Prince

As of yesterday, every time I reboot my Dell, I get an interesting warning before Windows loads that goes something like this:
A S.M.A.R.T error occurred.
Your hard drive is operating outside normal specifications.
It is advisable to backup your data immediately and contact your technical administrator or Dell Support Service.
Press Del to continue.

That's not word to word but pretty close. Anyone familiar with this "SMART error"? I had a few lockdowns lately due and had to force coldboot the machine, after which I started getting the message above.

Is this the untimely end of my hard drive?

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cyrnel

One of your HD's is approaching or has passed a threshhold that indicates failure according to the drive manufacturer. You can investigate the specifics but your first priority should be to back up the drive. Things usually get worse very quickly. I can't say if Dell's warning is early or near the end.

Many free programs such as HDTune can dump and display the SMART properties. But again, I've learned the hard way to back up anything important pronto. It's never good to look back at time wasted after the drive is toast.

Good luck!

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There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

Prince

Is there a way to know which HD this warning relates to? I have two drives currently in use. The first one has just one large partition that holds Windows XP. The second hd has two partitions, the first one containing Windows' swap file and the second for data storage. Is it safe to assume that this problem has to do with the hd that the system boots up from?

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Who is John Galt?

cyrnel

No. The BIOS self-test message can indicate any drive for which it's responsible. That could even mean drives connected to separate controllers, depending on interaction between the two.

Grab HDTune. It'll hilight problem values.

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There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

Prince

I used HDTune and here are its results:


I don't know what reallocated sector count means but it doesn't sound good..

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Who is John Galt?

cyrnel

Yep, that's a bad one. Your drive says it's low on spares. It usually gets worse quickly.

Back it up starting with really important files and then make an image copy if you have another drive.

Minimize any power on time. A really bad idea right now would be a scandisk or surface verify.

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There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

Prince

I had been running defrag on the drive at least 2 times a week recently. I wonder if that made it worse.

Meanwhile, would this be an ok replacement? Think my Dell Dimension 4400 would be cool enough for it?

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Dilbert1234567

Contact dell, the drive may be under warranty. and no, with a dell, you should stay away from the 7200.10, they get extremely hot and dell cuts corners on cooling, I’d go with a Seagate 7200.9

one quick note about scan disk, if you tell it to fix errors, it is like a bull in a china shop, if it does not know how to fix it, it gets the ax, reducing chances of a real recovery by a professional.

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cyrnel

Yep, remember the old man's "every time you use it..." rule.

Sure, defrag every now and then when if things are horrible but twice a week is mucho exercise.

Better than defragmenting is lots of free space. Say ~50%.

Those drives are good. They've varied over time but I've had very good luck overall. Heat problems mostly depend on placement. Best to keep a space between drives and case areas that limit airflow. If your dell mounts the drive flat up front in the intake flow then no problem. Wherever, keep an eye on the drive's temperature sensor until you're comfortable with operating temp. Edit: (Sorry, watching F1 racce.) Dilbert's right, they can get warm out of airflow. If you notice this you can add a small cpu fan at 7v to keep a breeze moving. Of course, measure temps with the case closed.

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There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

Prince

What about this one? The 7200.9 that NewEgg has looks good too, but if I'm getting a new one I wouldn't mind getting more space while I am at it. I just can't tell of these just by specs as to how hot they get.

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Dilbert1234567

i own 2 and they run nice, should work out great.

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cyrnel

Those are good too, but I really wouldn't worry about a 7200.10. Have you had that much trouble Dilbert? I agree it could affect overall cooling combined with a mondo video card or cramped system, but they've done well in my installs. In cheapo Dells where I was concerned I found they rarely report near 100*f. (~70*f office temps)

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There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

Dilbert1234567

I don’t have issues with it, but I have 2, 120 mm fans for intake and 1 120 mm for outtake, it is in front of one of the 120 mm intake fans, all my other drives are cold to the touch, except it, its still about 100F. I don’t know how hot it would be with out the fan, I don’t want to find out.

One exception is mine is a 750 gig, but from what I’ve read, all the 7200.10 are hotter then the 7200.9's, not just the 750's

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Prince

I am tempted to go with the WDC WD2500JB (250GB).

My only concern at this point is temperature, now that you've brought it up. I've been running HDTune in the background and it is reporting 44-47 C as temp for the failing drive, and a constant 44 C for the working one. In other words the failing drive's temp is at around 116 F. Is that within normal limits?

The case doesnt have any fans other than what came with it. I see one fan for the power unit and then a larger one for the case itself. I am not all too sure that the Dell Dimension 4400's case really is built for any additional fans to be put in. But, I've never dealt with fans so I wouldn't know.

Guys, I really really appreciate all your advice. Thanks for everything.

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cyrnel

I've noticed some correlation between heat and platter count but haven't tested the big drives. I don't have a 4-platter. My main volume has been in 200's through 320's. They've been great for office systems so long as I don't bury them or leave the case open. Always fairly careful about placement. Ran a 4hr thrash on a 320 this last week in an old Dell. Office peak was 72f, drive peak was 36c.

Might be interesting to check power draw on a 750.

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There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

Prince

I am ordering a new drive from NewEgg. Meanwhile, I am concerned about the temperatures being reported from the HDs... From what I understand, Dell's cases and boards are very proprietary. I was wondering if you know of any way of adding a cooling mechanism to even a very proprietary case. I've been reading about heatsinks and HDD coolers but I don't know what would be applicable in the case of, well, my case. I just dont want my new drive to develop mechanical problems due to excessive heat.

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cyrnel

That's a fair concern. When I say I haven't had problems it's after making sure they have airflow.

Which Dell do you have?

Newegg and zipzoomfly carry oodles of drive coolers. Fitment will depend on your Dell model and what's already in it.

If you're at all inclined it's easy to make attractive fan brackets. They really open up your mounting options.

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There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

Prince

I have a Dell Dimension 4400. I was looking at drive coolers last night, but I don't see where these would fit. Wouldn't the cooler pretty much use up the space of another drive? What about those pci coolers, would those help at all? I have no HDD slots free in the case, but at least two PCIs.

As for fan brackets, I am quite inclined but not sure as to where it would go.

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Dilbert1234567

my Seagate 7200.9 250 gig is running at 43 C right now
my 2, WD 320 gig are ar 32 and 33 C
my WD 120 gig are running at 34C

My 7200.10 is plugged into a raid and I can’t access the smart data or sensors, it is physically hotter then the 43C drive, with the same air flow.

50C is the upper bound in my mind for hard drive temps, they can take more then that, but i wouldn't. They do make 5.25 inch bay coolers for hard drives; they consist of a mount and some fans that draw across the drive.

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Prince

There they are. All crammed up together.

I was wrong about it all being full, looks like a whole empty slot there. Maybe one of those 5.25" hdd coolers would work then. It would at least cool the new drive.

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cyrnel

That would be the simplest. You wouldn't get much airflow in any of those 3.5" bays.

One alternative I've used is to mount thin fans (usually 60mm cpu) at the front of the case, in front of the drives. Whether this can work depends on the case, but even a small increase in airflow makes a big difference in drive temps. What's nice about it is you can cool 3 drives with a single fan.

About the brackets, I usually attach them to the underside drive mounts. Sometimes to the case itself. Drive attachment is easier. Modifying the case means disassembly or being very careful about debris. That depends on if it's a make-it-work build or someone's pride and joy.

Dilbert, I feel a drive temp test coming up.

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There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

Prince

Got the new drive today and it's running smoothly. Am still in the installation process so I can't say as to how hot or cool it runs.

I had a question though... If a slave HD on IDE1 is switched to be the master of IDE2, will it still have the same drive letters asigned to its partitions? Assuming it has no primary partition, just one large extended divided into logicals?

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Who is John Galt?

cyrnel

If nothing is installed "between" them, it should be okay, but there's no guarantee. XP drive enumeration can cause weird results on some hardware. Try it with safe-boot to make sure so you can re-order drive letters if needed. Better than allowing the usual horde of software to start and freak fantastic because letters changed.

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There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

Dilbert1234567

Probably place the OS drive on channel 0 as master (with out slave present) and on channel 1, the new hard drive as master and the optical as slave.

Drive letters should be no problem, when you add the drive, it will not be formatted, and hence not have a drive letter. After windows boots, initialize the disk, add a partition, format it (full format, don’t do the half ass quick format) then give it a drive letter.

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Prince

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817121909

That's the hd cooler I got for the new drive. It's cheap and simple, and depending on your taste it looks either really good, or really bad.

I also replaced the oem case fan with an Antec Pro fan.

With both measures taken, the on-load temp has dropped on both drives significantly. The new drive has dropped from 38-40 C to 24 C, and the slave (which doesn't have its own cooler) from 42-44 to 34 C. Both are running nice and cool now...they're happy, and so am I.

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Who is John Galt?

cyrnel

That'll work. Fanless is always nice if you can get away with it.