Muslim raises dispute over labeling of meat - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

sixate · 08-02-2003, 12:37 PM

LINKY

Quote:

Muslim raises dispute over labeling of meat

FREMONT MAN SAYS UNMARKED PORK WAS IN BEEF SECTION; STORE DEFENDS PRACTICES
By Lisa Fernandez
Mercury News

As a practicing Muslim, Faraj Tabari had never let pig products touch his lips. Until this summer.

On June 6 at Fremont's Food Maxx, the Palestinian immigrant bought a package of boneless ``country style ribs,'' which he intended to use in a delicacy called paya, traditionally made with cow's feet. He claims the package wasn't labeled and was sitting in the beef section. Not being a pork eater or a native to this country, he says he didn't realize ``country style ribs'' means pork.

But upon tasting his dinner, he was sure something was wrong.

``When I ate it, the texture was different than anything I ever had before,'' said the 44-year-old laid-off Caltrans civil engineer from Fremont.

When he returned to the store and a manager told him the meat was pork, Tabari threw the rest out. Then he threw up. He washed out his cooking pot with chlorine and sterilized his dishwasher.

Now, he's hired a lawyer to demand Food Maxx stop peddling its pork products as generic meat, which the law firm alleges violates two state health codes.

Food Maxx meat managers on Thursday stood by their labeling practices, saying they always specify whether a product is beef or pork. But they couldn't explain why Tabari and his lawyers provided three labels from meat bought without the word ``pork'' on it.

Late in the day, Food Maxx spokeswoman Sally Sanborn said an investigation revealed it was a company mistake.

``It was a glitch in our computer that has been fixed,'' she said.

She said the company uncovered the problem as a result of Tabari's complaints and a letter sent by his lawyers July 28. ``We're now monitoring the situation,'' Sanborn said. ``Our policy is to label everything. We're sorry this happened.''

Farhan Memon, a legal assistant at San Francisco's Berschler Associates, which is representing Tabari, said the company's response is not good enough. He said the company had six weeks to figure out the problem after Tabari first complained, but that Food Maxx only responded when lawyers and the media began inquiring.

``How long was this problem going on beforehand?'' Memon asked. ``And how much harm already had been done?''

The meat mix-up highlights an important issue for the Bay Area's diverse shopping clientele. Muslims, and Jews as well, follow dietary rules that forbid them to eat anything made from pig.

``It's a very big deal,'' said Hamid Mavani, spiritual leader at Oakland's Islamic Cultural Center of Northern California. ``If it was mislabeled, it's a big issue from the Muslim perspective. It is as if you were to buy a soft drink and it turned out to be alcohol or wine. It should not be taken lightly.''

There are truth-in-labeling laws to make sure all consumers are protected. ``Consumers are entitled to know what they're getting,'' said Alameda County Assistant District Attorney Chris Carpenter, head of the consumer fraud unit. ``For religious reasons, some people don't want to eat pork, or they don't want to eat whatever. People should not be lied to.''

Carpenter prosecuted Safeway's Pak'n Save stores in 1993, after it was discovered some East Bay stores were mixing lamb, poultry and pork scraps into packages labeled ``fresh ground beef.'' The company paid a $6 million settlement. Carpenter said there haven't been any real mystery meat prosecutions in the county since.

Robin Wakshull, a consumer fraud assistant district attorney in Santa Clara County, said that people with certain allergies also may need to know what they're buying. She prosecuted the former chef at San Jose's Bella Mia restaurant when a Mercury News investigation in 2000 discovered he was substituting pork for veal, without the owner's knowledge, because he thought it was a superior meat product.

Food Maxx representatives insist they are not tricking the public.

Jim Pucci, a Food Maxx risk manager at corporate headquarters in Modesto, said he visited half a dozen Food Maxx stores in the Bay Area on Thursday and hadn't found any other labeling problems. He also said the Fremont store had tried to refund Tabari for all his groceries that day and would do anything to make him a ``happy camper.''

Tabari and his lawyers say they don't want any money but want the grocery chain to tighten up its labeling.

Sy El Seudy, the meat manager at Fremont's Food Maxx -- who, coincidentally, is Muslim himself -- wondered why, if Tabari were so devout, he was trying to buy regular beef instead of meat that is halal, or prepared according to Islamic law. Food Maxx carries a small selection of such meats.

Tabari said his wife usually does the shopping -- and buys halal -- but she was out of town when he made his fateful shopping trip. Sometimes, he buys meat at regular stores and blesses the food himself.

Mavani, from the Islamic cultural center, said one school of Sunni Muslim thought permits Muslims to eat non-halal meat as long as they make a prayer over the meal.

``It's not highly encouraged,'' Mavani said, ``but permissible.''

This makes me mental, and is only a small reason why I'll never believe in any religion. I swear religion causes people do to even more retarded things than a high weed smoker.

Now that I have that outa the way. This guy just isn't very bright if he can't tell the difference between pork and beef by looking at it. If he doesn't understand the way we label things in America then I suggest he move his ass back to the country he came from and he won't have a problem with shit like this. For this guy to compare pork/beef to a soft drink/alcohol is just dumb. I suggest this asshole take a huge bite of pork, choke on it, and die. The world will be a better place without stupid people like him.

I just had to add, I laughed my ass off when I read that he puked once he realized he ate pork.

Something else I just realized, I'm a mean prick.

Halx · 08-02-2003, 12:49 PM

sixate, without people like him, where would you get your laughs?

degarg · 08-02-2003, 12:53 PM

funny..

If the guy is so devout:

1) why buy non-halal meat in the first place
2) Why not make sure what meat he's buying.. ask the meat clerk before buying it.

It was probably labeled somewhere.. Non-labeled food is dangerous incase someone is allergic to something.. The point about non-labeled food is true though.. everything should be labeled..

he should have sued with out bringing in his stupid beliefs.. that messes up his entire case.

sixate · 08-02-2003, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Halx
sixate, without people like him, where would you get your laughs?

Heh, never thought of it that way.

miked10270 · 08-02-2003, 02:01 PM

OK, First off, while I understand the historical (& at that time practical) reasons for Kosher & Halal food, times change.

That said, While I wouldn't personally be so devout, I can accept and understand Tabari's disgust.

I think that the significant part of this story is:

"they (Food Maxx) always specify whether a product is beef or pork. But they couldn't explain why Tabari and his lawyers provided three labels from meat bought without the word ``pork'' on it."

In effect, their food labelling is inept & uncaring and they've been caught out.

The nearest analogy for WASPs I can think of is if Wal-Mart started a Funeral division & cadaver bits got mixed up with the chilled meat display. How upset would YOU be to find you've eaten human corpse... And would you accept "Whoops, computer glitch, but we've fixed it now" as an excuse.

You'd sue their arses off!

Small point Sixate... What's made both Britain and America truly great is the diversity of population and the willingness to accept the best of foreign culture, absorb it, and thus enrich British / US culture. What is the name of your language? Your national capital is named for which North-East English aristocrat & his family? What nation gave you "Liberte"? Like "Pizza" with your six-pack pf "Pilsener" (Plzen) beer? or do you prefer "Chow mein"? "Chop Suey"? Tacos? "Burritos"? "Whiskey"? Does your car / truck engine run on the "Otto" 4 stroke cycle? Is it a "Diesel"? Do you use "Soap"? Go to the "Toilet"? Use "Shampoo" on your hair? Would America have landed on the moon without Von Braun and all the other Germans?

Or do you still sit in your teepee eating buffalo jerky, your dead children & Rattlesnake?

Mike.

tenchi069 · 08-02-2003, 02:27 PM

While i think the corpse analogy is a bit harsh, I think it is more the equivalent to a westerner being served domestic cat or dog while being told it was beef/pork/poultry. I don't want to eat cat, dog, or pork. These are personal preferences of mine. I also shouldn't have to ask the workers if a particular unlabeled meat is a specific type IF it is in the beef section. How often do you ask the store manager if the milk you buy is from a cow and not a goat? What seems unimportant to you is to someone else. Open up your mind and your eyes and you just may see something new.

theguyondacouch · 08-02-2003, 02:29 PM

'Or do you still sit in your teepee eating buffalo jerky, your dead children & Rattlesnake?"

YOu had me up till there. You rascist prick!goddamnit, thats unmuthafucin' called for!

ARTelevision · 08-02-2003, 02:40 PM

degarg,
You got it right.
They have specialty stores for just these types of requirements.

But I'd bet dollars to donuts that Food Maxx will tighten up their labeling, no matter what the outcome.

The_Dude · 08-02-2003, 02:47 PM

hahaa haha, that is freaking HILARIOUS.

he should've known.

miked10270 · 08-02-2003, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by theguyondacouch
'Or do you still sit in your teepee eating buffalo jerky, your dead children & Rattlesnake?"

YOu had me up till there. You rascist prick!goddamnit, thats unmuthafucin' called for!

Yeah... An apology IS deserved for that.

The point I wanted to make was: Just how "American" are you?

Mike.

sixate · 08-02-2003, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by miked10270
The nearest analogy for WASPs I can think of is if Wal-Mart started a Funeral division & cadaver bits got mixed up with the chilled meat display. How upset would YOU be to find you've eaten human corpse... And would you accept "Whoops, computer glitch, but we've fixed it now" as an excuse.

You'd sue their arses off!

Small point Sixate... What's made both Britain and America truly great is the diversity of population and the willingness to accept the best of foreign culture, absorb it, and thus enrich British / US culture. What is the name of your language? Your national capital is named for which North-East English aristocrat & his family? What nation gave you "Liberte"? Like "Pizza" with your six-pack pf "Pilsener" (Plzen) beer? or do you prefer "Chow mein"? "Chop Suey"? Tacos? "Burritos"? "Whiskey"? Does your car / truck engine run on the "Otto" 4 stroke cycle? Is it a "Diesel"? Do you use "Soap"? Go to the "Toilet"? Use "Shampoo" on your hair? Would America have landed on the moon without Von Braun and all the other Germans?

Or do you still sit in your teepee eating buffalo jerky, your dead children & Rattlesnake?

Mike.

If I ate human flesh because of a computer glitch and I didn't even notice and liked it I wouldn't give a crap. It's over and done with. I'd sue, but only because it would be a great pay day. Not because I was so horrified and vomited because of my weak lame ass religious beliefs.

Lastly, you had a great point going until the last line. Good way to screw it up.

tinfoil · 08-02-2003, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sixate

Something else I just realized, I'm a mean prick.

You're labeled though

This is so stupid on both sides. I mean, shit.. he ate pork.... Get over it. It's not like he's going to hell for not being able to tell the difference.

Second, the store's method was misleading, It's pork but not labeled as pork. It's in the beef section. Ya, they look different and stuff and ya it shouldn't require a fricken flashing neon sign, but it seesms we have to play to the lowest common demoninator here.

Nisses · 08-02-2003, 05:01 PM

atheist or not, respect and tolerance of people that do apply a moral code set and tested through time could apply. Weak lame-ass religious beliefs are what most people use to put some standard and moral code into their lives.

This is not atheist bashing, because I know some (atheists) that do have their own moral code, which they have thoroughly thought through and live by. Just that you could respect them for what they believe in.

And if you did eat human flesh, I think you would still take a serious moment to think about it.

The compagny made a mistake in their careless labelling and seems to come across as extremely patronising (happy camper? djeez) But Tabari could have been more attentive or just asked for information. If you generally use cow's feet, the link to ribs isn't exactly what I would call logical.

sta500 · 08-02-2003, 06:08 PM

What a damn pussy.

Memalvada · 08-02-2003, 06:38 PM

I agree w/ tinfoil. The muslim dude obviously over-reacted, and the store should have labeled their products properly.

And I also agree with mike about how important individulas from different cultures are for society.

Phaenx · 08-02-2003, 07:04 PM

Shame Muslims can't eat pigs, they're tastey animals.

billege · 08-02-2003, 11:04 PM

I may be some supergenious exception here, but pork is fucking white and beef is goddamn red.

I've NEVER bought meat I didn't intend to.

This guy is an idiot, no matter what his beliefs, he is fucking stupid.

If you can't buy a fucking slab of meat without a consumer protection guide, please, blow your fucking head off and improve the genepool.

Stiltzkin · 08-02-2003, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Phaenx
Shame Muslims can't eat pigs, they're tastey animals.

Concur. All else I wanted to say has been said, except...

Quote:

``How long was this problem going on beforehand?'' Memon asked. ``And how much harm already had been done?''

Harm? What harm, you religious zealot? I'm feeling cynical right now, and I have a good mind to go to India (or wherever these people reside-- yes, I am ingorant [not atypical of being an American...]) and slaughtering all their cows and dragging them into the Indian Ocean, and then replacing all their cow farms (again, excuse my ignorance) with pigs

What would they do then? Have cows imported? Jeezus-fraggin-christ.

Ok. Enough said. I hope to never have to sound so ingorant again (although I will again if necessary...)

Cynthetiq · 08-03-2003, 12:14 AM

waste of legal resources, time, money, and pork.... well more for me and Homer.

redravin40 · 08-03-2003, 08:29 AM

Not commenting on the religious aspect of the case (since he's not asking for money, just better labeling, I don't think he's scamming) but on the responsibilities of the store.
When I was a meat cutter we wouldn't even use different cuts of beef without labeling them properly (unlike some places that will replace tougher cuts).
It was a point of pride.
Not labeling properly is sloppy, unprofessional, and an indication of bad management.

BBtB · 08-03-2003, 10:23 AM

First off, I am seeing alot of religous intolerance. I am glad we all have the maturity of a 6 year old. He is not asking for money. He is just asking for proper labeling so he can live his life the way he wishes to live it. He is not asking you to do the same. He just doesn't want to eat pork. It IS the stores responsiblty to properly label everything. What if this was for allergy reasons? Would you support it then? And another thing, we are talking about is pork ribs here, I am sorry to tell you this but pork ribs and beef ribs DO look alot alike. They are NOT white and red. They are both typically a sorta brownish color. I guarantee that if I was to put a slab of pork ribs and a slab of beef ribs in a pan and didn't label them and asked you to pick which one is which you would have a hard time too.

billege · 08-03-2003, 10:26 PM

And YOU are excusing his ignorance.

BBtB, you are letting this man escape responsibility for his own actions. This disease is crippling the 21st century in America, and the world.

Of course it's not HIS fault...(extreme sarcasm)

I don't need to act like a 6 year old to support my stance.

I'll give the guy the benefit of the doubt, he honestly has strong beliefs. Fine, good for him.

The meat was labeled, damn it, but he "says he didn't realize "country style ribs'' means pork."

When did ignorance not only become an excuse, but when did it shift the responsibility to the other party as well?

He's an immigrant. That means he's going to have to make the effort to live in a foreign society. He gets to have his beliefs, and he gets to TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for them! That means if he doesn't know what the label means, he needs to ask.

Period. End of story. There are no excuses, addendums, or alternatives.

He saw the LABEL. The label said "COUNTRY STYLE RIBS." He ASSUMED that meant beef.

HE didn't ask what it meant.
His mistake, he needs to own it. The rest of you need to stop trying to excuse it.

"..why, if Tabari were so devout, he was trying to buy regular beef instead of meat that is halal, or prepared according to Islamic law. Food Maxx carries a small selection of such meats. (emphasis mine).

If the wifey usually does the shopping I can understand him not being used to the labels. However, if the store already accommodates his beliefs by carrying Halal meats, he could have compensated for his ignorance by playing it safe and staying in the Halal section.
He didn't, did he? In fact, I think this guy was out to save money. I'll bet that the Halal meat is a shade more expensive.

But, this dude was maybe not able to swing it; but, apparently his wife can buy it, so who knows what the money issue is.
Either way, this guy is not as careful as someone truly devout would be. That's HIS fault.

"Sometimes, he buys meat at regular stores and blesses the food himself."

"Mavani, from the Islamic cultural center, said one school of Sunni Muslim thought permits Muslims to eat non-halal meat as long as they make a prayer over the meal."

"It's not highly encouraged,'' Mavani said, ``but permissible.''

I'll tell you something else too, he was going to make
"a delicacy called paya, traditionally made with cow's feet."

COWS FEET does not translate to "country style ribs!" I can understand not knowing what "country style ribs" means. What I can't understand is buying "ribs" when you need COWS FEET for your delicacy.

I also can't understand asking a simple question, if such an important belief is an issue.

I also can't understand why so many people stopped believing in personal responsibility.

I just don't understand.

Cynthetiq · 08-04-2003, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BBtB
And another thing, we are talking about is pork ribs here, I am sorry to tell you this but pork ribs and beef ribs DO look alot alike. They are NOT white and red. They are both typically a sorta brownish color. I guarantee that if I was to put a slab of pork ribs and a slab of beef ribs in a pan and didn't label them and asked you to pick which one is which you would have a hard time too.

No they do not look anything alike.... beef ribs are much larger than pork ribs.

Even after they are cooked, pork ribss are still smaller than beef ribs.

Beef Ribs (Back Ribs, Texas Ribs)
Will generally consist of seven ribs (with intercostal meat attached). Beef ribs are the ribs removed from the Prime Rib during the boning process in making a boned and tied rib roast or when boning for lip on Rib Eyes.

The thoracic vertebrae shall be removed, although a small portion of vertebrae may remain at the rib end. The normal length of a beef rib shall be not less than six inches nor more than eight inches in length. Back Ribs may be separated into portions by cutting between the ribs for their entire length. They may also be separated into strips by cutting parallel at an approximate right angle the length of the rib.

Info on
pork ribs

splck · 08-04-2003, 08:46 AM

The store fucked up and they admitted as much. End of story. Proper packaging and labeling is important, maybe not to you, but it is to somepeople. The fact that he's an immigrant is a moot point. What he did or wanted to do with the meat doesn’t matter. Anyone complaining that he should have known better and starts bringing up the word immigrant and all that shit is out to lunch IMHO.

Cynthetiq: Thanks for the lesson on ribs

billege · 08-04-2003, 09:51 AM

Immigrant is not a dirty word for crying out loud.

I brought that fact up becuase it explains why he shouldn't be expected to know what "country syle ribs" means.

I'd expect a good ole southern boy to know what country style ribs are, without further explanation. I wouldn't expect an IMMIGRANT from the phillipnes to know the same thing. If I IMMIGRATED to someone else's country I'd hope they wouldn't expect me to know all of thier terms without explanation either.

I also didn't say he should have known better. MY WHOLE FUCKING POINT is that he shouldn't have been expected to have known that "country style ribs" means pork.
Why shouldn't he expected to know? "Country Style Ribs" is a more or less local (USA) term, and he's NOT FROM HERE!
My FOLLOWING POINT is that since he shouldn't be expected to know HE SHOULD HAVE ASKED! He didn't ask, his fault.

Did you even bother to read my post? Or did you just see the word "immigrant" and decide to get all inflamed?

BBtB · 08-04-2003, 02:19 PM

Cynthetiq, yes. If you know what to look like for you can tell the difference. What I am saying, though is if you don't know what to look for, and even more so if you are from a culture where you would never see pork ribs before. I never knew before I read this article that country style ribs means pork. Legally it should say pork on it. Enough people in the world care to much about that for it not to. Some people in this world just don't want to eat certain animals. Wether it be for religous reasons or just personal reasons. He shouldn't have had to find an employee to ask what kind of meat he was buying. It should be on the label. Period. Yes, He WAS ignorant about a few things. Namely the difference in looks between pork and beef ribs and the terminology used. We all act like ignorance is some sort of defect. Or a sign of stupidity. When of course he probably knows a whole hell of alot more about our culture then we know about his. And yea maybe you could say that because he lives here he should know as much as a native. What would you do if you were to go overseas? Just get dropped off in Japan and suddenly speak the languge fluently? Just because you are there you know all of their traditions and customs. The funny little nuance of it all. Or maybe you would study the culture first. Devote 10 years of your life to reading books on Japan and watching sailor moon. Now of course I realize he is not from Japan, that was just an example of a culture completly unlike our own. All I am saying is if you were to go there you would make just bad ignorant mistakes.

billege · 08-04-2003, 05:50 PM

I would make mistakes in another culture.

Of course, I'm not afraid to expose my ignorance, so I'd ask questions about things I'd be unsure of.

If I went to live in Japan, do I get to blame my mistakes on Japanese culture?

NO, I think not. My mistakes would be my own. I would take sole responsibility for them. I sure as hell would not blame the Japanese grocery store for failing to anticipate the personal problems of every person, from every ethnicity, from every country, speaking every language, with every belief, who might wander into the store witout the willingness to ask a simple question.

If I had a personal belief not to eat seaweed, and I couldn't decide if a package held that, or some lettuce, I WOULD ASK.

Or maybe I wouldn't. Maybe I'd sue the supermarket for not accomodating people who don't know the language, and are afraid to find an employee to ask a question of.

The only stupid question is the one not asked.

He never asked if it was pork.

Why is that so hard to see?

DEI37 · 08-04-2003, 06:17 PM

I agree, billege. At least he's not suing for money. I do agree that the store messed up, and they DID own up to it. The guy won't, though, and that's where part of the problem lies. The lawfirm is messed up as well. They say the stores' response isn't good enough. That's just pathetic. They want money. That's the other part of the problem.
However, in my opinion, a lawfirm should NEVER have been brought in to this. THis guy got stupid when the store offered to refund him for the ENTIRE grocery purchase...not just the ribs, but EVERYTHING. That, along with a written apology, and a pledge to fix the problem would have satisfied me in this situation. He has ulterior motives, I think, and the lawfirm will exploit them if they need to. It's dumb. I agree with you, billege, on just about everything. You're absolutely correct.

Frowning Budah · 08-04-2003, 06:50 PM

From a country that makes restaurants put a warning on their coffee cups thats says warning contents may be hot, I don't think it is asking so much to make a store label the meat. I believe that is the law. Which is meant to protect people born here, people immigrating here and people who aren't even suppose to be here. This isn't really a religious question.

08-02-2003, 12:49 PM	#2 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	sixate, without people like him, where would you get your laughs? __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

08-02-2003, 02:27 PM	#6 (permalink)
tenchi069 Lost Location: One step closer to the padded cell...	While i think the corpse analogy is a bit harsh, I think it is more the equivalent to a westerner being served domestic cat or dog while being told it was beef/pork/poultry. I don't want to eat cat, dog, or pork. These are personal preferences of mine. I also shouldn't have to ask the workers if a particular unlabeled meat is a specific type IF it is in the beef section. How often do you ask the store manager if the milk you buy is from a cow and not a goat? What seems unimportant to you is to someone else. Open up your mind and your eyes and you just may see something new. __________________ ERROR- PLBSAK Problem Lies Between Seat and Keyboard.

08-02-2003, 02:29 PM	#7 (permalink)
theguyondacouch salmon? Location: Outside Providence	'Or do you still sit in your teepee eating buffalo jerky, your dead children & Rattlesnake?" YOu had me up till there. You rascist prick!goddamnit, thats unmuthafucin' called for! __________________ "Lick my frozen metal ass!"

08-02-2003, 02:40 PM	#8 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	degarg, You got it right. They have specialty stores for just these types of requirements. But I'd bet dollars to donuts that Food Maxx will tighten up their labeling, no matter what the outcome. __________________ create evolution

08-02-2003, 02:47 PM	#9 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	hahaa haha, that is freaking HILARIOUS. he should've known. __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

08-02-2003, 12:53 PM	#3 (permalink)
degarg Tilted	funny.. If the guy is so devout: 1) why buy non-halal meat in the first place 2) Why not make sure what meat he's buying.. ask the meat clerk before buying it. It was probably labeled somewhere.. Non-labeled food is dangerous incase someone is allergic to something.. The point about non-labeled food is true though.. everything should be labeled.. he should have sued with out bringing in his stupid beliefs.. that messes up his entire case.

08-02-2003, 02:01 PM	#5 (permalink)
miked10270 Banned Location: Scotland	OK, First off, while I understand the historical (& at that time practical) reasons for Kosher & Halal food, times change. That said, While I wouldn't personally be so devout, I can accept and understand Tabari's disgust. I think that the significant part of this story is: "they (Food Maxx) always specify whether a product is beef or pork. But they couldn't explain why Tabari and his lawyers provided three labels from meat bought without the word ``pork'' on it." In effect, their food labelling is inept & uncaring and they've been caught out. The nearest analogy for WASPs I can think of is if Wal-Mart started a Funeral division & cadaver bits got mixed up with the chilled meat display. How upset would YOU be to find you've eaten human corpse... And would you accept "Whoops, computer glitch, but we've fixed it now" as an excuse. You'd sue their arses off! Small point Sixate... What's made both Britain and America truly great is the diversity of population and the willingness to accept the best of foreign culture, absorb it, and thus enrich British / US culture. What is the name of your language? Your national capital is named for which North-East English aristocrat & his family? What nation gave you "Liberte"? Like "Pizza" with your six-pack pf "Pilsener" (Plzen) beer? or do you prefer "Chow mein"? "Chop Suey"? Tacos? "Burritos"? "Whiskey"? Does your car / truck engine run on the "Otto" 4 stroke cycle? Is it a "Diesel"? Do you use "Soap"? Go to the "Toilet"? Use "Shampoo" on your hair? Would America have landed on the moon without Von Braun and all the other Germans? Or do you still sit in your teepee eating buffalo jerky, your dead children & Rattlesnake? Mike.

08-02-2003, 05:01 PM	#13 (permalink)
Nisses Shade Location: Belgium	atheist or not, respect and tolerance of people that do apply a moral code set and tested through time could apply. Weak lame-ass religious beliefs are what most people use to put some standard and moral code into their lives. This is not atheist bashing, because I know some (atheists) that do have their own moral code, which they have thoroughly thought through and live by. Just that you could respect them for what they believe in. And if you did eat human flesh, I think you would still take a serious moment to think about it. The compagny made a mistake in their careless labelling and seems to come across as extremely patronising (happy camper? djeez) But Tabari could have been more attentive or just asked for information. If you generally use cow's feet, the link to ribs isn't exactly what I would call logical. __________________ Moderation should be moderately moderated.

08-02-2003, 06:08 PM	#14 (permalink)
sta500 Tilted	What a damn pussy.

08-02-2003, 06:38 PM	#15 (permalink)
Memalvada Psycho Location: South of the border	I agree w/ tinfoil. The muslim dude obviously over-reacted, and the store should have labeled their products properly. And I also agree with mike about how important individulas from different cultures are for society. __________________ "The weak are food for the strong, so die and let me feast!" - Makoto Shishio (RK)

08-02-2003, 07:04 PM	#16 (permalink)
Phaenx The Northern Ward Location: Columbus, Ohio	Shame Muslims can't eat pigs, they're tastey animals. __________________ "I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy

08-02-2003, 11:04 PM	#17 (permalink)
billege Watcher Location: Ohio	I may be some supergenious exception here, but pork is fucking white and beef is goddamn red. I've NEVER bought meat I didn't intend to. This guy is an idiot, no matter what his beliefs, he is fucking stupid. If you can't buy a fucking slab of meat without a consumer protection guide, please, blow your fucking head off and improve the genepool. __________________ I can sum up the clash of religion in one sentence: "My Invisible Friend is better than your Invisible Friend."

08-03-2003, 12:14 AM	#19 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	waste of legal resources, time, money, and pork.... well more for me and Homer. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

08-03-2003, 08:29 AM	#20 (permalink)
redravin40 Loser Location: With Jadzia	Not commenting on the religious aspect of the case (since he's not asking for money, just better labeling, I don't think he's scamming) but on the responsibilities of the store. When I was a meat cutter we wouldn't even use different cuts of beef without labeling them properly (unlike some places that will replace tougher cuts). It was a point of pride. Not labeling properly is sloppy, unprofessional, and an indication of bad management.

08-03-2003, 10:23 AM	#21 (permalink)
BBtB ClerkMan! Location: Tulsa, Ok.	First off, I am seeing alot of religous intolerance. I am glad we all have the maturity of a 6 year old. He is not asking for money. He is just asking for proper labeling so he can live his life the way he wishes to live it. He is not asking you to do the same. He just doesn't want to eat pork. It IS the stores responsiblty to properly label everything. What if this was for allergy reasons? Would you support it then? And another thing, we are talking about is pork ribs here, I am sorry to tell you this but pork ribs and beef ribs DO look alot alike. They are NOT white and red. They are both typically a sorta brownish color. I guarantee that if I was to put a slab of pork ribs and a slab of beef ribs in a pan and didn't label them and asked you to pick which one is which you would have a hard time too. __________________ Meridae'n once played "death" at a game of chess that lasted for over two years. He finally beat death in a best 34 out of 67 match. At that time he could ask for any one thing and he could wish for the hope of all mankind... he looked death right in the eye and said ... "I would like about three fiddy"

08-03-2003, 10:26 PM	#22 (permalink)
billege Watcher Location: Ohio	And YOU are excusing his ignorance. BBtB, you are letting this man escape responsibility for his own actions. This disease is crippling the 21st century in America, and the world. Of course it's not HIS fault...(extreme sarcasm) I don't need to act like a 6 year old to support my stance. I'll give the guy the benefit of the doubt, he honestly has strong beliefs. Fine, good for him. The meat was labeled, damn it, but he <b>"says he didn't realize "country style ribs'' means pork."</b> When did ignorance not only become an excuse, but when did it shift the responsibility to the other party as well? He's an immigrant. That means he's going to have to make the effort to live in a foreign society. He gets to have his beliefs, and he gets to TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for them! That means if he doesn't know what the label means, he needs to ask. Period. End of story. There are no excuses, addendums, or alternatives. He saw the LABEL. The label said "COUNTRY STYLE RIBS." He <i><b>ASSUMED</i></b> that meant beef. HE didn't ask what it meant. His mistake, he needs to own it. The rest of you need to stop trying to excuse it. <b>"..why, if Tabari were so devout, he was trying to buy regular beef instead of meat that is halal, or prepared according to Islamic law. <i>Food Maxx carries a small selection of such meats.</i></b> (emphasis mine). If the wifey usually does the shopping I can understand him not being used to the labels. However, if the store already accommodates his beliefs by carrying Halal meats, he could have compensated for his ignorance by playing it safe and staying in the Halal section. He didn't, did he? In fact, I think this guy was out to save money. I'll bet that the Halal meat is a shade more expensive. But, this dude was maybe not able to swing it; but, apparently his wife can buy it, so who knows what the money issue is. Either way, this guy is not as careful as someone truly devout would be. That's HIS fault. <b>"Sometimes, he buys meat at regular stores and blesses the food himself." "Mavani, from the Islamic cultural center, said one school of Sunni Muslim thought permits Muslims to eat non-halal meat as long as they make a prayer over the meal." "It's not highly encouraged,'' Mavani said, ``but permissible.''</b> I'll tell you something else too, he was going to make <b>"a delicacy called paya, traditionally made with cow's feet.</b>" COWS FEET does not translate to "country style ribs!" I can understand not knowing what "country style ribs" means. What I can't understand is buying "ribs" when you need COWS FEET for your delicacy. I also can't understand asking a simple question, if such an important belief is an issue. I also can't understand why so many people stopped believing in personal responsibility. I just don't understand. __________________ I can sum up the clash of religion in one sentence: "My Invisible Friend is better than your Invisible Friend." Last edited by billege; 08-03-2003 at 10:28 PM..

08-04-2003, 08:46 AM	#24 (permalink)
splck it's jam Location: Lowerainland BC	The store fucked up and they admitted as much. End of story. Proper packaging and labeling is important, maybe not to you, but it is to somepeople. The fact that he's an immigrant is a moot point. What he did or wanted to do with the meat doesn’t matter. Anyone complaining that he should have known better and starts bringing up the word immigrant and all that shit is out to lunch IMHO. Cynthetiq: Thanks for the lesson on ribs __________________ nice line eh?

08-04-2003, 09:51 AM	#25 (permalink)
billege Watcher Location: Ohio	Immigrant is not a dirty word for crying out loud. I brought that fact up becuase it explains why he shouldn't be expected to know what "country syle ribs" means. I'd expect a good ole southern boy to know what country style ribs are, without further explanation. I wouldn't expect an IMMIGRANT from the phillipnes to know the same thing. If I IMMIGRATED to someone else's country I'd hope they wouldn't expect me to know all of thier terms without explanation either. I also didn't say he should have known better. MY WHOLE FUCKING POINT is that he <i>shouldn't</i> have been expected to have known that "country style ribs" means pork. Why <i>shouldn't</i> he expected to know? "Country Style Ribs" is a more or less local (USA) term, and he's NOT FROM HERE! My FOLLOWING POINT is that since he shouldn't be expected to know HE SHOULD HAVE ASKED! He didn't ask, his fault. Did you even bother to read my post? Or did you just see the word "immigrant" and decide to get all inflamed? __________________ I can sum up the clash of religion in one sentence: "My Invisible Friend is better than your Invisible Friend." Last edited by billege; 08-04-2003 at 10:02 AM..

08-04-2003, 02:19 PM	#26 (permalink)
BBtB ClerkMan! Location: Tulsa, Ok.	Cynthetiq, yes. If you know what to look like for you can tell the difference. What I am saying, though is if you don't know what to look for, and even more so if you are from a culture where you would never see pork ribs before. I never knew before I read this article that country style ribs means pork. Legally it should say pork on it. Enough people in the world care to much about that for it not to. Some people in this world just don't want to eat certain animals. Wether it be for religous reasons or just personal reasons. He shouldn't have had to find an employee to ask what kind of meat he was buying. It should be on the label. Period. Yes, He WAS ignorant about a few things. Namely the difference in looks between pork and beef ribs and the terminology used. We all act like ignorance is some sort of defect. Or a sign of stupidity. When of course he probably knows a whole hell of alot more about our culture then we know about his. And yea maybe you could say that because he lives here he should know as much as a native. What would you do if you were to go overseas? Just get dropped off in Japan and suddenly speak the languge fluently? Just because you are there you know all of their traditions and customs. The funny little nuance of it all. Or maybe you would study the culture first. Devote 10 years of your life to reading books on Japan and watching sailor moon. Now of course I realize he is not from Japan, that was just an example of a culture completly unlike our own. All I am saying is if you were to go there you would make just bad ignorant mistakes. __________________ Meridae'n once played "death" at a game of chess that lasted for over two years. He finally beat death in a best 34 out of 67 match. At that time he could ask for any one thing and he could wish for the hope of all mankind... he looked death right in the eye and said ... "I would like about three fiddy"

08-04-2003, 05:50 PM	#27 (permalink)
billege Watcher Location: Ohio	I would make mistakes in another culture. Of course, I'm not afraid to expose my ignorance, so I'd ask questions about things I'd be unsure of. If I went to live in Japan, do I get to blame my mistakes on Japanese culture? NO, I think not. My mistakes would be my own. I would take sole responsibility for them. I sure as hell would not blame the Japanese grocery store for failing to anticipate the personal problems of every person, from every ethnicity, from every country, speaking every language, with every belief, who might wander into the store witout the willingness to ask a simple question. If I had a personal belief not to eat seaweed, and I couldn't decide if a package held that, or some lettuce, I WOULD ASK. Or maybe I wouldn't. Maybe I'd sue the supermarket for not accomodating people who don't know the language, and are afraid to find an employee to ask a question of. The only stupid question is the one not asked. He never asked if it was pork. Why is that so hard to see? __________________ I can sum up the clash of religion in one sentence: "My Invisible Friend is better than your Invisible Friend." Last edited by billege; 08-04-2003 at 05:59 PM..

08-04-2003, 06:17 PM	#28 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	I agree, billege. At least he's not suing for money. I do agree that the store messed up, and they DID own up to it. The guy won't, though, and that's where part of the problem lies. The lawfirm is messed up as well. They say the stores' response isn't good enough. That's just pathetic. They want money. That's the other part of the problem. However, in my opinion, a lawfirm should NEVER have been brought in to this. THis guy got stupid when the store offered to refund him for the ENTIRE grocery purchase...not just the ribs, but EVERYTHING. That, along with a written apology, and a pledge to fix the problem would have satisfied me in this situation. He has ulterior motives, I think, and the lawfirm will exploit them if they need to. It's dumb. I agree with you, billege, on just about everything. You're absolutely correct. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

08-04-2003, 06:50 PM	#29 (permalink)
Frowning Budah Slave of Fear	From a country that makes restaurants put a warning on their coffee cups thats says warning contents may be hot, I don't think it is asking so much to make a store label the meat. I believe that is the law. Which is meant to protect people born here, people immigrating here and people who aren't even suppose to be here. This isn't really a religious question.