Martian

You'd be surprised how often I get that.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

Shauk

that's fine by me, but don't quote me like it's not something that I know about.

1. People don't know where I am when they call me, I don't have a GPS probe stuck in my ass, nor hand out ASSociated tracking devices. (I'm so fucking clever, or good at pointing out obvious puns, i'll vote myself the captain obvious award now kthx)
2. Texting is often an additional fee with many service providers, sending or recieving.
3. Not everyone who calls me is on a cell phone.
4. not every cell phone has text capability (yeah hard to believe but people still use dialup too)
5. I don't need to "learn" how to text, I'm well aware of how to do it, and it's not nearly as efficient as verbal communication.

That said, I get PLENTY of texts, I usually have to delete my inbox at least once every other day. People don't call me unless..

it's important
it's urgent
they're unfamiliar with texting or don't even know that it's a cell phone they are calling (like said future landlord) (now CURRENT landlord, btw)
It's too complicated of a subject to type about with a 160 character limit.
Would require enough Q&A that it would drag a 30s phone call out in to a 10 minute data exchange.


anyways, imagine all the posts in this thread as exchanges between 2 people on a cell phone, and that everyone types about 3-5 wpm, and that every 160 char, theres a 10 second pause as the message is sent, and a new text dialogue is selected, and then the recipient is defined. I'd rather call them and read it off really quick and be done with it

nerfgangsta

man every thing u did was cool but then you totally ruined it all by grabbing her cell and now your whole message means nothing u had no right to grab her cell

jewels

Then go someplace where you aren't infringing on the rights of others who have no other quiet place to go.

A public library isn't an appropriate homebase for a business. There are no signs to proclaim it, it's just common sense and decency.

I guess someone needs to write out a "rules of cell phone use" for those who put their needs before all others and show no respect for others.

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We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
Mark Twain

Shauk

and thats why the libraries who have this kind of rule DO put up signs.

I'm talking about the ones that dont.

and really isn't this an argument over which person should be inconvenienced? The person who is oversensitive and cannot focus with the slightest normal level of distraction vs the self righteous motormouth with a cell phone?

I don't see the need to accommodate the mentally weak willed in the absense of rules that protect them. If there are signs, or even an "ambiance" that conveys silence, I honor it, however, NOT EVERY LIBRARY has the same vibe to it.

In the OP, if there was a sign posted, then yeah, the woman with the cell phone was a bippy twat and deserved the scolding.
If not, then the OP made somewhat of an over assertion against the "offender"

it's all circumstance

allaboutmusic

I always thought it was an unspoken rule, like the way most toilets don't have signs that say "Please urinate in the urinal or the toilet bowl", or the way pavements don't always have signs saying "don't drop your litter here".

I guess you think that people exercising at a gym who insist a smoke-free environment to be oversensitive too, or that the people who insist that their restaurant not smell like shit are oversensitive and can't eat without the slightest distraction?

Gyms are smoke-free so people can exercise healthily and in comfort (as it was designed to be used). Restaurants don't smell like shit so people can enjoy their food. And libraries are quiet so people can study in peace.

Mentally weak willed? Dude, seriously... are you trolling or something?

If the OP got annoyed enough with the offender, it's likely that everyone else in the library was being quiet. So it is likely to be one of those libraries where quiet is implicitly expected.

caver

What an amazing discussion. By amazing, I mean, I am amazed by the idea that people here do not agree on the general premise that a library is intended to be, in general a quiet place. I have no idea if the Library near me has a posted policy or not, but it drives me crazy when people cannot be bothered to place their phone on silent, much less, carry out an extended conversation about nothing. How can people not recognize that their actions can effect the experience of others, and therefore behave in a way appropriate for the situation.

Silence your phone.
Keep it short, or move to an appropriate area.

Why is this hard, or an inconvenience?




Culture is dead?

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"You never let the crack whore tie you up on the first date." (The_Jazz)

kcurrin

I hate those mosquito ringtones. As well as the rude people talking on them in inappropriate places.

Shauk

"Please urinate in the urinal or the toilet bowl"

"don't drop your litter here"

comparing written laws to public etiquette is a good way to have your argument tossed out the door. Personally, I don't care either way as to what people do in libraries. I use the internet to research what I need to research.

Insist, insist, insist and with a fucking documented reason, my cell phone isn't killing you.



care to back this up? there are documented reasons for the rulings against smoking in public places, where is your documented reason for silence in public places?

You tell me who's trolling after your sorry attempts to compare written law to unwritten ceremony. Way to focus on that line when just prior I said the oh so flattering "the self righteous motormouth with a cell phone"

I don't invest a care into the outcome of this argument either way, my opinions will change no minds, turn no heads, and really, this thread would have been dead 2 pages ago had there been no devil's advocate such as myself to go and challenge the "norm" of acceptable behavior.


Her outburst was far more disruptive than a phone conversation, throwing shit that belongs to other people?

I mean seriously, 90% of the people in this thread are justifying this outburst because this girl was being "rude"

There are far more civil ways to get your point across.

No offense to the OP, I just don't see why you couldn't notify a library employee if it was bothering you that much and if there were signs in place.

again, libraries by definition are no more than a repository of books in a public building. Rules vary depending on management.

It's an unwritten rule to tip, but people don't always tip. Same category in my mind. It's an optional etiquette ceremony.

Baraka_Guru

"Each of us puts his person and all his power in common under the supreme direction of the general will; and in a body we receive each member as an indivisible part of the whole."

-Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Oeuvres complètes

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Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

allaboutmusic

First of all Shauk, I apologise if I came across as making it personal. When I asked if you were trolling, it was out of incredulity rather than to provoke you. This discussion is interesting to me because it sheds a lot of light on what I see as increasingly common behaviour.

I concede that there are no laws regarding being quiet in a library - but I'm sure at some point there were no laws regarding smoking, shitting in public etc (possibly in part because the effects of smoking were not yet known). There are still no laws about farting in an enclosed space, but it's not cool to do so in a small restaurant for example! Surely even back then, the code of etiquette would have meant that people understood that it was still not socially acceptable behaviour?

Seems a little crazy that we should have to have laws for everything - I would have hoped that people are considerate enough to not need them.

I know talking in a library doesn't kill others, but it is likely to disrupt their focus. I'm really not sure why this isn't an acceptable reason... should something have to kill you before it is regarded as inappropriate?

Library etiquette:

http://media.www.studlife.com/media/...-1881920.shtml
http://www.csudh.edu/dearhabermas/library01.htm
http://www.lawsociety.sk.ca/newlook/.../etiquette.htm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/pda/A934887?s_id=3

And yes, I know, I know, it's etiquette and not law... but it is some effort at documentation.

See above regarding my trolling comment.

For the record, I do think someone speaking on a cell phone in a library is inconsiderate and unreasonable, and that a person who can't focus in a library due to aforementioned motormouth normal. Maybe that makes me weak-willed and unable to concentrate due to silence, but that might be why I go to a library!

Agreed.

Do I understand why she did it? Yes. Was it a little heavy-handed? Sure. Perhaps there was a more tactful way to handle it, but I appreciate why she reacted that way. I don't think road rage is appropriate either, but I can understand why it happens when people drive inconsiderately (and yes, I know, law vs etiquette).

I think it's reasonable to assume that if there are tables with chairs there, it is more than simply a repository of books. I won't rehash comments about library etiquette.

This is true - but we established in the other thread that people who don't tip are either ignorant of the realities of tipping, or aware but either cheap or disagree on how to handle tipping.

Also I think the issue of tipping your waiter is closer to an issue of how you treat the librarian - at the end of the day whether you tip your waiter or not doesn't affect other diners so much. For humourous value as much as anything else, I'll draw the parallel with farting in the restaurant. It might be fun for the farter, but it's not fair on the other people who would prefer to be able to enjoy their meal without it. Doesn't make them over-sensitive.

I suppose we simply disagree on whether libraries should be quiet or not.

Shauk

or would could agree that farting is AWESOME! end of thread!













I see your point though, it's good. You're right, and I do agree that it's good manners and positive etiquette to be quiet for the sole purpose of trying to respect the concentration of those around you. I just was saying that being my opinion, there are times when I could be honest here, in public, on tfp, and say, "yeah, there are phone calls I would take even under those circumstances" because it's simply a matter of me breaking etiquette to some people who, ultimately, at the end of MY day, don't matter to me. I don't know them. There are some scenario's in which my personal progress in life superceed that of the studious and silent. BUT hey, my situation is unique, I was stuck in a bad situation and answering my phone was like grabbing on to the lifeboat. Yeah, some other people might suffer getting a lil water splashed on them as I get into the boat 1st, but it's minor, they'll get to where they are going by the end of the day.

Rude? possibly, honest? brutally!

allaboutmusic

Well farting is awesome, but I digest. I mean, digress. As far as I'm concerned, what you fart when no one else is around is your business (literally).

I appreciate your good-natured response. In the spirit of full disclosure, I keep my phone on (silent) when I'm in the library, and use text messaging. There have been times when I've had to take an important call, and at those times I leave the library to take or return the call, then come back when I'm done. Everybody's happy.

settie

I see where you're coming from gg, I would have probably snapped at her if I was at my breaking point. But I would never blame PMS for it. You are in control of your feelings. I hate it when girls blame their actions and whatnot on PMS. Every woman with a working menstrual cycle bleeds and cramps and bloats each month, its a fact of life, get over it. Besides, by the time you turn 50, they'll be complaining about NOT having their period, and bitch about hot flashes and whatnot. *shakes head* It never ends. I see both ends of the spectrum every damn day, and it makes me humble...seriously.

Most people find that the reduction in one of the senses can improve the senses of another. For me, I'm practically legally blind, so my body made up for it by making me very hearing sensitive.

This is why I avoid studying/working in libraries. Even with headphones on, every noise around me distracts me, and I just waste my time. At my university, the main floor of every library on campus is a zoo....everyone's moving around so much, and talking loudly.

I only would go in there if I was in a cubicle, blasting music as I worked. Now, I don't even bother. The college I'm currently at must be filled with polite people. Because when anyone has a cell phone or pager go off in the middle of class, or in a test, they immediately turn it off, beet red in the face. hehe. I've never seen someone answer a phone in class. I guess I'm lucky.

I leave my cell phone always for emergencies. I'm kind of the backbone of the family, so i get called on for errands, pick ups, emergencies, etc. But I have voicemail, so if I get called in class, I set it immediately to voicemail, and if the call is important, they'll leave a message. if I get a message, I step out and see what the problem is. *shrugs*

Luckily, my cell ringer is quiet, barely noticeable. Just 4 repeated soft dings, like a major arpeggio /music geek
lol :P

lktknow

This really isn't off topic, seeing it is about cell phones, but not the library. I was in line at the bank the other day, and all of a sudden, the most ferocious sound of dogs was right behind me, I jumped out of my skin. It was the persons ring tone on their cell. Actually everyone jumped, it was so realistic sounding. No music, just the very loud sound of junk yard dogs at their angeriest. One woman had a little two year old by the hand, who immediately started screaming, and looking all around for the "mean doggies." For a few seconds it was a bit of chaos. The person who's cell phone it was, just answered it, like it was no big thing, oblivious to the rest of us.

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genuinegirly

Totally on topic - since my hope with this thread was to relate stories of cell phone annoyances and to try and find more healthy ways of communicating our frustrations over common cell phone-induced breeches of ettiquite. (since my gut-reaction to cell phone use in a library was admittedly terribly unhealthy)

That sounds terrifying. Who wouldn't notice that kind of a crowd response? Maybe he's just used to that response, or gets a kick out of it?

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milkyp

Somebody answered their phone while using the urinal next to me but he didnt miss a beat as he answered "What up dude, you kinda caught me with my dick in my hand"

lktknow

I used to work at a little independent meat market as a meat cutter. It was a service case and you had to wait on customers. Towards the end of the day, there was always a lot of clean up in the back, but we had a bell, and I could see the counter from the back. It totally amazed me at the number of people who would ring the bell, and as soon as I got out there, here they are on their cell phone. I would just turn and walk away from them, and the response was..."hey, hey, wait a minute, I want something" , So, I would turn around and go back to them, same thing, they would start talking on the cell. Walk away from them again, and they get IRATE..
I thought they would get the hint, but it seemed like I always had to explain, that I was not going to stand in front of them, until they decided to tell me what they wanted ,AFTER they got off the phone. I told them the nano second they knew what they wanted, I would be there, but I did not care to listen about the great party they went to last night, or like the other person said who's doing who....blah blah
I guess cell phones are here to stay, but me personally could live without them. i don't even like my land phone. How someone can talk on the phone for hours, and its not limited to women,has always intrigued me. Even as a teenager, never did it. A phone is a necessary evil, but you call the person for a reason , state the reason, case closed...??but, that is only my 2 cents.

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funydjane

Interesting discussion about cell phones and library etiquette. However, some of you have touched on a topic I'm still confused about.

Rather than whine and whine and whine about people's quiet and brief conversations (somehow the librarians are exempted), if the tiniest amount of noise bothers you that much, why not put on some headphones or in some earplugs?!

snowy

A lot of service counters and coffeeshops around here have put up signs saying they will not wait on people who are talking on cell phones. I think it's great, but it kind of saddens me that such a sign should be necessary.

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Fotzlid

People have become increasingly self-absorbed for some time now. All that matters is what they want to do and how it affects them, everyone else be damned. Cellphones, IMO, seems to have over-inflated that sense. A "you can't tell me when i can or can't talk to someone" attitude. Doesn't matter that they are holding up the line at the supermarket or bothering people at the library or driving erratically. So long as they get to do what they want.

Martian

Dude, blame the people and not the technology. Cell phones are great. I don't even have a land line and it's hugely convenient that when I go somewhere I can take my phone with me. I know when it is and isn't appropriate to carry on a conversation, though.

Some people are assholes. They've always been there, they always will be there. Having a cell phone allows them to be assholes in new and exciting ways, is all.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

Fotzlid

I wasn't blaming the technology.

allaboutmusic

I do actually. However I have tinnitus and wearing earplugs simply makes the tinnitus more audible and actually makes it harder for me to concentrate than in a quiet environment... it's hard to explain.

Martian

Tinnitus is nature's way of telling you to stop cranking the amp to 11.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

funydjane

Surely if you have tinnitus music or ambient noise is preferable to silence which, again, would amplify the tinnitus?

jewels

I don't have tinnitus and the library's always been a great place for quiet and concentration for myself or my kids' research projects. They know the rules and I've never noticed them posted.

There's this great Guy & Rodd comic strip I put up on the fridge in my workplace lunchroom. The panel shows some tables full of people and a woman on her phone at her own table. The caption reads "Excuse me, could everyone be quiet, I'm trying to talk on my cell phone."

To me, that says it all. The world doesn't revolve around your cellphone (or mine, for that matter). Please keep that in mind when you're waiting for someone to service you in person, when you're in a place where others are around. Keep in mind, also, your conversation and volume. Not everyone wants to hear the details of your sordid evening.

Is there anyone that has never been offended by anyone else's cell phone call? C'mon now.

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We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
Mark Twain

allaboutmusic

I don't - soundmen always joke that I set my amp way too quiet to be a guitarist. I've had tinnitus since I was pretty young; I remember hearing the ringing at night.

Ambient noise such as a quiet room as fine. There are low-level hums and so on which mask the tinnitus really well. I keep my computer on in my bedroom for this reason. Your mind tunes it out.

Talking however grabs the brain in a different way, I'm not sure why. Maybe my brain naturally tries to listen and work out what is being said, and I find it distracting when I'm trying to focus on something which is verbally orientated (or with an internal spoken monologue) like reading or thinking in word terms. I'm fine if I'm focusing on something non-verbal such as playing guitar.

raeanna74

Cell phones have no place in any environment where an extended conversation wouldn't be allowed. Normal people would not have a long conversation in a library, Dr's office, or class. Public transportation is questionable. If you get a call answer it and tell the person you'll call them back. Or at the very least keep the conversation QUIET. Most cell phones pick up sound very well an no one should have to talk at the volume that so many think they have to. I must admit I'm guilty of talking too loud at times but I tend to talk too loud in person sometimes too. It's a habit I've had since I was a kid and have tried to break for just as long.

At the very least, if someone is hearing your conversation (other than a family member at home) then it's probably not a good idea for talk on the phone for very long.

I went to a gas station the other day and some person had a blue tooth on their ear and was talking away when they walked up to the cash register. The cashier though they were talking to her and said "excuse me" and they replied "Oh I'm not talking to you." and rolled his eyes at her. After he left and I stepped up she huffed "I hate it when people do that and you think they're talking to YOU." I agreed with her and let her vent. He was rude to her to answer her that way.

Get off the phone when you are around other people (not just walking by) or interacting with them.

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