Wireless expansion ?'s - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

DEI37 · 08-12-2007, 02:12 PM

I currently have a Linksys WRT54G router in my house for two machines that are wireless in the house. I have a detached garage that is definitely getting weak reception. What I WANT to do is run a Cat6 cable out there, because I am going to put another desktop machine out there. But, if I have people over working on cars, I'd like to be able to have 'em be able to hook up to the network wireless.

Can I put another wireless router out there, and hook up the cable from the router in the house to the WAN port on the router in the garage, and have it get an IP address automatically (I am using DHCP), and then have it set up like normal from there? I need both wired and wireless if I'm gonna do what I want.

Thanks.

cyrnel · 08-12-2007, 02:28 PM

Yes, it'll work but use a different SSID on a channel at least two away from your first radio.

Alternately you could set up a distributed system where the 2nd WAP is essentially a repeater of the first. Experiment with positions, maybe even up in the attic to improve the reception from the first radio. That would save you the effort of cabling and you would have one larger wireless network at the expense of slightly reduced bandwidth and security.

For WDS you need to buy a WDSable access point (Special Linksys or other). That usually means using an alternate firmware. Most of the current store-stocked units besides Buffalo are cost-reduced versions that can barely count to 10. Buffalo has great options at good prices. For instance, the WHR-G54S can usually be had for $39, flashed with Tomato or alternate at which point they really come to life.

DEI37 · 08-12-2007, 03:15 PM

How do you set up a second WAP to be a repeater? Does it get wired in?

What is WDS? I know Newegg has a Linksys WRT54GL that is based on Linux. The one I have now is a fifth revision which is NOT a Linux powered box.

cyrnel · 08-12-2007, 03:34 PM

No wires required. WDS (wireless distribution system) is used to repeat the network one or more times. It works nicely to wirelessly extend a WLAN, but:

- Each hop halves the bandwidth. Your scenario would burn 1/2 the natural bandwidth moving the extra traffic. (not a big deal unless you're sharing files locally)
- Many implementations are stuck at weak WEP encryption (Dynamic keys are out altogether unless you go with an enterprise solution) (This wasn't really handled well in 802.11 so fixes are best effort or proprietary)

I can't remember now if the the WRT54G v5 can serve a Tomato radio with WPA encryption but the GL version can, using alternate firmware. Buffalo radios have become popular because they're faster, a bit more reliable, have more RAM, are less expensive, and have more features even with the stock firmware.

DEI37 · 08-12-2007, 05:19 PM

OK. I'll look at the Buffalo solutions, then. If nothing else, I don't have a problem running Cat6 out to the garage to another wireless router. If I only needed one or the other connectivity options, this would be easier. I'll definitely look at the unit you told me about. Thanks.

snowy · 08-12-2007, 06:47 PM

I have a Buffalo wireless router: http://www.buffalotech.com/products/...-gain-antenna/
...love love love it. I can get the signal anywhere in my house and at the coffeeshop across the street. We use it as both a wired and wireless router.

I've used the Linksys WRT54G, and found it gave a weak signal by comparison. We used it at my former workplace, and it was pretty useless.

DEI37 · 08-12-2007, 06:49 PM

Yeah, my Linksys is only 80' from the garage, and up high. There's only two walls to go through. You'd think it'd do better. It doesn't. Thanks for the info, y'all.

cyrnel · 08-13-2007, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEI37

OK. I'll look at the Buffalo solutions, then. If nothing else, I don't have a problem running Cat6 out to the garage to another wireless router. If I only needed one or the other connectivity options, this would be easier. I'll definitely look at the unit you told me about. Thanks.

If wiring isn't an issue then by all means wire it for maximum bandwidth, security, and fewer surprises. (for that hop) If you're burying or exposing it, consider putting it in conduit or at least get outdoor grade. Home Despot has it. Don't bother with the shielded (STP vs. UTP) stuff. Avoid AC power wiring, motors, etc.

DEI37 · 08-13-2007, 10:31 AM

Yeah, I'm gonna bury it in conduit. I have some stepping stones out back between the house & garage that the previous owner put down, and they need to come up. When they do, down goes the conduit and Cat6.

oiekeooiyw · 08-14-2007, 09:38 PM

If you already have the WRT54G, you might want to try an alternate firmware that allows you to turn the power up a bit. DD-WRT gives you a bunch of options that the Linksys firmware does not.
If you run ethernet to another wireless router, just plug the cable into one of the switch ports and set up the wireless side. You don't need to set up DHCP or anything on the second router because it will basically just be acting as a switch.

bendsley · 08-15-2007, 06:53 AM

I would suggest installing DD-WRT on the router and then buying two 7 - 9 dBi antennas. I have two 9dbi antennas on my Cisco 871w and can get signal almost a full block away.

DEI37 · 08-15-2007, 05:11 PM

As far as I know, there are no alternate firmware versions for the V5 WRT54G. I tried uploading one for a V4, but the V5 isn't Linux based, which throws that out the window. I am still running on the factory antenna. Hadn't even thought about that.

oiekeooiyw · 08-16-2007, 08:49 AM

There are some out there for the closed source wrt54g v5, but they take a bit more work to install.

DEI37 · 08-16-2007, 07:04 PM

I see. This, I did not know. I've had the router for a year or so now, so I don't know what is new since then.

I did find some stuff on WRTrouters.com that I am going to try. We'll see how it goes. If I can get more power out of it, and I'll get those antenna, too, then maybe I won't have to worry about much. Though, the machine in the garage won't take a wireless NIC, I don't think. An IBM PC300GL with a Pentium MMX 166 with a 2.4GB HDD, 80MB RAM, and XP Pro...

EDIT 1: Tried it...fried it.

EDIT 2: Where are you finding the Buffalo WHR-G54S at? Newegg carries them, but is out of stock. Mwave and Tiger don't carry them. I can't believe I bricked a router. That sucks.

bendsley · 08-17-2007, 07:09 AM

The reason the V5 isn't really hackable is because it runs VxWorks, with very minimal hardware. You can though get the WRT54G-5L which runs linux.

I would advise you to look at the following two sites for help with the V5 router. With version 5, you can run DD-WRT micro and the second site below seems to have all of that information.

http://www.bitsum.com/openwiking/owb...?WRT54G5%5FCFE
http://www.scorpiontek.org/portal/content/view/27/36

oiekeooiyw · 08-18-2007, 07:03 PM

Sorry to hear you bricked it. Done that myself and it sucks.
If the box you have has an open PCI slot it will take a wireless card. Damn, running XP pro on a Pentium 166 with a 2.4 gig hard drive... I prefer to run win2k on my slower (less then 600Mhz) machines.
I still prefer the WRT54GL's over dlink because I can tweak power and run SNMP along with options that DD-WRT gives you.

DEI37 · 08-19-2007, 10:42 AM

Hmm. If I can get a WRT54GL, or the Buffalo mentioned, then maybe I'll be alright. Combine it with larger anntanna, and maybe I won't have to worry about it. I'll find out when I replace this brick I made.

DEI37 · 09-14-2007, 04:18 PM

OK...to resurrect this, I am finding a Buffalo WHR-HP-G54 that is recommended over the WRT54GL. Does anybody have ANY experience with this particular router? I'm really looking at it hard, and the price is within a couple dollars either way, so money won't be the deciding factor.

Redjake · 09-16-2007, 06:54 PM

I may be missing something, but why not just get a Cantenna and aim it at your garage?

http://www.cantenna.com/

Alternatively, you could just get a wireless access point. Both of these solutions seem tons easier than everything mentioned so far. The WAP will only work if you have a pretty good line of sight.

08-12-2007, 02:12 PM	#1 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	Wireless expansion ?'s I currently have a Linksys WRT54G router in my house for two machines that are wireless in the house. I have a detached garage that is definitely getting weak reception. What I WANT to do is run a Cat6 cable out there, because I am going to put another desktop machine out there. But, if I have people over working on cars, I'd like to be able to have 'em be able to hook up to the network wireless. Can I put another wireless router out there, and hook up the cable from the router in the house to the WAN port on the router in the garage, and have it get an IP address automatically (I am using DHCP), and then have it set up like normal from there? I need both wired and wireless if I'm gonna do what I want. Thanks. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

08-12-2007, 02:28 PM	#2 (permalink)
cyrnel Adequate Location: In my angry-dome.	Yes, it'll work but use a different SSID on a channel at least two away from your first radio. Alternately you could set up a distributed system where the 2nd WAP is essentially a repeater of the first. Experiment with positions, maybe even up in the attic to improve the reception from the first radio. That would save you the effort of cabling and you would have one larger wireless network at the expense of slightly reduced bandwidth and security. For WDS you need to buy a WDSable access point (Special Linksys or other). That usually means using an alternate firmware. Most of the current store-stocked units besides Buffalo are cost-reduced versions that can barely count to 10. Buffalo has great options at good prices. For instance, the WHR-G54S can usually be had for $39, flashed with Tomato or alternate at which point they really come to life. __________________ There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

08-12-2007, 03:15 PM	#3 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	How do you set up a second WAP to be a repeater? Does it get wired in? What is WDS? I know Newegg has a Linksys WRT54GL that is based on Linux. The one I have now is a fifth revision which is NOT a Linux powered box. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

08-12-2007, 03:34 PM	#4 (permalink)
cyrnel Adequate Location: In my angry-dome.	No wires required. WDS (wireless distribution system) is used to repeat the network one or more times. It works nicely to wirelessly extend a WLAN, but: - Each hop halves the bandwidth. Your scenario would burn 1/2 the natural bandwidth moving the extra traffic. (not a big deal unless you're sharing files locally) - Many implementations are stuck at weak WEP encryption (Dynamic keys are out altogether unless you go with an enterprise solution) (This wasn't really handled well in 802.11 so fixes are best effort or proprietary) I can't remember now if the the WRT54G v5 can serve a Tomato radio with WPA encryption but the GL version can, using alternate firmware. Buffalo radios have become popular because they're faster, a bit more reliable, have more RAM, are less expensive, and have more features even with the stock firmware. __________________ There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

08-12-2007, 05:19 PM	#5 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	OK. I'll look at the Buffalo solutions, then. If nothing else, I don't have a problem running Cat6 out to the garage to another wireless router. If I only needed one or the other connectivity options, this would be easier. I'll definitely look at the unit you told me about. Thanks. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

08-12-2007, 06:47 PM	#6 (permalink)
snowy Kick Ass Kunoichi Location: Oregon	I have a Buffalo wireless router: http://www.buffalotech.com/products/...-gain-antenna/ ...love love love it. I can get the signal anywhere in my house and at the coffeeshop across the street. We use it as both a wired and wireless router. I've used the Linksys WRT54G, and found it gave a weak signal by comparison. We used it at my former workplace, and it was pretty useless. __________________ If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

08-12-2007, 06:49 PM	#7 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	Yeah, my Linksys is only 80' from the garage, and up high. There's only two walls to go through. You'd think it'd do better. It doesn't. Thanks for the info, y'all. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

08-13-2007, 10:31 AM	#9 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	Yeah, I'm gonna bury it in conduit. I have some stepping stones out back between the house & garage that the previous owner put down, and they need to come up. When they do, down goes the conduit and Cat6. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

08-14-2007, 09:38 PM	#10 (permalink)
oiekeooiyw Insane	If you already have the WRT54G, you might want to try an alternate firmware that allows you to turn the power up a bit. DD-WRT gives you a bunch of options that the Linksys firmware does not. If you run ethernet to another wireless router, just plug the cable into one of the switch ports and set up the wireless side. You don't need to set up DHCP or anything on the second router because it will basically just be acting as a switch.

08-15-2007, 06:53 AM	#11 (permalink)
bendsley Professional Loafer Location: texas	I would suggest installing DD-WRT on the router and then buying two 7 - 9 dBi antennas. I have two 9dbi antennas on my Cisco 871w and can get signal almost a full block away. __________________ "You hear the one about the fella who died, went to the pearly gates? St. Peter let him in. Sees a guy in a suit making a closing argument. Says, "Who's that?" St. Peter says, "Oh, that's God. Thinks he's Denny Crane."

08-15-2007, 05:11 PM	#12 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	As far as I know, there are no alternate firmware versions for the V5 WRT54G. I tried uploading one for a V4, but the V5 isn't Linux based, which throws that out the window. I am still running on the factory antenna. Hadn't even thought about that. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

08-16-2007, 08:49 AM	#13 (permalink)
oiekeooiyw Insane	There are some out there for the closed source wrt54g v5, but they take a bit more work to install.

08-16-2007, 07:04 PM	#14 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	I see. This, I did not know. I've had the router for a year or so now, so I don't know what is new since then. I did find some stuff on WRTrouters.com that I am going to try. We'll see how it goes. If I can get more power out of it, and I'll get those antenna, too, then maybe I won't have to worry about much. Though, the machine in the garage won't take a wireless NIC, I don't think. An IBM PC300GL with a Pentium MMX 166 with a 2.4GB HDD, 80MB RAM, and XP Pro... EDIT 1: Tried it...fried it. EDIT 2: Where are you finding the Buffalo WHR-G54S at? Newegg carries them, but is out of stock. Mwave and Tiger don't carry them. I can't believe I bricked a router. That sucks. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised. Last edited by DEI37; 08-16-2007 at 08:51 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

08-17-2007, 07:09 AM	#15 (permalink)
bendsley Professional Loafer Location: texas	The reason the V5 isn't really hackable is because it runs VxWorks, with very minimal hardware. You can though get the WRT54G-5L which runs linux. I would advise you to look at the following two sites for help with the V5 router. With version 5, you can run DD-WRT micro and the second site below seems to have all of that information. http://www.bitsum.com/openwiking/owb...?WRT54G5%5FCFE http://www.scorpiontek.org/portal/content/view/27/36 __________________ "You hear the one about the fella who died, went to the pearly gates? St. Peter let him in. Sees a guy in a suit making a closing argument. Says, "Who's that?" St. Peter says, "Oh, that's God. Thinks he's Denny Crane."

08-18-2007, 07:03 PM	#16 (permalink)
oiekeooiyw Insane	Sorry to hear you bricked it. Done that myself and it sucks. If the box you have has an open PCI slot it will take a wireless card. Damn, running XP pro on a Pentium 166 with a 2.4 gig hard drive... I prefer to run win2k on my slower (less then 600Mhz) machines. I still prefer the WRT54GL's over dlink because I can tweak power and run SNMP along with options that DD-WRT gives you.

08-19-2007, 10:42 AM	#17 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	Hmm. If I can get a WRT54GL, or the Buffalo mentioned, then maybe I'll be alright. Combine it with larger anntanna, and maybe I won't have to worry about it. I'll find out when I replace this brick I made. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

09-14-2007, 04:18 PM	#18 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	OK...to resurrect this, I am finding a Buffalo WHR-HP-G54 that is recommended over the WRT54GL. Does anybody have ANY experience with this particular router? I'm really looking at it hard, and the price is within a couple dollars either way, so money won't be the deciding factor. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

09-16-2007, 06:54 PM	#19 (permalink)
Redjake I'm a family man - I run a family business. Location: Wilson, NC	I may be missing something, but why not just get a Cantenna and aim it at your garage? http://www.cantenna.com/ Alternatively, you could just get a wireless access point. Both of these solutions seem tons easier than everything mentioned so far. The WAP will only work if you have a pretty good line of sight. __________________ Off the record, on the q.t., and very hush-hush.