surferlove007

I didn't spend $200 plus on my purses, I only spent about $75.00 on one that I paid for from my lifeguarding job. I made $75.00 in about 7 hours. Which was about a day plus some extra. I had that kind of money when I was working that great job that paid great. Now...not so much. I don't have the spare cash like that anymore. I also worked 50 + hours a week over the summer making about 9 to 10 an hour.

A lot of people would like the privilege of turning down a job of cleaning up cat poo, but I do have it and I did because it was the best call for me. Think what you like of me being a silver-spooned brat. I'm not, and I know that. Also it was 40 miles of driving a day just for work. No thanks, not when gas prices are on the rise.

It also sounds like my parents are in a different financial situation than yours, they have two mortgages...my sisters house and theirs...and eventually mine. Just gotta get the down payment ready for mine. I'm fortunate to have the opportunity to be choosy about my jobs, but that's just the hand I was dealt. I realize that. I appreciate it.

I don't have a credit card btw. Mom and dad would rather die than let me get one. Until I get a job, I won't get a credit card.

Cynthetiq

that alone is a GREAT privilege to have been given...

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Plan9

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

abaya

Hey, I thought Art hit the "reset" button on this thread... what happened to that?

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Plan9

Heh. Whoops.

I'd say my biggest privilege and simultaneously my biggest disadvantage was growing up left to my own devices. I wasn't told to do a damn thing with my life as a kid.

I did what I wanted up until before the last part of my teen years when I really fucked up.

Consider yourself damn lucky if you were pushed to do things you didn't enjoy.

I lost a lot of time (years) and money (opportunities) from my bad choices back when my age still started with a 1.

...

I appreciate the cushy lifestyle that America offers the middle class but I've paid my own way through just about everything since I put on a uniform back in the day.

...

Hell, everybody has it good if they don't compare themselves to others.

"You're alive, aren't ya?!"

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Strange Famous

Father went to college?
no

Father finished college?
no

Mother went to college?
no

Mother finished college?
no

Have any relative who is an attorney, physician, or professor?
no

Were the same or higher class than your high school teachers?
no

Had more than 50 books in your childhood home?
yes

Had more than 500 books in your childhood home?
no

Were read children's books by a parent?
yes

Had lessons of any kind before you turned 18?
no

Had more than two kinds of lessons before you turned 18?
no

The people in the media who dress and talk like me are portrayed positively?
I wouldnt say so

Had a credit card with your name on it before you turned 18?
no

Your parents (or a trust) paid for the majority of your college costs?
no

Your parents (or a trust) paid for all of your college costs?
no

Went to a private high school?
no

Went to summer camp?
no

Had a private tutor before you turned 18?
no

Family vacations involved staying at hotels?
no

Your clothing was all bought new before you turned 18?
mostly

Your parents bought you a car that was not a hand-me-down from them?
no

There was original art in your house when you were a child?
no

You and your family lived in a single-family house?
yes

Your parent(s) owned their own house or apartment before you left home?
well, they had a mortgage...

You had your own room as a child?
yes

You had a phone in your room before you turned 18?
no

Participated in a SAT/ACT prep course?
no, but then again Im not American so it wouldnt have been much use if I had

Had your own TV in your room in high school?
yes

Owned a mutual fund or IRA in high school or college?
The IRA? WTF? I dont have any mutual funds

Flew anywhere on a commercial airline before you turned 16?
no

Went on a cruise with your family?
no

Went on more than one cruise with your family?
no

Your parents took you to museums and art galleries as you grew up?
a couple of times, yeah

You were unaware of how much heating bills were for your family?
central heating is for pussy's

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

MSD

I wouldn't call you a silver-spooned brat, but I think that your environment has somewhat skewed your view of what's privileged. The same thing happened to me during my upbringing; I live in a rich town where it's not uncommon for a kid to get a BMW for heis 16th birthday, so not getting my license until I was 18 and having to borrow one of my parents' cars when they were home and then getting a Buick as my first car seemed really unfair to me. I'm still not thrilled with the fact that I wasn't able to go away to college and still live at home, but at least I had the opportunity for higher education.

At my first job at Radio Shack, I worked with people from the big city next to my town who had to spend two hours taking four buses to get to and from work and lived with three people in a one-bedroom apartment. Once I was out of the bubble of upper class suburbia, I realized just how much I had and was grateful for it. I suspect you grew up in a pretty nice area like I did, and have a perspective like I did a few years ago when I was your age.
This is now the best post in the thread.

But seriously, in the US it's an Individual Retirement Account.

surferlove007

[QUOTE=MSD]I wouldn't call you a silver-spooned brat, but I think that your environment has somewhat skewed your view of what's privileged. The same thing happened to me during my upbringing; I live in a rich town where it's not uncommon for a kid to get a BMW for heis 16th birthday, so not getting my license until I was 18 and having to borrow one of my parents' cars when they were home and then getting a Buick as my first car seemed really unfair to me. I'm still not thrilled with the fact that I wasn't able to go away to college and still live at home, but at least I had the opportunity for higher education.

At my first job at Radio Shack, I worked with people from the big city next to my town who had to spend two hours taking four buses to get to and from work and lived with three people in a one-bedroom apartment. Once I was out of the bubble of upper class suburbia, I realized just how much I had and was grateful for it. I suspect you grew up in a pretty nice area like I did, and have a perspective like I did a few years ago when I was your age.
/QUOTE]

I agree, my environment growing up probably did sway me on my view of the privileges I have however my parents never kept it a secret they grew up in poverty and therefore didn't want us to have to do so as well.
My mom will be on the board of VPs at Lockheed probably within the next few years. She worked her way up, she expects my sis and I to do the same.
I am very fortunate for my parents, we live in a very nice neighborhood in Fort Worth and they're sacrifices have made my life possible now.

As for getting out of suburbia, I know what you mean. Went to Washington D.C. and saw some things I hadn't even dreamed out. 5 roommates in a one bedroom apartment etc. Multiple-family apartments. Life is very different for the privileged youth.

Yes I know, although once my sister gets married...whenever that happens, the mortgage is entirely in her lap. My grandmother made the comment to my parents that, a house was the ultimate gift to give to your offspring and that she wishes she could have afforded such a commodity for my dad. Same on my moms side.

The same will happen to me. My parents treat my sister and I equally, we drive used, but paid off VW Beetles and we will both have houses before it's all said and done.

abaya

See, now this is something I would like to avoid (the bubble part) when we have kids. I don't know if we'll be living in upper-class suburbia, but given the degrees and potential joint income that ktspktsp and I have/will have in the future, I doubt we're ever going to struggle with money... and thus, neither will our children.

Some background (which I think will be more informative than the survey in this thread). I grew up in an upper-middle-class home (mostly due to circumstance: my biological father died before I was born), on some property at the end of a dirt-road, with a mixed bag of privileges... we had a nice house and several pre-owned cars, but my dad built the house by hand, and he fixed all the cars himself. We never bought anything new. My clothes came from K-Mart for a long time, because my mom was an immigrant and didn't see any social "stigma" about shopping there (neither did I, until I was in jr. high and encasing myself in my own bubble, wanting nicer clothes like the "cooler" kids). So we were by no means rich/upper-class, but we were comfortably FAR from being poor. My mom grew up upper-class in Thailand, and my step-dad grew up working-class/blue-collar in the US. He's still a manual laborer who works his ass off, no less than 10 hours a day, in his mid-50s. Neither of them graduated from college, but our home was full of books--mostly bought for me--and education was an essential value that they instilled in me. We also traveled as often as we could afford.

Anyway, it was my dad who made me aware of poverty, when I was still pretty young... and I think that had a great effect on me. I was never able to construct a decent enough bubble (which I wanted, so I could emulate those "cooler" kids) to make me forget about what he'd shown me. For example, he knew of an elderly woman living in public housing in urban Seattle... we'd go visit her several times a year, bringing gifts and generally just "remembering" her (she had no family). I remember her room stank of urine every time we walked in the door, and her "apartment" was tiny and rather filthy. My mom hated visiting her, and maybe I did, too... but I'll never forget her reality. She died in her room and no one found the body for 3 days. She had no financial capital, and perhaps more importantly, no social capital.

We also took in all kinds of people to our home, much to my mother's dismay, as my dad has always had a soft spot for people who are struggling to just get by. We even had a homeless guy staying in our place for several months, because our church refused to help him out (he struggled too much with alcoholism and wouldn't get help, though, so we had to ask him to leave). It never seemed terribly strange to me, growing up, but I think it shaped a lot of my understanding of class and privilege for the future. He encouraged me to volunteer all the time, with soup kitchens and the disabled, etc. I never liked doing it--but still, it shaped me.

So, thinking about the life ahead for ktspktsp's and my kids, I know that we two are much more privileged than my own parents were... but I want our kids to grow up with as much (if not more) exposure to different classes and levels of privilege than I did, so that they're aware of exactly how lucky they are from a young age. I'm just not sure how to do that. Does anyone have any other ideas/experiences in doing this? Other than lots of volunteering, I'm not sure what else can be done...

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

ring

I think you can give children a general sense of how life is for those that are
less fortunate, but unless you live it day to day the reality is much different.

My families upper class bubble burst quite dramatically after my father
was in a small airplane crash, when I was 12 years old...he was in a coma
for two years..which he slowly came out of..and he only functions at a very low level now in a nursing home..he doesn't even know who we are..that was 37 years ago.

My mother raised us three girls back in the 70's in the US when it was very difficult for a single woman to obtain credit on her own..
My Grandmother faught for (and Won) custody of my father...long story
that doesn't fit here...but the harsh fast way in which we all had to grow up does, having a lot of money gives a false sense of security for some..
It can and does disappear easier than you think.

One thing my sister does with her children, is once a year
have them choose about 30%of their toys to give away.

Volunteering is a good idea to help build compassion and generosity
but I don't really have any other good ideas at the moment to share,
other than one that might sound sarcastic, but I don't mean it that way..

Spend a week or two with nothing in the house to eat but cold rice
peanut butter and sardines and no television or computers, and the only heat
source is cracking the oven door open for an hour a day..

Heck..even having that much might sound good to some..sorry I don't
have more to add..at the moment..good question Abaya, what can be done?

MSD

The other effect of the bubble on me was the racial divide. In the 1990 census, we had around 56,000 people and 85 black and Hispanic families. My mom never realized how bad it was until I asked her in McDonald's one day, "Mom, is that Bill Cosby?"

At that point, she made a point of helping me get a more diverse outlook on life.

jewels

Maybe I'm a little "old school", but my kids (one of 'em is 24) have learned that they can't always have what they want. I give them what they need, never placed importance on things and I guess they're lucky enough to have an aunt (who was unable to conceive) who the does the spoiling and buys their school year wardrobes.

All their friends had Nintendo and Gameboys etc and inevitably my kids asked why we couldn't have one. I never made excuses but made sure they knew these were expensive toys. They played games on the family PC instead and never complained.

I saw whiny brats being bought things at the checkout line to "shut the kid up". What a great way to teach them to keep whining and expecting more. I did give my kids special things when I could. But it was never an expectation. Usually it was a surprise and it meant so much more.

This is just a small example of not necessarily giving them things just because you can. The trick is to teach them what's truly important.

Let them learn to earn and yes, volunteer at soup kitchens etc but don't do it on the holidays. There's less glory and recognition on an ordinary day.

I don't think they have to live in poverty to appreciate what they have. Show them through your actions and teachings. I was raised with a silver spoon and have lived in near poverty as an adult, but my values have never changed. My parents taught me the same.

__________________
We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
Mark Twain

mixedmedia

I think more than being taught that there are people in the world who are not as priveleged as you are, is being taught to care about it. I'm so thankful to my parents for raising me in that old-school, liberal way. And that is the way I have/am raising my own kids. If you teach your kids compassion, then they will see how fortunate they are and they will view the world with heart instead of indifference.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

abaya

Great responses, all. Thank you. As I was reading, I was also reminded that while I traveled a lot as a kid, I wasn't really exposed to poverty in developing countries. It wasn't until I was 18 and spent a summer teaching in rural Thailand that I learned what it meant to be poor on a whole other level.

Also, when I was part of a youth group in high school, the lot of them (not me) went on a "mission trip" to rural Mexico, and most came back in a state of shock. Most were children of very affluent, evangelical families, and had never imagined how poor people could be in other countries. I am not a fan of the religious part of the exercise, but I would imagine that taking kids to do some hands-on development work instead of another vacation at Disneyland each year would influence them phenomenally.

When I was in college, they had a program where you could sign up to spend a weekend living on the streets of Seattle, living essentially as a homeless person would (of course, the reality isn't anything close to that, but at least it's some way of learning to have compassion). You are given one dollar or so, and sent out in pairs basically (with a cell phone only to be used in emergencies). You have to find places to sleep and eat on your own. Of course, this is a pretty extreme experience, but it had a powerful effect on a lot of kids who would otherwise have never even glanced at a homeless person... and here they are talking, sleeping, eating with them for a few days.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

SecretMethod70

Author John Scalzi, partially famous on the net for bacon cat and his excellent entry on being poor, has posted his thoughts on this questionnaire. It's worth a read, but to sum it up: it doesn't work particularly well as any indicator of class, and there are far better and more important indicators that are conspicuously absent.

__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

levite

Father went to college?
Yes.

Father finished college?
Yes. And Grad school, twice.

Mother went to college?
Yes.

Mother finished college?
Yes. And Grad school, three times.

Have any relative who is an attorney, physician, or professor?
Yes. Several.

Were the same or higher class than your high school teachers?
Yes.

Had more than 50 books in your childhood home?
Yes.

Had more than 500 books in your childhood home?
Way, way, way more than 500.

Were read children's books by a parent?
Yes. All the time. And not just children's books.

Had lessons of any kind before you turned 18?
Yes.

Had more than two kinds of lessons before you turned 18?
Yes. Harp, Aikido, and Writing Workshops.

The people in the media who dress and talk like me are portrayed positively?
Depends what I'm wearing, I'm kind of a long-haired hippie. Also depends on if I'm identifying primarily as caucasian or as Jewish.

Had a credit card with your name on it before you turned 18?
No.

Your parents (or a trust) paid for the majority of your college costs?
Yes.

Your parents (or a trust) paid for all of your college costs?
Yes. My parents. In my house, "trust" was a verb, not a noun.

Went to a private high school?
No.

Went to summer camp?
No.

Had a private tutor before you turned 18?
Unless you count the lessons mentioned above, no.

Family vacations involved staying at hotels?
Yes.

Your clothing was all bought new before you turned 18?
Yes, although my mother had a sixth sense for the cheap stuff. She could feel "clearance" signs being put up in stores the way dogs can hear ultrasonic whistles.

Your parents bought you a car that was not a hand-me-down from them?
No.

There was original art in your house when you were a child?
No.

You and your family lived in a single-family house?
No. Mostly we lived in apartments or duplexes.

Your parent(s) owned their own house or apartment before you left home?
No.

You had your own room as a child?
Yes.

You had a phone in your room before you turned 18?
I had a phone, yes, but it wasn't a private line.

Participated in a SAT/ACT prep course?
Yes.

Had your own TV in your room in high school?
No.

Owned a mutual fund or IRA in high school or college?
No. I still don't.

Flew anywhere on a commercial airline before you turned 16?
Yes.

Went on a cruise with your family?
No. I set foot on a cruise ship for the first time two years ago, at 32, and only because my best friend's dad got a special rate, and it was the QE2, so I couldn't say no.

Went on more than one cruise with your family?
No.

Your parents took you to museums and art galleries as you grew up?
Yes.

You were unaware of how much heating bills were for your family?
Yes, except in the general sense of "Turn that thermostat down and put on a sweater! Heat is expensive, young man!"

---

Hmmm. So yeah, I seem to have been comparatively privileged. Basically, we had a good, solid middle-class to upper-middle-class life growing up.

I think I'm okay with that.

__________________
Dull sublunary lovers love,
Whose soul is sense, cannot admit
Absence, because it doth remove
That thing which elemented it.

(From "A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning" by John Donne)

orionnebula

I have to say that I had a lot of privileges, but for the console that was the view from my mom.
They bought me a pc because it will help with school, but for the console was when you will work you will buy one yourself.
I have to say that I waited a long time to have one, but I later realized that the money that would have been used for that, served much better elsewere back then.

kel

Father went to college?
<b>Yes.</b>

Father finished college?
<b>Yes.</b>

Mother went to college?
<b>Yes.</b>

Mother finished college?
<b>Yes.</b>

Have any relative who is an attorney, physician, or professor?
<b>Yes.</b>

Were the same or higher class than your high school teachers?
<b>Yes.</b>

Had more than 50 books in your childhood home?
<b>Yes.</b>

Had more than 500 books in your childhood home?
<b>No/I doubt it. Several hundred but not that many on hand at one time..</b>

Were read children's books by a parent?
<b>Yes.</b>

Had lessons of any kind before you turned 18?
<b>Yes.</b>

Had more than two kinds of lessons before you turned 18?
<b>Yes.</b>

The people in the media who dress and talk like me are portrayed positively?
<b>Yes</b>

Had a credit card with your name on it before you turned 18?
<b>Yes, wasn't linked to my account though</b>

Your parents (or a trust) paid for the majority of your college costs?
<b>Yes</b>

Your parents (or a trust) paid for all of your college costs?
<b>No</b>

Went to a private high school?
<b>Yes</b>

Went to summer camp?
<b>Yes</b>

Had a private tutor before you turned 18?
<b>Yes</b>

Family vacations involved staying at hotels?
<b>Yes.</b>

Your clothing was all bought new before you turned 18?
<b>Yes, for the most part. Hand me downs occured where convenient</b>

Your parents bought you a car that was not a hand-me-down from them?
<b>No</b>

There was original art in your house when you were a child?
<b>Yes</b>

You and your family lived in a single-family house?
<b>Yes.</b>

Your parent(s) owned their own house or apartment before you left home?
<b>Yes, there was still a mortgage but I consider that ownership</b>

You had your own room as a child?
<b>Yes.</b>

You had a phone in your room before you turned 18?
<b>No. Wouldn't have wanted or needed it.</b>

Participated in a SAT/ACT prep course?
<b>No. School had one by default but it was nothing special. I did purchase an electronic course which I think is as good.</b>

Had your own TV in your room in high school?
<b>Yes. (not really but had a computer which is the same in the high school where I went)</b>

Owned a mutual fund or IRA in high school or college?
<b>No.</b>

Flew anywhere on a commercial airline before you turned 16?
<b>Yes.</b>

Went on a cruise with your family?
<b>No. Could have probably but we weren't into cruises</b>

Went on more than one cruise with your family?
<b>No.</b>

Your parents took you to museums and art galleries as you grew up?
<b>Yes.</b>

You were unaware of how much heating bills were for your family?
<b>Yes. Go Dad!</b>

I am not George Bush privileged, but I had it all going for me and I needed it.

__________________
"It better be funny"