts.

That law gave the courts the ability to stop the legal proceedings associated with a civil trial if it may impact a criminal trial. There is no way for the prosecution to compel the testimony of the alleged victim if the victim and/or his parents don't wish him to testify. If MJ decided to pay the "victim" off he could always just put some cash in an account in the Cayman's or somewhere and when the boy refuses to testify, the funds are released.

Of course, I am of the opinion that he will be vindicated and I think the last thing he will do after the public relations fiasco of the last time is settle. I just wanted to point out that there are ways around the new law and that it isn't as broad in scope as the prosecutor and the media make it out to be.

Tirian · 11-24-2003, 01:12 PM

From MS-NBC

“I am told that this whole thing started when the boy went to a therapist and started talking to the therapist,” says Levin. “And certain things were said that alarmed the therapist. Under California law, he has a duty to contact authorities if the therapist either believes or has reason to believe that there’s child abuse. And that’s what the therapist felt.”

I don't know about MJ in all of this, but I do know that I do NOT trust anything that comes from the couch of a therapist.

And before anyone rushes to defend therapy...no I have never been, no this is not based on anything more than a gut feeling, yes I am glad that therapy works for some folks, etc. etc.

Mainly I guess I'm too afraid of false memory to trust therapy. Especially on a young child who has apperently been previously abused by his father.

Averett · 11-24-2003, 01:28 PM

Apparently the accuser is the boy who was in the documentary. I'd post a link but I don't know what the protocal is on that here.

Here's the link
http://dailytelegraph.news.com.au/st...storyid=534904

Quote:

Jackson's explicit letters seized

By CAROLINE GRAHAM and SHARON CHURCHER in London

November 24, 2003

EXPLICIT letters and poems said to have been written by Michael Jackson to his alleged victim will form the centrepiece of the sex-abuse case against him.

Police seized at least a dozen letters during the raid on Jackson's Neverland ranch last week.

"The district attorney is convinced these letters will be crucial to the case against Jackson," a source close to the investigation said yesterday.

"The boy told investigators about letters and poems and their precise location inside Michael's home. These letters were among the evidence seized, along with videotapes.

"They are very explicit and intimate and show a degree of familiarity. Basically, they appear to be love letters from Michael to the boy."

The accuser, 12-year-old Los Angeles cancer victim Gavin Arvizo, also told police Jackson's pet name for him was Rubba.

"The boy first told this to his therapist, then repeated it to police," the source said.

"He said Jackson called him Rubba because one of the games they used to play was called rubba rubba. The boy said, 'Michael told me he was my rubba rubba friend."'

Although police handling the case in Santa Barbara, California, have been barred from revealing any details, it is understood the alleged abuse took place in February.

Jackson is said to have befriended Gavin -- who, during a controversial British documentary screened earlier this year, admitted having shared a bed with the singer -- over a long period.

A source close to 45-year-old Jackson said: "For the past five or six years, he's taken kids from fractured homes and nurtured them as a father figure. As they get older, he teaches them fun things to do.

"Michael says he learned this from an adult when he was a teenager. No-one on his staff ever said anything. He's a tyrant. Everybody obeys the man."

Another Jackson source said: "The boy told of everything that went on and described things in Michael's closets, his bathroom, what was under his bed."

In her statements to police, Gavin's mother, Janet Ventura, has revealed that Jackson encouraged her son to call him "Daddy".

Ms Ventura has claimed she, Gavin and his two siblings were held virtual prisoners at Neverland, 100km north of Santa Barbara.

When she learned of her son's accusations of molestation -- which included claims that Jackson plied him with wine and sleeping pills -- she fled with her family in the dead of night.

A source close to district attorney Tom Sneddon, who will prosecute the case, said: "The DA is very confident with the evidence he has. This includes letters, videos and computer files. They believe they have enough to nail Jackson."

Jackson's legal team is said to be encouraging him to consider a plea bargain, possibly an insanity defence that would allow him to serve time in a state mental hospital instead of jail.

There was speculation yesterday that the singer raised his $3 million bail with the help of Miami-based Al Malnik, a lawyer for notorious gangster Meyer Lansky, who died in 1983.

Malnik reportedly began making large loans to Jackson when his career nosedived.

Malnik, 69, was cited by the New Jersey Casino Control Commission in 1980 and 1992 as a person of unsuitable character.

The prosecution source said: "It just gets weirder and weirder. Michael supposedly has financial problems, but hiring someone with Mob connections is bizarre."

Prosecutors are said to be spreading a net around the world for other alleged victims. One boy of special interest is said to be in El Salvador, another in South Africa.

They are also said to be considering quizzing the son of an English premiership footballer.

Charges of aiding and abetting are likely to be filed against members of Jackson's entourage.

At the same time as the Neverland swoop, police raided two homes in Los Angeles.

One was reportedly the residence of Marc Schaffel, a gay video producer who filmed the rebuttal tape Jackson released just after Martin Bashir's British documentary aired.

I saw the documentary with this boy, and it was CREEPY.

I'm not sure why it was revealed that this is the accuser. It could be totally false, ala the Kobe Bryant leak.

Mehoni · 11-24-2003, 02:47 PM

Quote:

I saw the documentary with this boy, and it was CREEPY.

Ever heard of people in realityshows saying that they cut the show so taht certain aspects looked worse than it really was?

Averett · 11-24-2003, 03:16 PM

Yes, and I say they're idiots. You can only do so much with editing. Jackson said the things he said, there is no doubt about that. You can't edit words into people's mouths.

raeanna74 · 11-24-2003, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Averett
Yes, and I say they're idiots. You can only do so much with editing. Jackson said the things he said, there is no doubt about that. You can't edit words into people's mouths.

Yeah I know but I did an interview when I worked in gun sales. It was on the local television station. They cut and spliced things so that it looked really like I was some young woman come in to BUY a gun. Don't really understand why they did that. Maybe they couldn't stand the idea of a WOMAN behind the gun counter - or they couldn't get enough women who really wanted to BUY a gun. Either way. They can do so much more than you can imagine.

11-20-2003, 03:21 AM	#82 (permalink)
fuzzix Psycho Location: Australia	I really don't know what to think. The man is obviously completely nuts, of course that doesn't make him a paedophile... I can't say I've ever been a fan, but it's been sad to see MJ deteriorate to such a state. If he really has committed sex crimes then I hope he's punished (8 years seems far too lenient for child sexual abuse), but perhaps he hasn't, people will do anything for money so I wouldn't be surprised if it were those that were making the complaint who were guilty, time will tell I suppose... __________________ I'm most definately not 'lovin' it'.

11-20-2003, 06:50 AM	#83 (permalink)
oberon Quadrature Amplitude Modulator Location: Denver	I never had any respect for Michael Jackson. The fool fucked himself up, as far as I'm concerned. "King of Pop" my ass. He should get a fair trial, and he should go to jail if convicted. __________________ "There are finer fish in the sea than have ever been caught." -- Irish proverb

11-20-2003, 07:33 AM	#84 (permalink)
remiel Insane Location: Gastonia NC	I'm waiting to hear what the result is. Jackson is, in my mind, a very strange and damaged human being. I have reason to at least strongly suspect that he has interfered sexually with children before. If he is found guilty in this case, I hope he goes to jail for a very long time. Sadly, he's rich, and therefore will get the best justice money can buy. I'm not going to say he did it or he didn't, because I don't know, but I'm glad this case is being taken seriously. __________________ "Then said Joseph to St. Mary, henceforth we will not allow him to go out of the house; for every one who displeases him is killed." Gospel of the Infancy of Jesus Christ, 20:16

11-20-2003, 08:28 AM	#85 (permalink)
jwoody Shackle Me Not Location: Newcastle - England.	I believe all are innocent until proven guilty. Unless they are guilty of course in which case they are not innocent. __________________ .

11-20-2003, 08:30 AM	#86 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	If he was a NAMBLA member would it make it alright??? __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

11-20-2003, 09:41 AM	#88 (permalink)
water_boy1999 Fly em straight! Location: Above and Beyond	A few thoughts on this situation. I feel saddened that it is happening to someone I used to have a lot of respect for. I mean, I used to like quite a few of his songs and music videos. I think a majority of you who have posted have liked a song or two of his. I think a lot of you are also condemning him before he is proven guilty. This reminds me a little of people who are racist, homophobic, etc....they immediately disassociate themselves with things they are scared of or things they don't understand. A lot of you are scared of the fact that he is odd and lives a very ecclectic lifestyle. You condemn him regardless if he is guilty or innocent. Michael never had a "real" childhood. From the start, his life has always been manipulated by someone else. Can you really blame him for being child like now? He is living out what he never had the opportunity to do when he was a child. So, when he says he has kids over for sleep overs, I "want" to think that it is purely innocent and he is just living out his childhood fantasies because he never had the opportunity to do so before. On the other hand, if he truly did do something to those kids and the accusations are not some way to extort millions from him again, then he should suffer the ultimate consequences for his actions. In short, I could go both ways on this argument. Either way, I am saddened by it. __________________ Doh!!!! -Homer Simpson

11-20-2003, 11:01 AM	#89 (permalink)
skysooner Registered User Location: Oklahoma	Michael Jackson's money got him off the first time. I doubt it will this time. Pedophiles are generally not cured. He needs to be put away if the allegations are proven true.

11-20-2003, 11:25 AM	#90 (permalink)
Dano069 is Nucking Futs! Location: On the edge of sanity	Has he turned himself in yet? Or is he getting plastic surgery done on his asshole to make entry easier? __________________ I may look attentive, but I'm taking peeks down your blouse faster than the human eye can follow.

11-20-2003, 11:59 AM	#91 (permalink)
Jdoe Crazy	I have heard there might be a new law in California that doesn't allow someone who has settled once to settle again. I have no idea if this is true, pure romour. Does anyone out there know for sure? Jdoe

11-21-2003, 01:46 AM	#93 (permalink)
gwr_gwir Crazy	mm. self, I tend to go with this: http://www.msnbc.com/news/995303.asp as opinion. __________________ Being intelligent is not a felony. But most societies evaluate it as at least a misdemeanor. -- Robert Heinlein

11-21-2003, 05:01 AM	#94 (permalink)
onetime2 Junkie Location: NJ	I don't believe he's guilty. He's damned weird but I don't believe he could/would do what they say he did. He's supposedly this big germaphobe and yet he'll masturbate a kid? He's been accused twice. He's forty something years old, and has been hanging out with kids for the last 30 years, why are there no other accusations? Quite the opposite happened around the first case with other kids coming out and saying nothing inappropriate ever happened. I have doubts about the first case because the parents and the "victim" settled. I agree with others who said they would want to see the bastard that did that to my child punished beyond just monetarily. I mean, how could I go on without giving my kid some legal closure to it? Yeah, I know some will say they didn't want to put their kid through a trial, but rather you'll put them through the rest of their life without having fought back against the abuser? The prosecutor in the case is the same guy from the first trial. He's supposedly known for holding grudges. The raid was timed to coincide with Jackson's latest album release. Accident? I say probably not (especially since MJ allegedly wrote a song about the DA on the HIStory album). I think MJ will be vindicated and this case will be shown to be a fraud. __________________ Strive to be more curious than ignorant.

11-21-2003, 06:24 AM	#95 (permalink)
ubertuber spudly Location: Ellay	Well, settlement isn't even an option this time. He will be facing criminal charges, not civil. What happened last time is that he was facing civil charges and got a settlement with the victim's family. The law did not allow the state to prosecute without the victim's (now lacking) cooperation. They have since changed that law, and can press charges with or without the victim's cooperation. Anyway, I don't think you can settle with the government in a criminal case, just plea bargain. __________________ Cogito ergo spud -- I think, therefore I yam

11-21-2003, 06:34 AM	#97 (permalink)
Averett Is In Love Location: I'm workin' on it	After the first accusations Jackson should have learned better. Sure, have kids around you. But never ever be alone with them. Why put yourself in the situation to be accused again? Guilty or not, he should have learned his lesson the first time. __________________ Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.

11-21-2003, 09:06 AM	#99 (permalink)
Liquor Dealer Super Agitator Location: Just SW of Nowhere!!! In the good old US of A	I don't think at this point it really matters - his money is what has kept him out of trouble and this will probably end all of his sources of income. He supposedly owns a lot of music rights that are worth in the neighborhood of $ 250 mil (nice neighborhood) and these are already in hock for about their net value - His music no longer sells enough to even cover the costs of the videos he makes so lets hope this finishes him off - then lock his ass up and let the big dudes deal with him. __________________ Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

11-21-2003, 09:12 AM	#100 (permalink)
Conclamo Ludus Modern Man Location: West Michigan	Law & Order, Guilty or Innocent, aside, I wish the guy would've gotten some help along time ago. I think he's sheltered himself from his demons for too long. With enough therapy he may have avoided this mess altogether. This is one of those cases that makes me sick for all involved. If he's innocent poor Michael and poor kid, if he's guilty poor kid. Same with Kobe. If he's innocent poor Kobe, if he's guilty poor woman-who-filed-charges. __________________ Lord, have mercy on my wicked soul I wouldn't mistreat you baby, for my weight in gold. -Son House, Death Letter Blues

11-21-2003, 09:13 AM	#101 (permalink)
txlovely Insane Location: ...We have a problem.	I think he is quite obviously mentally ill. If nothing else, the "man" needs counseling. If he's guilty, I hope he doesn't get O.J.'d and instead pays for his actions. I can only imagine that the prosecutors really made sure to dot their i's and cross their t's this time around - the old "fool me once..." saying applies I'm sure. __________________ Cruel words erode self-esteem like the ocean eats away the shore.

11-21-2003, 09:34 AM	#102 (permalink)
WarWagon Loser	Maybe he'll make money by being a motivational speaker for NAMBLA?

11-21-2003, 12:36 PM	#104 (permalink)
GakFace Go Ninja, Go Ninja Go!! Location: IN, USA	maybe it does... but who are we to convict someone... especially when the story hasn't even been heard? __________________ RoboBlaster: Welcome to the club! Not that I'm in the club. And there really isn'a a club in the first place. But if there was a club and if I was in it, I would definitely welcome you to it.

11-21-2003, 01:25 PM	#105 (permalink)
Dano069 is Nucking Futs! Location: On the edge of sanity	Um, that's what the jury system is based on, us convicting/freeing someone. Seriously though, the Smoking Gun has some info on the parents of this kid. Maybe Jacko's innocent after all? Edited: Good job Dano, you moron. You forgot to post the link. Sorry, here it is. http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/mjaccuser1.html __________________ I may look attentive, but I'm taking peeks down your blouse faster than the human eye can follow. Last edited by Dano069; 11-21-2003 at 01:56 PM..

11-21-2003, 01:33 PM	#106 (permalink)
chris2980 Tilted Location: earth	i think he needs to be arrested

11-23-2003, 03:59 PM	#108 (permalink)
susartele Tilted Location: northeast	I am waiting to hear what the "rubba rubba" game is that he supposedly played with boys. And while an occasion might occur where a 13 year old would sleep with a man who was not his father or brother, to make a practice of it seems very suspect. __________________ www.artelevision.com

11-23-2003, 04:16 PM	#109 (permalink)
numist Banned Location: UCSD, 510.49 miles from my love	as usual, I wonder how the Smoking Gun gets a hold of all these things when "real" news agencies have nothing. Bias may work both ways, but Im inclined to smile at the TSG Article.

11-23-2003, 05:58 PM	#110 (permalink)
monty121052 Insane Location: Newcastle-Australia	This is one sick puppy,guilt or not he is in the shit.

11-23-2003, 07:25 PM	#111 (permalink)
Kostya Little known... Location: Brisbane, Australia	Well I could feel symoathy for him if he's not guilty, but being the celebrity hating bitter cynic I am: In the words of Nelson Muntz: "HAR HAR"

11-24-2003, 08:14 AM	#113 (permalink)
Prince /nɑndəsˈkrɪpt/ Location: LV-426	I find this whole public lynching even sicker than the thought of him being guilty of what they accuse him of having done. A replay of what happened a decade ago. He paid to make the trial go away, and quite frankly, I would have too. When bullshit like this gets started, common sense and facts go out the door. Few people on this board have any facts regarding this case, all of it is based on what you read in the papers or watch on FOX. Sorry, but to me that is not enough evidence to get a public lynching and bashing any support from me. Even if he were a pedophile, he's a far cry from being the only one. I'd say that few pedophiles out there get as much media attention as this alleged one. He's a pop icon, he's rich, he's socially awkward. So naturally he MUST be guilty of at least SOMETHING. He's innocent as far as I am concerned unless he gets convicted. The fact that he paid to make the trial go away 10 years ago proves nothing to me, one way or another. The kid whose parents took him to court ten years ago said at the time that MJ never did anything to him. Besides, if my child was sexually abused, I wouldn't accept a plea bargain. That's like setting a price tag on your child's innocence and emotional security. It doesn't matter what you end up using that money for. It's immoral to accept a cash settlement under such circumstances. But that's just me. The public needs someone to vent on. The media needs someone to make money off of. This month is MJ, next someone else. Who gives a fuck. __________________ Who is John Galt?

11-24-2003, 08:47 AM	#114 (permalink)
yellowgowild Psycho Location: Tampa	For those of you who think he will get off by throwing money around, you're wrong. Right after he did that last time, they passed a law that wont let him pay off an accuser until all is done with the courts.

11-24-2003, 01:12 PM	#116 (permalink)
Tirian Addict Location: Canada	From MS-NBC “I am told that this whole thing started when the boy went to a therapist and started talking to the therapist,” says Levin. “And certain things were said that alarmed the therapist. Under California law, he has a duty to contact authorities if the therapist either believes or has reason to believe that there’s child abuse. And that’s what the therapist felt.” I don't know about MJ in all of this, but I do know that I do NOT trust anything that comes from the couch of a therapist. And before anyone rushes to defend therapy...no I have never been, no this is not based on anything more than a gut feeling, yes I am glad that therapy works for some folks, etc. etc. Mainly I guess I'm too afraid of false memory to trust therapy. Especially on a young child who has apperently been previously abused by his father.

11-24-2003, 03:16 PM	#119 (permalink)
Averett Is In Love Location: I'm workin' on it	Yes, and I say they're idiots. You can only do so much with editing. Jackson said the things he said, there is no doubt about that. You can't edit words into people's mouths. __________________ Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.