Plan9

Fuck, this thread is going to be longer than Lord of the Rings.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Ustwo

So your girlfriend made you feel guilty for being a white male? Not the first time I've seen it happen, hope it works better for you in the long run then it did for my friend. I'm still trying to figure out my white male 'privilege'. I had to have better grades to get into college, better grades to get into dental school, better grades to get into my specialty, received no extra help in money or tutoring(like I would have if I were female or better yet a non-Asian minority, or god bless me a non-asian minority female.), and yet here I am, all privileged.

I'm not going to get all whiny about it and claim its a horrible injustice, I'll leave that for the people who didn't get in but would have if they were non-white males, but outside of old people being more comfortable with me, and cops being less suspicious I don't feel overly privileged.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

jewels

I've had this discussion with my parents and my dad worked to get where he was. He was in college to become a dentist when his job, that paid his way through, became his career after being recognized by his boss. He worked hard and provided for our family very comfortably. Although I didn't have many of the things some others here have, my father could have afforded them. He and my Mom felt the work ethic and earning our own way would be the best experience. I worked for his retail chain, beginning with summers only, when I was twelve years old. I was given chores to do in the home and a weekly allowance that was smaller than that of my "poor" friends. But books? Any I wanted. They were considered a right, not a privilege as almost everything else was, in our house.

I've had that talk you referred to with my parents. My dad never felt that he overcame the poverty he grew up in. He felt that he knew he'd be successful because he was driven to do well. He wanted the best for my brother and I but did not want us to learn to expect or take things for granted.

I don't think anyone fits into any precise mold here. I could have been a PhD in English Lit by now if I'd stuck with my initial plan. I could have been working at a huge ad agency in Manhattan when I was 18, but made another choice.

I've had some privileges and not had others. But I think, ultimately, it's about the wisdom we've gained to make the right choices, corny as that may sound. I made a lot of mistakes, could have easily overcome them, but didn't see past them at the time. None of it has any remote connection to privilege.

As for my kids, they've had to take a cut in lifestyle the past five or six years (since I divorced their dad). But I've seen them become stronger, brighter and more motivated than ever. And maybe they've had experiences that more privileged kids haven't and may be more apt to appreciate what they earn.

__________________
We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
Mark Twain

uncle phil

lame-o college freshman survey, addressed to college students...

like, it fits everyman?

sorry, i have severe problems with this type of "survey..."

__________________
"We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done."
- Robert S. McNamara
-----------------------------------------
"We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches...
We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles."
- Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message"
-----------------------------------------
never wrestle with a pig.
you both get dirty;
the pig likes it.

PonyPotato

My parents are immigrants. They moved to the US in 1983, and both were naturalized before I turned 10. That made me the first member of my family to experience the US school system, the first member of my family to go to a US college, and, additionally, I will be the first member of my family who will attain a graduate degree (yes, it's a few years away, so what?). I suppose because they saw the US as an opportunity, and because I grew up learning the system from the system itself (not from my family's experiences), my upbringing has made the way I perceive things a little different. My experience is not and was not primed by my parents' stories, biases, or experiences. It is entirely my own.

Does that change how I'm perceived? I don't think so, superficially, because you can't know my family's details just from looking at me. But I think that it does change peoples' perception of me, at least a little bit, once they meet my parents. I suppose the accents make it "real."

__________________
"Without passion man is a mere latent force and possibility, like the flint which awaits the shock of the iron before it can give forth its spark."
— Henri-Frédéric Amiel

uncle phil

thanks for the affirmation...

__________________
"We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done."
- Robert S. McNamara
-----------------------------------------
"We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches...
We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles."
- Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message"
-----------------------------------------
never wrestle with a pig.
you both get dirty;
the pig likes it.

PonyPotato

I'm a college student, yes. But that doesn't mean you can't answer the questions and join the discussion?

Edited to add: I'm not sure what your point in that quote is, perhaps I'm just totally dense and missing it.

__________________
"Without passion man is a mere latent force and possibility, like the flint which awaits the shock of the iron before it can give forth its spark."
— Henri-Frédéric Amiel

hrandani

Any privileges I was granted by the virtue of my upbringing was outweighed by the other cutting of the sword. It wasn't all money-hats and vacations.

Both my parents are lawyers, both are enormously dysfunctional in terms of basic social skills. Both of my parents, and my parent's parents, are very intelligent and learned professionals; very high rates of mental illness are present in my family's genetic load. Despite having 5 ? degrees, my mother hasn't worked for the entire duration of my life. Despite being an enormously qualified attorney my father worked for the government for his entire professional life and consequently, while he had more time for his children, there was roughly equal money to be had in teaching public school.

There are many good things about having educated parents, but this survey doesn't do a good job about revealing them, and completely ignores the value of having a large, loving family that supports you. I know plenty of wealthy lone children who would trade places in an instant with sprawling immigrant families, and would be 100% better off consequently.

And no, the last time I checked white geeks (actual ones, not faux geeks) were not portrayed well in the media.

surferlove007

I'd like throw something into this mix.
I went to go start a new job today at a Cat shelter. The lady whom I was planning on working for expected me to blow off my spring break plans for work and to work weekends with little time off. I told her I wasn't sure about the summer and if I'd be available to work following the end of the semester. She got very upset with me. I also mentioned my dad wasn't too crazy about me working there due to the drive. (20 miles away one way) She immediately told me that she needed to know right at that instant what my plans were. I went outside and called my dad and basically told him to tell me I wasn't allowed to continue working there and tell her so as well. My gut told me to leave and not come back.
She got very upset furthermore and ranted about "my generation" being a bunch of spoon-fed brats who have no work ethic what-so-ever. She is also a 55 year old woman who lives on 95 acres of land south of College Station with three houses of cats. She takes care of rescued cats and due to her age and number of them (150 plus) she needs help. She finds homes for them also. She doesn't have that many! I felt like mentioning to her, it would difficult to find students who are willing to both drive there and then give up their holidays. I need those breaks to get me through the semester.

She actually made me cry when she was ranting. I made the right decision not to work for her. I do support her helping the cats and feel bad I won't be helping with them. I just didn't feel comfortable working there, she just didn't seem like someone I want to deal with.

I don't understand why she generalizes "my" generation of people with being spoon-fed, over-privileged brats. She doesn't know me or where I came from. I hope not all of the baby-boomer's have this opinion of the younger folks.

Dtamr

Father went to college?
No.

Father finished college?
No.

Mother went to college?
Yes.

Mother finished college?
No.

Have any relative who is an attorney, physician, or professor?
No.

Were the same or higher class than your high school teachers?
Yes.

Had more than 50 books in your childhood home?
Yes.

Had more than 500 books in your childhood home?
Yes.

Were read children's books by a parent?
Yes.

Had lessons of any kind before you turned 18?
Yes.

Had more than two kinds of lessons before you turned 18?
No.

The people in the media who dress and talk like me are portrayed positively?
For the most part, yeah.

Had a credit card with your name on it before you turned 18?
No.

Your parents (or a trust) paid for the majority of your college costs?
Yes, though that will change soon.

Your parents (or a trust) paid for all of your college costs?
No.

Went to a private high school?
No.

Went to summer camp?
Once.

Had a private tutor before you turned 18?
Yes - terrible at math.

Family vacations involved staying at hotels?
Yes.

Your clothing was all bought new before you turned 18?
For the most part, yeah.

Your parents bought you a car that was not a hand-me-down from them?
Kind of. They bought a car, but never used it, so I use it now. It's not officially mine.

There was original art in your house when you were a child?
Not until I bought some for my room.

You and your family lived in a single-family house?
Yes.

Your parent(s) owned their own house or apartment before you left home?
No.

You had your own room as a child?
Yes.

You had a phone in your room before you turned 18?
Yes.

Participated in a SAT/ACT prep course?
No.

Had your own TV in your room in high school?
Yes.

Owned a mutual fund or IRA in high school or college?
No.

Flew anywhere on a commercial airline before you turned 16?
Yes.

Went on a cruise with your family?
They mostly went without me.

Went on more than one cruise with your family?
No.

Your parents took you to museums and art galleries as you grew up?
Yes.

You were unaware of how much heating bills were for your family?
I was. But we live in a temperate area, never gets cold, so heating bills are not problematic.

__________________
E fuhtan ruf syho baubma femm ihtancdyht drec saccyka?

Charlatan

I can't believe you actually called your Dad to have him, "tell me I wasn't allowed to continue working there and tell her so as well". How about making that call for yourself?

I have interviewed many people of your generation for jobs and I have found, even here in Asia, a great sense of entitlement. I know this is a generalization but I can safely say that a high percentage of young people today (that I have encountered in various ways) don't have the slightest clue about hard work and sacrifice. I can also say that I also came across this attitude in great frequency with people my age when they were your age (perhaps it's a function of what it means to be in your late teens and early 20s these days).

A job is a job. You don't get to decide if you get days off for holidays. You only get to decide if you want to work somewhere or not.

Perhaps her berating you was a bit harsh. I am sure it wasn't easy to have someone tell you what they think of you to your face. I know I find that kind of situation very intimidating. I hope you take something away from it besides, she was an old cranky woman with too many cats.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Cynthetiq

I guess that is a good explanation of your privileges.

I didn't get a choice if I worked holidays or not. I didn't get paid if I didn't punch in. This meant no sick days, and when a holiday came up like President's Weekend or Memorial Day, was I happy to get it? Nope, because it meant I didn't get paid for 8 hours. No vacation days, no Christmas Day off pay.

In fact when I asked for a raise, the boss suggested I work the weekend shift available and pick up any of the overtime that was being offered. When I took the job I explained that I didn't work Saturdays or past 5PM, that standoff lasted for 3 months.

Yep, at $4.35 even when I worked 80 hours in a single week, I only grossed $348, much less than when I did computer consulting for one night's work. The bus ride was almost 1 hour each way during rush hour. After rush hour, it was 1.5 to 2 hours depending if I got an express bus or a local.

When I did get some free time, I didn't even have the opportunity to make any purchases of things I needed like clothes. Because I lived in a county in NJ that had Blue Laws, most everything was closed on Sundays, my only day off. In order to go shopping I'd have to take a bus to the next county over which took about 2 hours each way because it was Sunday schedule.

When I was in college, while my parents offered to pay for everything. I didn't want it nor did I accept it. I paid most of my own way through college, working a 40 work week, and taking 18 units in the evenings.

I never went to Spring Break until MTV sent me to Panama City Beach in 1997 to work there for 3 weeks. I wasn't there to party and hang out, I was there to get a job done and my part in getting shows produced.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

PonyPotato

I'm lucky enough to be in college on scholarship. My merit scholarships pay for everything; tuition, books, food. My job is an "additional spending money and a way to spend extra time" job and it is extremely flexible. I work from home on my own computer when I want to.. in my case, this involves working primarily over weekends and holidays because that way I get a good chunk of work done without interfering with classes.

I have worked other jobs here in school, with schedules and workloads I didn't like. I was once working 30 hours a week at a bar, then driving 45 minutes one-way to clean stalls at a barn (10 stalls, 3 times a week, so it took me a while) so I could keep my horse there for free. (This is in addition to 20 credit hours of work at school.) In the month and a half I kept him there, I only had the extra time to ride my horse ONCE. I ended up getting pneumonia and my parents pushed me to let both commitments go. I know that my scholarships allow me to not work, but I enjoy the experiences and I actually manage my time a lot better when I'm under pressure.

I'm lucky I have my parents and my scholarships to support me if I absolutely cannot work when in school, and thus I get to make choices about when and where I do work. When there's a deadline, though, I have to stick to it, whether it means working through Christmas day or not going out on the weekend or not.

__________________
"Without passion man is a mere latent force and possibility, like the flint which awaits the shock of the iron before it can give forth its spark."
— Henri-Frédéric Amiel

Leto

When I read this last part I had to give myself a shake, because as a baby-boomer, I always received the "my generation" speech from countless adults. Especially when I was going through my late teens to late 20's trying to establish myself in something... ANYTHING that would be a paying job.

I also think that the Cat Lady was off base with her rant, and definitely unprofessional. I would have been a lot more professional in my approach, and have actually turned down or left jobs when I was in my young 20's because I didn't like the conditions. It's all a negotiation, and should not be personalized in the way that the Cat Lady took it out on you, nor in the way that you called your dad to "get permission". I kind of have to agree with Charlatan in this respect. You should be calling the shots, and stick up for yourself.

Incidentally, if this means that you need to manage your own sacrifices, then don't let your peers coerce you into activities that would automatically rule out a job prospect (such as weekend work or spring break activities). You need to prioritize for yourself and determine what is important in a holistic sense.

In the workplace these days though, I am amazed at the sense of entitlement that recent graduates have. There doesn't seem to be a desire to come up through the ranks and learn the business. I have a feeling that there is a perceived need to catch up to the economic or consumptive standing of the parent's generation with as little effort as possible...


~~~~~
edit:
I just needed to add something with respect to my oldest son. He is now 18 and has submitted his university applications. Last year, he completed grade 12, but due to a let up in his study habits, managed to get a 73 avg which, needless to say, severely hampered his choices. Now, since Grade 13 was removed, and the curriculum adjusted, many students go back to grade 12 to perform what is called the "Victory Lap" which is an attempt to improve marks. My son did just that, and is currently sitting at an 88.7 avg.

He has noticed through the university fairs, that this can translate to real $$$. Since he is above 85 %, he automatically qualifies for $2500/ annum towards tuition, which is roughtly half the cost.

The problem is, getting him to understand that he is "that close" to achieving this benchmark if he continues to expend the similar effort for the remaining 2 terms of his Victory Lap. Consequently, we, as parents, have been riding his ass hard about his target and he is complaining at his lack of freedom.

I need for him to understand that the money is important, and that his efforts will translate directly into a better quality of life during university.

Dammitall

I think my sister would agree with you here; lately she goes on and on in our conversations about how our parents showered us with gifts and opportunities, yet never spent the kind of quality time they may have had they not busied themselves with such intensity in their own professional lives.

__________________
If one million people replaced a two mile car trip once a week with a bike ride, carbon dioxide emissions would be reduced by 50,000 tons per year. If one out of ten car commuters switched to a bike, carbon dioxide emissions would be reduced by 25.4 million tons per year. [2milechallenge.com]

surferlove007

I made the call myself, however my dad was the easiest way to get me out of that situation ASAP. I was out in the middle of nowhere off a dirt/gravel road, and wanted to leave so that was the choice I made. I was the one who made the decision, it wasn't right for me. No one wants to work for someone who treats her cats better than her employees who clean up their shit.

A little about my background...I have been working since I turned 15. Got my lifeguard certifications and have guarded for 4 years, coming up on my 5th year. I would work 100 plus hours every two weeks in the sun for up to 12 hours a day sometimes. I know how to work hard and what ethic is. Anyways..
When it comes to being in school full-time, I'm not going to allow a job to rule when I can and can't go to Spring Break. I need that break off of school in order to relax and just breath. I don't think that's a ridiculous request in the least. I have the mornings to work. Weekends are when I also relax from the week. School part time jobs are very different from full-time, they work with your schedule versus telling you what you HAVE to do. School's stressful and takes a lot of time, I think most of you can recall that.

My parents have the means of supporting me through school however do not hand out money much at all. They both gave 5 yrs to AF to get their GI Bill because their parents wouldn't or couldn't afford to send them to school. They didn't want my sis or I to have to do that.

Holidays are important to students. They allow time to breath. I worked from April of last summer till December at the TTU Aquatic Center as guard/ swim instructor and they worked with me. They did a fair way of allotting who got time off and who didn't for certain holidays. I think I was completely justified in quiting this job because of it's inflexibility. I plan to find that in my next job as well.

So yes, it was the lame way out but behind the decision it was all me. Dad was just the excuse to GTHO. It worked. It also reaffirmed her decision that young people suck, but that's already pretty firmly there.

Bill O'Rights

I cannot, for the life of me, imagine why...


oh...

Well...that might be it. Think?

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

snowy

I'm going to give this list to one of my professors. I'm taking a multicultural issues in education class, and it's really relevant to the topic we'll be addressing next week--socio-economic status.

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

abaya

GG, I'm not saying anything about your ability to work hard, or what your work ethic is. I don't know you well enough to even pretend to comment on that.

However, since this is a thread about privilege, I will say that this paragraph I quoted reveals a substantial level of privilege in your life. First and foremost, it is a HUGE privilege to be a college student, compared to most people in the world (and even in the US, though of course it's becoming normalized). The fact that you don't HAVE to allow a job to take priority over your holidays is also a huge indication of privilege (I am also speaking from a position of privilege, so I am not trying to judge you, but just indicate something as I recognize it in my own life.)

And lastly, this comes from someone who has been in classrooms for the last 23 years, myself... yes, school is stressful and takes a lot of time, but it's still *just school*. I would say that many of us here (who went to college) look back rather fondly on our college years, remembering how "tough and hard" it all felt to us back then... never realizing just how much more demanding a real job would be. It's stressful and time-consuming to you at the moment, but I can guarantee you that a LOT of people would give up everything they have, to enjoy the level of privilege that you have. That's not meant to induce guilt, but again, I speak from the same position... and it took me a long time to realize that I don't really have any right to complain about my situation.

Someone once told a friend of mine, in college (after he vented about how stressed his classes and homework were making him): "What's your problem? All you have to worry about is school." This friend repeated the story to a group of us, and it stuck with me. It is an incredible privilege to *only* have to worry about school, and maybe a relationship. Compared to what most of the world goes through on a daily basis, in terms of sheer survival, people like us are living in the lap of luxury.

That's all. I hope you don't take this the wrong way. But privilege is privilege, there are no two ways around it.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

surferlove007

I appreciate that Abaya, I realize it's just school. My parents view it a different way. I also realize it's a huge privilege to be in school. I wasn't complaining about being underprivileged because my folks aren't willing to deal out tons of cash, just stating a situation that I thought was relevant to the topic.

B.O.R...I've had plans for spring break for quite some time now. I don't see why everyone expects college students to just drop their plans for HUGE holidays like those. I was not even working yet when she told me what she wanted and that I would have to deal with it. I chose not to have to deal.

Ustwo

I remember move in day at college freshman year at college. My dad came down and said something I won't forget. At the time it made no sense to me, but I'm going to feel the same way when my son goes.

He said 'You don't know how jealous of you I am right now.'

I remember it because it sort of baffled me at the time. Why would my successful father be jealous of an 18 year old with an uncertain future and all that 'work' to do.

Right now I owe the bank well over half a million on a business loan, if I fail this exam, I won't be able to just drop the class and take it next semester. Needless to say it would be awesome to go back to that level of 'stress' and 'work'.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

ktspktsp

Father went to college?
Yes.

Father finished college?
Yes.

Mother went to college?
Yes.

Mother finished college?
Yes.

Have any relative who is an attorney, physician, or professor?
Yes. No attorneys but several physicians, and professors.

Were the same or higher class than your high school teachers?
Yes.

Had more than 50 books in your childhood home?
Yes.

Had more than 500 books in your childhood home?
Yes.

Were read children's books by a parent?
Yes.

Had lessons of any kind before you turned 18?
Yes.

Had more than two kinds of lessons before you turned 18?
Yes.

The people in the media who dress and talk like me are portrayed positively?
No (Arab..).

Had a credit card with your name on it before you turned 18?
No.

Your parents (or a trust) paid for the majority of your college costs?
Yes.

Your parents (or a trust) paid for all of your college costs?
Yes. That is probably the biggest privilege.

Went to a private high school?
Yes.

Went to summer camp?
Yes, a couple of times.

Had a private tutor before you turned 18?
Yes.

Family vacations involved staying at hotels?
Yes.

Your clothing was all bought new before you turned 18?
Yes.

Your parents bought you a car that was not a hand-me-down from them?
Yes.

There was original art in your house when you were a child?
Yes.

You and your family lived in a single-family house?
No, in an apartment. A large one though, and it was in the middle of a city (Beirut) where single-family homes are quite rare.

Your parent(s) owned their own house or apartment before you left home?
Yes.

You had your own room as a child?
Yes.

You had a phone in your room before you turned 18?
Yes.

Participated in a SAT/ACT prep course?
Yes.

Had your own TV in your room in high school?
No. A good thing .

Owned a mutual fund or IRA in high school or college?
No.

Flew anywhere on a commercial airline before you turned 16?
Yes.

Went on a cruise with your family?
No. But we traveled many times.

Went on more than one cruise with your family?
No.

Your parents took you to museums and art galleries as you grew up?
Yes.

You were unaware of how much heating bills were for your family?
Unaware of the amount, aware that it was large.



Conclusion? Definitely privileged. It seemed "Normal" when I grew up, since my school friends were mostly of the same socio-economic circle, but I'm quite a bit more aware now of how much of an impact it had on my life, and myself.
For instance, it has enabled to me get in the right course of study to have a good job, and be able to save money as I work. Even though I have not needed money from my parents since I started working (which was after I was done with my MS), I was fully dependent until that time. And even now, I don't have to support them.

Interesting stuff.

abaya

Thanks for not taking my post the wrong way, GG. Just a quick reply/explanation for this: it's because most people (especially in the US) have no conception of having so much time off to do whatever they want.

How many weekdays "off" per year do you get, as a college student? The average US worker (even highly-skilled/educated ones) gets approximately 10 weekdays off per year. No Christmas break, no spring break, no summer break... just 10 days, with some public (1-day) holidays thrown in.

What I'm saying is, spring break isn't a "huge holiday" in most of the world... so perhaps this woman, in her scale of things, did not think she was making a massive request of you to work through your break. Hence her reaction that you are privileged and entitled, at least enough to be able to refuse the job she was offering you. The way she expressed that was not professional, I agree with you about that. But then again, try to understand the bigger picture (socio-economically) of where her remarks are coming from, that's all.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Jinn

As a member of "your" generation, I cannot believe that you "don't understand the generalization." I think it's perfectly apt, and I'm visibly shocked when I meet someone in our generation who is NOT a spoon-fed over-privileged brat with an entitlement complex - especially in my college cohorts. Think honestly about peers of your age (not just your friends, all same-age peers), and decide honestly if you feel the generalization is unfair.

I get two weeks off a year, and that's exceptional for the average US employee. Being upset that a full-time employee doesn't recognize your atypical vacation schedule as essential seems to hint that you do indeed have privilege that you're failing to recognize.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

Bill O'Rights

A vastly different set of values and priorities.

Then you have established your priorities, and reacted accordingly. That's the wonderful thing. But, you cannot expect others to respect those priorities. Especially from those of us that weren't afforded the luxury of being able to choose between working, or going to Ft. Lauderdale.

It does speak volumes to priviledge.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

surferlove007

I realized what you meant, should of explained it a tad better. Most of my friends at Texas Tech were either on Scholarship or on loans, and their parents didn't have much to do with paying for their school. Like me they had to work the previous summer to save up for spending money. My parents pay for my school but expected me to work for my spending money.
I see the other people in the different peer groups you mentioned with the really nice things in life like Chanel bags, Gucci purses and all that glitzy stuff. Parents buy them Mercedes etc. I do see those other people who are my peers, I guess I just don't' associate myself with them because those are luxuries I don't have and never had. I have Fendi purses I bought on eBay but I paid for them straight outta my pocket. I suppose the status symbols for the different peer groups are the differentiating part. Not saying I'm ungrateful, on no no. But I see what you mean.

Abaya, thats a good perspective on the vacation schedule. One thing I would like to mention though about this particular situation. When you're looking to hire college part-time students, spring break and most of the other breaks come into play. So it should be expected they'll want the time off. Not all, but those who typically have plans. I just think it would be common sense is all.

Lasereth

Father went to college?
<b>No.</b>

Father finished college?
<b>No.</b>

Mother went to college?
<b>No.</b>

Mother finished college?
<b>No.</b>

Have any relative who is an attorney, physician, or professor?
<b>No.</b>

Were the same or higher class than your high school teachers?
<b>Yes.</b>

Had more than 50 books in your childhood home?
<b>No.</b>

Had more than 500 books in your childhood home?
<b>No.</b>

Were read children's books by a parent?
<b>No.</b>

Had lessons of any kind before you turned 18?
<b>No.</b>

Had more than two kinds of lessons before you turned 18?
<b>No.</b>

The people in the media who dress and talk like me are portrayed positively?
<b>Yes.</b>

Had a credit card with your name on it before you turned 18?
<b>No.</b>

Your parents (or a trust) paid for the majority of your college costs?
<b>No.</b>

Your parents (or a trust) paid for all of your college costs?
<b>No.</b>

Went to a private high school?
<b>No.</b>

Went to summer camp?
<b>No.</b>

Had a private tutor before you turned 18?
<b>No.</b>

Family vacations involved staying at hotels?
<b>Yes.</b>

Your clothing was all bought new before you turned 18?
<b>Yes.</b>

Your parents bought you a car that was not a hand-me-down from them?
<b>No.</b>

There was original art in your house when you were a child?
<b>No.</b>

You and your family lived in a single-family house?
<b>Yes.</b>

Your parent(s) owned their own house or apartment before you left home?
<b>Yes.</b>

You had your own room as a child?
<b>No.</b>

You had a phone in your room before you turned 18?
<b>Yes.</b>

Participated in a SAT/ACT prep course?
<b>No.</b>

Had your own TV in your room in high school?
<b>Yes.</b>

Owned a mutual fund or IRA in high school or college?
<b>No.</b>

Flew anywhere on a commercial airline before you turned 16?
<b>No.</b>

Went on a cruise with your family?
<b>No.</b>

Went on more than one cruise with your family?
<b>No.</b>

Your parents took you to museums and art galleries as you grew up?
<b>No.</b>

You were unaware of how much heating bills were for your family?
<b>No.</b>

What is this survey supposed to mean? I don't get it. I have a Bachelor's degree from a state university and I make more than the average American now at 24. Can someone explain how this relates?

Bill O'Rights

See...that's what I was talking about. Values and priorities. To me...if I'm looking to hire a college student, I expect them to be more available for work during those break times.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

Plan9

Hmmm! Yes, yes... and we don't get those holidays back! GOTTA LIVE IT UP NOW WHILE WE'RE STILL YOUNG AND SEXY.

Funny, I spent some spring breaks (and Christmas and Thanksgiving and New Years and Halloween and summers and winters and whole years) carrying a rifle in-the-fucking-desert. (TM) Us military types? We're a little bitter about that at times.

Somebody please pity me. I'm easier to pity than a spoon-fed, over-privileged brat, right?

...

In the words of that guy I can't remember: Kids need to "harden the fuck up."

Suffer: It makes you a better human being.

...

I was building a "home" and had it taken away. It gives you perspective.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Ustwo

Ding, ding, we have a winner!

Now I understand college kids who want their break time off to go home and that sort of thing, but then again thats why I wouldn't hire a college kid to do any essential job at my office. Most don't NEED the job and as such will be very unreliable.

You know interestingly when I was dating Mrs. Ustwo she was a college student and working for the University. She had to work over a couple of breaks and thats despite being employed by the University itself.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

ARTelevision

Hi friends,

It's always best to steer away from over-personalizing threads like this.

I'd say having a keyboard available to type into this box at all indicates a fairly privileged situation.

I see value in this thread moving more toward the direction of perhaps reminding us how privileged so many of us are rather than parsing who is more or less privileged. A lot of that seems like some sort of holier-than-though hair splitting.

In general, we are a privileged lot, more or less - wouldn't you say?

__________________
create evolution

Cynthetiq

Yes, just having a access to a computer and internet is a privilege many in the world do not have. I am reminded of it each and every time I travel about the world.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Plan9

Thanks for refocusing, ART.

Oh, I concur.

I live in a house that isn't made of dirt and enjoy running water and a toothbrush.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Sugarmouse

Father went to college?
no

Father finished college?
no
Mother went to college?
Yes.

Mother finished college?
Yes.

Have any relative who is an attorney, physician, or professor?
Yes.

Were the same or higher class than your high school teachers?
Yes.

Had more than 50 books in your childhood home?
Yes.

Had more than 500 books in your childhood home?
yes my father is an author/avid reader
Were read children's books by a parent?
Yes.

Had lessons of any kind before you turned 18?
Yes.

Had more than two kinds of lessons before you turned 18?
Yes.

The people in the media who dress and talk like me are portrayed positively?
Kind of more as I age
Had a credit card with your name on it before you turned 18?
No.

Your parents (or a trust) paid for the majority of your college costs?
Yes.

Your parents (or a trust) paid for all of your college costs?
Yes.

Went to a private high school?
no
Went to summer camp?
no but I hated other kids and didnt want to.

Had a private tutor before you turned 18?
no
Family vacations involved staying at hotels?
Yes.

Your clothing was all bought new before you turned 18?
No, alot was second hand!
Your parents bought you a car that was not a hand-me-down from them?
yes

There was original art in your house when you were a child?
Yes
You and your family lived in a single-family house?
Yes.

Your parent(s) owned their own house or apartment before you left home?
yes
You had your own room as a child?
Yes.

You had a phone in your room before you turned 18?
tes

Participated in a SAT/ACT prep course?
no
Had your own TV in your room in high school?
A little black and white one mind!.

Owned a mutual fund or IRA in high school or college?
No.

Flew anywhere on a commercial airline before you turned 16?
Yes.

Went on a cruise with your family?
no[e
Went on more than one cruise with your family?
No.

Your parents took you to museums and art galleries as you grew up?
Yes.

You were unaware of how much heating bills were for your family?
yes
I am privaledged, i feel it alot more than others with the same or even more privaledges, but that is just my outlook and always has been..I dont want much for anything__________________

__________________
Sugarmouse=Festered

Leto

no way man... you've built character. Pity is useless against such a defence.

MLTHED

Father went to college?
Yes.

Father finished college?
Yes.

Mother went to college?
Yes.

Mother finished college?
Yes.

Have any relative who is an attorney, physician, or professor?
Yes.

Were the same or higher class than your high school teachers?
Yes.

Had more than 50 books in your childhood home?
Yes.

Had more than 500 books in your childhood home?
Yes

Were read children's books by a parent?
Yes.

Had lessons of any kind before you turned 18?
Yes.

Had more than two kinds of lessons before you turned 18?
Yes.

The people in the media who dress and talk like me are portrayed positively?
For the most part.

Had a credit card with your name on it before you turned 18?
No.

Your parents (or a trust) paid for the majority of your college costs?
Parents.

Your parents (or a trust) paid for all of your college costs?
Parents.

Went to a private high school?
No, but it had all the choices and educational advantages of a private high school

Went to summer camp?
Yes.

Had a private tutor before you turned 18?
Music lessons.

Family vacations involved staying at hotels?
Yes.

Your clothing was all bought new before you turned 18?
Yes.

Your parents bought you a car that was not a hand-me-down from them?
Yes, though part of it was paid with my Bar Mitzvah money...not much, though.

There was original art in your house when you were a child?
Yes, some.

You and your family lived in a single-family house?
Yes.

Your parent(s) owned their own house or apartment before you left home?
Yes.

You had your own room as a child?
Yes.

You had a phone in your room before you turned 18?
No.

Participated in a SAT/ACT prep course?
No.

Had your own TV in your room in high school?
Yes.

Owned a mutual fund or IRA in high school or college?
No.

Flew anywhere on a commercial airline before you turned 16?
Yes.

Went on a cruise with your family?
Yes, on our sailboat. My younger brother went on a few cruises on a ship.

Went on more than one cruise with your family?
Yes,on our sailboat. Each summer.

Your parents took you to museums and art galleries as you grew up?
Yes.

You were unaware of how much heating bills were for your family?
Unaware of any bills.

m0rpheus

Father went to college?
Yes.

Father finished college?
Yes.

Mother went to college?
Yes.

Mother finished college?
Yes.

Have any relative who is an attorney, physician, or professor?
No

Were the same or higher class than your high school teachers?
Yes

Had more than 50 books in your childhood home?
Yes

Had more than 500 books in your childhood home?
No idea. Possibly.

Were read children's books by a parent?
Often

Had lessons of any kind before you turned 18?
Just skating lessons.

Had more than two kinds of lessons before you turned 18?
No

The people in the media who dress and talk like me are portrayed positively?
Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Had a credit card with your name on it before you turned 18?
Not a chance

Your parents (or a trust) paid for the majority of your college costs?
50/50 split

Your parents (or a trust) paid for all of your college costs?
No

Went to a private high school?
No

Went to summer camp?
No

Had a private tutor before you turned 18?
No

Family vacations involved staying at hotels?
Yes

Your clothing was all bought new before you turned 18?
Yes

Your parents bought you a car that was not a hand-me-down from them?
No

There was original art in your house when you were a child?
Yes

You and your family lived in a single-family house?
Yes

Your parent(s) owned their own house or apartment before you left home?
Yes

You had your own room as a child?
Yes

You had a phone in your room before you turned 18?
Yes because I won a phone.

Participated in a SAT/ACT prep course?
N/A don't have SAT's here and I don't know what ACT is.

Had your own TV in your room in high school?
No

Owned a mutual fund or IRA in high school or college?
Yes

Flew anywhere on a commercial airline before you turned 16?
Yes

Went on a cruise with your family?
No

Went on more than one cruise with your family?
No

Your parents took you to museums and art galleries as you grew up?
No

You were unaware of how much heating bills were for your family?
I had no idea.

__________________
"it never got weird enough for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

mandy

Father went to college?
Yes.

Father finished college?
Yes.

Mother went to college?
Yes.

Mother finished college?
Yes.

Have any relative who is an attorney, physician, or professor?
Yes.

Were the same or higher class than your high school teachers?
Yes.

Had more than 50 books in your childhood home?
Yes.

Had more than 500 books in your childhood home?
Possibly, I've never counted.

Were read children's books by a parent?
no, i used to read to them to improve my reading skills. and up until i could read i was rather told stories than read stories.

Had lessons of any kind before you turned 18?
Yes.

Had more than two kinds of lessons before you turned 18?
Yes.

The people in the media who dress and talk like me are portrayed positively?
yes...i'd like to think so

Had a credit card with your name on it before you turned 18?
Are you kidding? I think my parents were wise in not letting me have one.

Your parents (or a trust) paid for the majority of your college costs?
Yes.

Your parents (or a trust) paid for all of your college costs?
No. I paid everytime i could so that they wouldnt have to.

Went to a private high school?
Nah...

Went to summer camp?
I wish!!!

Had a private tutor before you turned 18?
if you count maths lessons on a thursday afternoon?

Family vacations involved staying at hotels?
For a long time when it was affordable

Your clothing was all bought new before you turned 18?
yeah, but also got a lot of hand me downs

Your parents bought you a car that was not a hand-me-down from them?
Now you are really kidding? hahahahaha...oh please, i'm still walking or catching a taxi.

There was original art in your house when you were a child?
nope, not even today...however there is this one oil painting of a guy that was done with his feet cos he had no arms.

You and your family lived in a single-family house?
Yes.

Your parent(s) owned their own house or apartment before you left home?
yep

You had your own room as a child?
yep

You had a phone in your room before you turned 18?
nope...although i'd begged for one

Participated in a SAT/ACT prep course?
Nope

Had your own TV in your room in high school?
Nope. Although, my gran bought me a mini black and white TV for my birthday one year...it was given to the nanny cos she didnt have one.

Owned a mutual fund or IRA in high school or college?
nope

Flew anywhere on a commercial airline before you turned 16?
Yes.

Went on a cruise with your family?
I wish

Went on more than one cruise with your family?
I wish again

Your parents took you to museums and art galleries as you grew up?
well, the school did as an excursion every year we'd go to a different place.

You were unaware of how much heating bills were for your family?
People actually pay for their place to be heated? What ever happened to blankies? All my parents pay for are electricity(as in lights and stoves, no heating systems) and water.

I grew up very comfortably. I am the oldest grandchild on my dad's side of the family...ofcourse i was spoilt but not so much that made me a brat...i was always put on my place which in turn always made me know my place when i even thought about being brattish.

i may not have been born with a silver spoon in my mouth but i feel privilaged cos my mum and dad did their best and still are doing there best for me. they gave me an education, a roof, a bed and my tum tum was always full.

that is a privilage in itself.

__________________
The Imagination equips us to see a reality we have yet to create

Bill O'Rights

Well...

He is a character.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

MSD

I took a quick look at Fendi purses on ebay. The cheapest handbags I saw started at $120-$150. I'm in college, too, and the last time I had that much extra money to drop on luxuries was over a year ago; when I dropped almost $200 on a new camera this year I realized a week later that I hadn't properly balance my account and needed to borrow money from my mom to cover the difference.

My typical pay period involves getting a paycheck every other Thursday and either paying off credit cards that are up to the limit from gas, books, and car repairs; or forking over most of the check to my mother so she doesn't default on the mortgage. If I'm lucky, I'll have enough to get gas to make the 49-mile round trip to school or work each day, 5 days a week plus the occasional Saturday.
I'd love to go somewhere nice for spring break. This year, I'll once again look forward to the opportunity to squeeze in 5 full days of work uninterrupted by classes to get a big paycheck that might leave me with enough extra money to go out with friends. Last year I worked the full 40 hours during spring break, the year before when I was in a different job, I worked over 50 from Monday to Friday and took one day off from Friday before to the Monday after, I think I ended up with just over 100 hours in those 11 days. I'd love the privilege of being able to turn down a job because I don't like the hours, but I wouldn't be able to go more than three weeks without a paycheck before the bank foreclosed on our house, the same house my parents bought in the late '70s and still haven't been able to pay off.