Strange Famous

Is Brett Favre the best QB ever?

All the stats say so...

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for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
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The Gospel of Thomas

DEI37

Pretty much. I don't follow football that much, but do live in Wisconsin. Hard to beat the guy.

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djtestudo

Johnny Unitas was the first to throw for 40,000 career yards, and he did it in a rushing-focused era with few QB- and receiver-coddling rules. He's STILL 11th in passing yards and 7th in passing TDs.

He'd throw for 65,000 yards-plus in the modern game.

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--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

Ilow

Brett should get consideration in any "best QB" discussion, but like many players in football and other sports who have amazing longevity, some of his numbers are a result of simply playing so many games. He has been great at times, pretty awful at others and sort of inconsistent at others, but he still keeps racking up the numbers. Don't get me wrong, I am not knocking him, i doubt most guys would play half of the games he does, especially at his age, and that is special no matter what. However, he would not be the first person who I would choose in the "If you had to win one game, who would you choose?" argument. (Brady for me, thanks). No matter what Favre appears to be a cool guy and plays the game with exuberance and passion, good for him (and the fans).

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Jadedfox

He is definitely one of the best ever. I don't think you can say that someone in particular was the best ever.

That said, he can go fuck himself since I'm a Bears fan

--jaded

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djtestudo

He's no Eric Kramer, is he?

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--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

Mister Coaster

But he didn't. Times change, rules change. Deal with it. You are still entitled to the opinion, but comparing numbers is somewhat pointless, for reasons you stated.

Favre certianly made a believer out of me this season. I would have bet the house that he was washed up this year and that The Packers would do no better than 8-8.

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souzafone

Unitas only played 12 regular season games each year, also. Sorta like if A-Rod could play 216 games each year for the rest of his career while chasing the home run record.

djtestudo

Or if Babe Ruth could have had the additional eight games a season, plus modern training and expansion-era pitching.

But by that logic, each new generation's players are the best ever. Peyton Manning is THE best quarterback, LaDanain Tomlinson is THE best running back, Randy Moss is THE best receiver, Ray Lewis is THE best linebacker, Champ Bailey is THE best cornerback, etc.

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"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

Glory's Sun

Favre is one of the best most definately. However, I think he needed another ring to really seal the deal. Now I can't put all the blame squarely on him as it's a team thing, but it's just like Peyton. If Peyton can get another ring or two then he'll probably be talked about as the greatest ever. That's just how it goes.

Mister Coaster

Sheesh djtestudo, even when I tell you that you are right, you feel the need to argue? I was saying its pointless to compare Unitas's numbers because the rules/style/numbers of the game have changed. Generations past numbers of any sport won't stack up to modern numbers because these changes have been made.

Now... compare something where rules haven't changed, like weightlifting or bodybuilding. Modern science and understanding of how muscles & the human body work and react give the modern athlete a bigtime advantage over the athletes of the past. Yeah, sterroids exist, but even a modern weightlifter with science on their side and no sterroids would dominate yesteryear's competition. That's why records get broken.

Do modern football & baseball players take advantage of the same thing? You betcha. Do they have an advantage? I would think so. Thats why I said numbers comparison is pointless. You want to compare numbers vs. their same-era people, win record, or just plain old toughness, there you go.

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Luke Cage

(Only voting the qb's I have actually seen play in my lifetime)

1. Joe Montana
2. Dan Marino
3. John Elway
4. Peyton Manning / Tom Brady
5. Brett Farve
6. Dan Fouts
7. Warren Moon
8 Jim Kelly
9. Bernie Kosar
10. Theisman, Cunningham (late 80's early 90's).

If I were to make an all-time list... Farve would be in the lower half of the top ten.

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QuasiMondo

I don't think you can be considered one of the best ever unless you're able to build a dynasty.

Montana, Aikman, Brady, those are greatest ever (and any other QB who's been part of a SB dynasty).

Numbers are good, but as a QB, you have to do more than just put numbers up. That kind of stuff may work fine for wide recievers, running backs, and linebackers, but as the head honcho of your team, you have to deliver, and to be considered greatest ever, you have to deliver again and again. Any QB that doesn't have a Lombardi trophy on his mantle doesn't make my list, and any QB that doesn't have at least two trophies is going to be a hard sell for me.

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Cameron originally envisioned the Terminator as a small, unremarkable man, giving it the ability to blend in more easily. As a result, his first choice for the part was Lance Henriksen. O. J. Simpson was on the shortlist but Cameron did not think that such a nice guy could be a ruthless killer.

-From the Collector's Edition DVD of The Terminator

Luke Cage

I see the dynasty argument and it is valid to a point... only one problem I see with it.

It takes more than just the qb to deliver, and more importantly it takes front office to aquire talent to complement said qb.

I can't blame Fouts for never having a D and always having to score 35+ to win.

Can't blame Elway for all those years he carried Denver on his back all by his big toothed lonesome self.

Marino?? He could fall into the "Did not deliver category." All the talent a qb could ever have in an arm, but lacked "something."

Aikman I see as someone who would not have done what he did if not for all the talent he had around him... Could he have played as well in say Minnesota during that time? Not too sure.

Brady, Manning.... they could play anywhere and shine.

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I saw this wino, he was eating grapes. I was like, "Dude, you have to wait." ~ Mitch Hedberg

QuasiMondo

That 'something' is what separates the greatest ever from those who were really damn good.

__________________
Cameron originally envisioned the Terminator as a small, unremarkable man, giving it the ability to blend in more easily. As a result, his first choice for the part was Lance Henriksen. O. J. Simpson was on the shortlist but Cameron did not think that such a nice guy could be a ruthless killer.

-From the Collector's Edition DVD of The Terminator

Luke Cage

True in a broad general sense... but I can't fault Jim Kelly for not having a ring.

Bills had the Giants and if they stuck with Thurman just a smidge more and made that field goal?

Not Jim's fault for the Dallas games, they were over before they began...

Redskins? I had them pegged to win that game... that is the one game I saw Kelly truly fail in. Kelly 28/58 275yards 2td's 4int's

4 Straight SB Appearances... Not too shabby.




Marino had a chance... a little too early in his career and was schooled by Montana. That was his best team he had his entire career, he never had a real runner or even adequate RB. Defense was always porous and he had to sling it 40 times a game to win. After the Clayton and Duper were gone he never had wideouts like that again.

I see his longevity and his stats as remarkable enough to warrant being regarded as one of the greatest ever.

SB wins are great, but can't be used as the sole barometer for QB greatness.

Way too many great QB's have been saddled with average talent too many times.


I'm just glad Elway finally got his, I would hate for Buck Tooth to not be viewed as one of the greats.

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I saw this wino, he was eating grapes. I was like, "Dude, you have to wait." ~ Mitch Hedberg

djtestudo

Johnny Unitas?

Won three championships (1958, 1959, 1970) and lost two more. Plus what I said above.

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"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

Esoteric

If the Packers win the Super Bowl this year, you think Favre will retire?

I don't think he's the best ever. I do agree though that he's one of the best right now, and will go down in history as one of the best.

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djtestudo

I think so. He'll be going out on top, which is what every athlete wants to do. He'll have no reason to come back.

Oh, and just to keep the trend with my posts...Johnny Unitas

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"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

Not Right Now

Dan Marino was amazing, but you'd think that being from Miami I would absolutely adore him, but I would have him lower on the list based on the fact that he never took us to a championship.

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Strange Famous

I wonder if people lionize the past sometimes (and I probably too)

I dont know enough and dont have enough bankground of playing and watching to make judgements about US Football in the way I would about football/soccer... but I think it is very hard to balance 40 years ago with now, when different era's have such different levels.

Another question I've been asking myself is Maradonna, or (just maybe) Zidane.

But people are saying Favre need's another ring, and yet Marino gets quoted above him? Hasn't Brett thrown more yards and scores than anyone else?

Is there a argument that that makes him the greatest in itself?

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Not Right Now

Strange get ready for this, because it's a first. I agree with you.

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I only came to dance.

QuasiMondo

Unitas obviously makes the cut, even with his glory days coming before the dawn of the super bowl era.

__________________
Cameron originally envisioned the Terminator as a small, unremarkable man, giving it the ability to blend in more easily. As a result, his first choice for the part was Lance Henriksen. O. J. Simpson was on the shortlist but Cameron did not think that such a nice guy could be a ruthless killer.

-From the Collector's Edition DVD of The Terminator

zerosk8

No doubt this is great list of quarterbacks. However, Brett Favre does not belong at number 5. He has the two most prestigious quarterback records, both of which he is going to continue to build on over the course of next year (which he committed to last week) and however long he decides to play. With no disrespect to Elway, Marino, Manning, Brady, or Montana; Favre surpasses them all. He's got the all around game, and has the numbers to prove it. The only person that could stand in his way is Montana. This is all coming from a die hard, life long Bears fan mind you, so it is hard to admit. But he is the best, and that's the truth.

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thespian86

Agreed. He holds his own in a list of greats. Even without perfect technique and perhaps an over enthusiastic arm, I think he should atleast be number two under montana. He is certainly the greatest in my generation. He has something that no one else does and that is his overwhelming love of the game, his undeniable leadership skills, his masterful performances. He's the MVP in my opinion. Brady had an incredible season, the best of his great career, but he wasn't the answer for the patriots. Favre/McCarthy was the answer for a young, incredible team.

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guyy

Bart Starr was pretty good, too. Maybe you all didn't, but i saw him play. As a Packer fan, i love Favre, but if you had one game to win, i think Bart's the guy.

I should add that longevity and durability are part of the deal. That's why we're not talking about Lynn Dickey.

I think Moss deserved it more than Brady.

Jadedfox

Fucking vintage Favre in the last game against Seattle. 38 years old what?! It would be absolutely amazing if Green Bay meets New England in the SB. I've made some nice money betting on the G-men in the playoffs so far but I'd really like to see Green Bay in the Superbowl (even though the Bears fan inside me is screaming!).

--jaded

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pointbock69

Maybe not the best pure quarterback ever, but definitely the most fun QB to watch in my lifetime!

Hanxter

Now I lay me down to bed,
A wedge of cheese upon my head,
Allegiance to the Packers I promise to keep,
And cheer them on while I'm asleep.

If I should die, don't let me wander,
Just bury me 'neath the frozen tundra.
But, Lord, before you take my soul,
Let me see the Pack in one more Super Bowl.

Forgive me Lord, for those I've hated,
The Lions and Bears, they're so overrated.
The streets of Heaven, so I've been told,
Are paved for us in green and gold.

If I get to Heaven I'll have only one wish,
A big screen TV with a satellite dish.
I pray for this Lord, for only one reason,
To cheer on my Pack to a winning season.

I'll close this prayer by thanking You, Lord,
For listening to me and the time You afford.
But please remember the Vikings in their despair,
Because that's a team that hasn't a prayer!!

Pats by 9

Borla

He's not the most skilled ever.
He's not the smartest ever.
He doesn't have the best arm ever.
He's not the most successful ever.

But he's high enough in all of those catagories to be in any discussion of the best QB ever. IMO, he's thrown too many interceptions, and too many incompletions, and made too many throws off his back foot into coverage trying to force a play.

But I can't argue against him being one of the most fun to watch ever, one of the ones to love the game most, and one of the guys I'd most want to build around ever. Names like Montana, Starr, Brady, Manning, etc. might be in that conversation too. Maybe Peyton is better. Maybe Joe was better. Maybe even Dan was better, but had a lesser cast surrounding him. But we all benefited by having the pleasure of watching #4 go out there every Sunday and give it his best, no doubt about that.



<---Not a Packers fan.

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Kpax

Yes, while Tom Brady slowly but steadily catches up.

thespian86

Brady will never be Favre.

IMO I think the argument for Favre has just as much to do with his personable demeanor and his down-home boyish charm as it does his skill. People could argue his technical flaws (his gunslinger's mentality, throwing off his backfoot). You could argue that he's made too many mistakes.

Let's count em': three MVPs (only person to do that I believe), Most Touchdowns, Most Yards, Never missed a game, A SB, another appearance.

What counts just as much: His game against Oakland after his father died. Fuck, that little underhanded toss last week. He is a playmaker, a leader, an undescribable talent, a REAL football player. He the REAL life Rudy. How could you not like the man. How could you not respect the numbers?

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pixelbend

In a position that sees more career ending concussions than any other in the league, he has started in 274 consecutive games (including the playoffs). That, to me, is his most impressive stat.

But, that's not the reason he is one of the best ever. To restate PMF21's point, it's his personality. 99% of the guys in the NFL make me glad I'm sitting at home on the couch watching instead of out there getting pounded into the ground. Favre is one of the only guys who, after watching the game, gives me a real urge to want to be out there on the field or at least grab the ball and toss it in the yard. He has so much fun when he is playing, it's infectious, even in my house 600 miles away from Lambeau. Very few players can do that.

But, I think playing in Green Bay, WI has a lot to do with that view too. It's the smallest NFL town by far and it feels like everyone's home town.

That's why I think this superbowl will be the greatest "good vs. evil" matchup ever (assuming it is GB and NE). The Patriots feel like a football machine, the NFL Empire if you will. Then you have Green Bay, a young, talented team from Smalltown, USA led by a good-time gunslinger.

Maybe it's because I'm a Green Bay fanatic and a Star Wars nerd, but I think the packers have a great shot at blowing up Darth Belicheck's Death Star.

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zerosk8

There is absolutely no way that he would throw for 65,000 yards in the modern game...yes, he was good, but you have to take into effect that defenses are much faster, athletic, and complex than they used to be. Plus, if you say he'd throw for 65,000 yards in the modern game, you have to say that he would have to same line protecting him when he threw for 40,000..that line would get blown out of the water say against New York or Chicago's defensive line. He was good, but no way is he the best ever. Go Favre.

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Ilow

So does Favre's epic gag against the G-men change how he is perceived. He essentially cost GB the game by being typical Favre. Brady, Manning (probably either) and others would have won that game for them.

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Ace_O_Spades

Essentially this is just baseless conjecture... on any given Sunday, and all that jazz

Brett Favre has won more games by being Brett Favre than he has lost for being Brett Favre... Yeah he takes chances, and he loses big games sometimes because of those chances.

Is he the best ever? No. Is he top 5? His iron man status combined with his stats, three mvps, and his ring put him there, no question.

Also, he was runner up for the MVP this year... if Brady doesn't have his magical season, and if the Packers weren't retarded and picked up Randy Moss in the off season, who knows what happens this season.

I'm still shaking my head as to why they passed up Moss.

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Jadedfox

Favre is easily in the top 5 of all time. I should know, god knows how many times he killed da Bears.

--jaded

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Cross-Over

There isn't a clear picture of exactly what happened. I believe Favre claimed that Moss was willing to be traded to the Packers, but another source mentioned that he was only willing to take a pay cut if he could be traded to the Patriots. Who knows for sure. The idiot Raiders traded him for nothing and did so in their own conference.

Ace_O_Spades

I love the stat of how many QBs the Bears have had since 1992... 51... Versus the Packers one.

And thirteen different Bears starting quarterbacks have faced Favre in his tenure at GB

Linky

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Feh.

Jadedfox

And we still don't have a franchise QB! Grossman gets a lot of undeserved crap and he is certainly a serviceable QB, but he's no franchise QB. Then again, finding that franchise QB is like searching for a needle in a haystack.

--jaded

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