McDuffie

Here is the problem with that. I didn't make a mistake.

If I failed to understand your sentence, it was far less likely that it was my reading comprehension skills and far more likely that it was your inability to communicate effectively.

So, I made no mistake for which I must admit error. What could I possibly admit to? Misunderstanding what you wrote? I misunderstood your brutalizations of the english language. How does that sound?

But that's an exaggeration, isn't it? Your grammar, syntax etc are pretty darned good. Most people online can barely put together a sentence into a coherent statement. You're pretty doggone good at writing. But that doesn't mean that I should have necessarily gotten that you were using simile and if I didn't get it that it could have only been my fault.

And it goddamned sure doesn't mean that I didn't know what a simile was before you quoted that ridiculous fucking dictionary.com for fuck's sake.

So no, I won't admit to making a mistake. I made no mistake. But you made a mistake in presuming that I didn't know what a simile was. I don't expect you to admit to that anytime soon.

Willravel

Translation: I can't be wrong.
Translation: Even if I was wrong, it was your fault.
People misunderstand people all the time. I misunderstand people, you misunderstand people. The difference is: most people ask for clairification. You didn't. You assumed I was wrong, and then tried to correct me. The "erronius information is erronius information" thing is what told me this guy isn't seeking clairification, he's condescending. You simply don't understand what a simile is. There's nothing wrong with that. I'm a product of the California school system, so I'm well aware of how little people can understand simple schoolastic information. I'm sure some people that graduated with me from high school still don't know what a preposition is or how to use it.
All you had to do was ask. I would have said, "Oh yes, I didn't intend to communicate that your hypothetical cousin and half sibling share the exact same relation to you, what I meant is that they are both of close relations to you," or something. I probably still would have used the word 'simile' in there, because it does have everything to do with the misunderstanding, bit I wouldn't have condescended at all. I'm actually freakishly easy to get along with 99.999% of the time.
Everyone else here seems to understand it was used as a simile. I don't know how old they are compared to you, and thus their opinions might be equally as invalid as mine because they're younger than you, but that does mean something.
Actually, I didn't really expect you to apologize or admist your mistake or anything. I just expected it to dwindle into nothing in a few posts, then we could move back to cousins and such. That didn't happen. You got mad (or at the very, very least rude, whatever).

I still am not sure you know what a simile is, but is that really something so important? Nope. If I went around the internet correcting people's grammar, I'd be an asshole, and I do have a job and a family and a beagle.

Intense1

Regarding ShaniFaye's post on biblical interfamilial marriage:

In the NT, Elizabeth and Zachariah (the parents of John the Baptist) were cousins (not known how close their family ties were), and even Joseph and Mary (Jesus' "father" and mother) were in the same family.

First cousins marrying is not expressly forbidden in scripture - but it is in many laws of many states and many countries.

(still hoping we can keep this thread going.....

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McDuffie

That isn't so. If you care to scroll through my history on this very forum, you will see an instance in which I admitted to being wrong with no encouragement from anyone. As soon as I received the correct information, I logged back into this forum, in fact, it was months later, and I admitted to my error.

If you go to my usual online hangout www.iidb.org you will find dozens of examples of me admitting to mistakes.

Sorry pal. That one doesn't work with me at all. I am one of those internet oddballs who prefers to be corrected when wrong.

Ask what? Despite your protestations, nothing in your post would lead one to think that you meant it as a simile.
Either that or most of the people here don't give a fuck and those who do are jumping to your side of it because of the "style over substance" fallacy or because they "know" you or both.

...and now that you've taken that so far out of context that it isn't recognizable as anything I have ever thought, much less said or written.

What mistake am I supposed to admit to? Really. What mistake did I make?

Now that I know how old you are, I know for an absolute fact that I knew what a simile was when you were shitting in your diapers.

As I said, I had (some) formal education in writing. I was going to be a journalist until I discovered that journalists don't make too damn much, on average. It's a fairly flooded market, or at least it was in the late eighties/early nineties.

Willravel

Pecimism is what stopped you from asking. You assumed I was an idiot instead of assuming there was a misunderstanding.
Do you mean style over substance? Just because you use the 'f' word or because I have over 5,000 posts on TFP doesn't mean there is a conspiracy to prove you wrong. People disagree with me here constantly. It's part of what keeps me coming back.
I'm not typing for you when you say things like:
Age ain't nothing but a number.
The only real mistake was going completly nuts. I don't care about the other stuff, but when people start cursing at each other on here, a little bit of TFP dies. That's not what this place is about.
Again, age is irrelevent (after a certian point, I don't expect my 3 year old daughter to know what a simile is). If I were to say, "Yes, but the word simile meant something different during the time of the dinosaurs", it would be completly meaningless.
I write screenplays for fun, but that really doesn't mean too much I'm sure. All I really need is a high school diploma. Shit, I'm horrible at spelling, my syntax leaves much to be desired, and I end sentences with prepositions all the time (where my dogs at?).

Intense1

Ok, I've tried to keep this thread going by actually posting and answering posts THAT WERE ACTUALLY RELATED TO THE TOPIC, but as you, McDuffie, have kept up your asinine little feud then let me ask you this: if you are so intent on having us view your "posts" on this forum, then why haven't you posted anything (other than a random post in October) IN OVER A YEAR?

You started this thread - if you want it to succeed then do what it takes to KEEP IT UP, instead of embarking on these petty little word games. I don't give a rat's red ass how old you are (I'm 44, and you?), but if you insist on THREADJACKING YOUR OWN DAMNED THREAD, then at least have the balls to step out and let those of us who are interested in the topic discuss the subject at hand!

And Willravel - you know better than this! He's just baiting you. Empty your personal message space, dude.

Honestly, you'd think a couple of 10 year old boys were on this forum!!!

Hummph!

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TexanAvenger

I'm going to butt into the threadjack, in the sincere hope that I can make a small derail back onto the question discussed in the OP, and not the ensuing asshollery. (Of which, while I disagree with willravel on the OP, I back him on most his self-defense)

Really, it's the wrongness you attribute to it that I take opposition to. I haven't a cousin that I would consider having sex with, but I don't feel that it would inherently wrong for me to do so. If I got a 'yucky' feeling about it, it'd be because I can't find a man attractive unless he is brutally so, and they're all either pasty, unwashed, nintendo fanboys (not my thing) or under 5 (very much not my thing).

There're many cultures that allow marriages and unions between first cousins. I know for a fact that among the Yanomama in South America, marriage and sexual unions between cross cousins (children of either the maternal uncle or the paternal aunt. Other cousins are treated as brothers or sisters, and thus amount to sibling incest.) is the most preferred form of marriage.

The idea of wrong feels centered in a moral/ethnocentric doctrine for me, be it religious or no. Thus, I feel this isn't an issue over which a blanket statement, such as the one you're providing, can be placed. To state that another culture allows a thing to happen does not mean that it cannot be wrong. People allow things they consider to be wrong just happen all the time.
Were this the case at hand, I would be less likely to attack your position on the wrongness of union between two cousins. However, among at least the one culture marriage between cousins is the preferred form of marriage... and thus your statement seems to come as an ethnocentric attack on other culture, namely those who either/both accept marriage and unions between cousins to be either openly acceptable (not immoral, and thus perfectly acceptable) or the preferred means of living.

Infinite_Loser

After a lot of thought, I had to go with zero on this one.

I'm curious as to who the two people who voted four or more are, though...

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Intense1

TexanAvenger, I don't see a belief that cousins shouldn't have sex as an attack on another culture as much as a personal belief that close blood relatives shouldn't have sex. I share this view, as do many who have previously posted. It's not a damnation upon culture, just a personal or familial value.

Thanks for the on-thread post, by the way!

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(none yet, still thinkin')

Willravel

Ethnocentric? Nope. I'm not aware of what cultures (even my own) accept or don't accept cousin/cousin relationships, so it couldn't be ethnocentric. At the end of the day it's really as simple as my thinking it's gross. The taboo I speak of is the limited one that I encounter every single time that I bring up cousin/cousin relations - which is almost never. Basically, I'm guessing based on limited knowledge and my personal feelings. And now the poll. I'm sure many people, maybe most people know more about this than I do. The only thing I really know at the end of the day is how I feel about it.

TexanAvenger

Attack was too strong a word... In fact, looking back over it, most of what I said could be boiled out to get to how I feel at the base of most topics:

I don't feel it's as easy to attribute 'right' or 'wrong' as you seem to be. I feel like this is a topic that, even if you wouldn't do it yourself, you ought try to keep an open mind about others doing it without attributing measures of 'rightness'... much like I think I understood what you've stated about your attitude towards homosexuality.

Willravel

Yeah, I'm still wrapping my noddle around the comparison between homosexuality and kissing cousins. I think I've been exposed to more homosexuals than kissing cousins, which could effect my ick factor. I've had dozens of homosexual friends all throughout my life. I can't think of any kissing cousins I've known.

Intense1

Doesn't this bring up the feeling that...ok, two unrelated gays can kiss, but no matter what, I cannot help but cringe at the thought of me kissing my cousin? It's not the same thing! I have a gay cousin - it's fine to think about him and his partner kissing, but the thought that he would kiss my brother is just eeewwww! Even if my brother were gay, it would just be.... eeewwww.

And I have a cousin who is adopted, my own age, but I have been raised and he has been raised in a family setting that we are FAMILY. It doesn't matter that we aren't biologically related, we are FAMILY. And family members do not do physical things with each other!!! (other than hug and eat enormous amounts of southern cooked food)

It's a value that is placed in families - some believe it's ok, some don't.

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(none yet, still thinkin')

Ch'i

Yeah. Relations with a cousin is just... a line you shouldn't cross.

I, too, am curious about the two who voted four or more...

Hanxter

ShaniFaye

Actually Mary and Joseph were first cousins. I've been trying to find credible statistics, but so far the only country I can find it to be illegal in, is the US, land thats only in some states. 19 States (*gasp* and many of them are northern states) allow first cousin marriage with no restrictions and another 7 allow it after a certain age or they cannot bear children.

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mixedmedia

Never had sex with a first cousin or any other cousin that I'm aware of, but I did "play around" with one cousin one summer when I was about 10, I think....it gave me the icks then and it gives me the icks now. But I just couldn't help myself, I guess, eh-heh. I was a very curious child.

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yournamehere

You obviously have never seen my cousin!

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ngdawg

That was me....first cousins share one or less set of grandparents, ie: their parents are siblings or half-siblings. You 'corrected' me by stating the same thing. Second cousins share great-grandparents, ie; their parents are first cousins. For example: My cousin has kids, I have kids, all those kids are second-cousins. Our shared grandparents are our kids' great-grandparents. I am his kids' first cousin, once removed and vice versa.

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Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

Viking1064

When I was about 22, my 15 year old cousin was really cute. She was adopted so she is not blood related to me. My friends were always busting me saying how they wanted her. I started to get the feelingshe had a crush on me. We were kidding around wrestling one day and she quickly kissed me on the lips. I pretended like it didn't happen and just continued kidding around. After that I never wrestled around again or let us get in a situation where something like that could happen again.

If she had been about 20 years old or so, I have to admit I would have kissed her back and let it go where ever it was headed.

TexanAvenger

I'm not relating the homosexuality and kissing cousins, save that I think people should keep an open mind about other people being both. (Which you clearly have with homosexuals) I could just as easily have used the example of a particular religion or like topic, I just picked up on homosexuality because earlier in the thread you hit on the feel of what I'm trying to get at.
I'm simply stating that I don't think it should be knocked as wrong by basis that you don't personally support it.

I do, however, recognize that your reasoning behind thinking it's wrong may have nothing to do with that and everything to do with your thinking it's wrong for anybody to do it, regardless of personal feelings toward the subject. In fact, your reasoning could have everything to do with another reason that I have yet to understand (your writing is often very good and complex, meaning I sometimes have to read through a few times before I get everything out of it). If that is the case, I don't have an argument against you, save that I think you're wrong for doing so, just as you think I am for my view. With that as the situation, there's no argument save the equivelent of a shouting match... which would accomplish nothing in way of argument and most likely cause feelings of bad blood, of which I've no wish with you.

I'm really not going after you so much because I think you're the most out of line in here, but rather because you're in opposition to me and seem to have the most coherent/well-thought-out opinions and can express them with more than a "Dude... gross."

absorbentishe

No thanks. All my cousins were men (much older than I).

Warlock!

I just wanted to say... this thread rocks!

And no, I've never fucked a cousin... or even a distant relation as far as I know.

We're not a particularly handsome family, tho...

Blackthorn

Roger that. This started off as some pretty interesting discussion but got way off track.

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tfpfreak

*Whew* I was just glad Mississippi wasn't brought up here...lol! Though I do know some first cousins that are married to each other and have 3 children together. And NO they aren't deformed or 'mentally challenged'. I still have to go with '0' myself. My philosophy... whatever floats your boat! That just doesn't float my boat though. Interesting points brought up in this post as well.

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m0rpheus

Number of cousins I have: 3
Number of male cousins I have: 3
Number I've had sex with: 0
Number I've wanted to: 0
Being that I'm not interested in having sex with another guy it's really easy for me to answer this one in regards to myself. As far as other people, I guess the ick factor would depend on how close you are/have been to that cousin.
Example, my mother's cousin lived with my grandparents, my mother and my uncles when she was younger due to her parents not being able to raise her themselves. As a result my mom has always referred to her as "her sister". For her to sleep with one of her cousins would absolutely raise the Ick Factor.

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World's King

One of my male cousins got married a long time ago... At his wedding I met his bride to be's little sister. The wedding reception was at the same hotel everyone was staying at.

A few drinks and a joint later.

I have yet to see her since. She was hot.

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Lindy

It is good to see this thread pulled back on to the topic. And special thanks to ShaniFaye for her succinct discussion of the cousin relationship, especially the "removed" part, which I had never really understood.

When I was sixteen I had a brief (and I do mean brief) encounter --President (at the time) Bill Clinton wouldn't have called it sex-- with one of my cousins, so I guess in the spirit of the times, I wouldn't call it "laid." At the time, I was quite the little slut. Why say no to my cousin, I hardly ever said no to any guy. Now we are both thirty plus and it is far away in the past. I bet that I haven't seen him in about ten years. I do remember that he was very well endowed but popped off in about two minutes.

This discussion reminds me of a science fiction short story about a culture or race that encouraged what we call incest as a way of "improving the breed" just like livestock breeders do. I read this maybe ten years ago, and it was in a second hand paperback that was already old and yellowed. I think that the title was If All Men Were Brothers, Would You Want Your Sister to Marry One? by Harlan Ellison, or maybe he was the editor of the collection, not the author of that story. Anyone here familiar with that story?
Where I grew up in southwest Kansas the Okies were always the butt of our jokes: Q. What is an Oklahoma virgin? A. An ugly twelve year old. (long pause) That can outrun all her cousins. Q. Why wasn't Jesus born in Oklahoma? A. They couldn't find three wise men and a virgin.

Also there was a song from the 1930s that touched on widows, cousins, divorces, remarriages, intermarriages, etc. called I'm my own Grandpa Who sang that?

Lindy

Wunderbar

nevermind.

absofsteel

wow same here.....

and a few more girls across the street!

auto,erged doublepost

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shadowfiend

I don't think I would view it as disgusting. If I have a cousin who's hot enough I certainly wouldn't mind. Maybe it's due to the fact that I'm not very much close to my first cousins. I am more disturbed by homosexuality and etc, as well as closer relation incest, such as siblings or half siblings. However, to me, I think I'd be able to accept cousin-to-cousin relationships.

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Jozrael

Why is homosexuality disturbing if incest (even a lesser form) is not? Incest degenerates the race as a whole, so I could see your reasoning there, while homosexuality does nothing to contribute to the gene pool, so it's as if they're in their own little world. Why discriminate against them?

Ourcrazymodern?

Mixedmedia: Being very curious is a valuable thing!
Willravel: I sort of thought you were even touchier than I am.
McDuffie: 2 1/2. While young and just for fun. Whoops.

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Willravel

Hahahah.

Halx

I have this bad childhood memory of getting caught naked with my cousins. It was that "show me yours and i'll show you mine thing" ...... I think.

....actually I think it was just me convincing them that naked is better.

I was ahead of my time.

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HoneyPot

No cousin booty for me.... Though I did have a huge crush on one...There was just something about his southern draw...haha

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Deltona Couple

OK...DUH... Going back and rereading I see where I made my misunderstanding...dont I feel dumb...lol.

On a side not, a little off track, but similar to the cousin-cousin relationships...
How does the majority in here feel about step-relations? In specific two parents with children get married, and the son of one and daughter of the other are hooking up. I have a spoiler that I will reveal later, but this is a true situation I had a friend in when I was in highschool with her. Let me know your opinions.

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Ourcrazymodern?

Even though the step-thing is outlawed, since it doesn't involve the genes, I wonder why?

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Deltona Couple

OK, well since there have been no other replies, I will give the spoiler. The good friend of mine is a girl. She had been daing this guy when we were in highschool for a year, and they were pretty crazy about each other. They had been having sexual relations (pretty much everything except actual intercourse) for several months, and on a weekend where she was cheering and he was playing football, her mom and his dad met each other. Both were single parents. They hit it off, and started dating. almost right off the bat they told each of their kids that they had to break it off with the other, because THEY started dating, and eventually got married. Now the two of them are still madly in love, but can't get married now because their own parents got married. Currently the two of them are living together. (they have been together now for almost 22 years, and have two wonderful kids)
But STILL the state of Texas will not let them get married, and they had to fight the courts in order to keep their kids! Sometimes I think the laws are pretty stupid.

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ratbastid

Yeah, that's TOTALLY ridiculous.

Fortunately, though, there was nothing intergenerational going on. If I fell in love with a woman whose daughter fell in love with my father--not only would nobody be able to marry anybody, but if we all DID get married, suddenly I'd be my own grandpa!