Question about fertilization - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

phunktastic · 10-13-2003, 07:01 PM

I can undertand that people would be paranoid. Having a kid is a pretty big deal especially when you don't want one.

But something I've noticed is that when people are *trying* to have kids, they can do all kinds of crazy stuff and still not get pregnant. Do it with her hanging vertically from the ceiling, thrusting all the way in after saving up sperm for three weeks on the mathmatically calculated day that she is most likely to conceive... and still nothing at first.

But then when people don't want kids, they could be having the most cautious sex ever. She's on birth control, he's using a condom.. all the sudden theres a 3 nanometer wide tear in the condom from where he opened the package and she's pregnant with twins.

It seems like people ("family planning" centers) make sex sound much more dangerous than it really is. Its supposed to be something fun and special.. but then there stuff like this (an actual quote):

Quote:

In our opinion, it is much better to have you protected then to have you exposed to diseases, unplanned pregnancies and even possible death.

http://www.condomhall-condoms.org/education.html

Death?? Jesus.

So anyway.. What are your opinions? Are people going too far in making it sound so scary?

phredgreen · 10-13-2003, 07:08 PM

absoilutely not. being careful (almost to the point of paranoia) is the cornerstone of preventing your penis from falling off. beyond the whole pregnancy thing, there's a whole cavalcade of wonderful diseases that could cause you anything from mild discomfort when you urinate to complete body shutdown from untreated symptoms.

yes, unprotected sex (no prophylactics, medical birth control should still be a must) with someone you trust can be a wonderful thing, but there are times when they don't even know what's lurking in their fluids. be careful, test like a motherfucker, and never assume anything.

this is your dick we're talking about.

Anomaly_ · 10-13-2003, 07:30 PM

I think family planning centers take sex very seriously for exactly the reason you described: those not wanting to have a child and being very cautious not to, can even end up having one anyway. Now think of all the people who just have sex recreationally and don't consistently use birth control--it's scary. The founder of Planned Parenthood, Margaret Sanger, created the organization partially because she felt the wrong people were having too many children (and no, this was not a conspiracy to encourage eugenics). So in conclusion, I don't think the message from these groups is overkill.

darkallaround · 10-13-2003, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Anomaly_
The founder of Planned Parenthood, Margaret Sanger, created the organization partially because she felt the wrong people were having too many children (and no, this was not a conspiracy to encourage eugenics). So in conclusion, I don't think the message from these groups is overkill.

in a nutshell, idiots dont know how to keep from having kids which they may not be able to support, so a stern message might have more effect on them.

Sledge · 10-13-2003, 11:40 PM

STDs have a reputation for fucking up your life. (As, incidentally, do babies.) I don't think there's such a thing as being too cautious.

analog · 10-14-2003, 01:09 AM

kevin spacey in Seven, paraphrased: "when you want to get someone's attention, you can't just tap them on the shoulder anymore, you have to hit them on the head with a sledgehammer"

idiots respond best when you make it seem life or death, or else they'll ignore you.

spads · 10-14-2003, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by phunktastic
But something I've noticed is that when people are *trying* to have kids, they can do all kinds of crazy stuff and still not get pregnant. Do it with her hanging vertically from the ceiling, thrusting all the way in after saving up sperm for three weeks on the mathmatically calculated day that she is most likely to conceive... and still nothing at first.

But then when people don't want kids, they could be having the most cautious sex ever. She's on birth control, he's using a condom.. all the sudden theres a 3 nanometer wide tear in the condom from where he opened the package and she's pregnant with twins.

I believe I can shed some light on this statement of yours.

Conscious partner choice and subconscious partner evaluation are two completely different things. Women may THINK the man they chose is what they want, but many times a woman's body refuses to become fertile at established intervals of sex. A partner not being "man enough" has nothing to do with ability to get pregnant.

As a particular example, pose this question to yourself if you're female, or your female friends if your male.

"As a woman, have you ever cheated? If so, did you do it with someone you had thought about cheating with before?

If you answered "yes" to both of those questions, here is another: Was your period late after it happened, even if you used contraception?"

If THAT answer was yes, you proved my point. Your body decided your lover was a better mate than your partner, and adjusted itself accordingly.

So, the reason these people don't get pregnant in relationships is because the woman has evaluated the man as an unworthy potential mate (genetically anyway).

Additionally, the fun thing about sperm, especially the sperm a man leaves in a new partner, is that it lasts from 3-5 days, as opposed to the one day sperm lasts in a familiar partner. Assuming 5 fertile days a month, this does is effectively increase the average females fertile days from 5 to ~8 (sex 3 days before the 7 fertile day time frame will still leave fertile sperm in her).

This increases your chance of pregnancy.

vveronica · 10-14-2003, 09:44 AM

well you guys for the most part can walk away, but us girls get stuck with all the nightmare which starts with the strip turns blue.

I guess I'm lucky usually those who dont want them end up with them and the ones who cant spend thousands to try and have one.. I mostly cant and I dont want.. wow a rarity.....

Considering how stupid people can be at times, it is not overblown... It is amazing how the sensations have made intelligent people animals. But thats what we are and it is the nature of things..

mattevil · 10-14-2003, 10:35 AM

people that are trying sometimes have problems with the plumbing while bunnie fuckers who are not taking precautions usually have good plumbing that'll sometimes fuck their lives up(or make them grow up).

erion · 10-14-2003, 11:51 AM

Then there's the next case. My wife and I were smart and responsible, and she didn't get prgenant until we were damned good and ready to have a baby. She stopped taking the pill, and eight weeks later her period was late.

People tend to talk about the extremes when it comes to making babies. There are times when it works out exactly the way you want it to.

What gets my goat is that, at least in America, in order to adopt a baby when you can't have one of your own you have to go through all kinds of legal wrangling and attend (and pass) parenting classes and get interviewed by parades of social workers and then maybe a couple of years later you can adopt a toddler. The people who can do it naturally get a free pass with a much more dependent lifeform as a result.

I think about some of the people who attended childbirth classes with us and shudder at the thought that they currently have infants in their care.

Jedbeck · 10-14-2003, 12:33 PM

I have a cousin that was born from a contraception failure. And I also have family members who can't get pregnant no matter how many times they try a month. It is the weirdest thing the way that works sometimes.

Not fair and just at all.

Dilbert1234567 · 10-21-2003, 12:43 AM

Take precautions you don’t need to have a baby this early in life i have 2 friends who are pregnant (er one already gave birth, she is 19) and the other is 15 they really don’t need it now. Of course the 15-year-old friend was using protection, the condom broke and the pill failed.

Any way they can fail but that is no reason not to use them. Use protection and it reduces the change for accidents.

phunktastic · 10-21-2003, 03:37 AM

See it makes me worry about how common that is? It makes me kinda scared to even have sex when I have it running through my mind that quite a few people know somebody who's had the pill fail and a condom break and ended up with a kid at 18.

skysooner · 10-21-2003, 05:39 AM

Having a baby is a very serious thing. It is a lifelong commitment, and personally I wasn't even sure I was ready when we had our first when I was 30. We tried for several months to get pregnant, but when we measured her ovulation it happened exactly when it should have. With irregular cycles, STDs, bad use of the pill or other contraceptive devices, use of a condom is mandatory when you don't want to have a child. The wife and I use the pill only now as if we had another child it would be fine. However we have had sex for 12 years whenever and wherever with the pill and the only times she got pregnant were exactly when we planned it and she went off the pill.

erion · 10-21-2003, 07:24 AM

I don't buy the whole 'the pill failed' line, from anybody.

When used properly oral contraceptives are 99% effective.
If your female partner is taking her BCP's the way she was prescribed to use them, there is a miniscule chance that something could go wrong. Combined with a spermicidally lubricated condom, the effective chance of conception while on oral contraceptives drops to .0072%.

That's right, Seventy-two Ten-Thousandths of a percent. It's less likely that the pill failed than it is the individual taking the pill failed to take it as directed.

I've had lots of sex with three different partners who were responsible enough to take their pills at the same time each and every day. After I had a comfort level with those partners, the condoms went away and we still had no problems. At two different times it looked like there might have been a problem, but the pill just skipped a period in both cases (this is a known side effect of oral contraceptives for women).

I say this an awful lot, but know yourself, and know your partners / potential partners. If you behave responsibly you should have nothing to worry about. I would never have sex with a woman who claimed to be on the pill before I verified she was using it correctly. Look out for yourselves, and consider the consequences of your actions.

Dilbert1234567 · 10-21-2003, 11:52 AM

It did not fail me, I’m a guy... any way it was a friend of mine in Canada, plus at her age (15) she is inexperienced and may have improperly used the condom. it is a string of bad luck they do fail on occasion, but they are over 99% effective, just because they fail does not mean they should not be used. And if you can double up on the protection, (DONT USE 2 CONDOMS) I mean use a condom and the pill, or when that new male contraceptive comes out use that as well. You can never be to safe, shit happens.

FallenAvatar · 10-21-2003, 12:00 PM

It's all about knowing how to use the protection. There are even things that can be done in the event of a broken condom. The morning after pill, some states have it others do not. No one should get pregnant without wanting to, and the best way to prevent it is to listen to your doctor, and read the fucking lables. There are people out there mooching off the rest of the country because they can't realize how to take the pills or use a condom. Some do it just because they want to mooch, to them I say. " Die.".

erion · 10-21-2003, 12:14 PM

Well, I didn't want to rant on the whole "15 years old is too fucking young and stupid to be having sex in the first place."

But now I've said it, and it is, so there.

BTW, that applies equally to males and females. Try to be a kid and have a life before you run any risk of making babies you don't want, can't afford, and will always resent in some dark recess of your soul.

10-13-2003, 07:08 PM	#2 (permalink)
phredgreen who? Location: the phoenix metro	absoilutely not. being careful (almost to the point of paranoia) is the cornerstone of preventing your penis from falling off. beyond the whole pregnancy thing, there's a whole cavalcade of wonderful diseases that could cause you anything from mild discomfort when you urinate to complete body shutdown from untreated symptoms. yes, unprotected sex (no prophylactics, medical birth control should still be a must) with someone you trust can be a wonderful thing, but there are times when they don't even know what's lurking in their fluids. be careful, test like a motherfucker, and never assume anything. this is your dick we're talking about. __________________ My country is the world, and my religion is to do good. - Thomas Paine

10-14-2003, 09:44 AM	#8 (permalink)
vveronica Psycho Location: northern california	well you guys for the most part can walk away, but us girls get stuck with all the nightmare which starts with the strip turns blue. I guess I'm lucky usually those who dont want them end up with them and the ones who cant spend thousands to try and have one.. I mostly cant and I dont want.. wow a rarity..... Considering how stupid people can be at times, it is not overblown... It is amazing how the sensations have made intelligent people animals. But thats what we are and it is the nature of things.. __________________ ...We find ourselves in a struggle for our very right to exsist... We will not go quietly into the night... We will not give up without a fight...

10-21-2003, 12:43 AM	#12 (permalink)
Dilbert1234567 Devils Cabana Boy Location: Central Coast CA	Take precautions you don’t need to have a baby this early in life i have 2 friends who are pregnant (er one already gave birth, she is 19) and the other is 15 they really don’t need it now. Of course the 15-year-old friend was using protection, the condom broke and the pill failed. Any way they can fail but that is no reason not to use them. Use protection and it reduces the change for accidents. __________________ Donate Blood! "Love is not finding the perfect person, but learning to see an imperfect person perfectly." -Sam Keen

10-21-2003, 03:37 AM	#13 (permalink)
phunktastic Insane Location: Dayton, Ohio	See it makes me worry about how common that is? It makes me kinda scared to even have sex when I have it running through my mind that quite a few people know somebody who's had the pill fail and a condom break and ended up with a kid at 18. __________________ "Relax, the world will spin beside itself and suck you in. With threats and hopes beyond compare"

10-21-2003, 11:52 AM	#16 (permalink)
Dilbert1234567 Devils Cabana Boy Location: Central Coast CA	It did not fail me, I’m a guy... any way it was a friend of mine in Canada, plus at her age (15) she is inexperienced and may have improperly used the condom. it is a string of bad luck they do fail on occasion, but they are over 99% effective, just because they fail does not mean they should not be used. And if you can double up on the protection, (DONT USE 2 CONDOMS) I mean use a condom and the pill, or when that new male contraceptive comes out use that as well. You can never be to safe, shit happens. __________________ Donate Blood! "Love is not finding the perfect person, but learning to see an imperfect person perfectly." -Sam Keen

10-13-2003, 07:30 PM	#3 (permalink)
Anomaly_ Insane	I think family planning centers take sex very seriously for exactly the reason you described: those not wanting to have a child and being very cautious not to, can even end up having one anyway. Now think of all the people who just have sex recreationally and don't consistently use birth control--it's scary. The founder of Planned Parenthood, Margaret Sanger, created the organization partially because she felt the wrong people were having too many children (and no, this was not a conspiracy to encourage eugenics). So in conclusion, I don't think the message from these groups is overkill.

10-13-2003, 11:40 PM	#5 (permalink)
Sledge Pasture Bedtime	STDs have a reputation for fucking up your life. (As, incidentally, do babies.) I don't think there's such a thing as being too cautious.

10-14-2003, 01:09 AM	#6 (permalink)
analog Banned	kevin spacey in Seven, paraphrased: "when you want to get someone's attention, you can't just tap them on the shoulder anymore, you have to hit them on the head with a sledgehammer" idiots respond best when you make it seem life or death, or else they'll ignore you.

10-14-2003, 10:35 AM	#9 (permalink)
mattevil Addict Location: Virginia	people that are trying sometimes have problems with the plumbing while bunnie fuckers who are not taking precautions usually have good plumbing that'll sometimes fuck their lives up(or make them grow up).

10-14-2003, 11:51 AM	#10 (permalink)
erion Psycho	Then there's the next case. My wife and I were smart and responsible, and she didn't get prgenant until we were damned good and ready to have a baby. She stopped taking the pill, and eight weeks later her period was late. People tend to talk about the extremes when it comes to making babies. There are times when it works out exactly the way you want it to. What gets my goat is that, at least in America, in order to adopt a baby when you can't have one of your own you have to go through all kinds of legal wrangling and attend (and pass) parenting classes and get interviewed by parades of social workers and then maybe a couple of years later you can adopt a toddler. The people who can do it naturally get a free pass with a much more dependent lifeform as a result. I think about some of the people who attended childbirth classes with us and shudder at the thought that they currently have infants in their care.

10-14-2003, 12:33 PM	#11 (permalink)
Jedbeck Crazy Location: Ohio, USA	I have a cousin that was born from a contraception failure. And I also have family members who can't get pregnant no matter how many times they try a month. It is the weirdest thing the way that works sometimes. Not fair and just at all.

10-21-2003, 05:39 AM	#14 (permalink)
skysooner Registered User Location: Oklahoma	Having a baby is a very serious thing. It is a lifelong commitment, and personally I wasn't even sure I was ready when we had our first when I was 30. We tried for several months to get pregnant, but when we measured her ovulation it happened exactly when it should have. With irregular cycles, STDs, bad use of the pill or other contraceptive devices, use of a condom is mandatory when you don't want to have a child. The wife and I use the pill only now as if we had another child it would be fine. However we have had sex for 12 years whenever and wherever with the pill and the only times she got pregnant were exactly when we planned it and she went off the pill.

10-21-2003, 07:24 AM	#15 (permalink)
erion Psycho	I don't buy the whole 'the pill failed' line, from anybody. When used properly oral contraceptives are 99% effective. If your female partner is taking her BCP's the way she was prescribed to use them, there is a miniscule chance that something could go wrong. Combined with a spermicidally lubricated condom, the effective chance of conception while on oral contraceptives drops to .0072%. That's right, Seventy-two Ten-Thousandths of a percent. It's less likely that the pill failed than it is the individual taking the pill failed to take it as directed. I've had lots of sex with three different partners who were responsible enough to take their pills at the same time each and every day. After I had a comfort level with those partners, the condoms went away and we still had no problems. At two different times it looked like there might have been a problem, but the pill just skipped a period in both cases (this is a known side effect of oral contraceptives for women). I say this an awful lot, but know yourself, and know your partners / potential partners. If you behave responsibly you should have nothing to worry about. I would never have sex with a woman who claimed to be on the pill before I verified she was using it correctly. Look out for yourselves, and consider the consequences of your actions.

10-21-2003, 12:00 PM	#17 (permalink)
FallenAvatar Psycho	It's all about knowing how to use the protection. There are even things that can be done in the event of a broken condom. The morning after pill, some states have it others do not. No one should get pregnant without wanting to, and the best way to prevent it is to listen to your doctor, and read the fucking lables. There are people out there mooching off the rest of the country because they can't realize how to take the pills or use a condom. Some do it just because they want to mooch, to them I say. " Die.". __________________ Fetch me the spirit, the son and the father, Tell them their pillar of faith has ascended.

10-21-2003, 12:14 PM	#18 (permalink)
erion Psycho	Well, I didn't want to rant on the whole "15 years old is too fucking young and stupid to be having sex in the first place." But now I've said it, and it is, so there. BTW, that applies equally to males and females. Try to be a kid and have a life before you run any risk of making babies you don't want, can't afford, and will always resent in some dark recess of your soul.