Irishsean

I've been writing down ideas for this post for a week or so, if it rambles, bear with me. Also, I'd like to avoid flames about my lack of acceptance of the sexual appetities of others.

I do have some conservative beliefs, but I'm not a raving christian. I completely understand and agree with homosexuality for instance. If you love someone, it doesn't matter what equipment they have. If you have two consenting adults who love each other and want to try something people consider "deviant," go for it. The only place I really draw the line is when people can't make a responsible decision for themselves due to age or mental disability, or practices that end up with someone being seriously hurt.

One thing I don't understand is when people just go out and have "sport sex" for lack of a better term. Lots of people just go out to get their rocks off, no commitment, no thoughts of what could happen, just go out with the intention of fucking. Even if you use protection, there is still a pretty decent risk of something happening that you could regret. It doesn't matter if your a guy or a girl, bad things can happen.

I also don't understand people just having sex for the fun of it. I have once had sex with someone I didn't truly love and plan to spend my life with, and I've regretted it ever since. Other than the immediate jollies, I just didn't enjoy it. I couldn't let go and really express myself with someone I didn't absolutely love and trust.

In my opinion a lot of younger people are having sex too soon or too often, out of a need for the feeling of love and acceptance, and thats not a healthy way of going about getting either. What has caused this rise in the openness of sharing so deeply without any emotional significance or attachment?

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There are no absolute rules of conduct, either in peace or war. Everything depends on circumstances.
Leon Trotsky

ShaniFaye

If you're not of the mindset to be able to understand I dont think there is much anyone can say that will help.

People are wired differently...there is nothing to say that when you're 35 it wont suddenly click with you...but it might never. You might be one of those people that lives their entire lives with the belief you have now.

There is nothing to say thats right or wrong....if its right for you then thats all that matters. As long as you understand that not everyone in the world is wired the same way and you dont belittle them for their differences then you'll be good to go.

Sex means many things to many people...its about love for some...its a physical need for others....at our core we are animals...and sooner or later animalistic tendancies are going to surfuce.

I have no problem with the way you think...the only way I'd have a problem is if you didnt take your outlook on homosexuals and apply it to all things concerning sex...it might not be for you but it works for others.

There is nothing wrong with having sex for the fun of it...there is nothing wrong with having sex only with someone you love, its only wrong if its not right for YOU.

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Coppertop

Couldn't tell ya there. I've been in love with every woman I've been with. Well, thought I was at least. I am not against promiscuity for its own sake, it's just not something I've ever really engaged in. Why this is I have no idea as I love sex and can be quite kinky at times.

What exactly do you base this upon? How soon is a too soon? And how often is within reason?

Irishsean

I don't think you can put a quantifiable number on this, but heres an example. I know a younger girl who is now in a residential program who just turned 14. She is now pregnant, and has already had 1 child and 3 abortions. I don't think a 14 year old has had the life experience or maturity necessary to be taking such a huge risk.

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There are no absolute rules of conduct, either in peace or war. Everything depends on circumstances.
Leon Trotsky

adam

Much as I love sex, I have never had the desire for one night stands, etc. For me, sex is a part of intimacy; I don't have any desire to have sex with people I'm not going to otherwise be intimate with.

However, Irishsean, I wouldn't draw the line quite so tightly as you. I could imagine sex with people I wasn't going to marry, but whom I loved deeply and wanted to maintain an intimate relationship with.

Irishsean

Hmmm, I worded that badly, meant to say spend a good deal of my life with. Not everyone can be together forever, but I can't understand not wanting to have a relationship with someone your willing to share that experience with.

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There are no absolute rules of conduct, either in peace or war. Everything depends on circumstances.
Leon Trotsky

Coppertop

5 pregnancies by age 14 is quite extreme. This girl needs some serious direction in her life. May I ask where this girl's parents are?

Irishsean

It is an extreme case, but its not in the least bit uncommon anymore. I see kids all the time between my work, my friends that work with kids, and my charity work that are pregnant as young as 11, or have multiple kids by the time they are 13-14, etc.

As for where the parents are, I have no idea. I can't understand how a parent could stand by and let this type of thing happen.

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There are no absolute rules of conduct, either in peace or war. Everything depends on circumstances.
Leon Trotsky

jillian

i was 14 when i lost my bvirginity and was pregnant at 18... probably a little early but i wouldnt cahnge a thing... it just made me a smarter more responsible person

Irishsean

I think 14 is way too early to be making decisions like this. I'm not saying you should have till your 21 to have sex, but I don't believe 99% of 14 year olds are mature enough to make that decision.

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There are no absolute rules of conduct, either in peace or war. Everything depends on circumstances.
Leon Trotsky

Coppertop

It's all about education and parenting. It would seem both have failed this girl. Don't forget that there are plenty of 14 years old girls who are not pregnant.

Irishsean

Kind of got off topic here, lets get back to the main point, ie. why the rise in people jsut having sex for the hell of it, or why does sex not mean as much as it should.

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There are no absolute rules of conduct, either in peace or war. Everything depends on circumstances.
Leon Trotsky

Sugar&Spice

From my own personal experience, I went out and had sex for the hell of it because I was finally free from a jealous, controlling and manipulating boyfriend. When I broke up with him I felt liberated in a way. I could do whatever I wanted with whoever I wanted.

So, I went out met a guy and we hooked up. Was it fun at the time? Yes. I felt attractive and that made me feel good inside. I think for a lot of people going out and just having sex with random people makes them feel like they are wanted by someone else and attractive.

I could never do it again. I had always believed sex should be something more then just two strangers meeting for one night. There should be some strong feelings involved.

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-Speak your mind even if your voice shakes

DEI37

Sex for fun, is, well...fun! It's neat to go out to a party with my wife, have sex with four or five other women, and come home with her, and make love to her. There is a difference between the two. The best sex is with my wife, the others are just added fun. The additions aren't there because they NEED to be, but because WE WANT them to be.

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Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

wilbjammin

I've talked about this before, and I'll bring it back again.

We live in fundamentally disconnected times. We spend more time thinking about the images of ourselves than for ourselves. I know that sounds confusing, but the fundamental difference comes in the desire to rise to living in the spectacular. Moderation and contemplation have been replaced with immediacy for understandable reasons. The idea of living "hard" and to the "max" have become the dominant ideologies in this time, which is the opposite of finding a few things of value and making them personal. Our existences have never been more commodified, and this certainly includes sex. Sex as currency then leads to valuing more activity, more partners, etc... basically - MORE.

The tension between external and internal value structures tends to end with external structures winning. The once idealized moderation stance has been removed with the ideal state of living it up in the most extreme ways we can. The nihilistic stance of these times states that there is no right and wrong, just that people do what they want. Often, it is stated, "as long as it doesn't hurt anyone, it is ok."

Personally, I think most of the indifferent happy-go-lucky attitude towards sex stems from negative or dis-illusioning events surrounding sex. Seeing sex as a vehicle of power-over individuals, sex and how it has abused people, sex and violence, and being over-saturated with sex in the media makes it difficult to see sex in a spiritual light. Often, I can see that people will respond by saying that people who strive to see sex in a spiritual light don't get it because the meaning of sex is self-created and "sex is sex" or something along those lines. I think the argument can as easily be made that choosing to view sex in a minimalistic gaze is also a choice that has many drawbacks.

In any event, I do have a hard time with any argument centered around the concept that "we are just animals". Humans have vast intellectual capabilities that shape how events are view and create meaning, to pull that out of the equation when dealing with sex discredits what people truly are capable of.

I predict that the rise of extremities in sexual activites will continue in this post-modern era. I don't see any reason at this point in time for large numbers of people to revert to more traditionalist views of sex. I don't see any reason for large numbers of people to spend a lot of time re-examining what sex means to them and how to make it more meaningful spiritually.

Detachment has become a value equivalent to independence. There is a belief that strength comes from independence and not needing things from others in our culture. With sex, strength comes in the disposability of others. If you can throw something away, then you are better than it. In many ways, this attitude shows why we have such problems with sustainability, but that is another thread...

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Innominate.

imkeen

Bravo jillian! You don't hear about this outcome often enough. You made the best hand with the cards that were dealt to you, and it made you stronger. Too many folks cave or take the easy way out.

Again, bravo jillian!

macmanmike6100

first of all, nobody can say that one thing has lost its meaning. meaning is more than words, it's abstract thought. in one way or another, you define meaning, so what you think sex should mean is likely quite different from the thoughts of a teenager today.

sex is <i>fun</i>. what you need in order for it to be fun is up to you. the problem today is not teens who want to do it too soon, it's teens who want to do it too soon but don't know how to do it safely because adults would rather pretend the desire will go away than to admit it and talk honest, modern sex education with their children.

that also assumes that the parents aren't ignorant about sex themselves; not surprisingly, sex ineducation would appear to be genetic if we didn't know any better.

RedbeardUH

Anyone here who is interested in the topic of sex should read Michel Foucault's History of sexuality

Basically, pre1700s sex and sexauality was given as much thought as a good night's rest. There is no inheirant value in sex. But since today we live in a very sexualized society, what is the harm in enjoying it?

I have been with one partner for roughly 3 years. We are currently engaged and sexually active. Our sexlife has experienced hot steamy quickies to long drawn out passionate lovemaking. Both are great. Both have their place. The same is true about individual's lifestyle. There are some people who become pregnant at 18 (or even 14!) and wind up wonderful mothers. And that experience is positive and lifechanging. There are others who wait until marriage and only have sex for procreational reasons. This can be just as wonderful too.

I think the most important idea about sexuality is to enjoy it for all its worth. Regardless what you find enjoyable.

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He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you

-Friedrich Nietzsche

little_tippler

Wow wilbjammin, excellent post. I had to say something here because when you talked about, immediacy, disposability, detachment, it rings so true. I made a post a few days ago about the disposability of relationships in Tilted Sexuality, and it refers to exactly this. We're taught to be independent, individualistic, self-righteous, and told that there's always something more, better, faster, to fall back on if things don't work out. It's all too easy to lead your life that way and not think it out for yourself.

Back to the main topic of this thread, for me I do not wish to have casual sex as I feel it more than just physically. It's not a choice I've made, just something I cannot help. I have no confusion in my mind in regards to this. Some people clearly don't feel the same way, I can say from experience. For me sex is indissociable from intimacy/love. I know that if I had casual sex I would feel terrible and regret it.

I have to be honest and say I don't understand why people have casual sex, or just have it for fun. For me it can only be fun with someone I truly care about, and want to share that kind of intimacy with. Even if it's raunchy hot, I still need to feel something for them. Having sex with someone for a night then leaving would make me feel disposable and insignificant, not attractive. To be fair, other people are entitled to feel differently, as they have a different education, experience, personality, and so on. What's right for some isn't right for others.

Another thing I'd like to mention is how angry I feel to see ads about "safe sex" and the way that is also "advertised" in schools. There is no such thing as "safe sex". And I'm not just talking about getting pregnant. I hate the way most people out there think that if they wear a condom, they're safe from STD's, with a very small risk. That is a HUGE lie and it makes me mad.

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Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918