Congress to subpoena baseball stars over steroid use - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

CShine · 03-09-2005, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Jose Canseco, Mark McGwire and Jason Giambi were among seven current and former baseball stars that a congressional committee plans to subpoena as soon as Wednesday to testify about steroids. Curt Schilling, Sammy Sosa, Rafael Palmeiro and Frank Thomas also were asked last week to testify. Thus far, only Canseco and Thomas have said they were willing to appear.

“We hope subpoenas won’t be necessary, but we are prepared to move forward with subpoenas tomorrow if we receive information that witnesses are not willing to appear voluntarily,” David Marin, a spokesman for House Government Reform Committee chairman Rep. Tom Davis, said Tuesday.

The Baltimore Sun first reported on the subpoenas earlier Tuesday on its Web site.

Lawyers for the baseball commissioner’s office and players’ association attempted to negotiate a joint response to the committee, which last week invited the players and several officials to appear at the March 17 hearing.

Baseball commissioner Bud Selig, union head Donald Fehr, baseball executive vice president Sandy Alderson and San Diego general manager Kevin Towers also were asked to testify.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7132563/

MikeyChalupa · 03-09-2005, 03:45 AM

Well if nothing else, it's a chance to see who takes the fifth. I can't wait to hear Barry Bonds' testimony. I hope this will be on C-SPAN.

-Mikey

TheJig · 03-09-2005, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeyChalupa

Well if nothing else, it's a chance to see who takes the fifth. I can't wait to hear Barry Bonds' testimony. I hope this will be on C-SPAN.

-Mikey

Actually, I don't think Bonds is going to testify. It doesn't matter to me whether he does or not. He's still guilty either way. I'm more interested in what Canseco has to say. I know he did it for the money, but I think it's great that someone is finally exposing some of the cheaters.

kutulu · 03-09-2005, 09:13 AM

This is asinine. There is no reason for the government to be wasting millions of dollars to find out if players used steroids up to a few years ago. Just what are they expecting to find out? Is the goal just to out users so that the public can feel some sort of justification for their contempt?

They cannot prosecute people for use of steroids unless they have them in possession. There is NOTHING for the government to gain by this other than a sense of 'I was right'. Total fucking waste of money.

dbc · 03-09-2005, 09:22 AM

I don't understand the point. Are they just conducting an investigation for the hell of it or because there think there is actually something to be gained?

ScottKuma · 03-09-2005, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbc

I don't understand the point. Are they just conducting an investigation for the hell of it or because there think there is actually something to be gained?

They want to make a stink & to get across the idea that "Steroids = bad".

Think about the children!

Personally, I don't give a darn about what the players did when these substances were allowed by baseball....

kutulu · 03-09-2005, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottKuma

They want to make a stink & to get across the idea that "Steroids = bad".

Think about the children!

Personally, I don't give a darn about what the players did when these substances were allowed by baseball....

Steroids were not banned by the CBA until either 2002 or 2003. Have whatever opinions you want to have about how they were illegal anyways but the fact is that baseball knew there was a problem and didn't give a fuck about it. They didn't even do anything to discourage the use. If a player had a drinking problem, they'd sit him down and try to help him. Steroids were not a 'steroids problem' because there were no 'steroids problems' if it results in more wins or higher fan attendance.

jobu · 03-10-2005, 09:18 AM

the greatest thing about baseball is the history of the game. the owners and the commisioner have an obligation to protect that history. by letting steroids become so rampant it has become clear that they have failed that obligation. the governemnt sees that the owners won't uphold this obligation and therefore feels it needs to step in. i don't think anything will come out of this but it will be fun to watch these guys get paraded up there. hopefully someone will speak. let's also not forget that this has become a pr circus and all these politicians are whores for the spotlight.

MSD · 03-10-2005, 09:23 AM

The government has no right to regulate this in the first place, so I don't see why they should be subpoenaing players about it.

lordpoopshank · 03-11-2005, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kutulu

This is asinine. There is no reason for the government to be wasting millions of dollars to find out if players used steroids up to a few years ago. Just what are they expecting to find out? Is the goal just to out users so that the public can feel some sort of justification for their contempt?

They cannot prosecute people for use of steroids unless they have them in possession. There is NOTHING for the government to gain by this other than a sense of 'I was right'. Total fucking waste of money.

Agreed. Lets not waste any more time or money kicking the dog while hes down. Drugs have been in the sporting world for decades, and will be even with testing. Until players are subject to daily testing, and the continued development of non-traceable enhancers suddenly stops, how can you ever be sure they are clean? I dont have the answer, but I guess MLB testing is a step in the right direction. Oh yeah, and whille Congress is at it, why dont they send a subpoena over to our buddy Lawrence Taylor and ask him about drug use in the NFL over the past 20 years.

Blackthorn · 03-17-2005, 10:34 AM

A picture paints 1000 words.....

Baseball Commissioner Bud Selig, left, and MLB President Bob DuPuy listen to testimony Thursday.

Let's analyze the body language shall we?

Selig: "I'm about ready to retire anyway so I don't care what these idiots put into their bodies. I've made my millions off of their benevolance toward their physical health and longevity".

DuPuy: "Is this meeting going to go past lunch time? I've got two hookies lined up who are going to take care of bidnuss with me back at my Georgetown hotel room and after I've gotten my rocks off with them I'm going to the Raven's Nest for dinner. I really have no time for this."

canuckguy · 03-17-2005, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kutulu

This is asinine. There is no reason for the government to be wasting millions of dollars to find out if players used steroids up to a few years ago. Just what are they expecting to find out? Is the goal just to out users so that the public can feel some sort of justification for their contempt?

They cannot prosecute people for use of steroids unless they have them in possession. There is NOTHING for the government to gain by this other than a sense of 'I was right'. Total fucking waste of money.

I felt the same way until I got a chance to find out more about the new drug testing policy that mlb has put in place, the 1 hour alone during the test is a joke, the fine without naming the player publicly is a joke. too much to type, still watching it live, i hope they can make the game clean again. did seem like a waste of time, but now it seems that the mlb does not care about cleaning up the game, nor do the players.

thatoneguy · 03-17-2005, 12:22 PM

I don't understand why Congress is so intent on getting these players to admit things about steroids, what are they going to do if they say they used? They have no authority over baseball. It's just like others have said, they want to make a huge deal out of it, regardless of whether there is anything to actually be gained by all of this nonsense. Doesn't make any sense to me, but then again, I don't really care either.

heccubusiv · 03-17-2005, 12:42 PM

I am glad congress has solved all the other problems in the country, I know steroids are a CIII and all but there are more serious problems then steroids in baseball. If steroid companies put in money to congress like the cigerate companies(which kill more people a year) then his whole situation would not happen.

rapinyan · 03-17-2005, 01:34 PM

Okay here's what I think....although probably no one cares.

I feel like steriods in baseball is cheating just as much as the next guy, but speaking from experience larger muscles don't gaurentee(sp) a .300 avg. Hitting a major league fastball or any of the other 10 pitches thrown these days takes a lot more than a juiced up body. But again, cheating is cheating.

But congressional hearings, come on! For example, this past week in NASCAR a few drivers including the race winner were caught for some illegal modifications to their rides. Now a lower hood or whatever they did will insure that your car is much faster and handles better than your opponents. Their punishments....court cases?...no...congress...no...front page of sports section...maybe. But really 25 points and a few hours of mention on the hardcore racing forums is pretty petty for blatently cheating in sports.
I still think that MLB should have much stiffer penalties.

jmho

R

MikeyChalupa · 03-17-2005, 06:41 PM

Oh man McGwire ate a huge shit sandwich today. I think he took a credibility hit today he will NEVER recover from. It almost would have been better for him to admit using steroids to Congress instead of that "I'm not here to talk about the past" horseshit. Now he's not just a cheater, he's a liar too.

And what's with Canseco? He won't answer questions because he didn't get immunity? WHAT ABOUT HIS BOOK? That's what started this whole mess and now he's all of a sudden shutting up.

The worst though was Selig and Fehr and that complete retard Manfred. They came off as bumbling idiots. Selig says he's doing all he can; Fehr hides behind the CBA, and Manfred is a smarmy bastard. I hope and expect Congress will step in and save baseball from itself. Today was a travesty and hopefully something good will come of it.

-Mikey

jorgelito · 03-17-2005, 07:00 PM

I also wondered what the hell Congress has to do with it.

But, from what I gather, I think it is:

1. Steroids ARE illegal period, without a prescirption in the United States of America. Doesn't matter if they're not banned in baseball, they're banned in the US.

2. MLB enjoys a legal monopoly. As such, Congress is checking up on it to see if it deserves to maintain that status. (I'm not really sure how it's related but that's what I gathered - Congress's interest has something to do with the MLB monopoly).

3. Baseball is the national past time of the USA. As a national institution, Congress feels a duty to protect its image and reflection of the USA (ok, I'm stretching with this one but it could be). So, grandstanding by Congress as defenders of good American values is good for their PR (disgusting politicking)

I dunno, I thought I'd offer another point of view to this whole affair.

Yeah, why didn't Cansenco pony up? Can't the book be used as testimony against him?

Lockjaw · 03-17-2005, 09:01 PM

Schiling made me want to fall over laughing when he said he knew of only like 5-10 guys in 15 years that did roids. I could probably find 5-10 dudes at the local gym in 15 minutes that do them.

And the whole "Should people who have been discovered using steriods have their records taken?" thing where they all pussed out and said
"Well it's not up to me."
Not shit you roid freaks but that still doesn't answer the question.

guthmund · 03-17-2005, 09:50 PM

I don't know why Congress decided to involve themselves.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by The State of the Union - 2004

The use of performance-enhancing drugs like steroids in baseball, football, and other sports is dangerous, and it sends the wrong message -- that there are shortcuts to accomplishment, and that performance is more important than character. So tonight I call on team owners, union representatives, coaches, and players to take the lead, to send the right signal, to get tough, and to get rid of steroids now.

Congress has always been about self-promotion and self-aggrandizement at whatever the cost. In this case, they can go about slamming Major League Baseball, get themselves on television a whole bunch and please the administration all in one fell swoop of subpeonas and a few days of looking outraged behind their microphones and name plates.

Instead of making an effort to really focus on something notable like...I don't know...we seem to have an oil crunch headed this way (like it ever left), the decline of the dollar, the enormous trade deficit, or perhaps the fiasco that is the Middle East, The Congress has decided to go after middle-aged men who wear tight pants and cleats for a living. Congress isn't serious. They didn't even bother to force the two players (Bonds and Giambi) that everyone is dying to hear from to testify. They didn't bother dragging up the NFL or the NHL. Two other professional sports organizations both with much more lenient steroids policy than the "new" MLB policy.

Do you think anything will come of this? I don't. They'll listen, talk tough and might put forth a suggestion that maybe in the future MLB might want to think about engaging the players in bi-lateral talks to discuss the possiblity of instigating a tougher policy concerning "performance enhancing drugs," which will be a list of things like power shake shit from GNC with no mention of steroids at all.

But they'll be on television a lot. And they'll make the rounds from news channel to news channel patting themselves on the back for what they did.

dylanmarsh · 03-17-2005, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeyChalupa

The worst though was Selig and Fehr and that complete retard Manfred. They came off as bumbling idiots. Selig says he's doing all he can; Fehr hides behind the CBA, and Manfred is a smarmy bastard. -Mikey

I totally agree about that Manfred-guy. I kept waiting for him to pull a dead baby out his briefcase and start eating it in front of the committee.

Brass fucking balls, every last one of them.

canuckguy · 03-18-2005, 05:06 PM

Sadly that Canseco and Rafi looked like the only two honest guys on at the table. I always assumed McGwire was on the juice, now he just sunk himself. He was overrated as a player and now he is jerk for not telling the truth. sorry imo

jobu · 03-19-2005, 09:50 AM

Congress – I really didn’t think this was necessary at first, but it showed that their drug policy was a complete farce. Designed only to take the issue out of the spotlight.

Schilling – It was fun watching him jump from one side of a position to another.

Palmeiro – I think I believe him.

McGuire – It might have been better if he had just come out and admitted it. It also makes me sick when I see someone start crying when they finally get caught for their wrong doings. Stand there and take it like a man!

Sosa – A total liar. He speaks and understands English perfectly. I hope someone proves him wrong.

Casco – I think there is a lot if truth to what he has to say.

Manfred – Is he one of Mr. Burn’s lawyers?

Sleigh – It’s time to go.

Fear – My favorite part was watching him forget his answer.

lordpoopshank · 03-19-2005, 11:30 AM

Big Mac looked like a complete idiot. I thought the saddest part of the whole thing was when he was asked if he could look his son in the eyes and tell him that he played the game ethically, and all Mac could do was repeat the same lame ass "not here to talk about the past" statement. Pathetic.

alec · 03-19-2005, 12:58 PM

yah, fuck mcgwire, but fuck sammy sosa too

we all know he completely lied, from going from a subpar powerless <25 HR's guy to over 40 and then 50 etc in a matter of years. that, and his face looks like a square.

but, so it is

kutulu · 03-19-2005, 01:14 PM

I'm proud of Mac for the way he stood up for himself and didn't let them tell him what to say. He didn't need to say shit to them. Guilty or innocent I would have pled the 5th

flstf · 03-19-2005, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lockjaw

Schiling made me want to fall over laughing when he said he knew of only like 5-10 guys in 15 years that did roids. I could probably find 5-10 dudes at the local gym in 15 minutes that do them.

Quote:

Time to change stance on steroids
Curt Schilling of the Arizona Diamondbacks, one of the best pitchers in baseball and widely respected, told the Washington Post, "Steroids are incredibly prominent in the game, I don't think there's any question about that."

Asked what percentage of players are using steroids, Schilling said, "I would say it's 50 percent and the 50 percent who haven't used it have considered it.

I don't think this stuff should be in front of congress but these guys should at least learn to lie a little better. I wonder if this steroid use could cause some to be denied the HOF and/or asterisked records..

Lockjaw · 03-19-2005, 08:26 PM

But if he KNOWS 50% of the people are using there ain't a chance in hell he personally only knows 10 guys in 15 years that have done it. That was another one of his flip flops to make himself seem like less of a joke.

flstf · 03-20-2005, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lockjaw

But if he KNOWS 50% of the people are using there ain't a chance in hell he personally only knows 10 guys in 15 years that have done it. That was another one of his flip flops to make himself seem like less of a joke.

Yeah Schilling changed his tune at the hearings, below are some other quotes of his.

Quote:

Sports Illustrated
Arizona Diamondbacks righthander Curt Schilling thinks twice before giving a teammate the traditional slap on the butt for a job well-done. "I'll pat guys on the ass, and they'll look at me and go, 'Don't hit me there, man. It hurts,'" Schilling says. "That's because that's where they shoot the steroid needles."

Schilling says that muscle-building drugs have transformed baseball into something of a freak show. "You sit there and look at some of these players and you know what's going on," he says. "Guys out there look like Mr. Potato Head, with a head and arms and six or seven body parts that just don't look right. They don't fit. I'm not sure how [steroid use] snuck in so quickly, but it's become a prominent thing very quietly. It's widely known in the game.

"We're playing in an environment in the last decade that's been tailored to produce offensive numbers anyway, with the smaller ballparks, the smaller strike zone and so forth," Schilling continues. "When you add in steroids and strength training, you're seeing records not just being broken but completely shattered.

"I know guys who use and don't admit it because they think it means they don't work hard. And I know plenty of guys now are mixing steroids with human growth hormone. Those guys are pretty obvious."

03-17-2005, 10:34 AM	#11 (permalink)
Blackthorn Beware the Mad Irish Location: Wish I was on the N17...	A picture paints 1000 words..... Baseball Commissioner Bud Selig, left, and MLB President Bob DuPuy listen to testimony Thursday. Let's analyze the body language shall we? Selig: "I'm about ready to retire anyway so I don't care what these idiots put into their bodies. I've made my millions off of their benevolance toward their physical health and longevity". DuPuy: "Is this meeting going to go past lunch time? I've got two hookies lined up who are going to take care of bidnuss with me back at my Georgetown hotel room and after I've gotten my rocks off with them I'm going to the Raven's Nest for dinner. I really have no time for this." __________________ What are you willing to give up in order to get what you want? Last edited by Blackthorn; 03-17-2005 at 10:38 AM..

03-17-2005, 12:22 PM	#13 (permalink)
thatoneguy Crazy Location: Omaha, NE	I don't understand why Congress is so intent on getting these players to admit things about steroids, what are they going to do if they say they used? They have no authority over baseball. It's just like others have said, they want to make a huge deal out of it, regardless of whether there is anything to actually be gained by all of this nonsense. Doesn't make any sense to me, but then again, I don't really care either. __________________ "Thank you for flying Church of England, cake or death?"

03-17-2005, 12:42 PM	#14 (permalink)
heccubusiv #1 Irish Fan Location: The Burgh	I am glad congress has solved all the other problems in the country, I know steroids are a CIII and all but there are more serious problems then steroids in baseball. If steroid companies put in money to congress like the cigerate companies(which kill more people a year) then his whole situation would not happen. __________________ Fuck Ohio

03-09-2005, 03:45 AM	#2 (permalink)
MikeyChalupa Squid Location: USS George Washington	Well if nothing else, it's a chance to see who takes the fifth. I can't wait to hear Barry Bonds' testimony. I hope this will be on C-SPAN. -Mikey

03-09-2005, 09:13 AM	#4 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	This is asinine. There is no reason for the government to be wasting millions of dollars to find out if players used steroids up to a few years ago. Just what are they expecting to find out? Is the goal just to out users so that the public can feel some sort of justification for their contempt? They cannot prosecute people for use of steroids unless they have them in possession. There is NOTHING for the government to gain by this other than a sense of 'I was right'. Total fucking waste of money.

03-09-2005, 09:22 AM	#5 (permalink)
dbc Tilted	I don't understand the point. Are they just conducting an investigation for the hell of it or because there think there is actually something to be gained?

03-10-2005, 09:18 AM	#8 (permalink)
jobu Crazy	the greatest thing about baseball is the history of the game. the owners and the commisioner have an obligation to protect that history. by letting steroids become so rampant it has become clear that they have failed that obligation. the governemnt sees that the owners won't uphold this obligation and therefore feels it needs to step in. i don't think anything will come out of this but it will be fun to watch these guys get paraded up there. hopefully someone will speak. let's also not forget that this has become a pr circus and all these politicians are whores for the spotlight.

03-10-2005, 09:23 AM	#9 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	The government has no right to regulate this in the first place, so I don't see why they should be subpoenaing players about it.

03-17-2005, 01:34 PM	#15 (permalink)
rapinyan Upright	Okay here's what I think....although probably no one cares. I feel like steriods in baseball is cheating just as much as the next guy, but speaking from experience larger muscles don't gaurentee(sp) a .300 avg. Hitting a major league fastball or any of the other 10 pitches thrown these days takes a lot more than a juiced up body. But again, cheating is cheating. But congressional hearings, come on! For example, this past week in NASCAR a few drivers including the race winner were caught for some illegal modifications to their rides. Now a lower hood or whatever they did will insure that your car is much faster and handles better than your opponents. Their punishments....court cases?...no...congress...no...front page of sports section...maybe. But really 25 points and a few hours of mention on the hardcore racing forums is pretty petty for blatently cheating in sports. I still think that MLB should have much stiffer penalties. jmho R

03-17-2005, 06:41 PM	#16 (permalink)
MikeyChalupa Squid Location: USS George Washington	Oh man McGwire ate a huge shit sandwich today. I think he took a credibility hit today he will NEVER recover from. It almost would have been better for him to admit using steroids to Congress instead of that "I'm not here to talk about the past" horseshit. Now he's not just a cheater, he's a liar too. And what's with Canseco? He won't answer questions because he didn't get immunity? WHAT ABOUT HIS BOOK? That's what started this whole mess and now he's all of a sudden shutting up. The worst though was Selig and Fehr and that complete retard Manfred. They came off as bumbling idiots. Selig says he's doing all he can; Fehr hides behind the CBA, and Manfred is a smarmy bastard. I hope and expect Congress will step in and save baseball from itself. Today was a travesty and hopefully something good will come of it. -Mikey

03-17-2005, 07:00 PM	#17 (permalink)
jorgelito All important elusive independent swing voter... Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia	I also wondered what the hell Congress has to do with it. But, from what I gather, I think it is: 1. Steroids ARE illegal period, without a prescirption in the United States of America. Doesn't matter if they're not banned in baseball, they're banned in the US. 2. MLB enjoys a legal monopoly. As such, Congress is checking up on it to see if it deserves to maintain that status. (I'm not really sure how it's related but that's what I gathered - Congress's interest has something to do with the MLB monopoly). 3. Baseball is the national past time of the USA. As a national institution, Congress feels a duty to protect its image and reflection of the USA (ok, I'm stretching with this one but it could be). So, grandstanding by Congress as defenders of good American values is good for their PR (disgusting politicking) I dunno, I thought I'd offer another point of view to this whole affair. Yeah, why didn't Cansenco pony up? Can't the book be used as testimony against him?

03-17-2005, 09:01 PM	#18 (permalink)
Lockjaw Junkie	Schiling made me want to fall over laughing when he said he knew of only like 5-10 guys in 15 years that did roids. I could probably find 5-10 dudes at the local gym in 15 minutes that do them. And the whole "Should people who have been discovered using steriods have their records taken?" thing where they all pussed out and said "Well it's not up to me." Not shit you roid freaks but that still doesn't answer the question.

03-18-2005, 05:06 PM	#21 (permalink)
canuckguy I read your emails. Location: earth	Sadly that Canseco and Rafi looked like the only two honest guys on at the table. I always assumed McGwire was on the juice, now he just sunk himself. He was overrated as a player and now he is jerk for not telling the truth. sorry imo

03-19-2005, 09:50 AM	#22 (permalink)
jobu Crazy	Congress – I really didn’t think this was necessary at first, but it showed that their drug policy was a complete farce. Designed only to take the issue out of the spotlight. Schilling – It was fun watching him jump from one side of a position to another. Palmeiro – I think I believe him. McGuire – It might have been better if he had just come out and admitted it. It also makes me sick when I see someone start crying when they finally get caught for their wrong doings. Stand there and take it like a man! Sosa – A total liar. He speaks and understands English perfectly. I hope someone proves him wrong. Casco – I think there is a lot if truth to what he has to say. Manfred – Is he one of Mr. Burn’s lawyers? Sleigh – It’s time to go. Fear – My favorite part was watching him forget his answer.

03-19-2005, 11:30 AM	#23 (permalink)
lordpoopshank Tilted	Big Mac looked like a complete idiot. I thought the saddest part of the whole thing was when he was asked if he could look his son in the eyes and tell him that he played the game ethically, and all Mac could do was repeat the same lame ass "not here to talk about the past" statement. Pathetic.

03-19-2005, 12:58 PM	#24 (permalink)
alec Insane Location: Washington DC	yah, fuck mcgwire, but fuck sammy sosa too we all know he completely lied, from going from a subpar powerless <25 HR's guy to over 40 and then 50 etc in a matter of years. that, and his face looks like a square. but, so it is

03-19-2005, 01:14 PM	#25 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	I'm proud of Mac for the way he stood up for himself and didn't let them tell him what to say. He didn't need to say shit to them. Guilty or innocent I would have pled the 5th

03-19-2005, 08:26 PM	#27 (permalink)
Lockjaw Junkie	But if he KNOWS 50% of the people are using there ain't a chance in hell he personally only knows 10 guys in 15 years that have done it. That was another one of his flip flops to make himself seem like less of a joke.