Miss Mango

I had a big argument with my mom just last night about this subject. Mind you, we get along famously, but we love to throw our views at each other because we learn from them. However in this subject we were both at opposite ends of the spectrum, and werent budging. Perhaps the two of us had very extremist views, even.

Ill attempt to convey her view, but I doubt I will accurately....
She staunchly believes that back in the day, say the 40s-60s, before the sexual revolution sex had a very special, highly exclusive intimate meaning. Naturally, it was private, because something so special was a topic to be reserved for you and your significant other alone. She believed that despite whatever impulses people may have had, sex was more genuinely intimate and special. It was built into the concept of love; you meet someone, court them, and if you love them enough, you may have sex with them. And that act is part of what defines the significance of the love you share.

I, on the other hand, am about as polar opposite as it gets; I believe sex and love are entirely different things. I also believe that the desire and instinct to peruse sex can make people confused, can twist their belief such that their lust is actually love. This confusion is avoided through better knowing yourself, which is assisted intensely by having experience. Accordingly, I believe that to be more emotionally healthy and mature, people should deal with sex in their lives before they they define their union, to make sure that things will work out in the long term. Meanwhile, love will still happen in time, regardless of the diminished sanctity of sex, and there is less chance to become confused.

She believes that I have been inducted into this belief by nature of my generations over-sexed media. She believes that marketing(such a powerful force..) has crafted my impressions, promoting the pursuit of sex in the place of love. She believes this erodes the importance of peoples love, and their unions.

I believe that she has been inducted into feelings of guilt and repression through her generations teachings. I think that her associations between love and sexs sanctity comes via propaganda, dogmatically ingrained by her times. I think that this view naively disregards peoples base instincts as humans, and doesnt work in our shifting gender politics.

Right.
So.... Where do you stand?
Is the current media oversexed? How special is sex? Does this devalue love? Does todays sexual liberation deteriorate or strengthen a unions strength, cohesion?

Willravel

How can sex be special when no one is good at it? A lot of people learn about sex earlier and become more capable of enjoying it because they understand it better and have a better familiarity with it. Where would we be without 9 1/2 Weeks and Secretary? Bored, that's where.

Glory's Sun

If anything, I would think the media has make sex a more viable commodity. People are able to express more views and opinions on sexuality than ever before. Taboo's are broken .. etc.

Now, on the other hand, one can say that the media saturates us with sex so much that we become numb to it, but given the fact that we have a huge uproar over a "wardrobe malfuction" on a tv show, I'd say that we are far from numb towards sexuality and still have a long way to go.. i.e. Euro TV.

Good call on Secretary, will

spectre

The only thing that has changed is the ability to openly talk about sex. When movies first started out, there were plenty of movies made that would get an XXX rating now. Ratings systems were founded that had puritanical rules regarding language, violence, and nudity.

TV regulation was much the same. Think back to shows from the 50s and 60s where they showed married couples sleeping in separate beds.

I've had this same talk countless times with a few family members, but my argument is always the same: the only thing that's changed is how much TV imitates reality, not the other way around. People were having premarital sex well before TV, TV has just become more realistic about it. I think that we're better served by the changes over the years because now we're seeing situations on TV that may mirror some situation that we've been in or will be in. This openness about sex and other formerly taboo topics makes it easier for us to be open about and willing to deal with topics that everyone knew existed, but were not allowed to speak about openly.

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Racnad

I think this is a myth developed to teach kids so they won't have sex. I don't think sex was any better then. It's just that those having bad sex never complained because such things weren't discussed.

In theory, sex should be better these days with all the information that's availailable and the openness about it. But I'm not so sure of that, given all the complaints people have of bad sex.

MrFriendly

I personally do feel that the media is far too over sexualized, and that sex is devalued in advertising.

I think that sexuality is something to be celebrated and explored, I honestly do, but it is also worthy of our respect and reverence.

I feel that because sex is just so rampant in media that younger generations don't quite understand that sex has serious consiquences if it's not given due respect. I'm tired of seeing young teen mothers on the train who've some how manage to spawn an entire litter of children.

You can say what you want about sex in this day and age, but the basic fact is that sex for a lot of people still has a lot of emotion attached to it. And the way advertising and marketing power portray sex seems to me to be entirely soulless.

People in marketing know that sex sells, and I just can't fucking stand the idea that they put a price on everything. I for one am sick to death of seeing video clips of pop music that's aimed towards young teens which is a bees dick away from being soft core porn.

I do think people should be free to talk about sex and explore their sexuality without having to feel guilty about it. But the media in my experience doesn't do that, certainly not in my country any way. The media does it's best to promote a certain way and aspect of sex. A certain way of how women should look, what men should find attractive, and how both sexes should act.

I'm sick to death of doing some quick channel surfing late at night because I just got home after being out with friends, and all the commercial stations (and buy that I mean non government run stations) are running are dating service adds directed at young single males and those fucking retarded "Find out who you should date by SMSing their names blah blah blah look at us we're capitalist whores"

So yes, in short, I feel that the media devalues sex.

I know that sounds a little ranty, and try take it with some gentle humor. But I do mean what I say.

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Plan9

Modern media would have us believe that sex is the fast food of the crotch.

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MSD

Sex is an action, it has no inherent value. Some put a price on it, some insist on an elaborate ritual involving liquor and dancing before doing it, some require that it take place during a relationship, some just go out and do it with someone else who wants to, and by my estimate 90% of the Internet doesn't do it and is bitter and pissed off at those who do.

The value placed on it is the byproduct of artificial morality instituted by those who want to control the thoughts and actions of others. Outside of that morality, it is what you make of it and you get from ti what you want to.

Ustwo

Sex = Children
Children = Genetic survival

The value of sex is the above, what we do with it is something else. It is because of the genetic survival which we are partial slaves of even when we don't think about it, that makes sex more than just an action like washing your car.

Many of our 'artificial moralities' is to preserve that genetic potential. You want your wife to be faithful and you are jealous if she is not, because non-faithful wives of non-jealous husbands had less of their husbands children and more of someone elses. This isn't HOW our evolution had to work, but its perhaps the most common way.

Lets say I'm a jealous early hominid and you are not. I'm banging your mate (and you don't care) and I'm doing mine but won't let you near mine. A good number of your children are now mine, and none of mine are yours. You are a genetic loser, goodbye.

This is a gross oversimplification but is the gist.

Its only with the advent of very effective birth control can we think of this is more 'rational' terms, but evolution takes far longer than the time we have had it.

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Plan9

No, I'd suggest you pretty much got it down pat.

The rest of it, as you said, are our own little games.

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analog

Devalue? Sure. It's portrayed as what it is, the relatively valueless act of humping and grinding (we're not talking about making babies, just bumping uglies) for animalistic pleasure.

Does that mean it actually always had "real" romantic, passionate, intimate "meaning"? Nope. I don't think it did. I think it was hyped and made unrealistic in the past.

"Modern media" hasn't devalued it, so much as shined a realistic light on it to expose our primal urges for what they truly are:

People like to fuck, want to fuck, and will fuck whenever they can until they, and their partner, are literally immobile. See the exploding rates of cases of STD's in retirement homes and communities.

Do you think the 60+ year old people there are getting crabs or the clap because the "modern media" has devalued sex and now they're finally deprogrammed and getting their freak on? Hell no. It's Viagra. But seriously... It's just that it's now being presented as something everyone does, which is something everyone knew personally all along, but was not admitted to publicly. Now it's publicly acceptable for your grandparents to get it on as much as they want.

Miss Mango

Our means of procreation is the same across the world. Given this, if things were so simple as Ustwos quote, then wouldnt we see much more similar sets of morals or ethics regarding sex across different cultures? Im no anthropologist, but I get the impression our cultural practices are pretty broad. I think it\'s a lot more complex we\'re giving credit.

Supporting that notion, I have sex for recreation *only* right now, and dont intend on having a kid for quite a while. All my friends are doing the same.
Heck, take a look at bonobo monkeys. Those are some randy bastards, Ill tell ya. They like to get down, and not exactly for making little baby monkeys. (monkey sex alert!)

Infinite_Loser

Bonobos aren't monkeys. That's like calling a dog a wolf.

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MrFriendly

I think you could interpret 'valued' in more than one way though.

Many cultures seem to harbor the idea that if a man is promiscuous he is some how more of a man. Certainly in western cultures there is this idea that men want to be seen as being able to attract sexual partners easily and this is idea is exploited in advertising all the time. "Use our product and women will flock to you from around the land".

I'd love to say the western culture I live in isn't so shallow, but the reality is, a lot of people do buy into it.

Yes, it's fair to say that sex is just sex. But I think it's important to keep in mind that we now live in age where there are many forms of contraception that allow us to have sex for pleasure without having to worry about the consequences.

Previous to that, if a woman were to have sex she would also have to accept that she may get pregnant as a result.

But we now live in an age where both men and women can be as promiscuous as they like without fear of repercussion. Although STI's are still something to be very mindful of.

I don't think saying that the act itself holds no value though. I'll cite cheating as an example. Now off course, you can argue that it's not so much the act it self, but the betrayal of trust. But the act itself constitutes the betrayal.

I guess it really depends on what value system you're looking at sex from.

I certainly don't think of myself as a prude. But a little part of me aches every time I catch the train and see some young teen from the outer suburbs with a litter of spawn. I mean, yes, that has been happening since the dawn of time, but, I do think finding out the affect the media is having on young teenagers sexual attitudes is worth while.

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Plan9

Or all those annoying T-shirts I saw at the end of high school.

"Sex can wait... masturbate."

I think he was merely illustrating the purely biological motivation for it and how, as you say, there are many different cultural norms that stem from this one rather simple process.

Not all combative martial arts are Kung Fu, grasshoppa... but all combative martial arts involve hitting an opponent using parts of your body.

I'm a bonobo and I resent that remark.

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Baraka_Guru

Desire, pleasure, and emotional bondship are parts of the equation. They make sex appealing. There is a reason why fruit is delicious: it helps spread the seeds around.

I think it is these parts of the equation that the media values or devalues. The general public has little or no interest in theories of evolution within the context of human sexual relationships. I have, but my interest includes the complexities of the human brain as a contrast to other animals that lack the unique social aspects we humans muck around with.

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Redlemon

I think your mom is right, but only to a limited extent. The period of time she refers to (the 40s to the 60s) was a puritanical anomaly. Prior to that, there were great sexually-forward and strong women in the movies, and I'm sure other stuff, but it's a bit early for me to remember where I read about that stuff.

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Ustwo

You would be wrong.

All are set up on those lines out outlined.

In fact marriage is almost a universal.

Bonobo's represent another avenue for sexual evolution. We did not follow it, nor did we follow the standard chimps method either.

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