Preteen's suicide leaves many questions about subtle warnings.. - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

numberfive · 08-31-2003, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Preteen's suicide leaves many questions about subtle warnings

By SUSAN PAYNTER
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER COLUMNIST

Stu Allen and Fay Freedman are not combing the aisles of Office Max for back-to-school binders this week. They're not sewing name labels on fall jackets and gloves.

Instead, they are trying to stitch their lives together without their only child. They're shopping for cause and effect.

Jane would have been a seventh-grader next week but she is gone. The Seattle 12-year-old with the smiling lips and somber eyes unfathomably died by her own hand at home last Jan. 13, so young, bright and fragile.

How Jane died is all too horrifically clear to a mother and father who surely feel freshly flayed by grief each day that they get up. Particularly this week as friends supply their own precious, chattering, mood-swinging children for middle school -- the crucible where their mettle will be tested and hopefully not melt down.

At school, teachers and administrators can screen for knives and slam the brakes on the obvious brands of harassment, name-calling and intimidation that we have all come to know so well since Columbine. More labels are now slapped on kids than on their clothing: Bully. Queen Bee. Sidekick. Jock.

And while a simple answer, as small and clearly printed as a hall pass, would help Jane's parents, schoolmates and teachers to go on, questions only bring more questions.

How much hidden unhappiness did Jane take to school along with her backpack even before the first bell rang?

What are the clear cues to a teacher that something is seriously wrong?

And what messages, if any, did Jane, a poet and artist, leave for us to tuck into the pockets of our own preteens?

E-mails between Jane's parents and her school started soon after last fall began. By October, at home, Jane was saying she was being teased, pointed at, whispered about and ostracized at school.

But, at school, Jane said nothing when asked for specific whos and wheres.

Teachers, on alert, reported seeing nothing alarming or out of the ordinary being aimed at Jane.

In December, Jane's parents later learned, Jane had "melted down" in a P.E. class, crying that she hated the kids, the game, the school. But, by the next week, she was reportedly "on the right track," again.

In writing class, she both shone and flashed an occasional sign of inner turbulence.

In math, she was smiling more, seeming less inward.
In English and history, there were times when she could be cutting and times when things seemed slightly awry. But, in science, she seemed happier as the term continued.

The grades coming home were all A's. But she often came home crying, Jane's dad said. "She felt that a small core group of girls kept grinding her down," Allen said. So, together, they read all the books. "Best Friends, Worst Enemies: Understanding the Social Lives of Children." And "Mom, They're Teasing Me."

At home, Jane was instant messaging with other girls, which seemed a good sign but also can be an instant route to insults. "Ihateyoujaneyousuck" was the screen name of one of the girls with whom she played The Friend Test on the Internet. And when that popped on the screen, Jane was visibly upset.

It wasn't a nice game name, for sure. But was it any worse than some your own child might receive? As for Jane's reaction, if you have a child that age, you know the emotional roller coaster is always running even when the fair is not in town.

At school, administrators helped Jane strategize ways to connect and make friends. She joined the basketball team. She sported a chic new haircut.

But were her parents really getting enough information from school? And was school really getting enough information from home?

There appears to have been a lot of focus on a single child among many at her school that fall. Still, how much time and attention is enough and how much is possible?

Then came Jan. 13. In art class, Jane drew a picture of a girl and a tidal wave as part of a larger art project. That evening she took her own life.

In retrospect, after something so unthinkable as suicide, each piece of the puzzle is seen through a very different lens than before.

Take this poem by Jane. Was it written by just another bored kid waiting for the bell or by a child at the door of disaster? Jane left no simple answers. Not essay. Not even multiple choice.

Impatience.

How much longer?

It makes you feel like you will explode.

Just ... sitting ... sitting ... sitting.

Watch the seconds tick by.

5 to 3 ... tick, tick, tick.

You want to scream. How much longer must I sit here!? On the edge of sanity.

Thoughts run through your mind. Thinking you'd rather be anywhere else in the world.

Minutes turn to hours.

"What is the point of all this?" you think.

Your paper is covered in abstract doodlings

Finally the bell rings.

This saddens me in so many ways. I mean, suicide at such a young age, it's depressing. Suicide is most always depressing but when a 12 year-old, someone who hasn't even had the chance to experiance the better things in life, decides to take her own life, it hurts. It makes you, or at least me, wonder what's happening these days at school, at home, everywhere, to make children think they can make decisions like this. Ugh.

DelayedReaction · 08-31-2003, 10:05 PM

I've been there. Middle school for me was hell; several times I came home thinking of killing myself because of all the hate and spite I received there. Long before Columbine, I had considered placing gas bombs inside lockers and tossing Molotav cocktails down crowded hallways.

Why? Because I felt disconnected. Everyone laughed at me. One of the most popular guys at school, a thug (we were literally right next to the ghetto) named Lamont, picked me for harassment after I brushed past him in the locker.

And the teachers and administrators did almost nothing. What could they do? There were so many hallways they couldn't patrol, so many students that they couldn't keep an eye on them all. So those kids who were easy targets had to learn to survive.

And I did. People may laugh at the thought of me fighting for "survival" now (I'm 6'9" and weigh 320), but back then it was easy to pick on anyone you wanted to. The only thing you could do is find things that you enjoyed, stick with them, and keep yourself out of despair.

I still feel that lack of connection at times, even now as a club president at my University. I wonder if my life is still pathetic, if the fact that I can't seem to find a date is indicative of something wrong with me, or if I'm doing something wrong and people are laughing when I don't look. But then I hang out with my friends, or think about the family that's always been there for me, and it turns me around.

I think that's what this little girl was missing, more than anything else. Something to hold on to.

nothingx · 08-31-2003, 10:06 PM

Indeed.... a tragedy....

anti fishstick · 08-31-2003, 10:40 PM

an interesting book that tackles the silent emotional impact cliques (especially girls.. they're vicious) have in middle school/high school is odd girl out: the hidden culture of agression in girls by rachel simmons. teachers are usually unaware of this because the bullying isn't physical or direct, but very discreet and -very- painful. alienation, even amongst friends can occur. and can scar someone emotionally for the rest of their life. they can gang up on one girl, and make it their personal mission to make her life a living hell. girls are so impressionable in these years and it's a shame that their peers bring them down.

Halx · 08-31-2003, 10:48 PM

On the less travelled path, I think the article was written in an overly dramatic fashion and it sensationalized a suicide that was preceeded by scribbles and notes that EVERY teenager writes at some point in their miserable existance.

School sucks. Big time. It's real sad when someone cant take it anymore. Suicide is never fun. I had a rough school career myself. I dropped out, I didn't kill myself. I finished in home school, on a high note.

Esoteric · 08-31-2003, 11:46 PM

Man, that is terrible... :\

AnUnkind · 09-01-2003, 12:06 AM

Yeah, the reporter's writing style did seem like she was trying to milk all she could get out of the story.
Man I never thought someone so young would commit suicide like this. It's scary even for someone so far away from having children, must be real bad for parents...

Wile E · 09-01-2003, 04:29 AM

Hmm, I don't know if I disagree with her style of writing in this case. Yes she is sensationalizing a suicide of a young girl, but it also gets a job done. If this was a typical news article, "Another teen suicide, parents mourn, now onto bigger topics..." I don't think it would've hit home as much as it just did. I can't speak for any one else reading this, but this just gave me a hollow feeling in the pit of my stomach. Why is this good? Because this subject just might need to be discussed. Here, in schools, at homes, wherever it can be so people can be more aware of this situation. I for one didn't know this much about this subject. Not saying my school time was perfect, but it was nothing like this. When I had a problem with somebody or was being picked on, I usually went home all bloodied up. There were no "secret societies" out to get people. And I guarentee that there are a lot of parents that it would probably do some good for them to read up on this.

As far as the little girl goes, that is so tragic. It amazes me how cruel people can be, especially so young. I truly hope that the little she-devils that conspired against her feel a direct hit and suffer the rest of their lives with the guilt of this. So sad.

Cynthetiq · 09-01-2003, 04:54 AM

tragic....

those that never gave Buffy the Vampire Slayer a chance.. Joss Whedon metaphored HS with Hell. It wasn't so much a bad place, more so just such a turbulent and difficult time for each individual that attened those halls.

Spidey · 09-01-2003, 06:14 AM

In New Zealand we have one of the worlds highest youth suicide rates in the world, much higher than that of the US. The main problem start during high school where people harass one another in order to seem "cooler" among their peers. This usually leads to low self esteem, low self worth and low self confidence which causes depression among many of our younger kids.
Its tragic but it happens to everyone and the main way of preventing such tragedies from occuring again is through education and teaching those who are depressed that there is help avaliable.

Hash_Browns · 09-01-2003, 06:31 AM

I would like to know how much talking actually went on after reading those books. I see a lot about teachers and parents talking to each other...but where they even talking to this girl? Besides reading her poems...did they listen to her heart? I agree we can all write those kinds of poems...we get ideas from songs and what not...but it just seems to me, she had more going on then anyone will ever know...and it might not have been the girls at school...for all anyone knows it was at home...

BoCo · 09-01-2003, 06:37 AM

She'd probably be alive if mommy and daddy worked less and spent time with her more.

...and didn't fight with each other.

Hash_Browns · 09-01-2003, 06:43 AM

I don't know if that reply was aimed towards me and the at home comment, but I felt I should clarify what I meant by stateing...

When I say at home, I just simply mean it could have been abuse she was getting there. Sexual, physical or verbal...

I wasn't trying to say that they neglected her...just that maybe she was getting more from her parents then she should have...and no one will know because it wasn't an issue that anyone was looking into. I hope you all also understand that I only mention this because I have been down that road and seemed to be a target for perverts, but I also was taught how to speak up and prevent it. This may have been bigger then school...I am just someone who thinks outside of the box when it comes to this stuff because I am a surviveing victim of that kind of abuse and so it's on my mind when taking into consideration the lives of children who don't have a voice or the knowledge that what's happening is wrong. Or maybe she did know...but didn't know how to tell someone...so instead when that bell rang to signal going home...it meant she didn't want to go home...who knows...anyways...that's the only point I was trying to make about it maybe being at home...not just school.

lurkette · 09-01-2003, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BoCo
She'd probably be alive if mommy and daddy worked less and spent time with her more.

...and didn't fight with each other.

That's a bit of a jump to a completely unsupported and unfair conclusion. You have no idea what their family life was like. Are you speaking perhaps from personal experience, or just making a knee-jerk judgment?

H12 · 09-01-2003, 10:38 AM

That's gotta be the youngest suicide I've heard of. Yikes.

bermuDa · 09-01-2003, 11:47 AM

I'm sorry but I don't feel sorry for this dumb kid; I feel sorry for her parents. A part of going to school is learning how to cope with other people, not all of whom are buddy-buddy with you.

Anyone who wasn't home schooled knows how cruel kids can be, and some of us have even considered suicide... but to act on that impulse?? That's a sign of immaturity and selfishness to the highest degree; and please don't remind me how young this kid was... do you think these youngsters would think it's ok to commit suicide if we dismissed them as deplorable acts of selfishness instead of tragedies? not that they aren't tragedies, but if we spoke more harshly of suicides these kids might not consider it such a viable option.

They want to make a statement? They should do it by living, not by dying. If these kids want to end their suffering, they should talk to their parents about going to another school or home-schooling (or grow a tougher skin), not cause the suffering of their families who now have to live their lives without them.

I wonder if these suicides even consider the lives they're affecting with their pathetic decision... and "they'll be sorry!" doesn't count.

World's King · 09-01-2003, 12:32 PM

Raise your hand if you didn't get made fun of when you were 12.

Anyone?

No one... that's what I thought.

dnd · 09-01-2003, 12:37 PM

Bermuda i don't think after reading the poem that was apparantly written by jane that she committed suicide with the idea of "they'll be sorry" but instead with the idea that this was the only way she had of getting out of the truly depressing situation she found herself in. She tried the ways to sort her situation out that she knew, she was only 12....what else can she do except tell her parents and teachers? she should have told the teachers who exactly was bullying her but wouldn't that lead to more bullying for "knockin" on ur peers? i know in my school that most of the bullies were the "cool" kids with the friends who hung on to them and not what everyone says, the kids who were insecure with themselves... these bullies always had more friends then those kids who they picked on because it was easy..who would stand up to them? she should have also ignored the bullies, but why should she have been expected to tolerate the constant mental bullying every day at school? not condoning her actions but also feel there are always things we don't know about the situation.

JumpinJesus · 09-01-2003, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bermuDa
I'm sorry but I don't feel sorry for this dumb kid; I feel sorry for her parents. A part of going to school is learning how to cope with other people, not all of whom are buddy-buddy with you.

Anyone who wasn't home schooled knows how cruel kids can be, and some of us have even considered suicide... but to act on that impulse?? That's a sign of immaturity and selfishness to the highest degree; and please don't remind me how young this kid was... do you think these youngsters would think it's ok to commit suicide if we dismissed them as deplorable acts of selfishness instead of tragedies? not that they aren't tragedies, but if we spoke more harshly of suicides these kids might not consider it such a viable option.

They want to make a statement? They should do it by living, not by dying. If these kids want to end their suffering, they should talk to their parents about going to another school or home-schooling (or grow a tougher skin), not cause the suffering of their families who now have to live their lives without them.

I wonder if these suicides even consider the lives they're affecting with their pathetic decision... and "they'll be sorry!" doesn't count.

I understand you feel passionate about this, but come on... You say suicide is immature. She's 12 years old; what do you expect from 12 years old? Ancient wisdom? And since when did adults treating certain acts as deplorable stop adolescents from doing them? We all talk about how they need to toughen up and learn to take it. Learn being the operative word here. Who is supposed to teach them? Can we guarantee that the kids will be taught? And if they're not, do we rub our hands and say, "Oh, well, stupid kid"?

We also all have our own stories of being on the brink of suicide so we all seem to know for a fact that, since I didn't commit suicide, this kid is stupid for doing it. I didn't realize we could paint everyone's situations with the brush of our own experiences.

These kids do contemplate the effect their suicides will have on those left behind. Unfortunately, they already believe that no one gives a shit, which is one of the reasons why they go through with it. If they truly knew that there were those who cared, they probably wouldn't be in that situation in the first place, so that argument doesn't work in preventing suicide.

I don't have the answers; I wish I did. But until we start actually treating kids like they matter, instead of paying them bullshit lip service, this problem won't go away. And I'm sorry, but the mindset that believes a good way to prevent suicide is by telling these kids they're stupid for doing it is like believing you can stop a car by flooring the gas.

joe100 · 09-01-2003, 02:52 PM

A person who commits suicide is very selfish. They don't understand that there are other people in the world who will be affected by what they have done.

But I suppose that is the big thing that they don't get. Is that they affect other people. But they don't understand it, why don't they understand it? What are they missing?

The times in my life when I was struggling and I thought about suicide it quickly became a bad idea because of how it would affect my family and friends.

So I suppose if you do commit suicide, you don't understand how it will affect other people. You either don't care (selfish) or you truly do not see the connection between you and how you effect others.

In some cases, suicide will happen eventually. Even when the family and friends do all the right things.

That is how I see it.

Wile E · 09-01-2003, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bermuDa

...and please don't remind me how young this kid was... do you think these youngsters would think it's ok to commit suicide if we dismissed them as deplorable acts of selfishness instead of tragedies? not that they aren't tragedies, but if we spoke more harshly of suicides these kids might not consider it such a viable option.

Wow, I cannot believe I just read this. Besides the huge hypocritical statement that was flashing like a neon sign, I am surprised somebody can actually be this insensitive. You don't want to hear how young she is and how she might not have known better, but yet if we spoke more harshly of suicides these kids wouldn't think it to be viable. Hmm, so which is it? Yes you are correct at how cruel and insensitive kids can be. And yes you were an amazing person to be able to survive. We applaud you. But not everyone is so fortunate.

This is a tradgedy. A young girl died. Whether it be by her own bringing or not. She was in need of help. Perhaps she was not capable of receiving it, or it was not given to her. We will never know. What we do know is having a generalization of that all suicide victims are dumb, is just that, dumb.

bermuDa · 09-01-2003, 04:54 PM

I was using 'dumb' as a generalization. She was dumb, her peers were dumb, all kids are dumb. I asked not to be reminded of her age because I figured people would say something like 'how mature can you be at 12?', which happened anyways...

This isn't drugs or sex we're talking about, it's taking your own life. We tell kids it's the wrong thing to do they aren't gonna go out and try it. But if we treat it as a huge tragedy every time some kid cracks under the pressures of pre-pubescent life, they're going to think "hey if I do this I'll get all kinds of attention. People will cry over me and reminisce about what a great kid I was."

Which brings me to a question: Has this sort of thing happened in previous generations? What kind of culture has this become when kids think violence towards themselves or others is a solution to their problems? Like I said, yes this is a tragedy but with all the publicity these tragedies get, they're just going to multiply.

Committing suicide is a selfish act, whether the purpose is to hurt other people or because one can't handle the pressures of life. People who have thoughts of suicide have my sympathy, and if I know them I try to help them. People who commit it do not. If that's insensitivity then fine.

SkanK0r · 09-02-2003, 11:27 AM

I'm with Halx. I could've done without the melodrama.

In response to Bermuda: Saying suicide is a selfish act is a selfish act. While it's obvious that this kid was troubled and needed help, I don't understand how you can call her selfish. You're right, it DOES make you insensitive. It shows just how little you must know about what anyone in that situation might be going through.

What kind of society do we live in, today? The kind of society where people are too cowardly to admit that there are problems that they don't want to deal with, so they choose to blame the victim.

Xell101 · 09-02-2003, 01:23 PM

All I can say is that when it comes to those things you either understand it or it emotionally destroyed, adapt and overcome or be consumed by it. She was consumed by it, we need to teach kids how to adapt and overcome problems. I overcame it by emotionally numbing myself and pondering nearly everything till I could resolve the issues within myself. Sure it took from 6th to 11th grade, but it worked and I ahven't any issues since.

Quote:

What kind of society do we live in, today? The kind of society where people are too cowardly to admit that there are problems that they don't want to deal with, so they choose to blame the victim.

A bullshit society I would classify as: Broken. So many fuckin' problems.

water_boy1999 · 09-02-2003, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SkanK0r
I'm with Halx. I could've done without the melodrama.

In response to Bermuda: Saying suicide is a selfish act is a selfish act. While it's obvious that this kid was troubled and needed help, I don't understand how you can call her selfish. You're right, it DOES make you insensitive. It shows just how little you must know about what anyone in that situation might be going through.

What kind of society do we live in, today? The kind of society where people are too cowardly to admit that there are problems that they don't want to deal with, so they choose to blame the victim.

Well put SkanKor. Bermuda, we all applaud how you overcame your hardships of youth. There was probably some outlet that allowed you to vent your frustrations to enable you get past the emotional rollercoaster we call "growing up". Perhaps this girl didn't have the same options you had. Perhaps she tried to reach out in her own way she knew how and no one saw the signs. Were you that wise at 12 years old? I wasn't. I can bet most people will agree that they still had quite to learn about life at 12 years old. I went through quite a troubled childhood as well....thought about suicide quite a bit. Told a counselor I wanted to kill myself because people thought I was ugly. I went through it from about the second grade all the way through high school. I overcame the thoughts of suicide, but I also had a lot of people that saw the signs and took it into their own hands to help a young guy out. You can't blame her for being selfish. If she had the proper outlets to turn to, I am sure she would have tried another route. She was at a dead-end and WE couldn't see the roadsigns.

Gortexfogg · 09-02-2003, 04:48 PM

This is a very sad story. However, it didn't mention how she killed herself. I don't think it would have been bad taste to mention it in the article. Also, do the parents have any other kids? The writer could have put a little more information in.

shAzb0t · 09-02-2003, 05:18 PM

It says she was an only child, Gortexfogg, I think.

The thing about kids that age is that the teasers have no idea of how cruel they can be.

shAzb0t · 09-02-2003, 05:21 PM

On another note, middle school is certainly the worst time to be teased in your school career. From grades 1-4, words are exchanged, kids scrape knees, etc. Sure, there is cruelty, but the kids don't take it to as long a length as suicide. In high school, most people are mature enough to take verbal insults..hazing is really the only thing to worry about, but that situation is getting better.

StormBerlin · 09-02-2003, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bermuDa
I'm sorry but I don't feel sorry for this dumb kid; I feel sorry for her parents. A part of going to school is learning how to cope with other people, not all of whom are buddy-buddy with you.

Anyone who wasn't home schooled knows how cruel kids can be, and some of us have even considered suicide... but to act on that impulse?? That's a sign of immaturity and selfishness to the highest degree; and please don't remind me how young this kid was... do you think these youngsters would think it's ok to commit suicide if we dismissed them as deplorable acts of selfishness instead of tragedies? not that they aren't tragedies, but if we spoke more harshly of suicides these kids might not consider it such a viable option.

They want to make a statement? They should do it by living, not by dying. If these kids want to end their suffering, they should talk to their parents about going to another school or home-schooling (or grow a tougher skin), not cause the suffering of their families who now have to live their lives without them.

I wonder if these suicides even consider the lives they're affecting with their pathetic decision... and "they'll be sorry!" doesn't count.

I agree completely. Suicide is the most selfish decision anyone can make and I lose all respect for them. School was horrible (for me anyway) but enough to kill myself? That's ridiculous! Eveyone gets teased, it's how you handle it that decides whether they keep doing it.

DelayedReaction · 09-02-2003, 08:55 PM

What I don't understand is why the parents allowed her to stay in the school that was an obvious source of abuse. If the situation is serious enough to warrant the level of attention she was receiving, then it was certainly serious enough to warrant moving her to a different middle school. Or a private school. Or home schooling.

But to leave things to fester is something I cannot fathom. They knew there was a problem, and that it was sufficient to cause her to cry for help multiple times. Did they even consider relocation to be a possibility?

Semi-Normal · 09-02-2003, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bermuDa
do you think these youngsters would think it's ok to commit suicide if we dismissed them as deplorable acts of selfishness instead of tragedies?

So you're saying that we should tell these kids, who are so depressed they're thinking of taking their own lives, who already have incredibly low self-esteem that they're just being selfish and immature? Yeah, I'm sure that'll make them feel better.

billege · 09-03-2003, 02:39 AM

On the less travelled path, I think the article was written in an overly dramatic fashion and it sensationalized a suicide that was preceeded by scribbles and notes that EVERY teenager writes at some point in their miserable existance.
--Halx

This article contains an amazing derth of information. Basically it says: A kid commited suicide because...well, we really don't know.

Suckey article used to exploit a parents pain for copy sales. There's no story here, just a reporter jumping up and down screaming "Look, their kid died!"

Reese · 09-03-2003, 03:24 AM

Depression can do some strange things to your thinking. It's pretty obvious she was Manic-Depressive. being severly depressed made the teasing 10x worse than it was already. I'm sorry for the girl that she didn't get the help she needed.

CapnWaffle · 09-03-2003, 10:51 AM

That story's pretty freaking sad. But, as other's have pointed out, the way the article is written is distracting. I mean, did the reporter think they were being clever with all the school references? A kid, only in middle school, fucking killed herself. It just rubbed me the wrong way.

cradeg · 09-03-2003, 11:37 AM

i only hope all gets better in the afterlife ... its so tragic when someone decides to take his own life

08-31-2003, 10:05 PM	#2 (permalink)
DelayedReaction BFG Builder Location: University of Maryland	I've been there. Middle school for me was hell; several times I came home thinking of killing myself because of all the hate and spite I received there. Long before Columbine, I had considered placing gas bombs inside lockers and tossing Molotav cocktails down crowded hallways. Why? Because I felt disconnected. Everyone laughed at me. One of the most popular guys at school, a thug (we were literally right next to the ghetto) named Lamont, picked me for harassment after I brushed past him in the locker. And the teachers and administrators did almost nothing. What could they do? There were so many hallways they couldn't patrol, so many students that they couldn't keep an eye on them all. So those kids who were easy targets had to learn to survive. And I did. People may laugh at the thought of me fighting for "survival" now (I'm 6'9" and weigh 320), but back then it was easy to pick on anyone you wanted to. The only thing you could do is find things that you enjoyed, stick with them, and keep yourself out of despair. I still feel that lack of connection at times, even now as a club president at my University. I wonder if my life is still pathetic, if the fact that I can't seem to find a date is indicative of something wrong with me, or if I'm doing something wrong and people are laughing when I don't look. But then I hang out with my friends, or think about the family that's always been there for me, and it turns me around. I think that's what this little girl was missing, more than anything else. Something to hold on to. __________________ If ignorance is bliss, you must be having an orgasm.

08-31-2003, 10:40 PM	#4 (permalink)
anti fishstick Post-modernism meets Individualism AKA the Clash Location: oregon	an interesting book that tackles the silent emotional impact cliques (especially girls.. they're vicious) have in middle school/high school is odd girl out: the hidden culture of agression in girls by rachel simmons. teachers are usually unaware of this because the bullying isn't physical or direct, but very discreet and -very- painful. alienation, even amongst friends can occur. and can scar someone emotionally for the rest of their life. they can gang up on one girl, and make it their personal mission to make her life a living hell. girls are so impressionable in these years and it's a shame that their peers bring them down. __________________ And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. ~Anais Nin

08-31-2003, 10:48 PM	#5 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	On the less travelled path, I think the article was written in an overly dramatic fashion and it sensationalized a suicide that was preceeded by scribbles and notes that EVERY teenager writes at some point in their miserable existance. School sucks. Big time. It's real sad when someone cant take it anymore. Suicide is never fun. I had a rough school career myself. I dropped out, I didn't kill myself. I finished in home school, on a high note. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

08-31-2003, 11:46 PM	#6 (permalink)
Esoteric Tired Location: Florida	Man, that is terrible... :\ __________________ From a head full of pressure rests the senses that I clutch Made a date with Divinity, but she wouldn't let me fuck I got touched by a hazy shaded, God help me change Caught a rush on the floor from the life in my veins

09-01-2003, 12:06 AM	#7 (permalink)
AnUnkind Crazy Location: INCONUS	Yeah, the reporter's writing style did seem like she was trying to milk all she could get out of the story. Man I never thought someone so young would commit suicide like this. It's scary even for someone so far away from having children, must be real bad for parents... __________________ yeah, you SHOULD feel stupid....

08-31-2003, 10:06 PM	#3 (permalink)
nothingx undead Location: nihilistic freedom	Indeed.... a tragedy....

09-01-2003, 04:29 AM	#8 (permalink)
Wile E Insane Location: Burbs of NYC	Hmm, I don't know if I disagree with her style of writing in this case. Yes she is sensationalizing a suicide of a young girl, but it also gets a job done. If this was a typical news article, "Another teen suicide, parents mourn, now onto bigger topics..." I don't think it would've hit home as much as it just did. I can't speak for any one else reading this, but this just gave me a hollow feeling in the pit of my stomach. Why is this good? Because this subject just might need to be discussed. Here, in schools, at homes, wherever it can be so people can be more aware of this situation. I for one didn't know this much about this subject. Not saying my school time was perfect, but it was nothing like this. When I had a problem with somebody or was being picked on, I usually went home all bloodied up. There were no "secret societies" out to get people. And I guarentee that there are a lot of parents that it would probably do some good for them to read up on this. As far as the little girl goes, that is so tragic. It amazes me how cruel people can be, especially so young. I truly hope that the little she-devils that conspired against her feel a direct hit and suffer the rest of their lives with the guilt of this. So sad. __________________ "We got no food, no clothes...our pets HEADS ARE FALLIN' OFF!"

09-01-2003, 04:54 AM	#9 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	tragic.... those that never gave Buffy the Vampire Slayer a chance.. Joss Whedon metaphored HS with Hell. It wasn't so much a bad place, more so just such a turbulent and difficult time for each individual that attened those halls. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

09-01-2003, 06:14 AM	#10 (permalink)
Spidey Crazy Location: Wellington, New Zealand	In New Zealand we have one of the worlds highest youth suicide rates in the world, much higher than that of the US. The main problem start during high school where people harass one another in order to seem "cooler" among their peers. This usually leads to low self esteem, low self worth and low self confidence which causes depression among many of our younger kids. Its tragic but it happens to everyone and the main way of preventing such tragedies from occuring again is through education and teaching those who are depressed that there is help avaliable.

09-01-2003, 06:31 AM	#11 (permalink)
Hash_Browns Psycho Location: Right behind you...BOO!	I would like to know how much talking actually went on after reading those books. I see a lot about teachers and parents talking to each other...but where they even talking to this girl? Besides reading her poems...did they listen to her heart? I agree we can all write those kinds of poems...we get ideas from songs and what not...but it just seems to me, she had more going on then anyone will ever know...and it might not have been the girls at school...for all anyone knows it was at home... __________________ Smile It makes people wonder what you're up too!

09-01-2003, 06:37 AM	#12 (permalink)
BoCo Fear the bunny Location: Hanging off the tip of the Right Wing	She'd probably be alive if mommy and daddy worked less and spent time with her more. ...and didn't fight with each other. __________________ Activism is a way for useless people to feel important.

09-01-2003, 06:43 AM	#13 (permalink)
Hash_Browns Psycho Location: Right behind you...BOO!	I don't know if that reply was aimed towards me and the at home comment, but I felt I should clarify what I meant by stateing... When I say at home, I just simply mean it could have been abuse she was getting there. Sexual, physical or verbal... I wasn't trying to say that they neglected her...just that maybe she was getting more from her parents then she should have...and no one will know because it wasn't an issue that anyone was looking into. I hope you all also understand that I only mention this because I have been down that road and seemed to be a target for perverts, but I also was taught how to speak up and prevent it. This may have been bigger then school...I am just someone who thinks outside of the box when it comes to this stuff because I am a surviveing victim of that kind of abuse and so it's on my mind when taking into consideration the lives of children who don't have a voice or the knowledge that what's happening is wrong. Or maybe she did know...but didn't know how to tell someone...so instead when that bell rang to signal going home...it meant she didn't want to go home...who knows...anyways...that's the only point I was trying to make about it maybe being at home...not just school. __________________ Smile It makes people wonder what you're up too!

09-01-2003, 10:38 AM	#15 (permalink)
H12 I'm not about getting creamed, I'm about winning! Location: K-Town, TN	That's gotta be the youngest suicide I've heard of. Yikes. __________________ "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit." --Aristotle

09-01-2003, 11:47 AM	#16 (permalink)
bermuDa don't ignore this--> Location: CA	I'm sorry but I don't feel sorry for this dumb kid; I feel sorry for her parents. A part of going to school is learning how to cope with other people, not all of whom are buddy-buddy with you. Anyone who wasn't home schooled knows how cruel kids can be, and some of us have even considered suicide... but to act on that impulse?? That's a sign of immaturity and selfishness to the highest degree; and please don't remind me how young this kid was... do you think these youngsters would think it's ok to commit suicide if we dismissed them as deplorable acts of selfishness instead of tragedies? not that they aren't tragedies, but if we spoke more harshly of suicides these kids might not consider it such a viable option. They want to make a statement? They should do it by living, not by dying. If these kids want to end their suffering, they should talk to their parents about going to another school or home-schooling (or grow a tougher skin), not cause the suffering of their families who now have to live their lives without them. I wonder if these suicides even consider the lives they're affecting with their pathetic decision... and "they'll be sorry!" doesn't count. __________________ I am the very model of a moderator gentleman. Last edited by bermuDa; 09-01-2003 at 11:51 AM..

09-01-2003, 12:32 PM	#17 (permalink)
World's King Here Location: Denver City Denver	Raise your hand if you didn't get made fun of when you were 12. Anyone? No one... that's what I thought. __________________ heavy is the head that wears the crown

09-01-2003, 12:37 PM	#18 (permalink)
dnd Psycho Location: London...no longer a student	Bermuda i don't think after reading the poem that was apparantly written by jane that she committed suicide with the idea of "they'll be sorry" but instead with the idea that this was the only way she had of getting out of the truly depressing situation she found herself in. She tried the ways to sort her situation out that she knew, she was only 12....what else can she do except tell her parents and teachers? she should have told the teachers who exactly was bullying her but wouldn't that lead to more bullying for "knockin" on ur peers? i know in my school that most of the bullies were the "cool" kids with the friends who hung on to them and not what everyone says, the kids who were insecure with themselves... these bullies always had more friends then those kids who they picked on because it was easy..who would stand up to them? she should have also ignored the bullies, but why should she have been expected to tolerate the constant mental bullying every day at school? not condoning her actions but also feel there are always things we don't know about the situation. __________________ "Never underestimate a dumb question"-- Brandon Boyd

09-01-2003, 02:52 PM	#20 (permalink)
joe100 Banned	A person who commits suicide is very selfish. They don't understand that there are other people in the world who will be affected by what they have done. But I suppose that is the big thing that they don't get. Is that they affect other people. But they don't understand it, why don't they understand it? What are they missing? The times in my life when I was struggling and I thought about suicide it quickly became a bad idea because of how it would affect my family and friends. So I suppose if you do commit suicide, you don't understand how it will affect other people. You either don't care (selfish) or you truly do not see the connection between you and how you effect others. In some cases, suicide will happen eventually. Even when the family and friends do all the right things. That is how I see it.

09-01-2003, 04:54 PM	#22 (permalink)
bermuDa don't ignore this--> Location: CA	I was using 'dumb' as a generalization. She was dumb, her peers were dumb, all kids are dumb. I asked not to be reminded of her age because I figured people would say something like 'how mature can you be at 12?', which happened anyways... This isn't drugs or sex we're talking about, it's taking your own life. We tell kids it's the wrong thing to do they aren't gonna go out and try it. But if we treat it as a huge tragedy every time some kid cracks under the pressures of pre-pubescent life, they're going to think "hey if I do this I'll get all kinds of attention. People will cry over me and reminisce about what a great kid I was." Which brings me to a question: Has this sort of thing happened in previous generations? What kind of culture has this become when kids think violence towards themselves or others is a solution to their problems? Like I said, yes this is a tragedy but with all the publicity these tragedies get, they're just going to multiply. Committing suicide is a selfish act, whether the purpose is to hurt other people or because one can't handle the pressures of life. People who have thoughts of suicide have my sympathy, and if I know them I try to help them. People who commit it do not. If that's insensitivity then fine. __________________ I am the very model of a moderator gentleman.

09-02-2003, 11:27 AM	#23 (permalink)
SkanK0r Crazy	I'm with Halx. I could've done without the melodrama. In response to Bermuda: Saying suicide is a selfish act is a selfish act. While it's obvious that this kid was troubled and needed help, I don't understand how you can call her selfish. You're right, it DOES make you insensitive. It shows just how little you must know about what anyone in that situation might be going through. What kind of society do we live in, today? The kind of society where people are too cowardly to admit that there are problems that they don't want to deal with, so they choose to blame the victim. Last edited by SkanK0r; 09-02-2003 at 11:32 AM..

09-02-2003, 04:48 PM	#26 (permalink)
Gortexfogg I and I Location: Stillwater, OK	This is a very sad story. However, it didn't mention how she killed herself. I don't think it would have been bad taste to mention it in the article. Also, do the parents have any other kids? The writer could have put a little more information in.

09-02-2003, 05:18 PM	#27 (permalink)
shAzb0t Psycho Location: whereever my portable hard drive takes me	It says she was an only child, Gortexfogg, I think. The thing about kids that age is that the teasers have no idea of how cruel they can be.

09-02-2003, 05:21 PM	#28 (permalink)
shAzb0t Psycho Location: whereever my portable hard drive takes me	On another note, middle school is certainly the worst time to be teased in your school career. From grades 1-4, words are exchanged, kids scrape knees, etc. Sure, there is cruelty, but the kids don't take it to as long a length as suicide. In high school, most people are mature enough to take verbal insults..hazing is really the only thing to worry about, but that situation is getting better.

09-02-2003, 08:55 PM	#30 (permalink)
DelayedReaction BFG Builder Location: University of Maryland	What I don't understand is why the parents allowed her to stay in the school that was an obvious source of abuse. If the situation is serious enough to warrant the level of attention she was receiving, then it was certainly serious enough to warrant moving her to a different middle school. Or a private school. Or home schooling. But to leave things to fester is something I cannot fathom. They knew there was a problem, and that it was sufficient to cause her to cry for help multiple times. Did they even consider relocation to be a possibility? __________________ If ignorance is bliss, you must be having an orgasm.

09-03-2003, 02:39 AM	#32 (permalink)
billege Watcher Location: Ohio	On the less travelled path, I think the article was written in an overly dramatic fashion and it sensationalized a suicide that was preceeded by scribbles and notes that EVERY teenager writes at some point in their miserable existance. --Halx This article contains an amazing derth of information. Basically it says: A kid commited suicide because...well, we really don't know. Suckey article used to exploit a parents pain for copy sales. There's no story here, just a reporter jumping up and down screaming "Look, their kid died!" __________________ I can sum up the clash of religion in one sentence: "My Invisible Friend is better than your Invisible Friend."

09-03-2003, 03:24 AM	#33 (permalink)
Reese Delicious	Depression can do some strange things to your thinking. It's pretty obvious she was Manic-Depressive. being severly depressed made the teasing 10x worse than it was already. I'm sorry for the girl that she didn't get the help she needed. __________________ “It is better to be rich and healthy than poor and sick” - Dave Barry

09-03-2003, 10:51 AM	#34 (permalink)
CapnWaffle Upright Location: Yakima, WA	That story's pretty freaking sad. But, as other's have pointed out, the way the article is written is distracting. I mean, did the reporter think they were being clever with all the school references? A kid, only in middle school, fucking killed herself. It just rubbed me the wrong way.

09-03-2003, 11:37 AM	#35 (permalink)
cradeg Insane Location: Austria	sad i only hope all gets better in the afterlife ... its so tragic when someone decides to take his own life __________________ *************************** For every human problem, there is a neat, simple solution; and it is always wrong. ****************************