Did FEMA Fail Us? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

tecoyah · 09-02-2005, 05:45 AM

I am at a loss....and cannot understand how we could be so totally unprepared for what is happening in New Orleans. After seeing an interview with Ted Koppel and the head of FEMA....I was astounded by the lack of information this man seemed to have. He did not even know of the issues in the convention center....WTF?
While I do understand this is a MAJOR situation....I would have thought an agency designed to deal with this....would have been more organized , and effective. Five days into this....there is still no Operations Center....and the actual Military is not involved.

I would like to hear what others think of this, and if you think we dropped the ball.

ShaniFaye · 09-02-2005, 05:52 AM

Im glad you started this, cause I wanted to but Im so upset that it wouldnt have been coherent.

When I watched the head of FEMA last nite I just wanted to slap him....I knew about the covnetion center day before yesterday...how could he have NOT known? It was listed as an evacuation place.

I was telling Dave last nite...I remember Andrew, I remember Hugo (I was only one when Camille hit so I dont remember that one lol) I remember Ivan last year, and several others.....people were in those areas helping before the entire storm was even gone...its been 5 days and those people in NO STILL have no relief?

and this crap with no presence to deal with these assholes raping and pillaging pisses me off even more I heard someone say last nite "we arent arresting them because we have no place to put them" bull fucking shit its not like those punks need a hilton to be incarcerated in.

Im so upset by the lack of everything I dont really even know how to put it all into words

Redlemon · 09-02-2005, 06:03 AM

I'm going to repost this from another thread. Check out the opinion article Destroying FEMA, from the Washington Post:

Quote:

By Eric Holdeman

SEATTLE -- In the days to come, as the nation and the people along the Gulf Coast work to cope with the disastrous aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, we will be reminded anew, how important it is to have a federal agency capable of dealing with natural catastrophes of this sort. This is an immense human tragedy, one that will work hardship on millions of people. It is beyond the capabilities of state and local government to deal with. It requires a national response.

Which makes it all the more difficult to understand why, at this moment, the country's premier agency for dealing with such events -- FEMA -- is being, in effect, systematically downgraded and all but dismantled by the Department of Homeland Security.

Apparently homeland security now consists almost entirely of protection against terrorist acts. How else to explain why the Federal Emergency Management Agency will no longer be responsible for disaster preparedness? Given our country's long record of natural disasters, how much sense does this make?

What follows is an obituary for what was once considered the preeminent example of a federal agency doing good for the American public in times of trouble, such as the present.

FEMA was born in 1979, the offspring of a number of federal agencies that had been functioning in an independent and uncoordinated manner to protect the country against natural disasters and nuclear holocaust. In its early years FEMA grew and matured, with formal programs being developed to respond to large-scale disasters and with extensive planning for what is called "continuity of government."

The creation of the federal agency encouraged states, counties and cities to convert from their civil defense organizations and also to establish emergency management agencies to do the requisite planning for disasters. Over time, a philosophy of "all-hazards disaster preparedness" was developed that sought to conserve resources by producing single plans that were applicable to many types of events.

But it was Hurricane Andrew, which hit Florida in 1992, that really energized FEMA. The year after that catastrophic storm, President Bill Clinton appointed James Lee Witt to be director of the agency. Witt was the first professional emergency manager to run the agency. Showing a serious regard for the cost of natural disasters in both economic impact and lives lost or disrupted, Witt reoriented FEMA from civil defense preparations to a focus on natural disaster preparedness and disaster mitigation. In an effort to reduce the repeated loss of property and lives every time a disaster struck, he started a disaster mitigation effort called "Project Impact." FEMA was elevated to a Cabinet-level agency, in recognition of its important responsibilities coordinating efforts across departmental and governmental lines.

Witt fought for federal funding to support the new program. At its height, only $20 million was allocated to the national effort, but it worked wonders. One of the best examples of the impact the program had here in the central Puget Sound area and in western Washington state was in protecting people at the time of the Nisqually earthquake on Feb. 28, 2001. Homes had been retrofitted for earthquakes and schools were protected from high-impact structural hazards. Those involved with Project Impact thought it ironic that the day of that quake was also the day that the then-new president chose to announce that Project Impact would be discontinued.

Indeed, the advent of the Bush administration in January 2001 signaled the beginning of the end for FEMA. The newly appointed leadership of the agency showed little interest in its work or in the missions pursued by the departed Witt. Then came the Sept. 11 attacks and the creation of the Department of Homeland Security. Soon FEMA was being absorbed into the "homeland security borg."

This year it was announced that FEMA is to "officially" lose the disaster preparedness function that it has had since its creation. The move is a death blow to an agency that was already on life support. In fact, FEMA employees have been directed not to become involved in disaster preparedness functions, since a new directorate (yet to be established) will have that mission.

FEMA will be survived by state and local emergency management offices, which are confused about how they fit into the national picture. That's because the focus of the national effort remains terrorism, even if the Department of Homeland Security still talks about "all-hazards preparedness." Those of us in the business of dealing with emergencies find ourselves with no national leadership and no mentors. We are being forced to fend for ourselves, making do with the "homeland security" mission. Our "all-hazards" approaches have been decimated by the administration's preoccupation with terrorism.

To be sure, America may well be hit by another major terrorist attack, and we must be prepared for such an event. But I can guarantee you that hurricanes like the one that ripped into Louisiana and Mississippi yesterday, along with tornadoes, earthquakes, volcanoes, tsunamis, floods, windstorms, mudslides, power outages, fires and perhaps a pandemic flu will have to be dealt with on a weekly and daily basis throughout this country. They are coming for sure, sooner or later, even as we are, to an unconscionable degree, weakening our ability to respond to them.

The writer is director of the King County, Wash., Office of Emergency Management.

raveneye · 09-02-2005, 06:05 AM

It's a disgrace, IMO. So much for "homeland security". We already knew exactly what would happen years ago -- books and papers were written describing all the gory details, and they all happened exactly as predicted. Yet still we were taken by surprise. You can't really blame the average person; they're not disaster experts. But the responsible government agencies, at all levels, were fully aware of what was about to happen.

Bill O'Rights · 09-02-2005, 06:58 AM

I saw that. Go Ted Koppel!! He tore this idiot a whole new asshole. I will say, however, that he did have one very valid point. It's the Federal government. They can't do anything until the State of Louisianna, asks for help. That said...why were there not squadrons of C-130's, filling flightlines in Arkansas, Texas, Oklahoma, and even Missouri, loaded with food and water, fueled and ready to go? Prepare for the worst, hope for the best?
In any event, another thing that I've noticed is too many suits up in Washington, talking about how long it will take, how difficult it will be, and the cost involved in rebuilding New Orleans. That's a topic best left for next week. Right NOW, there are people in dire need of the basic essentials to survive. Food. Water. Medicine. Get it there!!

Daniel_ · 09-02-2005, 07:02 AM

I wrote this for anoter group, but it's just as valid here, so I'll post it again.

=================================================

I heard some FEMA spokesman interviewed on BBC radio today saying that the scale of the disaster means that they can't just rush into it, they have to carefully assess the situation before committing resources.

Bullshit.

Within 48 hours rescue teams were on the ground working IN ASIA after the Tsunami - having left from the UK on boxing day.

The US government displayed supreme arrogance.

The US Army engineering corps asked for $70million to keep the levees safe this year, and the federal government gave them $30mill - because The War Against Terror (or T.W.A.T. as it should be known) was using all the cash up.

In the Netherlands (another place below the sea level) they invested the equivalent of $20billion over the pat 50 years - their aim was to ensure that the area has no more than a 1 in 10,000 chance of being flooded by the sea once in every year.

The PLANNED defense level for N.O. was 1 in 200, and the government OF THE RICHEST COUNTRY ON EARTH failed to keep that going.

And now?

The cost will be about $20billion (they tell me on the BBC today) to repair N.O.

A US Army Engineer was saying it'll take them SIX MONTHS to pump the water back out.

SIX MONTHS!

It only took 2 days to get in.

Somehow I think the democrats will get in next time.

Daniel_ · 09-02-2005, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill O'Rights

I saw that. Go Ted Koppel!! He tore this idiot a whole new asshole. I will say, however, that he did have one very valid point. It's the Federal government. They can't do anything until the State of Louisianna, asks for help. That said...why were there not squadrons of C-130's, filling flightlines in Arkansas, Texas, Oklahoma, and even Missouri, loaded with food and water, fueled and ready to go? Prepare for the worst, hope for the best?
In any event, another thing that I've noticed is too many suits up in Washington, talking about how long it will take, how difficult it will be, and the cost involved in rebuilding New Orleans. That's a topic best left for next week. Right NOW, there are people in dire need of the basic essentials to survive. Food. Water. Medicine. Get it there!!

Bill - I listened to the Louisiana Governor on the BBC today saying that because Bush declared it a state of national emeergency BEFORE Katerina hit, there should have been aid loaded up and ready to fly as soon as the storm passed.

The State government apparently were shocked that the Federal govt had been so sluggish.

politicophile · 09-02-2005, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tecoyah

....and the actual Military is not involved.

In response to this tidbit specifically, there are very, very few circumstances where active-duty soldiers can be used in an internal capacity like this. National Guard troops can be used for policing duties, as can (I think) Coast Guard units. However, they would be required to declare martial law before the "actual" military could assist.

j8ear · 09-02-2005, 08:05 AM

While I suspect strongly that FEMA is lagging significantly, at this point I am inclined to place EVERY SINGLE bit of blame on that worthless sack of shit 'leading' the city of NO.

Ray Nagin has been completely worthless and unsuccessful in leading the city he was elected to serve. Now, and as is evidenced by the destruction wrought on his city, before this disaster, for which he and all of us KNEW the consequences. He has deteriorated into a self serving, career salvaging politician, unconcerned with his city, it's citizen's or the effects his failures have placed on the rest of the country, and solely interested in deflecting blame away from himself.

It's fun to blame someone, for sure, and part of the US psyche...but the federal government is not to 'blame....' yet!

Interesting, how the harder hit places like Miss and Ala, do not have similar grumblings.

/turns up his favorite 'hip' tune, and laments that looters weren't shot from the on-set.

-bear

stevo · 09-02-2005, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j8ear

Interesting, how the harder hit places like Miss and Ala, do not have similar grumblings.

I agree that it is obvious FEMA was not prepared to handle the residents of New Orleans after Katrina. But I also agree that you don't hear this out of the harder hit areas of mississippi. I've heard reports that folks in slidelle and Bay St. louis and pass christian haven't seen any FEMA, national guard troops, or red cross. But neighborhoods are looking out for eachother and working together.

Its a whole different situation in NO. The city is flooded, there are a lot more people there, most without the means to survive themselves. Its every-man for himself. The situation will probably worsen in the coming days as desparity increases and critical situations go beyond drastic. Many more people will die. Its awful. I really don't know what to think about it.

They said they were prepared to take 30,000 people in the superdome! The have half that there now. If they were preparred to take 30,000 folks, how long were they preparred to take them for? Just the night?

But the blame first goes to the mayor of NO and then the Gov of LA. When hurricanes are bearing down on florida, we don't see the federal government getting ready, we see local governemnts preparring and Jeb preparring/coordinating federal disaster relief. Apparantly the leaders in LA were not prepared to lead when this storm hit.

The federal government is acting now, and it takes time, at least a few days to get mobilized and involved. IF louisiana had come to the fed asking for help prior to the storm the govt would have been able to react faster. instead the fed sees how the state of LA couldn't handle the problem and is now stepping in and going to take over.

Its Louisiana's responsibility first and foremost.

ratbastid · 09-02-2005, 09:29 AM

It starts at the top. FEMA doesn't care because the Federal Government doesn't care because George W Bush doesn't care.

This is from the <a href="http://www.livejournal.com/community/ljdemocrats/">LiveJournal Democrats</a> community. It's now a few days old (it was written on Tuesday, three days ago).

Quote:

In September 1999, Hurricane Floyd -- a category 3 -- was bearing down the
Carolinas and Virginia.

President Clinton was in Christchurch, New Zealand - meeting with President
Jiang of China (you know, actually working). He made the proclamation that
only Presidents can make and declared the areas affected by Floyd "Federal
Disaster Areas" so the National Guard and Military can begin to mobilize. Then he cut short his meetings overseas and flew home to coordinate the rescue efforts. This all one day BEFORE a Cat-3 hit the coast. That is how you do it.

How about this dope's own father during Hurricane Andrew? Once again,
President Bush (41) -- August, 1992 -- was in the midst of a brutal campaign
for re-election. Yet, he cut off his campaigning the day before and went to
Washington where he martialed the largest military operation on US soil in
history. He sent in 7,000 National Guard and 22,000 regular military
personnel, and all the gear to begin the clean up within hours after Andrew
passed through Florida. 'Cause, you know, those people and their stuff was
actually where it belonged, rather than being used for insurgent
target-practice halfway around the world in a vain effort to make Iraq safe
for Iranian takeover.

In August of 1969 when Cat-5 Hurricane Camille hit roughly the same area as
Katrina, President Nixon had already readied the National Guard and ordered
all Gulf rescue vessels and equipment from Tampa and Houston to follow the
Hurricane in. There were over 1,000 regular military with two dozen
helicopters to assist the Coast Guard and National Guard within hours after
the skies cleared.

Bush 43 - August 2005 - Cat-5 Hurricane Katrina bears down on New Orleans
and the Mississippi gulf. Both states are down nearly 8,000 National Guard
troops because they are in Iraq -- with most of the rescue gear needed. Bush
is on vacation. The day before Katrina makes landfall, Bush rides his bike
for two hours. The day she hits, he goes to Johnnie McCain's birthday party;
and lies to old people about the multi-billion-dollar pharmaceutical company
welfare boondoggle. People are dying, the largest port of entry in the
United States (and fifth largest in the World) is under attack. Troops and
supplies are desperately needed. The levees are cracking and the emergency
1-1/2 ton sandbags are ready, but there aren't enough helicopters or pilots
to set them before the levees fail. The mayor of New Orleans begs for
Federal coordination, but there is none, and the sandbagging never gets
done. So Bush -- naturally -- goes to San Diego to play guitar with country
singer and lie to the military about how Iraq is just exactly like WWII. The
levees give way, filling New Orleans with water, sewage, oil and chemicals.
Ten percent of all US exports, and 50% of all agricultural exports ordinarly
go through this port. It is totally destroyed. Bush decides he'll end his
vacation a couple of days early -- TOMORROW --BECAUSE HE HAS TICKETS TO A
PADRES GAME! He goes back to the Fake Farm in Crawford, with every intention
of doing something on WEDNESDAY about this disaster that happened starting
last Sunday night.

ShaniFaye · 09-02-2005, 09:36 AM

ummm I hate to argue....but Bush did declare it before hand (or is this different? I cant tell because of the wording if state of emergency and federal disaster area mean the same thing....it looks like they both meant it would mean disaster relief would be sent right away)

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/08/....ap/index.html

Quote:

President Bush, as he readied the federal government for a massive relief effort, on Sunday urged people in the path of Hurricane Katrina to forget anything but their safety and move to higher ground as instructed.

"We cannot stress enough the danger this hurricane poses to Gulf Coast communities," Bush said as the storm headed into New Orleans and other communities. "I urge all citizens to put their own safety and the safety of their families first by moving to safe ground."

The president made sure the federal response would not be delayed by declaring emergencies in Mississippi, Florida and Alabama just hours after a similar declaration for Louisiana. Such declarations make federal aid available to assist with disaster relief, but they are rarely made before a storm even hits.

Working from his Texas ranch, Bush participated via videoconference in a large meeting of federal, state and local disaster management officials preparing for the storm's onslaught. Separately, he spoke by phone with the governors of Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama and Florida.

"We will do everything in our power to help the people and the communities affected by this storm," the president said.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,167240,00.htm

Quote:

Bush Declares State of Emergency
Sunday, August 28, 2005

CRAWFORD, Texas — President Bush declared a state of emergency in Louisiana (search) on Saturday because of the approach of Hurricane Katrina (search) and his spokesman urged residents along the coast to heed authorities' advice to evacuate.

Bush, vacationing at his ranch, was being regularly updated about the storm, which is expected to hit land early Monday, White House spokesman Scott McClellan said.

Officials from the Federal Emergency Management Agency (search) continue to coordinate with state authorities in Florida, Mississippi, Louisiana and Alabama, and have prepositioned supplies in areas expected to be affected, he said.

• Click here to track Hurricane Katrina

The president's emergency declaration authorizes the FEMA to coordinate all disaster relief efforts and to provide appropriate assistance in a number of Louisiana parishes, or counties.

Authorities told residents of low-lying coastal communities to head for higher ground. The storm was expected to strengthen as it crosses the Gulf of Mexico and could become a Category 4 hurricane with wind of at least 131 mph.

"We urge residents in the areas that could be impacted to follow the recommendations of local authorities," McClellan said.

Lebell · 09-02-2005, 09:53 AM

Someone said it in another thread: institutional inertia.

You want blame? There's plenty to go around.

Blame -

-People who ignore storm warnings and "ride it out"
-People who build and rebuild and REBUILD in areas that are designed for a disaster.
-People who spend money on immediate needs instead of preventative measures

All these things are in HUMAN NATURE.

If I were dictator, I would first start moving people from areas that are prone to disaster, damn the bitching. That would include major, read RECURRING flood areas, and areas that can't handle RECURRING storms. It would also include areas that are in the path of, I don't know, MAJOR MUD/DEBRIS flows from volcanic eruptions. Then I would dictate that new refineries and power plants and distribution systems be built to spread them out across the country so that a disaster in one are doesn't cripple 30% of their (refining) capacity. Then I would dictate a major shift in our transportation policy away from highways and into rail systems, like we did for frickin' Europe. Next I would work on city sprawl and make it VERY attractive to work within walking/biking distance and expensive to do otherwise. I would also make major housing projects (read highrise the size of the sears tower) to make it affordable.

Yeah, there'll be a lot of changes when I'm in charge...

*ZZZZZZ*

Whazzat?? Did you say something? What were we talking about again?

Bill O'Rights · 09-02-2005, 09:58 AM

Quote:

"We will do everything in our power to help the people and the communities affected by this storm," the president said.

When I first read this I thought; "You sanctimonious piece of shit."
Then, I got a cold chill, and thought: "My God...what if we are doing everything in our power to help?"

ShaniFaye · 09-02-2005, 10:01 AM

thats not answering my question though....the article ratbastid posted praised clinton for doing it the day before and said bush did nothing to get anything any place....both news reports I posted said he DID......and everything I've looked up on google says they basically did the same thing.....so I dont understand how people could say he DIDN'T get things in place......looks to me like FEMA is the one dragging their ass, not the pres

stevo · 09-02-2005, 10:01 AM

http://www.theunionleader.com/articl...?article=59834

Quote:

The Katrina response:
Louisiana gov’t fails its people

THE FIRST DUTY of government is to protect the citizens. Government can do only so much to protect people from a hurricane, but in the past week Louisiana failed to do even what little it could.

Shortly after Hurricane Katrina hit the Gulf Coast on Monday, Red Cross officials were describing their mobilization as the largest in the non-profit group’s history. Red Cross and other volunteers were on the scene even before the storm hit.

On Wednesday, two days after landfall, Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco was still trying to decide how the state would react. She had no plan for evacuating the thousands of refugees stuck in the Superdome, no plan for finding survivors elsewhere, no plan for handling corpses, and no plan for stopping looters. And we thought Gov. John Lynch was indecisive.

There was plenty of forewarning for this disaster. New Orleans’ vulnerability was no secret. Katrina was polite enough to telegraph days ahead and tell everyone when and where she was coming. State, local and federal officials have no excuse for being so unprepared. That Gov. Blanco, with all the resources of the state of Lousiana at her command, was shown up by the Red Cross and other charities shows just how slack the state’s preparation was.

After the waters recede and survivors begin to rebuild their lives, there will come a time to hold public officials accountable for their inaction. At that time, Gov. Blanco will have a lot of explaining to do.

Gov. Blanco had no plan, and is probably the most ill-prepared person to be leading a state in a time like this. Only after the level of despair was apparent did she order in Nat'l guard troops and a mandatory evacuation of the city. Where were these busses last week? It's not bush's responsibility to evacuate the people from NO, its the governor's. The federal government didn't leave the poorest of the poor in NO to rot. Their own governor and mayor did.

It is true there was an evacuation order before the hurricane struck, but that was givem by the mayor, not the governor. Had the mayor wanted to do more than just lip-service he would have acted with the state to ensure his citizens saftey. He did not.

There is plenty of blame to go around, lets just place it where it belongs.

add:
a quote from Blanco on the NO evacuation on the 28th of August, 2005:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gov. Blanco

While many people are still on the roads trying to get out of the city, trafffic patterns indicate that everyone who has the ability to leave New Orleans will be able to evacuate by this evening.

Way to help the little man, Gov.

ratbastid · 09-02-2005, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaniFaye

thats not answering my question though....the article ratbastid posted praised clinton for doing it the day before and said bush did nothing to get anything any place....both news reports I posted said he DID......and everything I've looked up on google says they basically did the same thing.....so I dont understand how people could say he DIDN'T get things in place......looks to me like FEMA is the one dragging their ass, not the pres

I guess what struck me about what I quoted was that the earlier citations, those presidents were in ACTION before the fact. Looks to me like Dub is doing a lot of talking--even now, five days later--and not much doing. Declaring the gulf coast a disaster area however far in advance it may be declared makes zero difference if it's not followed up by some actual EFFORT, you know? I know those articles you quoted talk about federal support being available, but... where IS it then?

Like, okay, he flew Air Force 1 over NOLA and said, "Golly. It's bad. Hey, Karl, look! I think I can see my approval ratings down there!" That's just not enough.

I grant that this is devastation on a scale we haven't seen since Galveston, but there's just a whole lot of hot air and vacation happening, and not bloody much actually being DONE.

ShaniFaye · 09-02-2005, 10:15 AM

ok....so basically what you posted is BS....cause he DID do the same things(and actually 2 days beforehand not one like clinton

)....FEMA IS the ones dragging their ass. (and maybe the LA Gov didnt do things in a timely manner anyway...from what I read its her responsibility to ask for the aid) What more is the pres supposed to do when he told them to prepare, FEMA did, supposedly...but then dragged their feet moving in?

stevo · 09-02-2005, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaniFaye

ok....so basically what you posted is BS....cause he DID do the same things(and actually 2 days beforehand not one like clinton

)....FEMA IS the ones dragging their ass. (and maybe the LA Gov did do things in a timely manner anyway...from what I read its her responsibility to ask for the aid)

she may have asked for it, but what about saving her citizens? What about plans for after the hurricane? I'm not blaming everything on her, but to say the cluster-fuck-that-is-New-Orleans is bush's fault is rediculous.

Even if you want to get into the funds that were cut and diverted away from FEMA and into fighting terrorism, that is the Dept. of homeland security's decision, where FEMA currently resides.

ShaniFaye · 09-02-2005, 10:24 AM

well stevo, I agree....thats why Im trying to understand why the non-bush liking people are bashing him for this. Im really trying to get a handle on what else he could have done...oh hell..what am I saying....non bush likers are gonna blame him if the fall leaves arent a brilliant showcase of colors this year.

Redlemon · 09-02-2005, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaniFaye

ok....so basically what you posted is BS....cause he DID do the same things(and actually 2 days beforehand not one like clinton

)....FEMA IS the ones dragging their ass. (and maybe the LA Gov didnt do things in a timely manner anyway...from what I read its her responsibility to ask for the aid) What more is the pres supposed to do when he told them to prepare, FEMA did, supposedly...but then dragged their feet moving in?

See my posted article up at Post 3: Bush crippled FEMA. So, who's supposed to help?

ShaniFaye · 09-02-2005, 10:41 AM

It still looks to me like for some reason FEMA delayed help, this article notes 100% funding for 72 hours...when was that 72 hours supposed to start?

http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=18478

Quote:

President Declares Major Disaster For Louisiana

Release Date: August 29, 2005
Release Number: HQ-05-179
Printer friendly version icon

» More Information on Louisiana Hurricane Katrina

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The head of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security’s Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) announced today that federal disaster aid has been made available to the state of Louisiana to help residents and communities recover from the damages and losses incurred from the onslaught of Hurricane Katrina.

Michael D. Brown, Under Secretary of Homeland Security for Emergency Preparedness and Response, said the assistance was authorized under a major disaster declaration issued for the state by President Bush. The declaration covers damage to private and public property from Hurricane Katrina that occurred beginning August 29, 2005 and continuing.

The action follows the President's emergency declaration of August 27 that released federal resources to help meet immediate life-saving and life-sustaining human needs and protecting property in addition to other emergency protective measures. Debris removal and emergency services to assist law enforcement with evacuations and establishment of shelters are also eligible costs covered by the federal funding.

Affected individuals and business owners in the parishes of Acadia, Ascension, Assumption, Calcasieu, Cameron, East Baton Rouge, East Feliciana, Iberia, Iberville, Jefferson, Jefferson Davis, Lafayette, Lafourche, Livingston, Orleans, Plaquemines, Pointe Coupee, St. Bernard, St. Charles, St. Helena, St. James, St. John, St. Mary, St. Martin, St. Tammany, Tangipahoa, Terrebonne, Vermilion, Washington, West Baton Rouge, and West Feliciana are eligible for aid.

The assistance will be coordinated by FEMA and can include grants to help pay for temporary housing, home repairs and other serious disaster-related expenses. Low-interest loans from the U.S. Small Business Administration also will be available to cover residential and business losses not fully compensated by insurance.

Federal funding is available to State and eligible local government in the parishes of Acadia, Ascension, Assumption, Calcasieu, Cameron, East Baton Rouge, East Feliciana, Iberia, Iberville, Jefferson, Jefferson Davis, Lafayette, Lafourche, Livingston, Orleans, Plaquemines, Pointe Coupee, St. Bernard, St. Charles, St. Helena, St. James, St. John, St. Mary, St. Martin, St. Tammany, Tangipahoa, Terrebonne, Vermilion, Washington, West Baton Rouge, and West Feliciana for debris removal and emergency protective measures, including direct Federal assistance.

Federal funding also is available to State and eligible local governments in the parishes of Allen, Avoyelles, Beauregard, Bienville, Bossier, Caddo, Caldwell, Catahoula, Claiborne, Concordia, Desoto, East Carroll, Evangeline, Franklin, Grant, Jackson, LaSalle, Lincoln, Madison, Morehouse, Natchitoches, Ouachita, Rapides, Red River, Richland, Sabine, St. Landry, Tensas, Union, Vernon, Webster, West Carroll, and Winn for emergency protective measures, including direct Federal assistance.

For a period of up to 72 hours, federal funding is available at 100 percent of the total eligible costs for emergency protective measures, including direct federal assistance. The 72-hour period funding at 100 percent excludes debris removal.

Funding, on a cost-sharing basis, is available for hazard mitigation measures in St. Mary, St. Tammany and Ouachita parishes. Damage surveys are continuing and more counties and additional forms of assistance may be designated after the assessments are completed.

Brown named William Lokey of FEMA to coordinate the federal relief effort.

Lokey encouraged those who sustained losses in the designated counties to begin the disaster application process by registering online at www.fema.gov or by calling 1-800-621-FEMA (3362), or 1-800-462-7585 (TTY) for the hearing and speech impaired. The toll-free telephone numbers will be available 24 hours seven days a week until further notice.

Registering on-line is encouraged due to the possibility of high call volume. If registering by phone, owners of commercial properties and residents with only minor losses are urged to wait a few days before calling so those whose homes were destroyed or heavily damaged can be served first. Storm victims with insurance coverage should contact their insurance company or agent before calling to report losses and, if necessary, to request an advance or partial payment of their settlement.

FEMA prepares the nation for all hazards and manages federal response and recovery efforts following any national incident. FEMA also initiates mitigation activities, trains first responders, works with state and local emergency managers, and manages the National Flood Insurance Program and the U.S. Fire Administration. FEMA became part of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security on March 1, 2003.

stevo · 09-02-2005, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redlemon

See my posted article up at Post 3: Bush crippled FEMA. So, who's supposed to help?

Right. The DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY controlls these funds. Not bush. The DHS is a cabinet-level office. This office took funds from FEMA, not bush.

FEMA still gets plenty of money. They are spending money year-round on hurricane-preparedness research. (I do some of that data collection). It hasn't been totally dried up.

This year's budget provides $3.6 billion more than in 2004 for DHS programs—a doubling of funding since 2001

2005 Discretionary Budget Authority:
$33.8 billion

What DHS does with it is up to them - not bush

tecoyah · 09-02-2005, 10:45 AM

And so....we go full circle. My question has nothing to do with Bush.....he did his job as he should have and made the funds available.....so where the hell is FEMA?

Ustwo · 09-02-2005, 10:52 AM

I'm not sure if FEMA failed or not.

I am sure that the government of LA grossly failed. EVERYONE knew of the possibility, and if I recall it came very close to happening last year. They were totally unprepared and are now looking to blame anyone but themselves.

It doesn't take great planning to figure out the equation of 'Urban Center + Below Sea Level + Coastal + Hurricane = BAD'.

ShaniFaye · 09-02-2005, 10:52 AM

of course it didnt have anything to do with bush....that doesnt meant somebody isnt gonna try to sneak a bash in!!!

(somebody needs to spank ratbastid

)

stevo · 09-02-2005, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tecoyah

And so....we go full circle. My question has nothing to do with Bush.....he did his job as he should have and made the funds available.....so where the hell is FEMA?

afraid of getting shot and killed in new orleans. They can't get in there because the governor fucked up. Helecopters can't land. Trucks can't get in. If fema were to get a truck in there it would, without a doubt, be like somalia. The armed gangs would hijack it. FEMA wasn't created to clean up a state's mess, they were created for disaster relief. The would have been able to help right away if the gov had a plan and there weren't tens of thousands of desperate people starving, dying, trapped in New Orleans.

FEMA will get in there when enough troops are there to provide security. The troops are going at the behest of the gov (a little late) and one of their US Senators (Thats not even his job!). The federal govt is picking up the slack and it takes time. precious time desperate people don't have.

Daniel_ · 09-02-2005, 10:58 AM

Everyone fucked up, folks.

The richest country on earth, and the poorest people in it got screwed.

viva capitalism.

Ustwo · 09-02-2005, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel_

Everyone fucked up, folks.

The richest country on earth, and the poorest people in it got screwed.

viva capitalism.

Care to explain how this would have been better under a non-capitalist system?

They have killed 110 million of their own citizens, so tred carefully before you answer.

Locobot · 09-02-2005, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevo

afraid of getting shot and killed in new orleans. They can't get in there because the governor fucked up. Helecopters can't land. Trucks can't get in. If fema were to get a truck in there it would, without a doubt, be like somalia. The armed gangs would hijack it. FEMA wasn't created to clean up a state's mess, they were created for disaster relief. The would have been able to help right away if the gov had a plan and there weren't tens of thousands of desperate people starving, dying, trapped in New Orleans.

FEMA will get in there when enough troops are there to provide security. The troops are going at the behest of the gov (a little late) and one of their US Senators (Thats not even his job!). The federal govt is picking up the slack and it takes time. precious time desperate people don't have.

Of course the main reason that the National Guard has been slow in its response is that many of the local regiments are off fighting in Iraq. Such are the consequences of using a force intended for domestic protection to invade a foreign land.

We do have a clear lack of leadership as well that goes straight to the top. It's sad that our president is such a petulant toadie that he needs to appear with his dad and Clinton to remind people what it was like to have a leader that commanded a modicum of respect.

stevo · 09-02-2005, 11:15 AM

yep. thats right. I forgot. its all his fault. damn. If only we didn't get attacked on 9/11 those people in New Orleans would have been able to evacuate. Bush sure did screw them over. He should have had C-130's in there last saturday evacuating the poor. but alas, they were used up in Iraq, and the poor people of new orleans had to rely on their super competant governor who had a wonderful plan for them all to be safe. I just can't remember what it was.

/sarcasm

Locobot · 09-02-2005, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevo

yep. thats right. I forgot. its all his fault. damn. If only we didn't get attacked on 9/11 those people in New Orleans would have been able to evacuate. Bush sure did screw them over. He should have had C-130's in there last saturday evacuating the poor. but alas, they were used up in Iraq, and the poor people of new orleans had to rely on their super competant governor who had a wonderful plan for them all to be safe. I just can't remember what it was.

/sarcasm

What are you trying to say? I'm completely flummoxed by this response. Do you deny that many of the National Guard units which would have been available for aid are actually off fighting in a foreign country, as has been widely reported? I'm confused, please clarify.

stevo · 09-02-2005, 11:31 AM

They shouldn't have been needed in such large numbers if the governor didn't leave tens of thousands of people stranded in the city. The governor knows how many troops there are in the LA National Guard. and she should have planned accordingly.
There are plenty of troops. They will get there. NO just needs more than they should have.

ShaniFaye · 09-02-2005, 11:40 AM

according to the research I did 78,000 of the 440,000 National Gaurd troops are overseas, that leaves 362,000 here. That means that we are only short a little over 17% of the national guard force. Is somebody going to tell me thats not enough?

japhyryder · 09-02-2005, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j8ear

While I suspect strongly that FEMA is lagging significantly, at this point I am inclined to place EVERY SINGLE bit of blame on that worthless sack of shit 'leading' the city of NO.

Ray Nagin has been completely worthless and unsuccessful in leading the city he was elected to serve. Now, and as is evidenced by the destruction wrought on his city, before this disaster, for which he and all of us KNEW the consequences. He has deteriorated into a self serving, career salvaging politician, unconcerned with his city, it's citizen's or the effects his failures have placed on the rest of the country, and solely interested in deflecting blame away from himself.

It's fun to blame someone, for sure, and part of the US psyche...but the federal government is not to 'blame....' yet!

-bear

I totally agree, if he had wanted to take care of the leaves he could have lobbied congress for money instead of dumping money into the pockets of the hornets. I have a few friends who have relative from NO and they say the city (except for the french quarter) is a crime ridden shit hole.

I blame local government, if they had force evac. like they were told to it wouldn't have been an issue. If they had improved leavies from the 1920 it wouldn't have been a problem.

I bet the media will make him out to be a hero

djtestudo · 09-02-2005, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locobot

What are you trying to say? I'm completely flummoxed by this response. Do you deny that many of the National Guard units which would have been available for aid are actually off fighting in a foreign country, as has been widely reported? I'm confused, please clarify.

What reports?

Exactly how many members of the Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama National Guards are over in Iraq right now? And what percentage of the whole of those three are they?

And also explain how it would matter if the troops going in now can't get in?

stevo · 09-02-2005, 11:46 AM

So did FEMA fail us?

-not exactly

They can't do their job because the leaders of NO and LA failed. period.

ShaniFaye · 09-02-2005, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djtestudo

What reports?

Exactly how many members of the Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama National Guards are over in Iraq right now? And what percentage of the whole of those three are they?

And also explain how it would matter if the troops going in now can't get in?

while I know I didnt answer this exactly in my previous post....a little of 17% of the total troops are overseas....

from what I could find 40% of MS's are in iraq and 35% of Lousiana's totally about 6000 troops

djtestudo · 09-02-2005, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaniFaye

while I know I didnt answer this exactly in my previous post....a little of 17% of the total troops are overseas....

from what I could find 40% of MS's are in iraq and 35% of Lousiana's totally about 6000 troops

Thanks, I didn't see any of that before. So, approximately 60-65% of the NG is "available" for service in those states?

ratbastid · 09-02-2005, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaniFaye

of course it didnt have anything to do with bush....that doesnt meant somebody isnt gonna try to sneak a bash in!!!

(somebody needs to spank ratbastid

)

Bring it on, baby!!

Look, here's the bottom line, for me: When I am the boss, if something goes wrong on my watch, it goes wrong on my watch and that's the end of the story. Doesn't really matter if I knew it was going wrong, or if I personally had anything to do with it. I'm the boss. It went wrong on my watch. That makes me responsible. It's a question of integrity and accountability. With (some, not all) past POTUSes, that was the way it was too. It's just clearly not the case with this administration.

I have more to say about this, but as tecoyah points out, it's off topic.

Yes, FEMA has failed us, but it's not just FEMA.

09-02-2005, 05:45 AM	#1 (permalink)
tecoyah Illusionary	Did FEMA Fail Us? I am at a loss....and cannot understand how we could be so totally unprepared for what is happening in New Orleans. After seeing an interview with Ted Koppel and the head of FEMA....I was astounded by the lack of information this man seemed to have. He did not even know of the issues in the convention center....WTF? While I do understand this is a MAJOR situation....I would have thought an agency designed to deal with this....would have been more organized , and effective. Five days into this....there is still no Operations Center....and the actual Military is not involved. I would like to hear what others think of this, and if you think we dropped the ball. __________________ Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

09-02-2005, 05:52 AM	#2 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	Im glad you started this, cause I wanted to but Im so upset that it wouldnt have been coherent. When I watched the head of FEMA last nite I just wanted to slap him....I knew about the covnetion center day before yesterday...how could he have NOT known? It was listed as an evacuation place. I was telling Dave last nite...I remember Andrew, I remember Hugo (I was only one when Camille hit so I dont remember that one lol) I remember Ivan last year, and several others.....people were in those areas helping before the entire storm was even gone...its been 5 days and those people in NO STILL have no relief? and this crap with no presence to deal with these assholes raping and pillaging pisses me off even more I heard someone say last nite "we arent arresting them because we have no place to put them" bull fucking shit its not like those punks need a hilton to be incarcerated in. Im so upset by the lack of everything I dont really even know how to put it all into words __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

09-02-2005, 06:58 AM	#5 (permalink)
Bill O'Rights will always be an Alyson Hanniganite Location: In the dust of the archives	I saw that. Go Ted Koppel!! He tore this idiot a whole new asshole. I will say, however, that he did have one very valid point. It's the Federal government. They can't do anything until the State of Louisianna, asks for help. That said...why were there not squadrons of C-130's, filling flightlines in Arkansas, Texas, Oklahoma, and even Missouri, loaded with food and water, fueled and ready to go? Prepare for the worst, hope for the best? In any event, another thing that I've noticed is too many suits up in Washington, talking about how long it will take, how difficult it will be, and the cost involved in rebuilding New Orleans. That's a topic best left for next week. Right NOW, there are people in dire need of the basic essentials to survive. Food. Water. Medicine. Get it there!! __________________ "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

09-02-2005, 07:02 AM	#6 (permalink)
Daniel_ Evil Priest: The Devil Made Me Do It! Location: Southern England	I wrote this for anoter group, but it's just as valid here, so I'll post it again. ================================================= I heard some FEMA spokesman interviewed on BBC radio today saying that the scale of the disaster means that they can't just rush into it, they have to carefully assess the situation before committing resources. Bullshit. Within 48 hours rescue teams were on the ground working IN ASIA after the Tsunami - having left from the UK on boxing day. The US government displayed supreme arrogance. The US Army engineering corps asked for $70million to keep the levees safe this year, and the federal government gave them $30mill - because The War Against Terror (or T.W.A.T. as it should be known) was using all the cash up. In the Netherlands (another place below the sea level) they invested the equivalent of $20billion over the pat 50 years - their aim was to ensure that the area has no more than a 1 in 10,000 chance of being flooded by the sea once in every year. The PLANNED defense level for N.O. was 1 in 200, and the government OF THE RICHEST COUNTRY ON EARTH failed to keep that going. And now? The cost will be about $20billion (they tell me on the BBC today) to repair N.O. A US Army Engineer was saying it'll take them SIX MONTHS to pump the water back out. SIX MONTHS! It only took 2 days to get in. Somehow I think the democrats will get in next time. __________________ ╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗ Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air, And deep beneath the rolling waves, In labyrinths of Coral Caves, The Echo of a distant time Comes willowing across the sand; And everthing is Green and Submarine ╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

09-02-2005, 08:05 AM	#9 (permalink)
j8ear Gentlemen Farmer Location: Middle of nowhere, Jersey	While I suspect strongly that FEMA is lagging significantly, at this point I am inclined to place EVERY SINGLE bit of blame on that worthless sack of shit 'leading' the city of NO. Ray Nagin has been completely worthless and unsuccessful in leading the city he was elected to serve. Now, and as is evidenced by the destruction wrought on his city, before this disaster, for which he and all of us KNEW the consequences. He has deteriorated into a self serving, career salvaging politician, unconcerned with his city, it's citizen's or the effects his failures have placed on the rest of the country, and solely interested in deflecting blame away from himself. It's fun to blame someone, for sure, and part of the US psyche...but the federal government is not to 'blame....' yet! Interesting, how the harder hit places like Miss and Ala, do not have similar grumblings. /turns up his favorite 'hip' tune, and laments that looters weren't shot from the on-set. -bear __________________ It's alot easier to ask for forgiveness then it is to ask for permission.

09-02-2005, 06:05 AM	#4 (permalink)
raveneye Born Against	It's a disgrace, IMO. So much for "homeland security". We already knew exactly what would happen years ago -- books and papers were written describing all the gory details, and they all happened exactly as predicted. Yet still we were taken by surprise. You can't really blame the average person; they're not disaster experts. But the responsible government agencies, at all levels, were fully aware of what was about to happen.

09-02-2005, 09:53 AM	#13 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	Someone said it in another thread: institutional inertia. You want blame? There's plenty to go around. Blame - -People who ignore storm warnings and "ride it out" -People who build and rebuild and REBUILD in areas that are designed for a disaster. -People who spend money on immediate needs instead of preventative measures All these things are in HUMAN NATURE. If I were dictator, I would first start moving people from areas that are prone to disaster, damn the bitching. That would include major, read RECURRING flood areas, and areas that can't handle RECURRING storms. It would also include areas that are in the path of, I don't know, MAJOR MUD/DEBRIS flows from volcanic eruptions. Then I would dictate that new refineries and power plants and distribution systems be built to spread them out across the country so that a disaster in one are doesn't cripple 30% of their (refining) capacity. Then I would dictate a major shift in our transportation policy away from highways and into rail systems, like we did for frickin' Europe. Next I would work on city sprawl and make it VERY attractive to work within walking/biking distance and expensive to do otherwise. I would also make major housing projects (read highrise the size of the sears tower) to make it affordable. Yeah, there'll be a lot of changes when I'm in charge... ZZZZZZ Whazzat?? Did you say something? What were we talking about again? __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

09-02-2005, 10:01 AM	#15 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	thats not answering my question though....the article ratbastid posted praised clinton for doing it the day before and said bush did nothing to get anything any place....both news reports I posted said he DID......and everything I've looked up on google says they basically did the same thing.....so I dont understand how people could say he DIDN'T get things in place......looks to me like FEMA is the one dragging their ass, not the pres __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

09-02-2005, 10:15 AM	#18 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	ok....so basically what you posted is BS....cause he DID do the same things(and actually 2 days beforehand not one like clinton )....FEMA IS the ones dragging their ass. (and maybe the LA Gov didnt do things in a timely manner anyway...from what I read its her responsibility to ask for the aid) What more is the pres supposed to do when he told them to prepare, FEMA did, supposedly...but then dragged their feet moving in? __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!* Last edited by ShaniFaye; 09-02-2005 at 10:20 AM..

09-02-2005, 10:24 AM	#20 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	well stevo, I agree....thats why Im trying to understand why the non-bush liking people are bashing him for this. Im really trying to get a handle on what else he could have done...oh hell..what am I saying....non bush likers are gonna blame him if the fall leaves arent a brilliant showcase of colors this year. __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

09-02-2005, 10:45 AM	#24 (permalink)
tecoyah Illusionary	And so....we go full circle. My question has nothing to do with Bush.....he did his job as he should have and made the funds available.....so where the hell is FEMA? __________________ Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

09-02-2005, 10:52 AM	#25 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	I'm not sure if FEMA failed or not. I am sure that the government of LA grossly failed. EVERYONE knew of the possibility, and if I recall it came very close to happening last year. They were totally unprepared and are now looking to blame anyone but themselves. It doesn't take great planning to figure out the equation of 'Urban Center + Below Sea Level + Coastal + Hurricane = BAD'. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

09-02-2005, 10:52 AM	#26 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	of course it didnt have anything to do with bush....that doesnt meant somebody isnt gonna try to sneak a bash in!!! (somebody needs to spank ratbastid ) __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

09-02-2005, 10:58 AM	#28 (permalink)
Daniel_ Evil Priest: The Devil Made Me Do It! Location: Southern England	Everyone fucked up, folks. The richest country on earth, and the poorest people in it got screwed. viva capitalism. __________________ ╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗ Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air, And deep beneath the rolling waves, In labyrinths of Coral Caves, The Echo of a distant time Comes willowing across the sand; And everthing is Green and Submarine ╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

09-02-2005, 11:15 AM	#31 (permalink)
stevo Rail Baron Location: Tallyfla	yep. thats right. I forgot. its all his fault. damn. If only we didn't get attacked on 9/11 those people in New Orleans would have been able to evacuate. Bush sure did screw them over. He should have had C-130's in there last saturday evacuating the poor. but alas, they were used up in Iraq, and the poor people of new orleans had to rely on their super competant governor who had a wonderful plan for them all to be safe. I just can't remember what it was. /sarcasm __________________ "If I am such a genius why am I drunk, lost in the desert, with a bullet in my ass?" -Otto Mannkusser

09-02-2005, 11:31 AM	#33 (permalink)
stevo Rail Baron Location: Tallyfla	They shouldn't have been needed in such large numbers if the governor didn't leave tens of thousands of people stranded in the city. The governor knows how many troops there are in the LA National Guard. and she should have planned accordingly. There are plenty of troops. They will get there. NO just needs more than they should have. __________________ "If I am such a genius why am I drunk, lost in the desert, with a bullet in my ass?" -Otto Mannkusser

09-02-2005, 11:40 AM	#34 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	according to the research I did 78,000 of the 440,000 National Gaurd troops are overseas, that leaves 362,000 here. That means that we are only short a little over 17% of the national guard force. Is somebody going to tell me thats not enough? __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

09-02-2005, 11:46 AM	#37 (permalink)
stevo Rail Baron Location: Tallyfla	So did FEMA fail us? -not exactly They can't do their job because the leaders of NO and LA failed. period. __________________ "If I am such a genius why am I drunk, lost in the desert, with a bullet in my ass?" -Otto Mannkusser