yeah.. from experience I can promise a Muay Thai clinch resulting in a knee is just a teeeensiee bit painful ;)

and man.. do I love kneeing people in their fucking face.

I'm a big fan of the clinch, knee to the ribs followed by a hook to the head. The order creates the opening.

...

Testicular Revelation: MMA is totally a sport. You hafta wear a cup to cover for those low front kicks.

I learned right-quick that a inexperienced, jumpy fighters don't intentional aim for the balls... but that's where their foot goes.

I got a guy with a knee in a hockey fight once, get enough of a crowd around trying to break up the fight and you can clinch the guys head down nice and low then wham right in the fuckin nose with a little raise of the leg, never got caught either....fuck I was a dirty bastard.

Ah yes the One Inch Punch, pure bullshit.

but then again he's probably not a real martial artist because he was also an actor right?

Current UFC Light Heavyweight Champion Lyoto Machida.
Little highlight reel from his most recent fights.


Flying kick? Rarely. Headkick well Mirko Filopec made a career out of his highlight reel headkicks.

The Gonzaga head kick to Cro-Cop was nice as well, very surprising too considering as you said Cro-Cop made a career out of his highlight reel headkicks. BUt yeah you don't really see flying kicks a la Karate Kid or anything.

The Machida-Shogun fight in October should be a good one, too bad we have to wait so long for it though.

---------- Post added at 10:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:20 PM ----------

Ever see the Mythbusters episode with the ninja and the one inch punch?
MythBusters Episode 109: Return of the Ninja

I dont know, his win over Liddell was pretty sweet but I have to say that if the fight goes past the first round he will be completely gassed like in the Mark Coleman fight. I have Machida dominating him.

First off.
Randy Couture.
25 Pro Fights. Of those only seven were at light heavyweight. He won the UFC 13 HW tourney. 3 time HW champ. He is a smaller HW so he can cut down to LHW but heavy is his natural weight class.

Second. Randy Couture's last HW title win was on March 3, 2007. Brock's first MMA fight (not in even his first UFC fight) was June 2, 2007. His first UFC fight wasn't until after Randy had already defended his belt once. Clearly Dana only gave him the belt so Brock could take it though.

Or the best explaination for it is that Vince McMahon was willing to pay him millions of dollars while the UFC at the time couldn't offer him anywhere near that. As far as his "supposedly" great college career
- NJCAA All-American twice
- 1998 NJCAA Heavyweight Champion
- NCAA All-American twice
- Big Ten Conference Champion twice
- 2000 NCAA heavyweight champion
- 106–5 over his four years in college
There's nothing "supposedly" good about it.

If he wasn't a former WWE champion, but anyone else with the college credentials listed above would he still be a joke?

Don't forget about how bad Hulk Hogan beat Rocky in Rocky III! Wrestlers > MMA fighters AND Boxers!

Actually it was
1) Min-Soo Kim - a nobody
2) Heath Herring - a perennial gate keeper
3) Randy Couture - a three time HW Champ who's natural weight is 220lbs not 178
4) Mir - a former HW Champion who had just KO'ed one of the top Heavyweights (Nogueira was considered the #2 HW behind only Fedor) who had never lost a fight by anything but decision and was considered one of the top heavyweights ever

Whoever this Gina woman is, I think I speak for 99% of the population to say that it is absolutely disgusting for a woman to be forced to take part in MMA.

As most people know I am in no way sexist, and in fact most people would describe as a feminist, but there is no place for women in legalised street brawling. What a revolting spectacle this must make. Similar - no doubt - to the "cat fights" WWF used to organise between Stacey Keibler and Trish Status.

WOMEN ARE SACRED... except when we fuck them. Uh, I've fought women before, StrangeFamous. Turns out they don't fuck around. I had issues with it the first few times, but after getting banged up by a giggly redhead with a mean left hook, I've decided that they're just as capable as men when it comes to delivering techniques. They don't have the raw strength, but they often make up for it by being more aggressive, engaging with finesse. I fought this BJJ black belt for a long while and the only thing that kept me from getting choked out was the fact that I could stand up with her on me.

Heath Herring is being described as a "gate keeper" - he is a bum who has lost about 20 fights. He is a perrenial opponent because he cant fight, but is relatively durable. He has fought a few top fighters and been beaten by them all

Randall Coutre - yes, a blown up Light Heavy. James Toney fights at heavy now, does that make him a legitimate heavyweight (and remember he won the title only to get stripped for juicing). And what excuse to you have with regards to the man being almost 50?

Frank Mir - Most accurate assessments put the guy in the top 20, not the top 3. Ive seen the fight, and he doesnt have the physique or the courage of a fighter.

Like I said - supposedly Lesner won a few fights in college. Big deal. This means nothing in pro sport. If he was an good he'd have turned pro at 18. But he went to college to fighter other people who arent good enough to turn pro just like he wasnt good enough. He "only" lost 5 times to second tier youth opponents... doesnt impress me in the slightest.

First off, you would probably be right about the 99% of the population thing except that mo one is forcing Gina Carano (or her opponent Cris Santos)

Second, if you really were a "feminist" then why can't a woman do whatever a man can?

Third, try this but I'll warn you now it's no "cat fight".


He's fought alot of top fighters actually and yes he's lost alot of fights but he's also won alot of fights. He is a gatekeeper. Most of his losses are to current or future champions. Hence gatekeeper.

First off, its RANDY Couture.
Second Heavyweight is his natural weight class. He walks around at about 220 lbs which puts him in the smaller end of heavyweight though so he can cut weight down to lightheavy if he wants. How does this make him "not a legitimate" heavyweight? It's not like he has to bulk up to go to heavy, he just doesn't cut for the weigh in.
As far as being almost 50, he was 45 when during the fight with Brock. The same age George Foreman was when he won his last HW belt. Randy is in amazing shape for a 45 year old and his body has held up increadibly well.

Mir was on most top ten lists for HW, before the Nogueira fight (usually listed behind Fedor, Nogueira, Arlovski, and Couture). However when you KO the guy who's ranked #2 it'll usually jump you up the list. Going into the fight with Brock most places were ranking Mir as #3-#5 in the world for HW.
Out of curiousity since you know next to nothing about Mir how do you know he doesn't have the physique or courage of a fighter.

No what you said was "supposed fights" neither of which is true. Lesnar won ALOT of wrestling matches. The NCAA isn't a "second tier" league. It's the biggest amateur wrestling league in America. Really the only place to go after that is the olympics. There was no "going pro" for wrestling (the WWE doesn't count) and even still the closest thing to "going pro" with wrestling would be MMA.

You do have the internet to look up records right? You should use it to look up how many fights he's lost before shooting your mouth off.
Not a blown up light heavy at all, as m0rpheus said his natural weight is 220 which is well above the light heavy, so because the BOXER was juicing the MMA guy must be as well? But of course you precious boxers can do no wrong, but don't let facts get in the way of your opinion. Who fuckin cares he's almost 50, big fuckin shit, Gordie Howe Played hockey into his 50's, Chris Chelios is 40 some years old and still going, you look after yourself well enough you can stay physically active at a high level, but you wouldn't know ANYTHING about that. How old was Foreman when he won the title SF? Use facts now not opinion, we can all look it up.
Who's accurate assessment? Yours? Hardly accurate coming from you. I'll take ACTUAL MMA publications as acurate over you any day. "He is currently ranked by MMAWeekly.com and Sherdog.com as the No. 4 Heavyweight fighter in the world." The physique? What the fuck does physique have anything to do with it. As for courage, he's had the sack to get in the cage, all I've seen you do is shoot your yap off from the comfort of your living room.

A few? Supposedly? Fuck dude, we've all shown you his record, there's no supposed about it. He won 106, that's hardly a few, but once again don't let FACTS get in the way SF, you never have before. Turned pro at what at 18? Underwater basket weaving? You're clueless as to the caliber of athletes that wrestle at Division 1 NCAA schools aren't you? Actually it does mean something in pro sport, ever hear of the NHL draft? The NBA draft? MLB Draft? All based on what a person did before they're turning pro whether it's NCAA or not, so yeah it means a fuck of a lot to people who know what they're talking about, and means nothing to people who have no idea what they're on about.

You really should try and learn something before you post, with each post you're looking more and more foolish and really showing that you have no clue what you're on about.

This thread is getting more and more pathetic, it's like debating with someone who refuses to believe facts and seems to think that you can turn pro from an NCAA wrestling career, as m0rpheus said, the next step is the Olympics and why go there when Vince is throwing a busload of cash at you, any smart man would take the money and run.

---------- Post added at 05:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:35 AM ----------

Does anybody else feel like they've just been restating the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again? I don't think SF actually reads our posts, just goes off on tangents and hopes no one calls him on it.

If you were actually a feminist, you'd know that it shouldn't matter whether one is a woman when making the decision to participate in MMA.

It's just how feminists criticize a culture that recognizes women for doing things just because they're female, or mothers, rather than for actually having done things that deserve recognition.

And comparing a woman's decision to participate in MMA to WWF "cat fights" simply because she's a woman who made the decision to become a fighter is opposite thinking of feminism. What can be said of female boxers or hockey players? Is that "cat fighting" and "roller derby on ice"? :rolleyes:

Of course, this thread isn't about feminism, but I have a point: MMA is a sport, and there are women who will want to participate in that. (Imagine that, women in sports!) They shouldn't be coddled or given special "protection" from it.

/feminist

What I want to know is where SF got that she was 'forced' into fighting? It isn't like someone kidnapped her and drugged her to turn her into a fighter, this isn't the fuckin sex trade.

Couldn't agree more Baraka, if SF were as feminist as he seems to think he is he'd know it's her DECISION to participate in MMA, but again facts sometimes get in the way.

Also I've never seen a female MMA fight turn into a 'cat-fight' as he put it, all I've seen are some women fighting I wouldn't fuck with.

---------- Post added at 05:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:30 AM ----------

Would that not be sexist thinking?

Highly unlikely you speak for 99% of the population, you speak for yourself and no one else, but feel free to speculate what percentage you speak for.

This is absolutely pointless - it's the same arguments from SF over and over again, no matter how many times someone counters them. How many times is someone gonna have to say Randy is a natural heavyweight for instance before he'll accept it? For God's sake he won the heavyweight title twice and the UFC 13 heavyweight tournament before he even fought at light heavy (for 7 of his 25 fights as M0rpheus has already pointed out), so yes, that very much makes him a legitimate heavyweight.

Kind of like Lesnar's NCAA career being "supposed fights", and being against "second tier youth opponents". It's hard to debate a topic with someone when one side doesn't listen to FACT or really understand what it is he's debating. Like I said before, it's pick and choose debating and ignore facts for opinions, it really is a pointless thread like Gucci said I believe it was on page 1 of this thread.

It's the throwing shit against the wall style of debating, just hope something at some time sticks to said wall and doesn't slide back down in the hopper.

Thanks Baraka_Guru. It's what I was trying to say but state far better and far more completely.

the point of feminism is not to give the right to women to compete in bikini's in a cage for the sexual titiliation of MMA's college aged male fanbase.

No, the point of feminism is to attack the idea that simply being female dictates whether they should or shouldn't participate in something.

And whether women's MMA is titillating to college men is of no consequence, and the implication that this is the only function, purpose, and value of women's MMA is clearly anti-feminist. It suggests that female MMA only sexually objectifies women instead of allowing them to perform as competitors in a combat sport. This undermines women's legitimacy as athletes based on a kind of sexual fetishization of female endeavours in activities "meant only for men."

What other sports do women participate in purely for the pleasure of men? All of them?

woah.. what MMA channel are you watching SF?? I've totally been missing out on the bikini stuff..

Actually, that's the exact point of feminism (sans the not). Give the women in society the right to choose their own course of life, not catering to the whims of authoritative "father figures", and disallowing the prejudices of higher society's limitations, telling them what they can and cannot achieve in life.

Honestly, though, it's fine if MMA is not your ideal form of entertainment, or even if you find it barbaric; but to continue this flawed contention, and parading around supposed reasons as to why it should not be typified as a sport, such as them spotlighting former professional wrestlers, or having fledgling female combatants, is just not the way to truly argue the point. Cheap shots, hitting a man when he's down, battling within a cage, and constantly comparing it to boxing shows that you are trying to promote something or other, and only wish to disparage the rapid rise of what has nearly become an internationally-recognized and worldwide sport, with its popularity only set to rise even further.


I don't mean to liken this to you SF, but the way this thread has progressed, it hauntingly reminds me of ESPN's tactic of not even recognizing or promoting MMA for the longest time, as if they were shunning its popularity, and just one unexpected Monday, they update their entire format and site to hop in on the bandwagon of MMA as if they were there from the beginning. Now, you, however, haven't progressed as far, but you sure don't want to admit how much striving went into the prodoct that the UFC and other leagues have gone through to make it to this point in the media spectrum. They toiled hard and long to be taken seiously as a sanctioned sport, and it should be no surprise at this marvel, seeing as how this form of contest was popular even centuries past, times of the original Olympics, you know. it wasn't called "MMA", it probably wasn't even called 'wrestling', but it was as such a duel between two strong contestants, little to no holds barred, until there was a deciding victor. If that is not the base definition of sporting, well, I don't know what you think is.

Women do not belong in combat sport. Full stop. 95% of the population agree with this view very strongly (at least)

Feminism doesnt aim to ape male behaviour.

Women should not be forced (or manipulated) into having to fight against ther natural state: anymore than men can give birth.

There are many sports women compete with skill, daring, and dynamism. We do not want to see women with cauliflower ears, noses broken over an over, scarred forehards, cracked ribs... just talking about this is actually making me feel nauseus to be honest.

Even boxing is a tough sport. Are you saying we should be happy to see a woman knocked out? Her face bloodied with hooks and jabs?

And how much worse in MMA - where the only rules area couple of prohibitions against the most revolting excesses of hooliganism (I believe ther are rules against deliberate blinding, biting, striking in the crotch, and attacking the referee - maybe a few others of a similar ilk) otherwise it is free for all when any kind of violence is allowed

Even the most muderous "sport" of all, the crazed Muay Thai - where fighters are encouraged to crack their opponents skull with their elbows or knee's, and fighters often dip their "gloves" in resin and then ground up glass before fights. Do you want to see females compete in this?

Come on! There has to be some limits of human decency.

:lol:

ok.. dude.. just stop. this thread is over. Seriously.

You can't be spouting some random stats without some form of proof.. you have no clue what feminism is yet you wave it's flag. Who said anything about being happy about seeing a woman get bloodied? If she choses to engage in that act, it is her decision and she should be allowed to do so. Nobody is forcing these women to fight. Who's holding the gun against their heads??

you keep spouting this shit about MMA yet you have not bothered to look up any real facts behind the SPORT and you continually turn a blind eye when they are presented in this thread.

..and now... you bring Muay Thai into this. which I happen to have studied for a while.. not ONCE was I encouraged to kill anyone or dip my gloves in some resin and put foreign objects on them. In fact, if you take a quick look, you'll find that in Thailand, often times they would prefer to fight bare knuckle. That's far from having glass on your gloves.

SO here's the deal. This thread is done unless you can come back with a decent argument in a real framework of fact and not opinion.

I'm sure 95234928490328% of people would agree that this thread should have been closed long ago due to it's trolling behaviours and it's lack of any real basis for the boxing crowd to stand on other than a pile of shit.

---------- Post added at 04:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:17 PM ----------

and while you're at it, go back and read Jetee's post again. It's pretty much the win.

That's the problem, he doesn't watch it, he fancy's a guess and automatically thinks he's right. I'd totally watch more if they wore bikini's, may get to see some side boob action.

You're entitled to that opinion, SF, but you are no feminist. Especially considering this statement:

Women should not be forced (or manipulated) into having to fight against ther natural state: anymore than men can give birth.

So it's unnatural for women to fight to the degree that men are incapable of giving birth? (Both of which are untrue, btw.)

I have an assignment for you. The next time you are in a shopping mall, walk up to a random mother with a toddler and try to take the child away from her.

Be sure to brace for impact. Multiple impact.

Beautiful, wonderful, natural state.

Source for your statistical claim? And who are you, a MAN, to tell a woman where she does or doesn't belong? Sounds awfully sexist to me.

You try "forcing" a woman like Gini Lau or Laura Truley or Michelle Krasnoo to do -anything- she doesn't want to. These ladies break people for recreation, they're not likely to be "forced" into anything.

Meaning -you- don't want to see those things. Some of us have no problem with it; I personally find it HOT AS HELL when a lady's got fight scars. Again, keep YOUR (male) prejudices off those bad-ass women's rights.

As students of the martial arts and the warrior culture, YES, if that's what the lady in question wants!

You complain that a former WWE "wrestler" being an MMA champion automatically invalidates MMA, and yet hereby demonstrate to have gotten your knowledge of Muy Thai from a bad Van Damme movie. You have just forfeited, totally, your right to any opinion regarding martial arts, mixed or otherwise.

None of which entail being so utterly bone-headed as to try preventing a hard-assed woman fighter from pursuing her sport of choice. "Decency" has nothing to do with preventing people from taking part in the consenting activities of their choice; in this case the meaning appears to have been appropriated in the cause of a particularly silly form of prudish, collectivist Victorianism.

You're not a Feminist, Strange, you're just an especially insulting and condescending sexist/chauvinist.

Proof? Or did you pull this number out yoiur arse?

Who says their forced to? Women can make their own decisions you know, I would have figured a feminist such as yourself would know this.

As Gucci said this thread is over now that you started pulling numbers out your arse, whatever shred of credibility you had jsut went down the toilet.

---------- Post added at 02:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:36 PM ----------

Bloodsport....... Chong Li, Chong Li, Chong Li, Chong Li, Chong Li

MMA is a farce for a number of reasons I have laid out which have not been countered

Lets summarise

1 - It is cowardly to strike a man when he is down. No gentleman would do this in a sporting match

A - The MMA fans that some fighters find that lying flat on their back and being repeated struck is the best position to fight in and advantageous for them.

2 - The fact that an actor is the MMA champion after a three fight and a two fight winning streak makes the sport look ridiculous

A - Lesner apparently was a good wrestler in college

3 - Even the best MMA fighters have many losses on their record, proving the random nature of a contest that is basically a scrambled brawl where the first person to get an arm lock on someone wins.

A - The MMA fans claim that it isnt the case that MMA is TO A DEGREE pot luck but claim it shows the strength of depth of the sport that even a highly ranked fighter like Kimbo Slice can be beaten by a man half his size who was visibly shaking with fear before the fight.

The fact is, I am not that strong or tough a guy, I havent trained a lot.

If I fought a UK level heavyweight boxer I would be beaten 100 times out of 100 - under the Queensbury Rules

If I fought a top 25 MMA heavyweight from UFC I reckon I would have at least a 1/20 chance of beating him. Without anymore than my natural strength (average for my size) and a basic instinctive ability to brawl to an average level, I'd win 5 out of 100 simply because I'd get in a clinch with the guy, and in the pot luck scramble I'd be th one to get the arm lock on (and the guys superior training in wrestling would give him a win 19 times out of 20, sure)

They've all been countered, you just choose to ignore FACTS. Unless you come back with some actual FACTS or PROOF of these numbers you pull out your arse, as Gucci said, this thread is done and should just be left to die.

---------- Post added at 02:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 PM ----------

There's a distinct odour of bullshit coming from this post, can anyone else smell it or just me?

Go to a gym then and prove it, or do you not have the sack and would rather talk a tough game over the computer, this is a fuckin joke, seriously a big fuckin joke

I don't know, SF. I'm pretty sure Gina Carano could beat you 100 out of 100 times, and quite painfully at that.

It's easy to make these assumptions SF makes when he really doesn't understand the sport or the training involved, I say we all just leave him to his delusions of winning this fight and get on with more important things like when the fuck did women MMA fighters start wearing bikinis? Is this a different channel than I get here in Canada or just a UK thing:lol:

I wouldnt fight a woman under any circumstances, as you well know - so your comment is really just a silly one

It's not silly, because it's probably true regardless of your willingness to participate. I was just making a point. Why would an MMA fighter be any more or less difficult to beat than a boxer, especially to an untrained "contender"? Even a female MMA fighter would just have to give you a kickdown. I'm guessing you wouldn't even be able to close in on them. I know I wouldn't be able to. They're quick and they kick things as a pastime.

Not silly at all, you think you could beat a heavy, we all know a woman would fuck you up (and most other men) so nope not silly at all, at least not near as silly as your posts in this thread.

---------- Post added at 03:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:58 PM ----------

SF are you really Tommy Gunn from Rocky 5? The untrained prodigy with loads of skill and no one to train him? Maybe Mighty Mickey's is still open and Meredith Burgess will train you.

Added: Can this thread PLEASE go to the Hall of Fame now? It's definitely worthy for sheer hilarity if nothing else.

Let's break them down then.

MMA is a farce for a number of reasons I have laid out which have not been countered

Lets summarise

1 - It is cowardly to strike a man when he is down. No gentleman would do this in a sporting match

OPINION-- NOT FACT

A - The MMA fans that some fighters find that lying flat on their back and being repeated struck is the best position to fight in and advantageous for them. It's called Jiu-Jitsu and trust me they don't want to get hit, they want to submit you.. again no facts here only speculation

2 - The fact that an actor is the MMA champion after a three fight and a two fight winning streak makes the sport look ridiculous Apparently, so ridiculous that no boxing match can top MMA in television views, and while I'm on it again, he is not an actor when it comes to MMA. More speculation

A - Lesner apparently was a good wrestler in college
Fact. Finally, a fact

3 - Even the best MMA fighters have many losses on their record, proving the random nature of a contest that is basically a scrambled brawl where the first person to get an arm lock on someone wins.
False again. Show me these so called win and losses by the best

A - The MMA fans claim that it isnt the case that MMA is TO A DEGREE pot luck but claim it shows the strength of depth of the sport that even a highly ranked fighter like Kimbo Slice can be beaten by a man half his size who was visibly shaking with fear before the fight.
Because we all know that upsets NEVER happen in boxing

The fact is, I am not that strong or tough a guy, I havent trained a lot.
You said it, not me.

If I fought a UK level heavyweight boxer I would be beaten 100 times out of 100 - under the Queensbury Rules
We care why? More nothingness

If I fought a top 25 MMA heavyweight from UFC I reckon I would have at least a 1/20 chance of beating him. Without anymore than my natural strength (average for my size) and a basic instinctive ability to brawl to an average level, I'd win 5 out of 100 simply because I'd get in a clinch with the guy, and in the pot luck scramble I'd be th one to get the arm lock on (and the guys superior training in wrestling would give him a win 19 times out of 20, sure)

You have to know how to actually DO an armbar before you can say this. I'd go one step further and put you against people who aren't even in the UFC yet who have been training for a while up against you. If you did go to the UFC or any other organization you'd be slaughtered. You have no knowledge of Martial Arts, Feminism or anything else in this thread.



This thread is OVER

Now I know he's either trolling or completely clueless (as if I didn't before). Kimbo Slice highly rated? I'm officially retiring from this discussion.

FACT


Sorry I just wanted in on the action as well:lol:

Do you believe that Slice fought in PPV's because he is lowly rated?

Did you actally see the fight he lost in 20 seconds after being slapped twice?

If they had put him in the ring with Merciless Ray Mercer under Queensbury Rule I believe he would have suffered an even worse defeat though

I'm going to let everyone else talk about the dumb shit you have been saying but I'll just say that the UFC Light Heavy Weight Champion is undefeated, the number one ranked Heavyweight in the world has 1 loss, the Middleweight Champion has 4 losses, and the Welterweight Champion has two losses. Please stop making a fool of yourself.

Also, I'd love to see you tell Gina Carano or Cyborg that they don't belong in MMA and that you, being the big tough man that you are, are just protecting them from the cruelty of the world. I'll be there laughing as either of them knock you out cold with one punch.

---------- Post added at 03:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:34 PM ----------

They weren't pay per views, ugh. please think before talking. the fights were free to everyone.

Yep, EliteXC was trying to capture his internet popularity, it had nothing to do with his skill, hence why EliteXC is now bankrupt. Besides it was on CBS which is hardly PPV, but once again don't bother to look anything up before shooting your yap off.

Yep, did you? You assume it was a slap, but it probably would have dropped you as well.



Psssst he chocked out Mercer in an exhibition match, but don't let that FACT get in the way of your arguments.

Are all of your arguments based on speculation or do you actually have any PROOF of anything you say? Or is it still the throw enough shit at the wall and hope it sticks style of debating? If it is the throwing shit style it's fine with me, makes it easy on the rest of us to prove you wrong, which happens every time you post.

I had a whole long post to submit about 25 min. ago, but I accidentally hit "ctrl+w", and it totally cleared the thoughts I had put to type for the past 20+ min., and I'm abit distraught about that occurrence.

So, I'll just post what is most pertinent now, and the last vestige that I can currently remember of my forgotten post...

Strange Famous: You have a very noble, chivalrous to a fault, and yes, narrow-minded logic to how women are meant to be perceived in the athletic arena, and you also hold an unconvincingly-provincial stance on how a man is supposed to fight. Sure, there are clear rules about how to do so in boxing, and whereas those restrictions are much more lax within the realm of MMA, there are definite and stop-gap measures in place to ensure that this brutal contest can be as safe and fair as possible. This is not only in order to ensure the longevity of the subset of athletes that have voluntarily sought to persue the pinnacles of what MMA has to offer, but to also legitimatize in the eyes of the media that this sport is legit, & indeed can minimalize the happenstances of foul play and forced luck. This sport is as serious any other you can name, perhaps moreso than boxing, baseball, basketball, etc., in which there have been numerous revelations of cheating scandals; and the idea that you still have to reach into the reservoir of your long-held notions & recollections of what was golden-age of boxing's popularity to still assist your arguments, it really unveils what your true motives are to continuing the debate. You are not ready to let go--boxing is on the decline, MMA is suddenly on the rise, and you feel the need to herald a sport that has not been as culturally-relevant in the past two decades as mixed-martial arts has proved to be, just to protect/promote something that was once your favorite venue of entertainment. Unless you can judge MMA on its own merits, and quit comparing it to the old days of boxing, and "wrestling actors", this congregation of contending approaches and counterpoints will loop incessantly and without end.

Mixed-martial arts did not sprout forth from boxing and/or primetime wrestling; it arose primarly from the Greco-Roman style of catch wrestling, and more relevantly, the UFC exhibition evolved from the vale tudo events promoted by a certain Mestre duo, the Gracie brothers, and a similar occurrence which was happening in Japan that arranged the first formation of a tangible mma organization, called the 'Shuto' (sp?), both of which came into existence in-between the early 1920s up 'til the mid-1980s. MMA has no need, or honorific duty, to follow the formula in which you seem to attribute to boxing, a delusioned notion of 'a chivalrous bout among men to ascertain which is the best iron-fisted gentleman'. That is not how or why boxing was formed, it was rarely depicted in that fashion even in decades past, and it is as much a good, visceral and vicarious spectator sport as is now the UFC, Elite-XC, and the ilk--but the thrill is now being shared by the majority of the population, whereas you, now in the minority of those that still enjoy the spectacle of gloved fisticuffs, seek to disparage the image of what it has become just to save the face of a dwindling sport, your precious and glinted vision of what boxing is/was.


Don't knock the future just to recount the past--you end up getting left there yourself.

I wish I had your memory Jetée, I would have been lucky to remember the first line. Oh yes, nice post as well, I wish I could get my points across that well.

Yeah, um, those MMA chicks are tough as nails, and you better believe I'm gonna fight back (probably to no avail) if one is looking to take my head off. There's chivalry, and then there's stupidity.

And those chicks would stomp yer nads into ball jelly if they heard you insinuate that they are "delicate" and "frail." Hell, I bet most of them have to train with men.

That woman kicks like a fuckin mule, christ that would sting.

And she's lightweight.

Women do train with the men.. even if it's just for exercise and the woman doesn't want to pursue a career in MMA..

why? because let's be honest.. who are they going to need it on more? women or men? They get used to wrestling and fighting with men and often times they can "handle" their own if they are attacked by a man.

but you know, they are the fairer sex, they shouldn't be allowed to do such things :rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 10:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:53 PM ----------

oh ..and just because


12-1-1 Muay Thai record and 6-0 MMA

although I think Cyborg may just have her number.

funny though.. I don't see any bikinis.. and Gina would be NICE in a bikini.

Indeed. Dear GOD let me be lucky enough to find such a woman in my bed!

Jaysus, he got jacked :lol:

Yes, yes she would be nice.

She must have been forced to fight though, I'm positive I saw a gun to her head forcing her to fight:lol:

Chainmail bikini

+1

that would be sweeeeeeeeeet

Knock that shit off!

knock her top off, I'm assuming?

Sorry, SF, but you are absolutely a sexist. You put women on a pedestal and treat them like breakable objects that must be protected. You just think you're a feminist because you don't put women down but instead almost worship them as gods which is just as bad.

No woman is being forced to fight in MMA or boxing. There are female boxers if you didn't know. They struggle to even make a name for themselves in the sport. Hell, No professional sport has been receptive to females, even when they have the skill and strength to compete with the men. To say they're forced to compete is ridiculous. The powers that be would rather have them gone.

Also, You still don't understand a man on the ground is NOT a defenseless man. Royce Gracie could have started a fight laying on his back and still win. If a man is ever defenseless in MMA, The ref will step in and the fight is over.

Heavyweights are not champion of champions. Heavyweights, in my opinion are kind of boring. I personally feel the Middleweights and Light heavyweights make the sport exciting. The first few UFCs didn't have weight classes and Royce Gracie, a smaller fellow beat a few people out of his weightclass.

Finally, About Brock Lesner. As much as I dislike his attitude and feel that his actions after his win again Frank Mir was very unsportsmanlike, you cannot deny his ability to fight. He is EXTREMELY agile for his size. He was a champion (amateur) wrestler and to fight in MMA he had to train 2 years before his first MMA fight. He was already in shape, he was already a champion of another martial art and he still needed 2 years. Guess what 2 years of training got him. A loss against Frank Mir - A man laying on the ground.

When boxing first started it had a lot of elements that MMA does now (bear knuckle, even fencing)...but boxing has become refined over the years to be the ultimte test of manliness.

MMA is a flash in the pan, a retrograde step, going backwards to an uglier and less exciting contest. They package it like WWF, and they have some fans in a certain area (male, young, middle class)

Boxing is an honest sport for working men. The middle class fans of MMA will soon move on to something else once this thing is no longer trendy.

When no one remembers who Brock Lesner or Randy Coutre is - John L Sullivan will stand out, a name ringing true across the ages, as a mighty heavyweight champion, the pinnacle of manliness.

I don't understand why you can just live with both sports.

There are many sports out there and we don't have to tear one down to build up another.

How strange that you pick Sullivan, a fighter from the bare knuckle era - which you say in your first sentence is unrefined and similar to MMA.

Wasn't he a drunk who was afraid to fight black men?

I don't know...I think MMA has exploded in popularity simply because boxing isn't manly enough.

There was a void to be filled, so there we have it.

There simply isn't enough flexibility, risk-taking, and pure feats of abilities and toughness in boxing compared to MMA.

Boxing has a limited arsenal. You can resort to a small set of techniques to hide deficiencies in other areas of manliness.

In case you haven't noticed, boxing is about as dead as rock and roll. Boxing has been so tainted over the years and it's participants so over the top that people got tired of it.

You would have a point if MMA was some lawless and ruleless exhibition like it was in the very beginning but they have changed quite a bit in the past years. It is very controlled and very safe.

Again, this thread is pointless as you have an opinion about manliness and MMA doesn't fit that mold for you. Just because it doesn't fit for you, doesn't mean it doesn't fit for others. So go back to your Cricket (which is SOOOOO manly) and your boxing and let MMA continue to pound your sport into the ground and just bury your head in the sand about the facts. Boxing and MMA are both sports, they just have different rules and different tactics. How is that so difficult to understand? I'm getting quite tired of this thread and the lopsidedness that you display here. It's really quite annoying to read this troll fest.

This picture seems to apply here

Attachment 19450

If tyhe ultimate test of manliness means biting another mans ear off then yes it sure is.

Hardly a flash in the pan, if that were the case it's popularity wouldn't be constantly going up, it would have peaked by now. Only fans in certain areas you say? Any actual proof, or are you just using opinion and trying to pawn it off as a fact still?

Honest sport? Please, it's so fuckin corrupt it isn't funny. Easy opponents to pad records, biting ears, phantom punches for knockouts.......yeah real honest sport you have there.

You've got some odd ideas of what 'manliness' is that's for sure
Sure was a drunk...
Yeah sounds like a great example of a 'man':rolleyes:

I second this statement. It's a the point now that every 'point' or 'fact'(opinion) SF uses has been disproved to the point we don't even have to make new posts, we can just go back and copy and paste. If you don't have actual FACTS SF or anything that hasn't been beaten to death as was said last page, let this thread die, or go to the Hall of Fame where it belongs:lol:

He actually only had a couple of bare knuckle fights, he was the first heavyweight champion of the gloved era

He did fight black fighters, but drew the colour line once he had the belt.

Yes, he did have a drink problem.

---------- Post added at 01:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:22 PM ----------

What some people here suffer from is a lack of perspective.

The TFP is a very north american biased community in terms of its membership. A thread about baseball (a sport taken seriously only in North America) has far more contributions than threads about cricket (which is huge in India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, England, Australia, etc)

So first of all the perceived increasing popularity of MMA really is in fact only phenomona in the US and Canada.

I appreciate that these are the countries most of you are from - but please try to understand that there is a wider world. MMA is unknown in the UK for example. I guarantee that not 1 in a 1000 people in the UK would have a clue who Randy Coutre is. Probably 75 out of 100 would know who Ricky Hatton was.

Boxing is a global sport, huge in South America, Africa, Asia, Europe, North America and Australasia. MMA is really only popular in Eastern Europe, the far eastm and Northern America.

Let me make it very clear, in a factual way that I think no one cam argue with, the difference between the popularity of boxing and MMA. From Google:

Results 1 - 10 of about 50,500,000 for "boxing" [definition]. (0.85 seconds)

Results 1 - 10 of about 7,500,000 for "mixed martial arts". (0.39 seconds)

There you go. Please go and try for yourself. Absolutely crystal clear, undisputed.

So when people talk about MMA "burying" boxing... I think they should try and remember that the whole world is not two nations of the American contient (by the way, even in America boxing is more popular than MMA... Im not interested in pay for view figures which only the wealthy middle class can afford - why dont you instead ask how ma boxing gyms there are compared to how many MMA training schools...)

Proof? Can't say this without backing it up, you know that.
Funny the last Ultimate Fighter was US vs UK, so it's hardly unknown, but don't let real FACTS get in your way, you haven't yet.
Again trying pawn off OPINION as fact.

Really? Ever hear of BJJ? Last I checked Brazil is in South America. Again this is your OPINION, not a FACT, if it were fact you could prove it, so more bullshit.

That proves what exactly? More throwing shit at the wall SF, still though none of it sticks.

Can you actually prove any of this aside from saying it's a fact when in FACT it's just your OPINION? You haven't proven a bloody thing yet, other than your own ignorance of the sport. You're grasping at straws, throwing shit at the wall hoping it sticks, it really is getting quite tiring, try using some ACTUAL FACTS sometime, maybe then this thread won't be considered a joke, although I doubt that'll happen

I have shown you, factually, that there are 6 times more matches for boxing than MMA on Google... that is not an opinion, it is an easily testable fact.

But as usual the MMA fans ignore the facts and just plough on with their own opinions which they will not change even when proved wrong.

It's a Google search, that's ahrdly proof of anything.

You're telling us we're ignoring facts? That's fuckin laughable dude, you haven't paid attention to a fact in this thread yet. Now I know you're doing nothing but trolling, this is pathetic.

It is proof that more is written about boxig than MMA, that boxing if more popular than MMA.

Do you really claim that George St Pierre is better known than Oscar De La Hoya? That Royce Gracie is better known than Muhammad Ali? Is this what you believe?

Or will you now admit that boxers are bigger stars than MMA fighters?

If so, do you believe this might be because boxing is far more popular than MMA?

You oughta see what happens when somebody turns him loose in the Weaponry forum...

You know - it is very instructive how many personal comments are made about me in this thread.

Now, I want to make it clear I am not complaining about it, I am not offended or upset about it - but while again and again I relentlessly stick to the point, the peope arguing against me cant answer my arguments directly so are reduced to insults, or really very silly comments (such as claiming I would be beaten up by a 130 lbs woman... as if such an event was possible. Anyone who knows me know I would not fight a woman under any circumstances.)

It shows how fragile the defence of MMA is.

MMA is unmanly, it allows a fallen opponent to be struck. Yes, I do repeat this because it is absolutely key to my objection to this spectacle of hooliganism called UFC. It is not "me stating my own opinion and ignoring fact" - from the first age you are raised as a boy, from the scraps you have in the schoolyard - any man knows that you do not hit or kick an opponent when they are fallen, and to do so is cowardly. I am not talking about grappling on the floor as practised by jin jitsu fighters... I am talking about a man being tripped up or dragged down, or even in the worse cases knocked down, and then punched while he is on the floor.

And remember these MMA fighters wear such light gloves it is the equivalent of being hit bare knuckle virtually.

If UFC will not make a rule amendment that strikes are only allowed when both men are standing and that when on the floor fighters can only grapple, then it should not be allowed to take place. Quite simply it should not be legal without this rule change.

Actually, a search for "MMA" turned up 27.7 million hits on my end. And "UFC" turned up another 28 million.

How many "boxing" hits were references to "Boxing Day" or "boxing" one's ears, or "Thai boxing" or "kick boxing" or ....

You have to admit that those returns for MMA and UFC are pretty decent for something "with no history."

But it's true. Google isn't the best measure for deeming the popularity of something. And it's only one measure. Attendance, number of events, number of practitioners, increasing number of practitioners, the money involved, the merchandising related to it, cultural references to it, its visibility and promotion in public, who's talking about it, etc., are others.

wtf? using a google search as a defense?? wha..how.. huh??

Let's just ignore the fact that boxing as a sport has been around much longer than MMA as a sport firstly..that accounts for some of the hits in google, then add to the fact that Muay Thai boxing, Dirty boxing, Kick boxing etc etc were included in those hits, and you see why the hits are greater.

A man on the ground has two options, either gain a guarded position and work from the bottom.. or cover up in a defenseless posture. If the latter occurs the fight is stopped, so that obviously means that defenseless hitting is not allowed. Just as other forms of kicking and hitting in various postures and places are not allowed.

8oz gloves are quite a bit different than using bare knuckles. Quit spouting shit that you have no knowledge of. Have you ever put on a pair of 8oz gloves?? No you'd rather wear big red gloves with all that padding because that's SOOOO much MANLIER!! GROWL HEAR ME ROAR I AM MAN! :rolleyes:

So please.. DO NOT bring up the "unmanly" argument again or this TROLL FEST will be closed.

Now to the UK thing. You sir are an idiot. MMA and UFC have grown leaps and bounds in the UK. Ignoring the douchebag that is Michael Bisbing, UFC just had a US vs UK event. It drew massive crowds. Sure boxing may still be bigger in the UK, but it won't be long before MMA takes over there as well.

Now if I hear you spout that hitting a man on the ground is "unmanly" again. I will lock this thread. I'm not joking. I'm sick of you using that as a factual argument when it is clearly an opinion and has nothing to do with the structure and rules that are part of some forms of martial art as well as it in in the construct of the rules in MMA. So stop saying it is unmanly. When I was a kid and I was in the street fighting. I didn't let anyone up.. I jumped on top and continued to beat them, if I was on the ground I continued to get beaten. So I don't know what this Chivalry flag you're waving is, but it's about as torn and tattered as the actual act.

Actually, I was raised knowing that a man's most dangerous when he's down, and that you should redouble your attack until he is no longer physically capable of threatening you. Then again, I was being prepared for actual FIGHTS, not pommy gentleman's games.

No, it's how you make sure the Other Fucker doesn't come up with a knife or a rock in his hand and rearrange your vital organs. As a subject of the Monarch of the most violent country in the developed world, this is something you should consider, for your own future safety. MMA stands for Mixed Martial (from the latin MARS, the God of WAR) Arts: ie training for lethal combat. In any street fight, knife-fight, or military action this "don't hit a man while he's down" crap will get you badly hurt or killed, and since MMA is a Martial art, after all...

Because it violates your outdated, irrelevant, unmanly prejudices. Right.

I must say, before I got involved with this thread, I was a bit indifferent to combat sports in general. I mean, I have always been intrigued, but I'm not that into sports, really.

However, now that I've seen some of the views here, I must say I have an increased interest in MMA. Anyone have any pointers for learning more about or learning how to enjoy watching the sport?

well I had a whole post typed out for you BG..and it disappeared. I would say just jump into it. Most commentators are versed enough to explain what's going on with the mounts, guards and submissions that you'll learn pretty quickly..

beware of Joe Rogan though.. he's annoying as fuck.



and this picture is specifically for Strange Famous.
Attachment 19451

That is absolute rubbish. I'm from the UK and I know a ton of people who not only know who Randy Couture is, but who are massive MMA fans.

If your figure is right, in the 65 million population of the UK there would be 65000 people who knew of Couture. How then did they manage to get 16,235 fans into the O2 arena for a UFC PPV. I reckon the vast majority of the people there would have known who Couture is. Then you have the people like myself who have never had the opportunity to go to a PPV, but would love to, but can't for whatever reason (cost, the fact London is not exactly central to the UK, whatever). I wager there's closer to a million MMA fans in the UK than there is 65000.


You're really going to have to stop quoting figures unless you have sources - it's like the old saying says - 98.873% of statistics are made up on the spot.

No it's just that you haven't been listening.

Yes lets.

Being repeatedly struck isn't advantages in any position, standing, or on the ground. However a BJJ artist has a large advantage on his back over someone who doesn't know BJJ.

First off he has never been an "actor". Pro-wrestling, while fake, is still a very physically demanding job. Could most pro-wrestlers make the jump to MMA and be successful? No, only a very select few could. Kurt Angle (1996 Olympic Gold medalist) probably could have gone to MMA and done very well if it wasn't for the many injuries he has sustained in his prowrestling career. Lesnar is the EXCEPTION, not the rule.
As far as deserving a title shot, I actually don't think he earned one. But the champion at the time (Coutur) public stated that he wanted to fight Brock Lesnar because he thought that Brock was going to be the next big star of the sport.

I'm going to get back to this in a second via edit.
Okay first Kimbo Slice - not a highly ranked fighter. Kimbo Slice not even a ranked fighter.
Second okay lets look at some of the highly ranked fighters records and see how many of them contain these "many" loses you speak of. Then lets look at the actual loses and see how many came from a) matches against a current champion, b) matches against a future champion, or c) at the start of their career

Current Lightweight Champion - BJ Penn
Record 13-5
BJ likes to move up in weight classes which is his downfall. 2 of his losses have come against Georges St. Pierre (current Welterweight Champion). 1 of his losses came against Matt Hughes (then WW champion). 1 came against Jens Pulver for the Lightweight title. 1 came against future Lightheavyweight (yes BJ's a bit nuts sometimes and likes to jump around weightclasses) champion Lyoto Machida.
That were considered major upsets - Zero (possibly one when he was facing the much larger Machida).

Georges St Pierre
Record 19-2
Loss to Matt Hughes (then WW champion and considered one of the greatest WWs of all time). Loss to Matt Serra (considered one of the biggest upsets of all time)
Losses that were considered major upsets - One.

Anderson Silva
Record 24-4
All of his losses came early in his career. Since 2005 the only loss he has was by DQ when he gave Okami an illegal kick (Silva was winning the fight until this point). Since joining the UFC he has been unstoppable (btw he got a title fight in his second UFC fight because he was that dominant). If it's a crap shoot then why has he sucessfully defended five times (should have been 6 but Travis Lutter missed weight so it wasn't considered a title fight).

Lyoto Machida
Record 15-0
Undefeated

Fedor Emelianenko
Record 30-1 (1 No Contest)
One loss is a doctor's stoppage due to cut early in his career that was actually caused by an illegal strike and should have been a no-contest.
BTW the 1 No Contest was an accidental headbutt that knocked Nogueira silly. Fedor won the rematch.

There's the guys considered the top fighters in the world.
Combined record
101 - 12 -1 NC
With those 12
- 3 are early career loses
- 1 should have been ruled a no contest
- 1 was a disqualification due to an illegal strike
- 1 was BJ Penn (a lightweight) bulking up to fight a Lightheavyweight
- 5 were fights against champions/#1 contenders.
- 1 was an upset.

Clearly a

Wrong. If you fought a top 25 heavyweight with no training other than your natural strength you would lose 100 times out of 100. The bottom rung HWs are either a) very effectient strikers with minimal ground game or b) very good ground game fighters with limited striking. The first group would KO you before you had the chance to even get close enough to take them down for an arm bar. The second group would gladly go to the ground with you when you, as an untrained amateur, would have a 100% chance of being submitted.

If you are going to use your position as a moderator of the site to win or imgine that you win arguments there isnt much point in me or anyone else having a conversation with you.

Its not my website and I cant tell people how it should be run, but I find it hard to see how this its in with all the stated aims to get more people involved.

I'm threatening to lock it because you insist on using opinions as fact, and you make arguments that are nothing more than a troll. This entire thread should have been locked before it began because you played this card a while back. Don't worry I got your report.. it's rubbish in my eyes.. but I'll let someone else decide on that matter.

If you want to continue arguing this point you supposedly have in your head, then you need to bring ammo to support them.. so far all we have is a load of shit and made up stats to support your theories. It has nothing do with "winning an argument" it has to do with the fact that you simply refuse to acknowledge any argument brought forth against your fallacies and you continue to spark the debate by using trolling comments such as the "manly" factor; this is also in total ignorance of your sexist viewpoints that have nothing to do with the subject at hand whatsoever. It has nothing to do with getting people involved or not.. people don't want to get involved in something when they have to wade through waist high bullshit to get to any meat.. and you've certainly thrown around enough bullshit that it's waist deep.

So spare the martyr syndrome.. it doesn't make boxers look good.

No personal comments have been made about you, they've been made about your opinion being shit, bit no a single fuckin comment has been directed or can be considered a personal attack.

You have no point, it's been all over the board, you've been throwing shit at a wal land hoping it sticks, and the only thing it sticks to are your posts.

It shows how fragile the defence of MMA is.

Stil lyou don't egt that a downed opponent isn't defenseless, there's a difference between being down and being defenseless, it isn't our fault you can't understand that.
This is fuckin funny, you've done nothing but ignore facts in this thread, and tried pawning off you opinion as fact numerous time, fuck you've even tried pulling numbers out your arse, remember 95% of all people agree with you? Yeah that number came out your arse.
Really? Whoever taught you to fight must have been stupid then, it's a fuckin fight, as my father told me, he goes down dpon't fuckin let him back up.
Jiu-Jitsu is the correetc term, we went through this last page, or do you seriously not read our posts?
Again just because he's down doesn't mean he's defenseless.

You can't say it's the equivalent of being hit by bare knuckles then say virtually, it's contradicting, it either is or isn't.

OPINION not fact once again, but thanks for playing we have some lovely parting gifts for you.

Kimbo Slice has never even fought on PPV. He's fought 4 times on television events. That's it.

As stated before, and when Mercer fought him under MMA rules Mercer got submitted by a guillotine in the first round.

I don't have much to add to anything, as I dislike either sport. But I just wanted to bring up that in Brazil MMA is literally hundreds of times more popular than boxing. Victor Belfort, Anderson Silva, Royce Gracie, Randy Couture are very popular and UFC events are televised. Boxing, meanwhile, is not shown in any channels, not even PPV, and you will only see anything on it on ESPN international. No one knows Pacquiao, and the last time a boxer had any name recognition over there was when Acelino Freitas was champion.

We all know this but SF doesn't believe facts, he'd rather use his opinion and pawn it off a 'fact'.
I love how he actually thinks he could get in a clinch with anyone, this may be one of the most outrageous things ever posted here on TFP and there have been some fuckin doozies over the years, I still can't believe someone would be foolish enough to make such a claim.........well I can believe it as someone first has to have the sack to prove it, which SF will never go near an MMA training facility, it's easy to be a tough guy and make these claims while sitting in ones living room.

MMA is global too. Forget North America.
UFC 99 - Cologne, German. Attendance 12,854
UFC 95 - The O2 Arena, London, England. Attendance 13,268
UFC 93 - The O2, Dublin, Ireland. Attendance 9,369

It's also huge in as you said, eastern europe and much of asia. Also don't forget South America.


First off, as stated before, how many of those "boxing" results are "kick boxing"? I'd bet a fair number
In fact
Results 1 - 10 of about 12,900,000 for kick boxing. (0.30 seconds)
so lets strike that boxing number down a to 37, 600, 000 shall we.
and when I googled mma I got
Results 1 - 10 of about 27,700,000 for mma.

Again, how many of those boxing results are boxing day?
Results 1 - 10 of about 17,300,000 for boxing day. (0.21 seconds)
Uh oh Boxing doesn't look so good now does it?

Also as far as "affording" PPV if it's only the wealthy middle class that can afford it doesn't that go against your arguement that MMA only appeals to college frat boys?

For someone who speaks of "honour" SF, you are behaving very dishonourably by telling untruths.

Sullivan very publicly and often said he "Would never fight a negro. I never have and I never will."

Boxing - Thomas Hauser - John L. Sullivan Revisited: Part 3

As to bare knuckle fights, he fought many of them! He is regarded as the last bare knuckle champion. London Rules allowed either bare knuckle or very light gloves (no padding, not even as much as bag gloves today).

John L. Sullivan - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia

You either know little about the history of boxing or you are flat out being dishonest, a very reprehensible behaviour.

Sullivan never fought Peter Jackson, and made some silly comments when Jack Johnson became champ... which I assume is what you are talkng about...but when he toured the country in his earlier years he foght all comers, black and white.

And the majority of the fights recorded today on his record were gloved. For the simple fact that prize fights were illegal,but atheletic displays (with gloves) weren't for most of his career.

I dont hold John L up as a moral example, but he wasnt a coward and he didnt duck anyone.

And the back track begins:lol: When you say this:
You're holding him up as a moral example, whether you think it or not. Oh yeah and it's funny how once you get called on his being a racist his comments are 'silly'

This just in MMA is still a sport........

No he didn't.

I'm not sure if you are utterly clueless about the history of the sport you profess to love, or have simply gotten caught in a lie and are trying to duck out, but here is a link to an article written by John L Sullivan for the London Times on the eve of the Jack Johnson-Jim Jeffries fight where he reiterates, as I have already said, that he had never fought a black fighter.

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive...639C946196D6CF

You are behaving very dishonourably.

And the winner, in the blue corner from Ontario, Canada...........highthief.....

/me applauds highthief.


Wow I just applauded a supporter of the scouse.. Wtf has the world come to? :p

Good on ya.

I find this portion quite funny, it's almost like he's trying to convince himself he's not biased.
I understand it was a different time and things were different with race relations and such, but it's still comical to see the words "I am not biased" and "should fight in a class by themselves" in the same sentence, he pretty much gave the exact definition of bias.

I'd agree just jump right in. Mike Goldberg really does seem to understand that each PPV may be someone's first and does a good job describing what's going on, and why.

Try watching an episode of UFC Unleashed on Spike. It's an hour long show that features rebroadcasts of three or four matches from previous Pay-per-views. It airs about a bunch of times per week on Spike

Thanks, m0rpheus (and gucci). Are there events on DVD worth watching? I'm not much of a broadcast TV viewer.

Agreed. Though Goldberg also is perpetually leaning in and giving Joe Rogan a "Take-me-in-your-strong-arms-and-fuck-the-shit-out-of-me" look.

Seriously.

hold on.. I just have to bust the editors ass for using the wrong form of 'their' in the post. :lol:

the DVDs aren't bad at all.. you can also youtube UFC/Affliction/Pride etc to watch what you want.. Light Heavy and Middleweight is where it's at IMO.

The old PRIDE PPV's are usually good watching, they can be found on most torrent sites, the rules are different from UFC, and you get to see some great action. Can't remember who did the commentary for them though for some reason Frank Trigg comes to mind but I could be wrong.

The original UFC's are good as well for getting to see men of different sizes battle it out as weight classes were non existent when it first started.

wait..maybe you meant are there any dvd events worth watching..

fuck.. I'm drunk sorry.

---------- Post added at 11:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:32 PM ----------

Fuck Frank Trigg..

I think Bas used to do some Pride commentating. Bas is god.

Wow, that body language is way disturbing. I never noticed that before.

Probably because I tune them out until the bikini doll-girl comes back on the screen and the two caveman start swinging.

You fuckers need to check out World Combat League. That stuff makes UFC look like a bar brawl. I'm a big fan.

You're right it is Bas, I had a brainfart there for a second.
Some good highlights there.

---------- Post added at 09:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:42 PM ----------


Used to see this on Sportsnet here in Canada but haven't in quite some time

I was going to say....

Stick to moving pictures, buddy. ;)

* * * * *

Thanks for the starting tips, guys. Imma gonna check things out. :thumbsup:

EDIT: I enjoyed that Bas vs. Warpath clip. It's great to see the sportsmanship between the two. Bas does indeed appear to be a god.