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#1 (permalink) |
Psycho
Location: OMFG BRB
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mental segregation?
What an odd world to live in. Take these examples:
BET (Black Entertainment Television) The Chinese District Woman's Day Black History Month Hispanic Heritage Month While I have nothing against the goal of something like "Black History Month," doesn't the mere existence of such an event actually serve to segregate? Not singularly so, but the more references a child sees in relation to "hispanics," "chinese," and "jews," instead of "americans," a mental separation is further defined practically before the child is aware of the world and able to make their own judgments. Look at the reversal of this type of label: WET (White Entertainment Television) The Caucasian District Man's Day White History Month Yes, those felt as funny to type as I'm sure they felt to read! Now some of these events and labels are necessary. Just because I'm against a type of labeling does not mean I'm advocating mindless extents of being politically correct, or for the elimination of history and awareness. Fact is we've had a lot of amazingly bigoted people around since the beginning of time, and without education of our past I do believe we're bound to make the same mistakes again, given time. Which brings me to what I'm really against. No, I don't want to get rid of Hispanic Heritage Month or Black History Month. I'm sick to death of minorities of any type embracing or even capitalizing on any part of themselves with no other goal in mind. Such as homosexual comics where the majority of their act is based on them being homosexual. Or hispanic comics (Carlos Mencia anyone?) who cannot beg/borrow or steal content which does not constantly bring up the idea that he's hispanic (oddly enough, he's not actually hispanic, he just likes to make racial "funnies"). The mere presence of BET widens the difference betweens races, and unlike Black History Month has no benefit. "The Chinese District"??? What are we doing here? What's the goal of that? I can no more imagine going into say, Italy, and making an "American District" than I can making or keeping a Chinese district here. It's not like I'm some unreasonable and heartless prick. If I were in a foreign country after a couple weeks perhaps I would like some traditionally prepared American food - nothing wrong with that. Having a variety of foods labeled as coming from different parts of the world is just fine. A person who has setup shop providing a service people pay for (such as cooking their countries' traditional foods or offering other unique services) only enhances this country - if they're speaking or trying to learn english, paying taxes, and generally trying to fit in without losing their identities, they should be proud. They're Americans. If I go into a country and setup an American District, or if I'm gay or lesbian and constantly make fun of this fact, my actions only serve to further my distinction as a minority. I'm only forcing myself into a stereotype the ever-present bigots can abuse. This type of action typically has negative connotations. I'm posting this for two primary reasons. One is I've had this subject in my mind for a while and wanted to write it down. Another is I've posted a variation of this (I completely rewrote for TFP) in another community and people there seemed to think I was crazy. I don't think I'm crazy (heh), although this is an extremely rough topic to convey without coming across as extremist or out-of-touch with reality. I guess the third would be, I'm hoping for some general awareness of this issue - there's always gonna be crazy people doing crazy things, but I don't think this is crazy. The proliferation of a less-segregated community can only be positive, in my mind. |
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#2 (permalink) |
Inspired by the mind's eye.
Location: Between the darkness and the light.
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I have always wondered what would happen if in filling out forms (i.e. government, education etc...) everyone checked off either "other" or "prefer not to say" when the form asks about race.
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Aside from my great plans to become the future dictator of the moon, I have little interest in political discussions. |
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#4 (permalink) |
Addict
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two characters
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The peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error. ~John Stuart Mill, On Liberty Last edited by politicophile; 02-08-2008 at 09:46 PM.. |
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#5 (permalink) | |
All important elusive independent swing voter...
Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia
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Actually, those organizations, groupings you listed were started to INCLUDE certain disenfranchised groups. There is no WET because arguably, WET is ABC, NBC, CBS etc. There is no White History because everyday is White History and classes taught in our schools focus on "White History - RE: Western Civilization. As far as "districts", those groups you mentioned did not have a choice. They were forced to live in certain areas. In fact, you can still see old covenants on title deeds restricting Jews to live in certain areas. "Chinese districts" exist because historically, they were not allowed to live anywhere else. Over time, this became tradition. Also, when minorities started being allowed to integrate more, it was/is the whites that leave an area, leaving it a "minority district".
I would argue that many of these groups ARE proud Americans (with the exception of one group), but it is America that does not love them back. Many served in our wars as Americans but were denied veteran's benefits. Many of these groups try very hard to participate in Americana but are denied simply because they are different. It's a work in progress, I am optimistic. Hope that clears things up for you. Quote:
I personally believe that these are stepping stones and will eventually not need it. But for now, we obviously do. I believe, that the mainstream has responded in kind and diversity has slowly, of so very slowly, begun to adapt and respond accordingly. The new cast of Heroes is a good example - a much more accurate depiction of America. Scrubs has a good cast as well. The OC is a horrible example - The OC is not all white but if you watched that show, that's what one would think. CW is good at diversity programming too. Etc. etc. Last edited by jorgelito; 03-15-2007 at 04:59 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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#6 (permalink) |
Addict
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two characters
__________________
The peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error. ~John Stuart Mill, On Liberty Last edited by politicophile; 02-08-2008 at 09:46 PM.. |
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#7 (permalink) |
All important elusive independent swing voter...
Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia
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You can lead a horse to water.....
The fact of the matter is SOMEONE is watching BET and that is all that should matter. In other words, it serves a market segment. If the mainstream firms/producers are not serving a market, then another firm will rise to meet that demand. I see nothing wrong with that. It makes perfect sense to me. If you are not interested or don't like it, then you don't have to watch it. But someone does so who are we to say what they can and cannot watch? I like that we have choices, I like that we have "diversity". For me, that is what this non-hyphenated American believes makes America great. However, I do wince at the whole hyphenated American phenomenon. I disagree with the OP though. |
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#8 (permalink) |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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I wish BET didn't suck. I wish there was a channel that ran old speeches and interviews with Dr. MLK Jr. and Malcolm X. Maybe they have live poetry readings by black poets and feature unplugged music by black musicians (instead of demeaning, simplistic, despicable rap — they don't even feature really good rap). They discuss the effects of society of black Americans and visa versa in an environment of intelligence and awareness.
Right now, a great deal of the station promotes the idea of the gangster lifestyle: scamming, pimping, prostitution, gang banging, abuse against women, disrespect of women, assault, murder, etc. Black America doesn't have to be these things. Actually, most of black America isn't these things. BET is to black people what Queer Eye for the Straight Guy is for homosexuals, and it makes me sick. It's a stereotyping and has a negative effect not only on the image of black people by non-blacks, but actually can serve to effect black people's view of themselves (that information from many conversations I've had with my black friends. I don't pretend to know what it's like to be black. I'm white.) |
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#9 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: In the land of ice and snow.
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It's like the old chicken and egg question.
Which came first, racially differentiated marketing or the marketability of racial differentiation? I think the issue is much more complex than what is laid forth in the OP. I think that one can advocate equality when it comes to fundamental things, like civil rights, racial profiling, basic human decency, etc., without necessarily needing to advocate homogeneity in terms of individual cultural expression. It is bad to treat people differently because of their race. It isn't necessarily bad to draw lines between different cultures and/or celebrate differences between cultures. Blackness is a race, but it is also a culture. Though the distinction might be rather murky at times, it is still important. BET exists because there is a market for it; prior to BET there were people who want to watch the kinds of things on BET who couldn't because there was no BET. No doubt that there are some people for whom BET provides a sense of cultural identity. So what? In my mind that's no worse that people deriving a sense of cultural identity from desperate housewives. It isn't something i'd personally strive towards, but hey, whatever floats your boat. |
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#10 (permalink) | |
Psycho
Location: OMFG BRB
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Let me put it this way: I don't think there would be a public outcry if comedians phased out racial or other minority-based humor, nor if BET dropped the B from it's name and went on with life. I strongly disagree that leaving people to their bigotry-enhancing ways for "diversity" is what makes America great. |
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#11 (permalink) |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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IMO anything that distinguishes the differences of people promotes racism, direct or reverse. I have always hated this double standard but I've got better things to do than worry about the "What about White Entertainment Television?" question anymore... 10 years is enough time playing that game.
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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#12 (permalink) | ||
Psycho
Location: OMFG BRB
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#13 (permalink) |
has all her shots.
Location: Florida
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So is the problem the fact that there is a BET or the fact that you can't have a WET?
I don't have a problem with BET or Little Saigon (our local Vietnamese District) or Hispanic History Month. Funny, it doesn't make me feel estranged or "different" from the people in these groups in my community. I think it might be more prudent and practical if those who do feel estranged from American ethnic groups to work out their own shit, rather than expecting everyone else to deny their ethnicity and the expressions of it in our society.
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Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce |
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#14 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: In the land of ice and snow.
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It seems a bit ironic to me that whenever this issue pops up no one ever mentions the cultural institutions or holidays that involve nonminority cultures, like st. patricks's day or octoberfest.
It seems like a natural extension of the OP would be to suggest that the celebration of hannukah perpetuates anti-semitism because it highlights differences between the minority jewish culture and the majority christian culture in america. I guess i would like ask mr. doublenaught which sorts of cultural differentiation are acceptable and which aren't and why. |
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#15 (permalink) |
has all her shots.
Location: Florida
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I have to say I find it almost laughable that someone's answer to the problem of racism is for non-white people to stop being so goddamned different from white people. Actually, now that I'm actually writing it, it is laughable.
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__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce |
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#16 (permalink) |
peekaboo
Location: on the back, bitch
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The origination of BET was to bring quality, original television to a large portion of society that was, in their eyes, grossly under represented. However, there wasn't the big money nor big interest and, perhaps ironically enough, American entertainment was and is embracing the talents of so many black actors as 'mainstream', BET is now just an afterthought relegated to reruns of minor sitcoms and a few comedy shows.
Because of things like 'Black History Month', et al, this scenario of unnecssary 'segregations' of cultural groups via forms of entertainment, news, etc., becomes more commonplace. Is there still the 'Miss Black America' competition? No, because we've had black Miss Americas. Sometimes boosting something to the forefront singularly is necessary to incorporate it into an otherwise exclusive majority. Hope that made sense.
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Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em. |
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#17 (permalink) | |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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#18 (permalink) | |
All important elusive independent swing voter...
Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia
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Furthermore, blackness as race is going by the wayside in my opinion. It simply is an inaccurate label. People are so obsessed with race that it is almost a religion. I am more culturally black than many of my friends and just a shade or two lighter. What does this mean? Only that I have certain interests shared with other people and that my skin tone (phenotype) is in between black and white. |
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#19 (permalink) | ||
Psycho
Location: OMFG BRB
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Your post feels like you just wanted to start shit rather than have a discussion, kind of surprising you're a moderator. /shrug. Perhaps I just needed to be clearer, though it's tough with this sensitive of a subject. |
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#20 (permalink) | |||
All important elusive independent swing voter...
Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia
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Rap is good, some of it is bad. Do not lump all of rap music as a negative. THAT is stereotyping. So if you (not you you but the collective you) take issue with stereotyping on BET, why not take issue with the blatant stereotyping on "WET" (NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX etc.etc.etc.)? Quote:
Could you please elaborate on the "double standard"? I am interested in hearing what you have to say. Last edited by jorgelito; 03-15-2007 at 09:23 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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#21 (permalink) | ||
Psycho
Location: OMFG BRB
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#22 (permalink) | ||
All important elusive independent swing voter...
Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia
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Last edited by jorgelito; 03-15-2007 at 09:26 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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#23 (permalink) | ||||
Psycho
Location: OMFG BRB
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The point is NOT to be less "different from white people." It's to be more American, or the idea could be extrapolated to any minority within a society. America is a melting pot so asking people to drop their heritage is the last thing I'm advocating. Yes this is kind of a tough concept to grasp, that a person could keep their culture yet ditch the actions which only serve to further their distinction as a minority. Oh, well actually now that I write it, it's kind of laughable that you wouldn't get it considering it's right in the OP. Live and learn, I guess? Have a good cup of coffee before you respond? Please? I really would rather keep this a normal discussion but I have a rather significant flaw as a person, that I can't let bs stand. Ask a question if you have a question, but moving to flaming will only get you the same in return. Quote:
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Why can't BET drop the B and still be successful? It could still have the exact same material and fill the exact same need without pushing the idea "blacks are different." No, they're American and have a heritage or a set of ideals (depending on religion) to stand up for. There is no use in pushing the "black" part, just let them by what they're gonna be. Quote:
This is definitely not a push for homogenization (is that a word?) or being PC, whatsoever. The change is a very subtle one and wouldn't change anything overnight. It's simply life as-is, minus the phrases and terms and labels which serve only negative purposes. Last edited by doubleaught; 03-15-2007 at 09:55 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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#24 (permalink) | |||
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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Viacom cut back BET's public affairs department back in 2001. That led to Smiley being let go and the shows Teen Sumit and Lead Story being canceled. Notice how 106 and Park survived? Yeah, it plays the videos with big booties and rap featuring the common themes: 1) I'm richer than you, but my life is difficult driving my fleet of Bentleys (lifestyle) 2) I'm going to kill you, right after I possibly rob you (gangsta) 3) Your sister's a bitch, all women are bitches and hoes (disrespect of women) 4) I'm going to beat up a gay guy (homophobia) It's not art. It's Twinkies and breast implants; fake, marketed garbage. |
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#26 (permalink) | ||
All important elusive independent swing voter...
Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia
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Well, you just may get your wish. It doesn't really sound like they can hang around too much longer. And as long as you (and/or I or whomever) don't watch it and condone it, then we continuously send a message of what we want and don't want to consume for media/entertainment.
The remote control (and now TiVO and the like) are powerful tools for consumers. I totally agree with you about stereotypes of ANY TYPE are despicable and deplorable (Arab terrorists, Latino criminals, Asian nerds etc) and would even go as far as to say positive stereotypes are bad as well. I say let BET and the like fall on their own, for if they do insist on keeping that up, then they will (I'm assuming). Quote:
Oh yeah, and Will (and anyone else who's interested), please do check out Def Jam Poetry Slam, I think you'd like it. Edit: Here, we can now add Confederate Month to the list of examples of "mental segregation". I mean, they lost the war right? Someone tell them to "get over it" and assimilate as Americans already... http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070315/...federate_month Quote:
Last edited by jorgelito; 03-15-2007 at 10:50 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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#27 (permalink) |
has all her shots.
Location: Florida
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Sorry babe, but I fail to see the validity of your point. God forbid I use a little humor to make mine. My intention was not to "flame."
Of course, I read your OP and I interjected my opinion on it. I don't see a problem with Americans being ethnically distinct and having their own television networks, their own communities and even their own awards shows (if they must). I fail to see how they "advance segregation" are "of no benefit" and are "harmful to society." Let me ask you this, did we have less racism before there was a BET and a Latin Music Awards? I was an adult then. I can comment on that. The problem is not that ethnic groups need to work on being less distinct (ie, more tolerable?). It's that racists need to work on being more tolerant. That is my point as I believe was made pretty obvious in my posts regardless of their perceived tone. With all due respect, do you have anything to say to that? *edit* And let me add just one more thing. I apologize if you took offense at my comments. I don't say this as a moderator, but as a person who is aware that she can be somewhat caustic when it comes to race issues. But I only do so because of the observation that we are slipping when it comes to the "national ethic" towards racial tolerance that we adopted following the civil rights movement. Especially among young people who don't seem to understand why we have BET and a black history month. And I don't believe it is because of ethnic groups celebrating their ethnicity. It's that time goes by and people forget.
__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce Last edited by mixedmedia; 03-16-2007 at 03:06 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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#29 (permalink) |
Asshole
Administrator
Location: Chicago
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{sigh}
Please keep personal attacks out of this thread. Debate the issue, not the person. This thread is quickly turning into a mess.
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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo |
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#30 (permalink) | |
Misanthropic
Location: Ohio! yay!
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Crack, you and I are long overdue for a vicious bout of mansex. ~Halx |
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#31 (permalink) | ||
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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When going to college in the late 80s. I didn't qualify for financial aid or scholarships as my parents made too much money. I'm of Filipino decent and did not play the minority card. Yet, a black person in my high school with the same GPA (no sports for either of us) as me was getting offers everywhere for financial and acceptance to schools because he was black. Now, IMO it has come full circle where I understand in California the UC and CS systems both have cultural graduations, so if you don't want to go to the normal ceremony that has a rich tradition, you can go to the Filipino/Black/Chinese/Spanish ones. Again in California I went to DMV to pick up the book so that I can learn and take the written exam. I asked for a book and was immediately handed one in Tagalog (Filipino language). I did not ask for it in the "mother tongue" I did not distinguish to the person that I was Filipino at all. I get junk mail in Spanish based on my last name. Is my last name really a Spanish name? Yes, it is but it's not a common last name that people have historically ever thought was Spanish. Latin Grammys where created soley based on demographics and the ability to market directly to a market segment. They don't have a black artist category unless you decide that R&B is that segment, but to my point they didn't decide to create a Black Grammys to cater to that market segment. The generations before us were proud to have their heritage, but they were even more proud to be an American before their own heritage. I think that is where the difference is now. People want to show their difference and individuality instead of celebrating their common connection of being American, or at least even human.
__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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#32 (permalink) |
has all her shots.
Location: Florida
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I don't understand how a group of people honoring the accomplishments of individuals in their ethnic group translates into their not wanting to be identified as Americans or humans.
__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce |
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#33 (permalink) | |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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Quote:
Now to truly address your statement head on, if that's the case, then why seperate themselves from the Grammys themselves? Why not have a Latin music category, best Latin male vocalist, etc? Why not? Because it's about purchasing power, marketing and demographics. So by your same thought then honoring the graduates in their own cultural ceremony makes sense too right? What about the burden of costs for assembly, chairs, speakers, AV equipment for the multiple and different ceremonies? Since it is for a select few is the cost burden distributed and divided among them? Probably not, but more than likely divided among the WHOLE student body.
__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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#34 (permalink) | ||||
Junkie
Location: In the land of ice and snow.
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Dropping the B wouldn't amount to anything meaningful, since the claim that black culture is different from mainstream american culture isn't spurious. If all minorities suddenly stopped publicly mentioning the fact that their cultures are different from american popular culture it wouldn't change the fact that their cultures are different from american popular culture. Furthermore, highlighting the fact that your particular culture is different from american pop culture does in now way imply that you yourself aren't an average american. |
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#35 (permalink) | |
has all her shots.
Location: Florida
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Well, I think I understand your point in your second paragraph and I tend to think that the "exploitation" of ethnic differences by music companies, television networks, etc. for monetary gain is another subject completely. For example, your average Hispanic citizen doesn't have a lot of control over that other than their interest in watching or listening. Is there something inherently wrong with that? What is different about that than, say, the Country Music Awards show? It is targeting a demographic, as well. Of course, the word "white" isn't used in the title but, Charlie Pride notwithstanding, I think we all understand that 99.99999% of country singers are white and the awards show is targeted to white people who enjoy listening to country music. As for the final paragraph, I understand this may be a problem for some people, but if I were in college and knew that a tiny percentage of my money was going to fund ethnically targeted graduation ceremonies, I could care less. eh, shrug, whatever, I understand that not everyone feels this way, though. And lastly, what does any of this have to do with racism or pride in being an American?
__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce |
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#36 (permalink) | |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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Quote:
The division of Latin Grammys is highlighting Latin, not celebrating the commonality of music. Again, it parallels in my mind the same things of the American aspect, again pointing out the differences instead of celebrating in the commonality. It is just my perspective on this since I have always been an outsider to both communities, my own heritage and the "Americans." Edit: Sorry forgot to address the attitudes. Yes, correct they are much more exclusionary then they are inclusionary. I have been to a Filipino pride parade. Since I don't speak the language, they couldn't be bothered to include me in the conversations.
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. Last edited by Cynthetiq; 03-16-2007 at 08:03 AM.. |
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#37 (permalink) |
Asshole
Administrator
Location: Chicago
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I'm only going to interject one thing into this conversation - the Latin Grammys encompass more "American" than people are giving credit for. They include Mexican and other Latin American artists and have several catagories for Spanish-only music.
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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo |
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#38 (permalink) |
I change
Location: USA
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I see no advantage in people defining themselves as members of so-called ethnic groups. That seems to lead to an increasing urge to ghettoize oneself.
This amounts to a politicalization of our less than significant differences. When that happens - we've just created more excuses for endless conflict.
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create evolution |
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#39 (permalink) | |
peekaboo
Location: on the back, bitch
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To what Cyn says about the advertising dollar being the catalyst, I agree, but I think it's also an exclusionary/inclusionary train of thought; 'we feel under-represented and pushed aside, so we'll do our own'. (regarding Latin Grammys, etc., not those dumb VH1 'awards' shows). The CMA's and AMA's were started by Dick Clark because he saw an opportunity to make some really huge bucks off those burgeoning markets and he didn't like the pompousness and exclusionary of music styles of the Grammys. (the first year metal was recognized by the Grammys, Jethro Tull got the award..there's a WTF moment). Racial and cultural exclusions may start with the feeling of wanting to be recognized, but I think it's more wanting a piece of the action as time goes on. In other words, altruism gives way to the greenbacks. When they stop rolling in, suddenly proclamations of 'it worked! we're included now!' come about. ![]()
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Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em. |
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#40 (permalink) |
has all her shots.
Location: Florida
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Whatever do you mean, my country music awards.
![]() Awards shows have proven to draw audiences. Of course, there is not time in a 3-4 hour broadcast for all of the Grammy categories to get equal attention. It's been a long time since I watched the Grammys, but if I remember correctly, the emphasis has traditionally been on the winners in the pop, rock, r&b and, more recently, the rap categories. So given that categories such as Latin and Country music don't get as much attention combined with the fact that people tend to tune into awards shows...TA DA, you have your Latin and Country Music Awards shows. Do I watch them? No. But if they were to come up with, say, an Alternative Country Music Awards show or a music awards equivalent of the Independent Spirit Awards for film, then I might watch those. Because I have interest in those forms of music. And I don't think to do so would be a direct rejection of anything. It's just me watching something on television that relates to my interests. I don't think it's fair to deny someone that individuality or identification simply because the interest in question is grounded in their ethnicity.
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Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce |
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mental, segregation |
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