Is MMA a sport?
 

I think it is only appropriate to make a separate thread about this, so as not to not fill the thread about which MMA fighter will win which brawl with comments about its validity as a sport

I will make the following points

1 - To strike a man when he is down is utterly cowardly. Any person who chooses to compete in a sport where a key factor is the striking of a fallen man fundamentally has an element of cowardice in his personality. The rule of MMA encourage cowardice

Many of the people who will comment on this are men, who were once boys, and as a kid at school or as a man in life - we probably have all been in some kind of fight or other. Assuming you arent fighting for your life - if you knock a man down, you let him get up and fight. When he says down the fight is over. Full stop. The rules of MMA are a direct affront to the basic concepts of sport and masculinity. You dont hit a man that is down, you dont hit a man in the back. Full stop.

2 - Wrestling requires some but little skill. If you look at MMA records even the best fighters have losses... thats because every MMA fight is a lottery. You slip up, or get taken down, and someone has you in a position to break your arm in a second. You either submit, or cant carry on anyway. MMA is about as fair judge of supremacy as the average brawl in a pub car park . One mistake and the fights over thats it. Anyone with a basic level of toughness and strength could be a MMA champion after 2 months of training

3 - MMA has no history. Boxing goes back to men like James Figg, Tom Cribb, Jem Mace (and if you dont know who they are you dont know much about combat sports in general)... the holder of the world championship may be involved in alphabet politics, but they also inherit a title that can be best described as "The Emperor of Masculinity". Boxing has produced Marciano, Pep, Ali, Louis, Johnson, Leonard, Robinson, Sullivan, Mace, Chazev, Foreman, Dempsey, Wilde, Holmes, Liston, Tyson... MMA has names like Graycie, Silva, Liddell...

Yeah, exactly. Who?

I don't get it myself.

3 - MMA has no history. Boxing goes back to men like James Figg, Tom Cribb, Jem Mace (and if you dont know who they are you dont know much about combat sports in general)... the holder of the world championship may be involved in alphabet politics, but they also inherit a title that can be best described as "The Emperor of Masculinity". Boxing has produced Marciano, Pep, Ali, Louis, Johnson, Leonard, Robinson, Sullivan, Mace, Chazev, Foreman, Dempsey, Wilde, Holmes, Liston, Tyson... MMA has names like Graycie, Silva, Liddell...

Yeah, exactly. Who?[/QUOTE]
Nope I have no ide who they are and guess what, I know a hell of a lot more about combat sports than someone who didn't even know how long an MMA fight was, or someone who thinks wrestling takes little skill. As for this "The Emperor of Masculinity" never heard a boxer use a title like that, guess he didn't want to sound like he likes to suck cock, because to me that title screams cocksucker.

Nice thread though, at least all you ignorance can shine in one spot now for all to see, should be a funny thread, I bet it gets HOF worthy rather quickly.

Oh yeah, didn't you start another thread like this before and just regurgitate the same arguments you make, I remember that rather feminine "The Emperor of Masculinity" thing being mentioned, still sounds like the title of someone who loves the cock.

Here we go again.

It isn't cowardice. MMA incorporates all forms of martial arts, hence grappling takes things to the ground, hence fighters take damage on the ground. They can defend it, it's not like they are getting smoked in a completely defenseless position. If you were not so ignorant about the sport you would know that a lot of fighters fight off their back, its their game plan.

We all know you jock boxing, the refs in MMA are actually there to help fighters. Instead of me getting knocked retarded and getting punch drunk as shit from standing 8 counts, the second I catch a flash knockout the ref is in the scrap and stopping the fight.

False, stupid, and completely ignorant point.


Every MMA fight is a lottery? It's called a punchers chance. Take a look at guys like Mike Brown, Fedor, or Anderson Silva who haven't lost in years. GSP has avenged in devastating fashion his two losses.

Just because MMA doesn't feed cans to fighters like in boxing, just because they don't protect fighters, doesn't mean it's a lottery. There is always a punchers chance like in boxing ala Douglas, Pavlic, Rahman, and Tarver.

Everything has to have it's start. You're talking shit about a sport that started less than 20 years ago and has already surpassed boxing in popularity.

Boxing is a joke, you have no centralized system, no unified titles. You have corruption, and you protect your fighters. Promoters ruined your sport and your time is passed, you have no stable for the future.

Starting this thread again eh? For a guy who hates MMA you spend alot of time on it. Fine. I'll bite.

THIS IS WRONG FULL FUCKING STOP and as long as you don't get the fact that there is a difference between a downed opponent and a defenseless opponent. Ask a BJJ martial artist if he wants to be on his back. Royce Gracie won many of his fights on his back.
Apparently it's more manly to hit a guy thats already punchdrunk but still standing.

How many of the great boxers have a loss or two in their carreer? Does that mean that boxing is a lottery too since everyone has a puncher's chance?
MMA is hardly a "lottery". Part of what has made Georges St. Pierre so successfull is that Greg Jackson is known as one of the best cornermen in MMA. He and GSP are known for coming up with a plan to defeat each and every opponents and the result has been GSP's dominance of the welterweight division. Yes he has two losses on his record but he has done what a true champion does. Take his losses, learn from them and use them to make him a better fighter.
If you want an undefeated fighter.

Lyoto Machida.
Current Light Heavyweight Champion.
Professional Record
15 wins - 0 Losses

There is nothing lucky about why Lyoto has been dominant in every fight he's been in.
First - He uses a very unorthodox style combining Shotokan Karate, Sumo, and Brazilian Jui-Jitsu.
Second - He's fast and very very hard to hit. While he may not have the most powerful punches he was very accurate strikes.
Third - He trains with the best. He trains with Anderson Silva. One of the best fighters in the world.

Yes Boxing has more history. You'd have to be an idiot to argue that. MMA doesn't have the history that Boxing does but it's gaining it.
I looked up the current boxing champions. How many names did I know on the current list of the "best in the world"? Two. I've heard of the Klitschkos but the truth is that I couldn't pick either of them out of a lineup.
MMA's growing and moving more and more into the mainstream. Case in point, Georges St. Pierre is appearing Gatorade's most recent ad campain here in Canada as well as being named Sportsnet (one of the national tv sports channels) Canadian Athlete of the Year. GSP is becoming one of the most well known atheletes in Canada. Many people who have never watched an MMA fight in their lives know who Georges St. Pierre is.
Another example. One of UFC's biggest sponser a few years ago, Mickey's Malt Liquor. UFC's sponsers now? Anheuser-Busch. Can't get much more mainstream than Bud.

Mojo you missed the best part of the thread:
I say get your ass to a gym SF and prove this point, I'd like to see you fight let's say Bisping, simply because he's British and it would be close travel time, we'll give you two months to train, then 5 seconds to get your ass knocked out.

SF please learn about a topic before you make a thread where you're going to look foolish, as I said before you're a good guy and I usually agree with you on most things, but on this you're so off it isn't funny.

I think I was so stunned that somebody could actually make such a stupid comment that I blanked it.

LOL, yeah I had to rethink my answer to clean it up a little, I still say get SF in a gym for 2 months then throw him in a cage with some nobody British MMA fighter and watch hilarity ensue, I bet he cries like a guy on his first night in prison.haha

Is it too early to nominate this thread for the Hall of Fame? I have a feeling by tomorrow it'll be well worthy of it.

---------- Post added at 06:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:34 PM ----------

It's almost like he gets knocked around in one thread, and doesn't learn, so he makes a totally separate thread to showcase that he really knows nothing about the sport, then gets knocked around in it again, fuck if this were boxing SF would be so punch drunk from standing 8 counts he'd think he's Dame Vera Lynn.

I will give SF this. Boxing is indeed more dangerous than MMA to those competing in it.

http://www.jssm.org/combat/1/18/v5combat-18.pdf

NO worries Charlatan, I was just being a smartass, SF and I have a good relationship for being smartasses to each other(I think) so we're usually just playing around, we'll keep it on topic, but if it gets good enough can we please HOF this bad boy:lol:

Is it a sport? More so than say, gymnastics, figure skating, diving, or any other "sport" which determines the winner based on the scoring of a panel of judges.

If MMA isn't a sport, then where does that leave boxing? If MMA isn't a sport then certainly boxing isn't either, as all you have to do is punch, duck, slide, repeat....it's like instructions on a shampoo bottle.

To keep this short, I will only describe how I, among likeminded others, discern the differences between what some consider to be "sport", and what others call "acquired skill (competitions)".

Sports, as I see it, is a "game" in which there is a contest among players that should provide both a winner and a loser. Also to be mentioned, the clash between contestants must be tangible in some form or another, thereby adding a verifiable element of defense/resistance to the feats of athletics. This way, there can be debate as to whether or not the one one prevailed won because of meirts, skill, tactics and/or luck, because "sports" combines all those factors in the determination of a true winner, not just one.

So, by my technical definition above, I'll elaborate simply and say that the mixed martial arts arena is indeed a sport. It matters not what why some may see the rules' allowance and tactics of the sport as "cowardly or cheap", or that it has no history (it actually, indeed, has a richer history before the UFC, but because of how it arose, most of the details are eschewed due to its "subdued nature" in comparison to the original no holds-barred test of the ultimate warrior). MMA was a ground-zero sport less than two decades ago, and it is a rapidly-rising "child" sport in the world media awareness. Some need to accept the facts: sports are sports no matter how much you disagree/despise the tactics employed to win within the scope of the game.

Also, I wanted to add that I don't consider these activites to be sports either, (although I do acknowledge the incredible degree of skill the participant/athlete needs to become a top professional in their field):

Golf is not a sport. It is a competition against nature and taxation to be the one person with the lowest score at the end of regulation. Yes, you do have competitor's in the mix, but they do not "actively" affect your game, nor do they pose any sort of hindrance to your shots/puts, so the "sport" of golf is more akin to a single gathering of competitors participating in an "acquired skills activity".

NASCAR/Indy/F1/Rally/Motor-racing is not a sport either. It is teetering on my definition above, but it is more to do with employed strategies of the machine in which you are occupying, and having to fend off of the possibility that you can collide disastrously with your fellow competitors. There is no "active" form of defense allowed in the racing, save for hogging the road to keep a rival from passing you, or just maintaining your lead long enough to pull off a good showing. Another "acquired skill" competition.

Card games are not sports. Billiards and bowling are not sports. Competitions with destroying balls, not so much your opponent. Swimming competitions are not sports. Neither is gymnastics. The last two are more "athletic showcasing", but there is "colliding competitiveness" to them, other than beating a certain score/time that you have knowledge to reach. Fishing is a great activity, but again, your only competition is nature.


Basketball, baseball, cricket, football, futbol (soccer), tennis, ping-pong, field hockey, real hockey, boxing, MMA, are all sports because they force competition between men, hand-to-hand, face-to-face, and whoever doesn't show up, loses. This is what I what I typify as being able to be called a true sport; the ability to face mutable adversary, adjust to it, and learn to overcome it over the course of the game. I guess it's more the presence of a "real human defense factor", but it sounds much better the way it is expressed above. Jai-Alai is a sport to a lesser extent, a "fringe" sport you can say, but there is a discernable level of defense one can mount to be a world-class ball-crusher in that field.

post-script: goldarnit, slippy sam. my post above is anything but "short". sorry for the superfluous info and examples guys.

if feeding christians to the lions was a sport, why wouldnt MMA be a sport?

Jesus fuck this gave me one hell of a chuckle, I never thought of that, nice one dlish.

Jetée, that's keeping it short, I want to read something by you when you actually put a lot of thought into it, seriously though, I bet it would be good.

Yeah, I seriously thought it was going to be an opening headline, and two small descritive paragraphs of what I define a "sport" vs. "acquired skill" to be, but I ended up getting too carried away with examples of the like. Haha.

It's easy to get carried away, the logic in the OP is so flawed that examples pop into your head and you're not even looking for any more because what you typed already proved your point. I know even now I can still think of more examples, but I reckon I'll wait and see where this thread is by tomorrow morning.....hopefully HOF bound:)

Strange, wtf?

Do we really have to do this again?

Being on your back in an INTEGRAL part of MMA. Until you understand this FUNDAMENTAL truth, don't bother lecturing us on cowardice vs. "manliness." You simply refuse to understand the sport.

Wrestling takes TONS of skill. And MMA fights are no more a lottery than boxing matches are. There are no reigning champions in lotteries. The same person doesn't win the lottery over and over again. Two people are going at it using their wits and skills. More often that not, the best fighters rise to the top of the heap. That's called fighting. It's a sport. Look it up.

Your statement that "MMA has no history" is meaningless. It hasn't been popular for as long as boxing has, for one thing, but once it has, then I guess it will have some history. Are you seriously arguing against something's validity simply because it hasn't been popular for long enough? What about the recession? Is that real? How long has it been going now? Long enough to be considered real?

You can keep your boxing history, because that's all it is: ancient history. The heyday of boxing is over, all the stars are gone, the majority of quality fighters are gone (there are a few shining exceptions, of course), and the old pay-per-view king has been replaced with a newer, more talented, more exciting champion: MMA. That's just the way it is.

What really bugs me about your confused stance is this: I enjoy boxing, and watch it often, and really wish there were more interesting fights out there. Fact is, there just aren't nearly as many as in MMA. MMA is STACKED with good fighters and good fights.

And training for two months won't even get you a second look on The Ultimate Fighter tryouts, much less a win in the octagon/ring. Ray Mercer should have taught you that.

Why did a new thread get started, could have just used the old one SF used the same arguments back in 2007, so no real need for a new thread, only disserence is the old one is called 'boxing vs. MMA', but still the same words used, 'cowardly, "The Emperor of Masculinity", fringe sport, tomato can opponebts, really no need or a new thread for the same old debate:
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/tilted-...ma-debate.html

MMA certainly hasnt surpassed boxing in terms of popularity. It maybe be popular amongst college aged men, but boxing has a much wider fanbase.

Boxing is the ultimate test of strength, bravery, skill and manliness. Two men pit themselves against each other in an honourable and scientific contest of toughness, strength and agility.

Compare this great spectacle to what we see in the average MMA fight.

Two men attempting to throttle each other or else trip a man up and then punch and kick him while he is defenseless on the floor. MMA requires little real skill. I see people actually talking about a guy having a black belt as if it was some kind of great achievment! there are 15 year old girls who have blackbelts in karate!

Look at the men who are being quoted as the heroes of MMA. George St Pierre, a man who has to cover himself in baby oil and grease before each fight so that the opponent cant get hold of him...because MMA doesnt have a propper governing body, but is governed by the promotor himself the "big stars" are allowed to get away with this kind of thing to help bulk up their records.

This topic should be merged with the "boxing vs. mma" debate

In point #3 of the OP he shows he is directly comparing MMA to boxing and that is his reason for beating this dead horse... I mean starting this new topic.

This is a pointless argument boys. Anyone who refuses to acknowledge a difference between a 'downed' opponent and a 'defenseless' opponent is simply not going to understand MMA.

Anyone who uses boxing as their example of bravery and skill simply will not ever understand MMA. MMA uses a multitude of skill and strengths while boxing uses. 2. move and punch. But, like I said, there's no point in arguing.

and thirdly, anyone who thinks that 2 months of training will create a belt around their waist, is probably on the best damn acid I've never had, and I'm jealous. If anyone who trained for 2 months would wear a belt, then we'd have thousands of ex-champions. Obviously, boxing requires training for years and years to become a champion but other sport does not. Obviously MMA is a just a cake walk that requires little dedication, even less skill, and even less if any attention.

So here's what I would do, and suggest to the rest of you: Don't feed the boxing troll. We can obviously support that boxing requires skill and strength but the troll cannot and has not ever in the past. We'd all just be better off ignoring this thread and letting it die into oblivion where it belongs.

I don't really want to feed Strange's weird schizophrenic fantasies, however, what I find interesting in respect of the whole "any tough guy could be an MMA champ in no time" statement, I was watching an old episode of Pros vs. Joes and they had Randy Couture on facing 3 Joes in quick succession. No striking was allowed, Couture fought each for a single 5 minute round. Whichever Joe tapped out least often was the winner. Couture, who is not a submission specialist, made each Joe tap out between 5 and 7 times within the 5 minute round. The guy who tapped out least (5 times) was an Army close combat instructor.

So there's a great example of a "tough guy" who has been training in various combat disciplines - including boxing, judo, karate, etc - for a number of years who still was forced to tap out repeatedly facing an MMA guy not reknowned for his submission skills.

How can someone go on about ultimate tests of strength, bravery, skill and manliness, and honourable and scientific contests of toughness, strength and agility, and yet say something like this?
(You do know that 15-year-old girls are trained boxers too, right? And, hey, did you hear the recent new about the 16-year-old who sailed solo around the world? It's amazing what one can do with strength, bravery, and skill.)

I see nothing wrong with being a boxing fanboy, but when you let it blind you to the understanding of other martial arts, then you will miss out on the reality of other forms of combat training.

My SO earned her brown belt (one rank below brown) when she was a teenager. I have little doubt that she could knock just about anyone on their ass if she wanted to, male or female. She is strong, quick, and skilled, and it is tempered with an uncanny discipline. I would say that she is as strong as many men.

If you think karate training can simply be passed off as something that "even grlz cn do!" then you have little hope of understanding any martial art outside of boxing. Sure, you can earn a black belt in 2 years if you wanted to, but you can only do this at the cost of an unwavering dedication to rigourous training. The same can be said for becoming a master of yoga. Take a closer look sometime at what these disciplines are capable of accomplishing. They're nothing to scoff at. I've seen pictures of 70-year-old men literally bending over backwards.

This whole MMA vs. boxing debate is a bit off for me anyway. We are talking about sport, right? Most sports consider contact, fighting, or other forms of aggression as justification for penalization if not disqualification or suspension, if not banning. What does that say about fighting as sport? To me, it says that there is little difference, in the grand scheme of things, between boxing and MMA when considering the viability of either activity as being a "sport."

Proof? Or is this jujst more of that I'll throw shit at the wall and see what sticks?

Agility? They fuckin stand there and throw punches, what's agile about that?


Still clueless about the rules eh? You don't kick a downed opponent, but then again if you actually weren't so ignorant and uninformed on the topic yo'd know that.
I have a friend who is a black belt as well his sister is a black belt, he got his at 15, her at 17 I believe, I'd love to see you tell her that is wasn't a great achievement, as I watch her kick your head off your shoulders.

You sure you're not BJ Penn? He whines the same way youy do about this. Before each fight? It was during ONE fight he ws accused of this, but please SF don't let facts get in the way of your delusional arguments.
Not like boxers don't fight pieces of drift to get to 30-0 now do they SF, but they're brave and manly for doing this.

You've got some fucked up vision of what manliness is, it would be funny as shit, well it is funny as shit, but also sad that you're this delusional about what it means to be a man.

Oh yeah, the offer still stands, get your lump intoa gym for 2 months then find an MMA fighter to twist you about until you cry like a little girl. You said it could happen SF, unless it was all bullshit like your posts in the last 2 threads. I doubt you'll do it, you worry about Lesnars heart, I reckon you'd stroke out on the way to the gym.

---------- Post added at 09:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:39 AM ----------

Well then what fuckin skill does boxing require? As I said before, punch, duck, repeat, like shampoo instructions. Also if it requires so little skill it should be nothing then for you to hit the gym and be a champ in 2 months like you said, but I suspect you're talking out your ass, as most people do who've never done anything.

---------- Post added at 09:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:41 AM ----------

I'll take some of that acid please? Based on posts in this threads it must be fucking phenomenal.

Best idea for this thread ever..........aside from my HOF suggestion:)....come on you know you want to, this shit is fucking hilarious.

---------- Post added at 09:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:47 AM ----------

Yep my thoughts as well, it's the same dead horse he's been beating for 2 years now with the same regurgitated arguments in every post, at first it was funny, now it's getting quite sad........but still fucking hilarious.

But that fanbase is shrinking and going to the UFC. The UFC had seven out of the top ten PPV Buyrates in 2008, boxing had two (wrestling had one).
1. Boxing: Oscar De La Hoya vs. Manny Pacquiao, Dec. 6, 1,250,000
2. UFC: Brock Lesnar vs. Randy Couture, Nov. 15, 1,010,000
3. Wrestling: WrestleMania, Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Paul "Big Show" Wight, March 30, 670,000
4. UFC: Georges St. Pierre vs. Jon Fitch/Lesnar vs. Heath Herring, Aug. 9, 625,000
5. UFC: Lesnar vs. Frank Mir, Feb. 2, 600,000
6. UFC: Quinton Jackson vs. Forrest Griffin, July 5, 540,000
7. UFC: St. Pierre vs. Matt Serra, April 19, 530,000
8. Boxing: Felix Trinidad vs. Roy Jones Jr., Jan. 19, 500,000
9. UFC: Chuck Liddell vs. Rashad Evans, Sept. 6, 480,000
10. UFC: B.J. Penn vs. Sean Sherk/Tito Ortiz vs. Lyoto Machida, May 24, 475,000
It's true that boxing had the biggest with the De La Hoya/Pacquiao event but the UFC wasn't far behind with the Lesnar/Couture event. Don't be surprised if the UFC tops the 2009 list with UFC 100 as early estimates put it at around 1.5 million buys.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, this is probably why this topic has come back up. SF sees the writing on the wall with the PPV buys and mainstream attention that UFC 100 got and this may be the last kick at the can for the old boxing fan to claim that boxing has more fans.

Clearly boxing has never involved spectacle. It's not like Tyson bit someone's ear or anything. Boxing is just as guilty of selling spectacle as the UFC.

If you think there is little skill you are so blinded by your love of boxing that it's rediculous. As far as your 15 year old girl comment, the only ones who are getting black belts are the ones who have committed themselves for years to mastering their martial art. The girls getting blackbelts aren't the one's doing it for fun at the local McDojo.

But while we are on the topic of achievements. Exactly what achievement do most boxers have? Other than paying for training and someone spotting potential?

Again you are wrong.
The UFC is governed by the ruling body of the state or province it holds it's events in. In the case above GSP wasn't "covered in baby oil and grease before each fight". There was a small amount of vaseline transfered from his face (for cuts) to his shoulders between rounds. It was spotted and wiped off. The Nevada State Athletic Commission reviewed the case and ruled it was accidental. This has happened with different fighters but never in as high profile a fight as Penn/St. Pierre 2. While unfortunate it has caused a rules change in that now only the state body's officials, who are not affiliated with either camp, may apply vaseline to cuts between rounds.
The only person who still believes in the "GSP Greases" theory is BJ Penn who is well known for making any excuse he can when he loses as to why that loss shouldn't count.
As far as feeding GSP cans to pad his record. That's just stupid.
Lets look at St. Pierre's UFC fighs shall we?
1st UFC Fight - Karo Parisian - Parisian was highly touted but never quite lived up to the hype.
2nd UFC Fight - Jay Hieron - Went on to have a decent career in the IFL.
3rd UFC Fight - Matt Hughes - Widely considered to be the best Welterweight (WW) of all time. (loss for St. Pierre)
4th UFC Fight - Jason Miller - Was a highly touted prospect that never really panned out.
5th UFC Fight - Frank Trigg - Constant WW contender who just couldn't win "the big one"
6th UFC Fight - Sean Sherk - More competitive at Lightweight. Not exactly a can though.

Up until this point GSP had been fighting up-and-comers or also rans (save Hughes) for the most part because lets face it GSP was an up-and-comer.

7th UFC Fight - BJ Penn - Former WW champion. Number One contenders match
8th UFC Fight - Matt Hughes - See above. GSP wins title.
9th UFC Fight - Matt Serra - Widely considered to be the biggest upset in UFC history (loss for GSP)
10th UFC Fight - Josh Koscheck - Constant top ten WW.
11th UFC Fight - Matt Hughes - See above. Rubber match win for GSP.
12th UFC Fight - Matt Serra - WW Champion
13th UFC Fight - Jon Fitch - Ranked (at the time) as the #2 WW in the world (now #3)
14th UFC Fight - BJ Penn - Lightweight champion. Former WW champion. BJ asked for the fight since their first fight was a very close win for GSP.
15th UFC Fight - Thiago Alves - Ranked as the #2 WW in the world.
I'm not exactly seeing any cans on this list. In fact of the 15 fights GSP has had in the UFC 10 of them have either been championship fights, fights against former champions or fights against future champions.
Yeah he faced a few cans in TKO (a minor org in Quebec) early in his carreer but since joining the UFC he has constantly faced up-an-comers (when he was one) and recently number one contenders.

As silent_jay stated, MMA isn't like boxing where they feed you 30 or so cans so you can get a good record. You get maybe a couple of cans in your first fight or two and thats it. From then on it is expected that you will face at minimum competition at your level (be that another up and comer or an established contender).

I'm still curious who said GSP was a 'hero of MMA'? Seems the only one saying that is SF. The people of Canada certainly love the man as he's a great athlete and Canadian to boot, but nope haven't read anyone here call him a 'hero of MMA'?

Seems there may be a wee bit of a reading comprehension problem, or a problem seeing the words as they're typed, all I see being called "The Emperor of Masculinity" are boxers, and I still say that sounds like the title of someone who loves the cock:lol:

---------- Post added at 01:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 PM ----------

I got to take guccilvr's advice and just ignore this thread, even though it is good for a chuckle, unless something even more dumb gets posted I'll be lurking this bad boy for the chuckles.

Look at it this way.

Boxing is far more barbaric than MMA. In boxing the goal is to cause such severe head trauma to your opponent that he can not continue before a ten count.
Where in MMA as soon as your opponent can no longer intellegently defend himself or submits either by tapout or verbal submission the match is finished causing far less head trauma than boxing.

Pankration, the predecessor of modern MMA, was at the Olympic games in 648 BC. I don't post this to argue the points of this thread, because I see that is pointless because something can't be discussed between two people if only one person is listening. I post because I figure someone will find that interesting to learn more about, and appreciate it.

MMA: It's like boxing, with twice as many contact points.

Anything televised is a sport and not a martial art. Any school that gives black belts to children is not teaching a martial art. They may be very talented athletes, I'm not putting down their achievements, but they are not martial artists.

Martial artists do not have rules. There is no cowardice or bravery in a martial art; only the dedicated study and pursuit on how to efficiently kill man.

So MMA, the Original Olympic contact sport. Kinda :D

Lyoto Machida began training at 3, and recieved his black belt at 13 in Karate. Not a martial artist?

...and what discipline are you studying, grasshopper?

:orly:

Doubt it, but it goes without saying that there is an exception to every rule.

Who ever said I was a martial artist?
I know my definition came off more elitist than I wanted it to be, but I couldn't think of a better way to say it.

uhhh Machida is one very.. BADASS dude.

I don't see how age plays a role in whether or not someone is a martial artist. Just because someone received a black belt by the age of 13 or 15, doesn't mean they just stop training at that point or can't kick a head off a shoulder. Often times, they continue to train that discipline and move to others as well.. hence the name Mixed Martial Arts.

Zeraph: Holy misconceptions. Seems to be a theme tonight.

...

"Martial arts" like Kenpo karate, for example, are specific highly-refined tools that one human uses on another human to engage in combat. It's a system, not a person. It's like a language, not the tongue that speaks it.

Saying a fighting style defines a person is like saying I'm a Republican because I own guns.

At what age can someone master their art and become a "martial artist"?

Fedor Emelianeko became a Master of Sports in Sambo and Judo at 21, is he a martial artist?

Anderson Silva recieved his black belt in Tae kwan do at 18 after only four years. Martial Artist?

Royce Gracie recieved his black belt in BJJ at 18. Martial artist?

What age does someone have to be what age does someone have to be before they can get their black belt (or equivelent)?

ADDED
Actually many martial arts have rules for their competitions. Sambo has like five different rules sets depending on the competition.

To be fair, that list is full of prodigies, not to mention two sons of fighting system founders, who were literally training since they could walk.

The reason I doubt any children can be a martial artist is because its about 90% mental. They can become good athletes but they don't understand the life taking and philosophy behind it. Or I sure hope they don't, that'd be fucked up. Not to mention, I don't care how well a 13 year old masters the techniques, he doesn't have the muscle development to represent a black belt. Or again, if he did, that'd be bordering on child abuse. But its like asking when are you ready for marriage? No one can say one age (besides citing the law) just like no one can say what age one can become worldly enough to be a martial artist. I don't know his teacher, nor was I there, hence why I refrain from judging one way or the other, but I still doubt it.

Also, just because they teach karate or whatever doesn't mean its a martial art. Just because they call it so makes them wrong, not me. There are far more McDojos than there are real ones. Of course that doesn't mean one can't learn on your own either. And that's only speaking for traditional MA. Modern MA can include people in the army or navy for instance.

Also, even if a real MAist fights in the UFC or whatever, that doesn't make it any less of a sport. When he is in that ring and following those rules he is not practicing martial arts, but a spin off sport's version of it.

How did you develop such a weird sense of kill drama, Zeraph?

The fact that young kids can get black belts - not just the likes of Graycie, but teenage kids all over the shop - really shows how easy it is. You turn up, learn a few Japanese words, practise a few kicks, and they call you a black belt.

Then the first time you get into a real fight, puffed up with unfounded confidence, you find you get sparked.

Not all martial arts schools are like that. It's easy to say they're all black belt factories, but where do quality fighters come from?

Something tells me they're not hatched. Turns out they come from good martial arts schools that focus on real world slam-bang.

The school I attend takes training very seriously. Belts are a part of the artsy tradition, not a way to rank ability.

Well atleast this is half true unlike most of your posts here.
Sounds like you are talking about what's known as a Mcdojo.

McDojo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When we say black belt, it is a black belt from a reputable dojo, master or school.
While I can't say for sure that no Mixed Martial Artist has ever set foot in a McDojo because lets face it some of them may have gone as children, I will say this. If any current Mixed Martial Artist recieved his black belt from a McDojo he'd be laughed out of the sport.

It's the difference between going down to the local YMCA and getting someone to show you how to throw a jab and hit a bag, and finding a real trainer who will show you how to box.

In other words not all black belts are created equal. When we state fighter X has a black belt in Y, it's not a black belt from the local "master" that was handed out alongside 40 others to the rest of the class because their cheque cleared.
A black belt from these places would be like me going taking a few boxing classes for a year or so, then having them hand me a belt that declares me to be world champion. Sure I've got the belt that says it but does it make it true? Of course not.

I'd love to see you earn a black belt in Machida Karate. Oh wait, you never could.

boxing must be pretty damn easy too considering all the fake knockouts it's had over it's history. corruption really lends a helping hand to a sports cause now doesn't it? :rolleyes:

You really are clueless about this topic aren't you? Go earn a black belt SF, but like YaWhateva said, you can't. So you'd rather sit in front of your computer and let ignorance reign supreme.

You're speaking of a McDojo as m0rpheus said, but don't let the fact that not all dojo's are like that get in the way of your delusional view of kids as black belts.

As I said before, I have a friend and his sister who both earned their black belts as teens and I don't doubt either one could kick your head off your shoulders no problem.

It's like debating with a child, pick a point, have said point beaten, so he grasps another straw and hopes it works. Like I said before, it's the throwing shit at a wall debating style, he's juts hoping some shit sticks, other than to his posts.
I bet they do better than the guy who lets the person he's fighting against get back up after he puts him down.



---------- Post added at 08:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:01 AM ----------

Come on guccilvr you know SF doesn't pay attention to facts about boxing, he picks and chooses. Hell this is supposed to be about MMA as a sport, now that he's got his ass handed to him numerous times on that one it's now about kids as black belts I guess....throw shit at the wall SF, maybe it'll stick.

Okay, back on track?

The UNESCO Committee defines a sport as follows:

Any physical activity which has the character of play and which involves a struggle with oneself or with others, or a confrontation with natural elements. If this activity involves competition, it must then always be performed in a spirit of sportsmanship. There can be no true sports without the idea of fair play.

Is MMA a sport?
Is boxing?

Based on that definition then yes it is a sport.

Although I already know SF's next argument. 'There's no sportmanship in MMA because of striking a downed opponent.' Wait for it, you'll see.

PS: Thanks for getting this back on track Baraka, the whole kids as black belts thing was so far off track I was lost as to what this thread was supposed to be about.

But surely he knows it's not a free-for-all when the opponent is down. (Sorry, I didn't follow the previous debate very closely.)

He honestly seems to think it is, hell he even mentioned kicking an opponent while he was down. Yes PRIDE did allow this and they also allowed knees to the head of a downed opponent, but that was also in Japan and when PRIDE had their American shows these rules were changed to follow the rules of the particular state they were in so the fights can be sanctioned.

Honestly in my opinion SF doesn't know enough about the rules or about the sport in general, he didn't even know how many rounds were in a title fight, he was talking about Lesnar tiring out in the 8th round, so to me that shows an ignorance and a lack of knowledge about a sport, and means someone needs to read a bit more and shoot their mouth off a bit less to get some knowledge about it.

It'd be like me arguing brain surgery with a brain surgeon something I am completely ignorant and clueless about.

It's just a pointless argument. Anyone can rip apart any sport and say it's not fit to be a sport. Clearly this is the point of this entire OP, as the starter cannot fathom how mixed martial arts in any form is noble. I mean.. the fact that the arts involved teach you to take an opponent down and make the aggressor submit while on the ground has nothing to do with it. Obviously, the people who study the art forms and become good at them, are clearly just thugs and have no nobility in them... we can ignore the fact that 99% of the time these same people get up, shake hands and commend the other person for a well rounded fight. We can also ignore the safety issues.. there are very few major injuries in MMA. Oh wait, there's few injuries of a deadly nature because MMA is just EASY and anyone can do it. :rolleyes:

Couldn't agree more

I see SF using this next with Lesnar's name in it for the way he acted like an asshat after beating Mir, little does he know that happening is such a minority it useless as an argument at all, but we'll see.

someone posted that in the other thread I think Daniel_

still funny though :p

What do you mean?

I go by my ~10 years of academic, philosophical, and physical experience, and by definitions but mostly what I've been taught by real practitioners of the art.

Since when does martial not mean warlike? When did it become "family sport and fun exercise"? Just because mainstream American pop culture has turned it mostly into a business jazzercise class that kids go to after school does not make it so for the thousands of years the real thing has existed. Or for the real artists quietly living it.

Zeraph, you're killing me here. See? Look at me... look at me dying. My god... I can barely take it.

...

You talk about martial arts like there is an occupation where sinewy furrowed-brow men sit in gray stone pagodas and train to kill other men with their bare hands, taking breaks only to sleep for 3 hours a night, eating only the hearts of timber wolves and grizzly bears. Aside from the infamous "red roof inn" at Fort Bragg, no such place exists. I think your martial arts education has come from Hollywood, chief.

...

10 years of what experience? If you were any more vague, I'd be tempted to suggest Mortal Kombat.

I've trained in American Freestyle Karate for over a year and a half straight... going up to 20 hours per work week (2-4 hours a day)... and that shit isn't Jazzercise. People ended up in the hospital when mistakes were made. I've had duct tape holding my busted toes together, smashed noses, a broken finger, blood on my t-shirt. I've choked people out, knocked people out with punches, kicked people in the head, and I got dropped like a sack of potatoes by a tough old man with a leg like a train car and one of my best friends hookkicked me in the back of the head and I almost did a cartoon faceplant. It's a glorious experience... and after everybody is soaked with sweat and bandaged up... we all limp out to the bar like some rowdy Vikings and drink our fill. There is no "trained killer" mindset here. We're human beings engaging in martial arts... hence martial artists.

There are amazing schools out there with dedicated instructors that will teach you how to fight, how to strengthen your body, and the kind of friendship that only develops after kicking someone in the ribs. Many of them offer free lessons to see how you feel about it... and you can watch for free.

Scientifially the strongest way to strike from a human body is a punch.

Most people who learn flying ninja kickstyle martial arts just want to look flashy.

They have a class at the same sports centre I play badminton in, and sometimes I watch them spar from the balcony while Im waiting for my game - Ive never once seen one person in the class who looks like they can fight some of them have black belts. For a couple of quid I'd go downstairs an whip any of of them and then run a mile afterwards.

I can kick a lot harder than I can punch... and I assure you a X-degree blackbelt would tell you the same. It's all about muscles.

How many "X Factor Blackbelts" have proved themself in a real test - rather than just intimidating nervous students of their "Dojo" with bullshit stories about one inch punches, etc.

So why don't people punch doors in instead of kicking them in?

Funny story:

Some tough guy biker dudes were walking by the school I attend a few years ago. They decided that the pussies in the baggy blue pajamas needed to be bullied before they continued onto their girly magazines and sixpacks. They walked into the school and challenged the instructor to a fight. The instructor said that was ludicrous but eventually agreed to it in order to teach them a lesson. Instead of fighting them himself as a 7th degree, he had one of his star students, a short stocky guy named Morris, fight the tough guy... the tough guy challenger was a foot taller and probably 50 pounds heavier than him. They went at it. Morris circled for a few seconds, drilled the guy in the ribs with a sidekick and floored him with a hookkick to the side of the head. Two hits, TKO. Tough guy's friend carried him out. Nobody said anything.

Studying a martial art doesn't mean you can fight, and being able to fight doesn't mean you've studied a martial art.

As an intermediate belt "rank," I've beaten down plenty of black belts... and been schooled by plenty of intermediate belts. The belt means little when you talk about fighting ability, it's just part of the uniform and tradition... just as being a Sergeant in the US Army doesn't mean you're any more or less capable than a Specialist or Staff Sergeant.

Mixed martial arts are even more flaky when it comes to grading people. It suddenly becomes all about the individual training program and strengths/weaknesses related to it... exactly like boxers.

...

Basically, it's all about conditioning, focus and becoming proficient with technique systems.

MMA is a sport because it has fans and people judge it. If ultimate frisbee is a sport, so is MMA.

God I'd love to see this.

Ive had to break down a couple of doors in my life.

Once I punched through the glass (with my hand wrapped in a jumper) and once I shouldered through it.

---------- Post added at 10:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:01 PM ----------


Well proves my point.

The 7th grade black belt karate master didnt have the stomach and tried to back out.

Eventually one of the guys who could fight stood up in his place and floored the other guy.

Sure, it happens that some people who do martial arts can fight but I doubt there is much of a causal link.

Fighting ability is about aggression, phyiscal strength and co-ordination, and a basic technique. The best technique for fighting in most sitations is boxing. Two people equal in every other way but one a boxer and one a jinjitsu black belt... if they get in a fight the jinjitsu guy tries to kick the others guys head off with 360 John Claude Van Damme special, misses by two feet and then gets sparked with a simple straight right.

this thread is getting stupider by the second.

why is karate the only thing being talked about in regards to MMA when there are a ton of different styles?

and SF. seriously, you need to just shut that macho shit up before you find yourself on the ground one day getting your teeth kicked in by a martial artist. just because there are plenty who can't do it right doesn't mean they all can't.. and I'd pay thousands of dollars to watch you say that shit to Machida.

---------- Post added at 05:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:06 PM ----------

jinjitsu..

wow.

umm..

..

..


..


....

I need a drink.

Whats with the personal stuff cromp?

No I don't. I speak the truth and you perceive it wrongly because there are so many fools around.

Why does it matter which school I've trained? All paths lead to one.

FYI I hold one rank or another in danzan ryu jujitsu, taekwondo, karate, tai chi, taijutsu (really an american hybrid school), and an equivalent of kendo. I've been training off and on (because of my health) since I was 8 years old. Of the thousands of hours I've physically trained learning the techniques I've spent an equal amount of time over my life in reading and studying the science and philosophy behind it. I've had my fair share of the sports versions and the McDojos as well. I know the difference between martial prowess and athleticism. I have permanently damaged my big toe and my knee in my stupider days. I've sparred *a lot.*

I am not glorifying death or violence. That is in fact what most of MA schools do now a days. I am the opposite of such. I seek enlightenment. I avoid physical violence and use words whenever possible. I find it quite amusing that you call me Hollywood when you go and tell that biker story glorifying hollywood machoism. Their behavior sounds shameful as they entertained the silly notions of the bikers. They lost their honor as soon as the agreed to the terms of an honorless crowd of hooligans.

Gucci,

Hey, I just brought up karate because that's what I know. I know a few other guys on TFP train in other disciplines. Nobody is talking, though. Probably because they work for a living and aren't on TFP right now.

Zeraph,

I think I'm going to do the "honorable" thing and discontinue this conversation. We shall disagree and that's fine. Unless we find ourselves in the same room and having sparring gear available... and then it might be even better.

Who is "Machida"?

I am not claiming I could bet any person who happens to have studied a martial art... I am saying that most of the "Eastern" martial arts are of limited help in a real fight and wont make anyone any better

Look at UFC... how often do you see people being floored by a flying kick? Nearly every fight ends up someone being tripped or thrown and then beaten while they are defenseless on the floor, or else an arm lock or leg lock after the two fighters tumble to the ground in a clinch.

There are many better examples of martial arts competition aside from the hot new pop culture instance of UFC.

Have you checked out Chuck Norris' "World Combat League" on the TeeVee? Those guys are much less brutish.

Put cme in the love to see this category as well. Most likely the funniest thing I'd see in my 32 years.
People like SF are internet tough guys, or telephone tough guys, they'll act tough as long as no one is there in person, put an actual person in front of them and he'd either cry like a baby, beg to be left alone, or find the nearest woman wearing a skirt and hide behind it.
If your ignorant and narrow minded like someone in this thread, it does, ignorance is bliss.

Seriously? Clueless much? I vote yes. Unless ytou meant this jinjitsu:
Jinjitsu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Fuck dude you must really dig making yourself look foolish, but we still love ya SF, you're just not good at this learning before you post thing.

---------- Post added at 03:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:16 PM ----------

They aren't defenseless just because they're on the mat, if you had a clue you'd know this.

---------- Post added at 03:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:17 PM ----------

It's that train wreck factor, you know it's stupid, but you can't help reading it to see if it could possibly get more stupid, and not surprisingly it always does.

---------- Post added at 03:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:21 PM ----------

Also why would a Jiu-Jitsu (correct term there SF) be trying to kick someones head off their shoulders? Not know too much about Jiu-Jitsu now do we SF? Again with that learning before you post thing.

I may be lots of things, but I dont consider myself to be a physical coward. Just like being an internet tough guy, such accusations are easy to make and dont mean much. I havent talked about my ability to fight any person on this board - just a bunch of clueless martial arts who train at my local sport centre.

I am now only going to talk about known facts or things that we have enough evidence to judge as fact.

The fact that Brock Lesner is the champion of UFC means it is not a serious sport.

Now, UFC want this guy, because a lot of their fanbase are WWF/WWE fans - someone posted PPV fights showing that Lesner promotions were the only ones that UFC could sell.

They wanted this guy in as champ. They know he cant stay there because someone with credibility will have to fight him and make a fool of him sooner or later, but they ant to milk it as much as they can.

After being beaten by a fringe contender they gave the title to a 46 year old light heavy so that Lesner could beat him and take it.

Lesner stomps about, making the same silly promo's he did in WWE

Lesner is, in my opinion, someone who has built his bulk up by juicing (he may be clean now, but the best explanation of the gap between his supposedly great college career and playing pro sport was to get the steroids out of his system in my opinion)

Quite frankly, after winning 3 fights, the fact that a WWF world champion is now the champion of MMA really says everything.

I think some of the zealous fans would still not suspect a thing is Fedor "pulls out" and The Undertaker takes on Lesner for the title and buries him.

Yes - there is corruption in boxing, yes there are fair fights in MMA - but seriosly, come on, the Champion of UFC (and the Heavyweight Champion IS the greatest champion in any combat sport) is an actor! Who was handed the title after beaten (1) a nobody (2) a fringe contender who had already beaten him (3) a middle aged man who's natural weight is 178 lbs.

How can you take this seriously?

There you go with the heavyweight champ being the top guy in the sport thing again, surely you know this isn't true. I'm gonna repost my comment from the MMA Predictions thread, because it was quite rightly pointed out that I should bring it over here.

The heavyweight champion isnt always the best lbs for lbs fighter - sure.

But come on, we all know the Heavyweight champion is "the champ", the pinnacle of the sport, the king of manliness.

People you perceive as clueless but who most likely could kick your ass, no matter what you think of them.

If these are like your other 'facts' this should be good for a chuckle.
He's not the champion of UFC, he's the heavyweight champion, and a dam naccomplished NCAA wrestler, but you ignore that FACT.
Proof that 'a lot of' their fanbase are WWE fans? (if it's a fact you can back it up right?)

Proof? Or just more of your throw shit at a wall style of debating?
You seriously are this clueless aren't you?

Wow he was pissed after one fight and you seem to think he makes these 'promos' that no one else see but you.

Playing what pro sport? THE GUY WAS NEVER A FOOTBALL PLAYER IN COLLEGE OR UNI, is it seriously that hard for you to get? Shall I draw you a picture? May be easier for you to wrap your head around pictures rather than words.

What fuckin champion of MMA? There is no one champion, seriously learn something so you can stop looking so bloody foolish. that's like saying there's one champion in boxing, and yeah Tyson being a champ was great for boxing.

Now this is just fuckin stupid

There is no Champion of UFC, fuck me it's like dealing with as child
Opinion not fact.
Fixed that last one for you, and no I don't think anyone here takes you seriously, you've effectively turned yourself into a joke with this debate...good show.

Also for all these facts you were supposed to talk about, not one was a fact, most were bullshit.

---------- Post added at 03:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:45 PM ----------

There's that delusion view of manliness again, and that's your OPINION not a fact SF, and opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you there. What the Klitchko's are the kings of manliness because they happen to be 6'8 tall? Manny Paquiao could never fight in the heavyweight division, no matter how much he bulked up, because he's too short - does that make him less manly? Does that make him worse at his sport?

I think most fans would agree with me - guys like Paquiao, Mayweather and De La Hoya are bigger draws than the Klitschkos could ever hope to be, and why? - because they're better, ie they're the top guys in their sport (or have been, at various times).

Pacman and PBF may well be better fighters, but they are not the heavyweight king.

The Heavyweight champion is the champion of every sport.

Pacman can never be the king, because of his height and build. He's a great boxer and a great guy... but the heavyweight title is something special. I think most people feel this in their heart.

Ok, well you enjoy watching two lumps smack seven bells out of each other, and I'll continue to watch the talented guys go at it. And that goes for MMA as well as boxing.

I'm not sure what to make of this - you've just pretty much admitted the top heavyweights in boxing are not the best at the sport, yet one of your main issues with MMA is that (one of) the heavyweight champ(s) is....... not the best at the sport?

I was unaware that heavyweight meant best champion of any sport.. who are the heavy weight footballers?

Football is a team sport.

All combat sports are ultimately tests of manliness. The biggest man, the strong man, at the end of the day is the Emporer of Masculinity.

Quite literally the Heavyweight Champion of the World is in some senses the greatest man in the world.

MMA wants to compare itself to boxing - and their king is a WWF actor, a suspected steroid abuser, and a man who has won 3 fight in UFC.

If the guy didnt have a background in WWF, do you think he'd be fighting for the greatest crown in the sport after 3 fights (and 1 of those being an easy defeat to a fringe contender)

The fact that Norwich were once in the top flight of English football proves football is not a serious sport.

I mean, look how crap they are.

:shakehead:

If this was really true we'd all spend our free time watching Powerlifting and World's Strongest Man. You know for a fact we watch it to see a good contest, and that means skill and athleticism, not sheer size.

Sounds like a name of someone who loves cock to me

you have such a fucked up sense of being a man it's funny.
He's won 4 fights, do we have to go through this gaain, fucking read a website to learn something. When did any MMA organization say such a thing? Proof he's abused steroids? Ever see pics of him at college? He was huge then, but I don't expect you to so that, you'd actually learn something about the sport. More throwing shit SF, maybe it'll stick.

Yep he would have, just because you pick one aspect of a persons past and stick with that and forget a 106-5 record as an NCAA wrestler isn't our fault.

---------- Post added at 04:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:22 PM ----------

This is seriously like debating with a ranting child who just goes lalalalalallalalalalalallaa and thinks they're presenting facts when all their doing is looking foolish and ignorant, if that's what you were hoping to accomplish SF, bravo, you've done it.

So shouldering is more powerful than punching?


I'm guessing there are quite a few female athletes out there who'd disagree with you. Maybe I'm wrong.

I thought combat sports were supposed to be tests of strategy, reaction time, strength, quickness, endurance, reading your opponent, etc....

What are we talking about again?

I reckon we just use Gucci's suggestion and let this thread die the death it deserves, nothings going to be accomplished. In order for things to be accomplished someone in this thread has to be willing to listen and learn some things rather than shooting their mouths off.
Which makes you an internet tough guy, as everyone in this thread knows you don't have the sack to go and do as you say, but you'll talk a big game online which is the exact definition of an internet tough guy.

---------- Post added at 04:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:30 PM ----------

How being called the emperor of manliness sounds like the name of someone who loves the cock, not of the greatest fighter.

---------- Post added at 04:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:31 PM ----------

Gina Carano being one of them I bet.
Gina Carano - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
But in SFs eyes he could probably whip her and then run 2 miles.

Don't tell anyone, but I have the huge crush on her. :love:

I'm quite happy to tell anyone who'll listen that I do, nothing wrong with her (other than the fact she could kick my ass!) :)

ok.. so here's what I propose.. instead of pretending that all UFC fights are ended because someone missed a kick and slipped and was caught with a stiff right, how about going down to your local MMA gym and stepping in with the jiu-jitsu boys for 5 minutes. They aren't big on striking.. but they'll let you strike them.. see if punching is the ultimate pain after you're put into a Kimura so deep you want to die.. or even better when you let them get you off the ground they simply sidestep your attempt at a punch and you end up getting rear naked choked.. or.. if you don't like the sound of that, then step into the cage or ring with a striker. Let's see how long your boxing only skills keep you alive. I'm sure your face would love it when they clinch you and your nose is pounded with knees.

so really it comes down to this.. put up or shut up. There are pussies in any sport and people who think that boxing is going to make them better in a fight and they'll get their asses handed to them.. same with someone who thinks Jiu-Jitsu will help them in a street fight..it could happen.. but we aren't talking about street fighting..we are talking about SPORT COMPETITION. In the competition of MMA, the most well rounded fighter usually ends up on top..

but whatever.. keep spouting your mouth.. I'm sure your heavy talk will save you..

MMA is most certainly a sport. Boxing is most certainly a sport, but MMA utilizes boxing as one minor facet of it's game.. so really what are you arguing here? If Couture wins the heavyweight belt again..are you going to change your mind? Of course not, because boxing is just SOOOOOOO noble. So noble in fact, that some boxers will even bite your ear off if they get desperate. :rolleyes:

and yes, Gina is one badass chick. She could pound most men into the ground.

I think all MMA fans love to look at Gina.

Gucci, we all know that isn't going to happen, SF is happy being the internet tough guy and calling these MMA fighters and black belts pussies from the comfort of his living room while eating fish and chips.
I fought a boxer years ago in a hockey fight, everyone kept telling me not to because 'he's a boxer' so I dropped the gloves, and guess what happened, the boxer dropped like a lump. Could I have done that without skates on? Most likely not, I don't fight without skates on, not a fan of fighting unless it was for hockey and I was getting paid to do it.

---------- Post added at 05:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:59 PM ----------

You may be right, you may be wrong, watch the video and find out, I can't remember the results:
Fight Science | Free Sports Videos - Watch Sports Videos Online | Veoh

I might have seen this episode in the past or I might not have, but I have to wager that all the muscle, weight, and acceleration able to be generated by the human leg, along with its range, gives itself credence to be the most powerful and effective way to inflict the most damage to an opponent.

A punch may be easy, effective, and more accurate than a kick, but take a trained martial artist who is evenly toned and fit, test both the force exertion sample of his kick and his punch, and I think the kick wins every time.

Just ask anybody who was ever on the receiving end of Bill Wallace.

That was my thinking as well Jetée, I know I watched the show but can't remember the results, but to me a kick would be the stronger way to strike. Maybe if SF backed up his 'science' we'd know for sure. I guess saying that it's 'scientifically' means we're automatically supposed to fall for it. If the punch is stronger it's because of the smaller impact point, so in that case kick using the heel of your foot.

There's a good discussion about it here, but I haven't had time to glance through it all Hell's Kitchen is on and I'm occupied by the ex Marine who want to go outside with Ramsey.
Punch and Kick Force? - MartialTalk.Com
Yes it's another forum, but it isn't like I'm whoring it or anything but if the mods don't think it should be here, feel free to delete.

I initially meant to point this detail out, and I briefly did unto myself in my post, but I left it out, post-scrap.

Sure the fist is a smaller, and therefore, more of a concentrated, oncoming force, than say, the whole a lower leg (shin, fibula, tibia area) to the body, but it really merits lengthy testing upon multiple subjects to determine which hurts the most; either a more condensed impact, or a more wider, dampening blow.

It really depends on your conditioning, and involuntary body reaction as to whether you feel more weakened by a single square fist, or an entire log of a leg. I don't know either way, but I'd take my chances oft more times with a punch, even a flurry of them, than endure a single strike that contains evident knockout power, something that is at least 20% of your own weight that is being thrust upon your person maliciously.

Yeesh, what's with all the personal attacks on SF, silent? His opinions may be out there but some of your stuff is unwarranted.

I can safely say a (proper) kick will generate more pounds per sq inch than a punch. But its moot, distancing, timing, the strike area, and the defense of your opponent determines the strike to use.

Considering no moderator has said anything to me (and we've had a couple post in this thread), and I haven't made any personal attacks against SF at all, might I suggest you let the mods do their job, unless you're one of those new fancy mods with no moderator title.

Trust me, if I crossed the line the mods would be giving me shit for it.

Eh, never said you crossed a line. I just think youre taking this a little more personally than is healthy. Take a breath.

/mod spy

SF-nice job in taking these opinions in stride, even if I don't agree with your opinions :)

When you say I'm making "all these personal attacks against SF", you're saying I crossed a line, or broken the rules. Like I said let the mods do their job, that's what their here for, if you want to discuss MMA as a sport this is the thread for it. If you want to discuss my posting style or what I post send me a PM.

Now can we stay on topic please?

Mhmmmk.

Is it just me or do all Canadian fighters really suck? Seewotididther?:thumbsup::paranoid:

actually I'll just be the bigger man and report the troll.

All of you knock it off. This thread is about fighting, and I won't have any fighting in it ;)

Go back to the MMA discussion, preferably without bitchy little snipes at people like "internet tough guy," "loves cock," or "canadian fighters suck" or I'll close the thread.

Actually it's a knee from a Muay Thai clinch. The simplest way to throw a strong strike is a punch.

EDIT: Here's the video I was looking for. First up punches.


Yup boxing wins this one but not by much and it comes no where near most of the kicks (plus here's why you don't see flying kicks in real life often)