pan6467

That's my point.

Yes, I would love to watch Manny tear up the BloSux because I hate the BloSux and even tho Manny left for more money, he still has a place in my heart as a one time Indian.

And I will spout about the old days, one the song parody sounds great to me.... two, I truly long for days when teams were teams and you watched a player stay in one town like George Brett, Johnny Bench, Kirby Puckett, Tony Gwynn, Barry Larkin and so on, all, who could have left for more money, but stayed where they were for their careers.

Players who played for the love of the game and did the best they could co day in and day out.

It's not bitterness, it's growing older and believing the old days were better. Much like those who are from a generation earlier than me believe baseball was better in the 50's and 60's, and their fathers believing it better in the 20's, and 30's.

Much like many today will believe 20 years from now there are no Mannys, no Roy Oswalts, no Jake Peavys, no Derek Jeters, no Jorge Posada's..... and so on.

It's generational. It's not bitterness, it only appears bitter when you are young and don't understand people as they get older, because you have all the answers....

It doesn't mean I hate the sport or the players, I hate what the game has become and what owners and players have done. But deep down it's still the same beautiful game, just different on the outside than when I was in awe of the game.

PS you don't like what I have to say you can ignore me....... that would save you from being sooooo annoyed and upset by my posts and rants over the past.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Glory's Sun

boo fucking hoo.. the greats of the past have gone. they played in a different era.. when baseball wasn't such a huge business. if they had played in the same MLB that exists today, you wouldn't feel the same way because many of them would have done the same thing that many do now. they would leave to take the paycheck.

Look I understand the love for the game as it was and all that jazz, but to constantly complain about it does the same thing that big business baseball does.. it undermines the game. Even the players today who leave for money are still human and are always on the road and away from families and at the scrutiny of the media and fans.

It's really no fucking different.

djtestudo

The longing for the older generation of players is always going to be there.

If you ever get a chance to read Jon Miller's book (Confessions of a Baseball Purist) he does a whole chapter on these kinds of quotes from older players and writers, then gives their date (usually the 1930s or 1950s, when "today's players" that the writer is talking about are the ones older fans wax nostolgic about in the present). So like Pan says, in the future I'll be talking about (for example) guys like Ripken and Gwynn and (probably, as much as I would like to avoid it) Jeter and others in this same vein.

There's an awful lot about baseball that will always remain the same, no matter who is playing.

Of course, there are some things that should change...I'll take the numbers over the eyes of a bitter Indians fan any day

But seriously, this is going to be a really nice set of playoff series. Rays in six and Dodgers in five.

__________________
"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

pan6467

Wow, you missed everything I said in he previous post.... almost as if you have other issues with me that you just feel the need to vent.

Is it because you just don't like what I have to say?

Then don't read it..... attacking me for opinions will not change my opinion... nor am I going to stoop to your level and call you names or degrade you personally. I don't know anything about you.... don't know you personally so I won't call you bitter or say boo fucking hoo to you when you give your opinion. Last I checked, as long as I was respectful to others here I could speak my opinion and not have to be called names {except in politics}.

But in all honesty, I just don't think you like me and you just have to degrade my posts here, because you get some feeling of control and of being a better person because you can get away with calling me bitter, yelling at me, degrading what I say ..... if that's the case.... then you are so much the smarter and better person Gucci.


-----Added 8/10/2008 at 01 : 29 : 24-----
QFT you understand, I see. And yes, in time you will wax nostalgic about the players you listed but now also about the Mannings, and TO and Randy Moss, Federer, and so on.

Nostalgia happens. If you ever watched the old Bob Costas show after Letterman on NBC in the 80's when he'd have on Billy Crystal or Meat Loaf.. they'd always talk about players from their youth. Back when Larry King did overnight syndicated radio he'd talk about the 40', 50's and 60's NY teams. "Old bitter fucking farts, get over it and yourselves," I'd say.

Nostalgia just happens. Me it'll be the Big Red Machine, the 90's Indians, the Cardiac Kids, Elway beating Kosar's Browns 2 years in a row, the drive and the fumble. It'll be how we had Price, Daugherty, Nance, Ehlo, Williams and could never beat that guy Jordan...... There were the Connors, McEnroe, Borg, matches. The Jack Nicklaus, Greg Norman arguments and later Payne Stewart, John Daly, Paul Azinger arguments with friends on the golf course.

I think the big part is that sports and your idea of the game stems from childhood and a little later. Then you get a family of your own, you work, you find other ways of entertainment and look back and see those players of your youth as something great because it helps remind you of that youth and the dreams and the less stressful parts of your life.... it's just a theory and an opinion of mine. May have merit, may not. For me, personally it does, and that's all I can truly speak on, my personal experiences and beliefs.

I also believe that this is why the Rolling Stones, Eagles, McCartney, Van Halen and to lesser degrees Heart, Journey, Tom Petty and so on still sell out or have huge crowds... even though their voices, their stamina and the players maybe not as great as they were in their prime... alot of it is nostalgia.

People as they get older think the newer music sucks.... my grandparents were Bing Crosby, Frank Sinatra fans who liked a little 50's and 60's rock because they were exposed to it by my parents. With my parents, they liked the 60's and 70's music a little 80's because they had to but not really. Then there's me I like the 60's through mid 90's music and a little of today's but it's not like it was back in the day.

Nostalgia.... sports, music, life in general..... we grow up, get jobs, have responsibilities and new interests and when we look around and see those younger than us enjoying their youth.... we have to talk about ours and argue how our music, teams, players, tv shows, politics and so on were better because that was our youth.... that was when we had hopes and dreams and everything was new {in those arenas}. It doesn't mean they were better, or worse or even much different.... it just means that nostalgia reminds us of when times were simpler for us personally.

It's the way some who are rich may remember when they were poor and their marriages were "better". Or the way some feel that while they ma have the job they worked years to get, in some ways they were better off back in the day.

And some will understand with what I am saying and some will argue and say they will never be that way.... I argued I would never be nostalgic, but I found as I got closer to 40 and had my health scare, a marriage followed very fastly with a divorce, a remarriage, seeing a son that was 11 yrs old for the first time and then having him tell me to fuck off, losing my recovery dog, going to school and then losing my financial aid and working with addicts... all within the last 5 years... I'm nostalgic for the old days that seemed better.... Were they really? Probably not. I just had different problems then.

"Old bitter fucking farts, get over it and yourself"

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Glory's Sun

actually pan I have nothing against you at all.. I just get tired of opening up every thread on sports and seeing "bring back the old days! bring back players who gave a shit!"

there are plenty of players today who do give a shit. you say you have love for Manny because he's an ex Indian.. guess what? He left Cleveland to go to the money..he left Boston to go somewhere hoping his options for $20 million a year would be picked up. This is exactly what you are ranting against.

The Boston organization and others have decided to go against this trend and they continually hone and develop their farm team.

I have no issues with being in love with players that you grew up with.. but sit down and really watch the game today.. without the blinders of business or nostalgia and you'll find that the beauty is still there.

and you know better than this. I have no feelings of some control. I called you bitter. that's not a personal attack..it's an attack on how you feel about the game. you can degrade my opinions all you want. So please, stop the veiled attacks and the martyr syndrome, and try to see the game for what it really is..

djtestudo

My dad gets this way, when an old Oriole or Baltimore Colt player dies, and he starts talking about how great they were. Or last year when the Wizards honored Baltimore Bullet Earl Monroe, and he tried to tell me about The Pearl, but couldn't find any words.

I love that.

I'll be saying the same thing about Ray Lewis and Brian Roberts one day.

__________________
"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

pan6467

And you missed the whole point of the last part of my last post..... why?

I give up trying to explain. But that part that DJ quoted and you seemed to just miss.... was very therapeutic for me. Guess I needed to get it out. Been through a lot in the last 5 years, tends to make one nostalgic, you know when life seemed simpler and easier.... wasn't but seems that way at times.

I could have saved hundreds doing that post instead of going to a shrink and in the end having him tell me the reason why my mom tried to commit suicide when she was pregnant with me was to try to kill me and I have never felt adequate since.

Stopped going after that.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Fotzlid

I got tickets for game 2 of the Sox-Rays in Tampa.
This will be the first time I've been in a ballpark other than Fenway.
Paid a monsterous mark-up for the seats but what the hell...
Can't wait.

Glory's Sun

damn you Fotzlid!

you got the good game though.. hopefully your ticket prices will be met with a Red Sox victory

Ilow

Should be a hell of a game. This is as close to a make or break game as a game two can get. The Rays desperately need a win. It's done if they go down 0-2 with Lester starting game 3. Neither team's O looked particularly great. If Ortiz, Pedroia and Drew start to hit like they have the Red Sox should really click. The Rays seem a little tight, but guys like Pena have proved that they have enough talent to get something going, the question will be can they do it with guys on, and can they keep the line moving. I don't see them putting up cooked numbers the way they have been hitting.

__________________
"Religion is the one area of our discourse in which it is considered noble to pretend to be certain about things no human being could possibly be certain about"
--Sam Harris

Fotzlid

What a game that was. Too bad the Sox lost. We had seats 4 rows back in left field. I think there were 5 HR's hit in that area, though none came to me.

We were 4 rows back in left field. Fantastic seats.
Nice stadium too. I'm used to walking a maze to find the seats then having 345 people ask to see the ticket. At the Trop, we walked in the door and down a corridor and the section was right there. Nobody except the door person asked to see the ticket.

BurntToast

Where did all that talk about LA go?

__________________
The taint. Conveniently located between the snack bar and the dumpster.

Mister Coaster

Not much talk from Boston fans lately either. A loss from "Superman" Lester and they all clam up. Rays = Kryptonite!

__________________
If you have any poo... fling it NOW!

BurntToast

I will say that I have nearly passed out at times from holding my breath while I wait for the Phillies to blow it. That being said you have to admit we have shown ourselves to be a resilient team.

I know a Rays/Phillies Series isn't what everyone wants... but, if you listen to the guys in the sports radio business, if we win it will end poverty and violence in our city and suburbs.

__________________
The taint. Conveniently located between the snack bar and the dumpster.

Glory's Sun

nah the Rays aren't Kryptonite. Really the Rays are young and talented but I'm not willing to give all the credit to them. Watching the Boston hitters, they are being TOO patient. They aren't attacking the plate and Papi needs to really start using his lower body again.

The Boston pitchers haven't gone inside enough on these young hitters. They need to make the hitters move their feet and make them uncomfortable.

Boston down 3-1.. hrmm where have I seen this before There is a day off and then back to it. I wouldn't count out Boston just yet.. 3 out of the 4 teams to come back from that deficit are in Beantown..and they all have a certain color sock.

BadNick

Halx

This had to happen on my birthday

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[Don't Feed The Animals]

Glory's Sun

So the Rays are going with Kazmir tonight instead of Big Game James. I don't think I like the move. You have a rotation set up that is obviously doing well and then it's changed. It could also shake some of that big game confidence from James Shields. Tonights game is the most important of their franchise career and they go with someone else just in case they need the bullpen... I don't understand Maddon..

but.. then I'm not exactly complaining Kazmir hasn't exactly been lights out in his past few starts.. this may be just what the Bo'Sox need to get their offense on the right track.

BadNick

QuasiMondo

Wow, Boston's got a li'l bit of fight left in 'em. Will it be enough to force the Rays all the way into a Game 7?

__________________
Cameron originally envisioned the Terminator as a small, unremarkable man, giving it the ability to blend in more easily. As a result, his first choice for the part was Lance Henriksen. O. J. Simpson was on the shortlist but Cameron did not think that such a nice guy could be a ruthless killer.

-From the Collector's Edition DVD of The Terminator

Glory's Sun

that's a good question Quasi. I'm not convinced that Papi is Papi yet.. but I think what this does is give the Red Sox the huge boost that they need. With Beckett hopefully back to somewhat of a normal routine, I expect him to be more like his old self tomorrow. The Red Sox finally did what I've been saying all along and that was attack the plate and the pitchers. They fought off pitches instead of looking for help from the ump and it payed off in the end. I'm not a big CoCo fan but that was probably the best AB I've ever seen from him.

I wonder if these young kids on the Rays can overcome such a heartbreak loss. It took Boston until last night to get over Game 2. I guess we'll see just how Big Game Shields really is.

Wow is all I have for last night. To all the fans who left early.. fuck you you fucking sellouts.

QuasiMondo

On an unrelated note:
ESPN - Peavy has five teams in mind; Padres expanding potential - MLB

Am I missing something here? Why are the Padres so hot to trade away Jake Peavy>

__________________
Cameron originally envisioned the Terminator as a small, unremarkable man, giving it the ability to blend in more easily. As a result, his first choice for the part was Lance Henriksen. O. J. Simpson was on the shortlist but Cameron did not think that such a nice guy could be a ruthless killer.

-From the Collector's Edition DVD of The Terminator

djtestudo

1. He's going to start getting expensive.

2. They need a lot of help on that team.

__________________
"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

QuasiMondo

I don't like it. Sounds like they're robbing peter to pay paul.

__________________
Cameron originally envisioned the Terminator as a small, unremarkable man, giving it the ability to blend in more easily. As a result, his first choice for the part was Lance Henriksen. O. J. Simpson was on the shortlist but Cameron did not think that such a nice guy could be a ruthless killer.

-From the Collector's Edition DVD of The Terminator

djtestudo

Look at the Bedard deal from last offseason. Or the Santana deal. Both teams that traded their ace did well enough without them.

__________________
"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

Ilow

The answer to your question is yes. Now will momentum count for anything, and can the Red Sox win their 3rd straight? Conventional Wisdom says that Lester won't have 2 straight bad outings, but pretty much everyone is completely gassed at this point in the season. Look at Paplebon, he could barely get his fastball into the low 90's. Same goes for Garza, of course, so it should be a great winner take all game.

__________________
"Religion is the one area of our discourse in which it is considered noble to pretend to be certain about things no human being could possibly be certain about"
--Sam Harris

pan6467

Or the CC deal during the season...... the Indians did far better without him.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

djtestudo

I don't know if the emotion I'm feeling right now is excitement for the Rays or schadenfreude for the Red Sox...

__________________
"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

Glory's Sun

Looking back at this series, I'd have to say the Red Sox lost it, not the Rays won it. Now, I'm not trying to take anything away from the Rays because they played well enough, but Boston with the exception of game 5 and 6, just didn't look like Boston. Throwing out the injuries and Manny being gone (if either of those hadn't happened they wouldn't be home right now) I just think that overall Boston lost sight of what they wanted to do. They continually left men on base, they continually didn't execute the running game and they continually didn't attack the plate. Last night, Lester really only had one mistake to Aybar. The double that Longoria hit was just great hitting. Garza pitched well, but the Red Sox didn't help themselves in that regard either.

I'm quite interested to see how Boston retools for next year. They seriously have to consider getting some more power in the lineup, because frankly, nobody is scared of Bay or Youk like they are scared of Manny.

The world series won't be as good with the current matchup, but I'll be rooting for the Rays for 2 reasons. 1. Baldelli - he grew up in New England and was (and probably still is) a Red Sox fan. 2. Pena - he also moved to Boston at a young age and played high school ball there.. so I guess if Tampa wins it, in some small non-redeeming way, hardware gets to stay in Boston.

I guess now I know how Yankees fans feel. Supposed to win it and we don't make it to the Series.

Halx

Is anybody else not interested in the world series at all?

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Glory's Sun

I watched a few innings.. I just can't help but feel that it would have been better with Boston in it.

and the Dodgers.

this is just one of those years.. where in the end..it doesn't matter except in Vegas and things will be back to normal next year.

*Theo is thinking about making a run for Peavy. Doubt he'll leave the NL though.

BurntToast

Your teams aren't in it, of course you don't care... My team is in it so I do care.

What is normal? Does normal mean either Boston or NY are in there for the AL?

__________________
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Glory's Sun

nah, normal would be that the rays would be last place

I get it... and it's a good story.. it's just from a ratings standpoint.. it's blah. It should be a competitive series and all, but I think it's going to lack that excitement. :shrug:

BurntToast

I understand the ratings thing but damnit!!!11oneone I have been waiting since 1983 (I was 6 at the time) for my city to win a championship of any sort.

You can have your trophy back next year... just let Philly hold it for a few minutes.

__________________
The taint. Conveniently located between the snack bar and the dumpster.

djtestudo

I want to see who is the champion of the sport I love.

We know the Rays beating the Sox isn't a fluke. They won the head-to-head season series, the division, AND the playoff series. The Phillies were the second-best team in their league, and their previous opponent, as good a story as it was, was by record the eighth-best team in their league.

We have a team with a chance to be the first to go from absolute worst in their league to absolute best. We have a team with one of the longest histories in sports, with a chance to win only their second championship for a city that hasn't seen one (from a real sport) in 25 years. At that's just on the surface.

The World Series isn't about who's watching. It is about finding out who the best team is in the sport (with obvious flaws in the system), so TV ratings don't mean a damn thing to me

__________________
"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

pan6467

I was at work and I flipped to watch the last inning. I was mortified the sport I love has been fucked over. I can recall very few true "oops" calls in the WS, that truly affected the outcome of the game. There have een a few these past couple years but none more apparent than tonight's non call.

The one where Rollins clearly got hit by the pitch is the huge one. Add that to the non balk call of last night. And to me, who has watched baseball all my life, it says the games are either fixed or the umpires are truly bad at their jobs.

I have come to the conclusion that pro sports is fixed with that call. MLB now has instant replay and could have done something about that but chose not to.

NFL refs making "mistakes", NBA refs on the take and now MLB umps not making the right calls......

I truly have become tired of professional sports. Too many scandals, too many refs and umps on the take.... too many games where the "mistakes" are so obvious it is almost apparent the game is fixed. Too many games where teams don't cover the spread and could have kicked that field goal in the final minute but instead ran the clock out saying it was "poor coaching and time management". Cough cough.... Browns vs Steelers... cough cough

Or a player who reported no injury, poked himself in the eye before a big game, with a division rival that is also without a win.Then all of a sudden, said player "is battling elbow problems from the game before that" and has missed every game since. cough cough Carson Palmer cough cough.... The annonoucers on the Cleveland radio network talked about it the whole game. Asking "how could someone knowing this was a big game poke himself in the eye and miss it."

Or a team that suspends arguably their best and most consistent offensive player due to his "disruption" to the team...... cough cough Browns cough cough..... there was no disruption, K2 simply asked why Phil Savage never called him in the hospital and that he felt like a piece of meat. Also, how many players get staph infection and miss only 1 game???????? Something is fishy there. Even Cleveland radio announcers on the station that carries the game are questioning why.

I wonder if people looked deep enough, if they would see huge bucks put on the Rays tonight.

I wonder if people look deep enough that they may find there is some money on say.... the Rays in 6 and by hook or crook the series goes 6. Dick Jacobs back in the 90's once stated about the Indians... "MLB owners actually lose money on the playoffs and WS unless it goes more than 5."

Maybe it's time for fans to really look into these sports.

I'm sure someone will rip into me for this..... but seriously, when even the fucking announcers point this bullshit out and nothing is done..... it all makes one wonder.

And the problem is, that the wonder is there. Not if it the games are truly legit or not... but that the fans wonder if the are.

I speak of what I know, I'm sure other cities and teams have stories very similar to those going on in Cleveland sports right now.

And I won't even touch what is going on with college sports.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

BurntToast

lol Pan... you missed the called third strike/check swing/appeal to first/walk in the early part of the game.

__________________
The taint. Conveniently located between the snack bar and the dumpster.

pan6467

No way.... what exactly happened and who benefited?

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Glory's Sun

yeah that third strike call was horrible.

Ok.. philly you can hold the trophy for a little while

if you get past Tampa.


Pan. For once I'll agree with you..............partly. Vegas has been doing everything they can to even out the odds because of the 100-1 chance that Tampa would win it. They stand to lose huge amounts of money. so in that aspect I'll agree.. the rest of it.. well we both know where we both stand on those issues

BurntToast

I forget who was batting for Tampa... but it was a 3-2 pitch that the ump called a strike on a check swing and then appealed to first base ump. He said no swing when a) he did go around and b) it was a called strike.

I think Manuel was a little too calm and lost a chance to get his team fired up. Yes he would have gotten ejected but that is nothing new for him.

__________________
The taint. Conveniently located between the snack bar and the dumpster.