pan6467

This is the most pathetic display of government, how the fuck can our government pay hospitals for fucking illegals and turn around and cut health care benefits, take away any safety with bankruptcy protection ..... FUCK YOU BUSH.

GM's fucking #1 expense is healthcare and the GOP says "cut retirees benefits???" They would rather take away what rightfully was agreed to than FUCKING FIX THE GODDAMNED SYSTEM..... FUCK YOU!!!!!!!!!!

Give fucking ILLEGALS PAID HEALTHCARE AND WATCH OUR OWN GO INTO DEBT...... FUCK YOU.

Used to be the GOP complained how the Dems were too easy on the immigrants...... guess it's ok now for the GOP because they need the illegals votes and the companies that hire them for tiny wages.

Meanwhile, if I just go to the ER I'm in debt close to 3 grand and expected to pay it all back or my credit turns to shit and I have hate mail demanding payment..... FUCK THAT BS..... I'll just go in an claim I'm a fucking Canadian Illegal and I want the GOP to pay my hospital bills.
==========================================================


U.S. to Pay Hospitals for Illegals' Care By KEVIN FREKING, Associated Press Writer
Mon May 9, 6:07 PM ET



WASHINGTON - Health care providers can charge the government for emergency care provided to illegal aliens beginning Tuesday.


The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services issued final guidance Monday that sets up a system for reimbursement. Lawmakers set aside $1 billion over four years for the program, created by Medicare legislation passed in 2003.

For hospitals in border states, the additional money can mean the difference between running a profitable business or an unprofitable one, said Don May, vice president of policy for the American Hospital Association.

"I don't know if it will completely change their financial picture, but for those hospitals on the border, this is going to make a difference in ensuring they are there to treat the patients, not just the undocumented ones, but all the patients living in those communities," May said.

Two-thirds of the money will be distributed to health care providers based on a state's percentage of undocumented aliens. The remaining third will go to providers in the six states with the largest number of arrests of undocumented aliens.

The states receiving the highest amounts in the current fiscal year are California, $70.8 million; Texas, $46 million; Arizona, $45 million; and New York, $12.25 million.

Payments to providers will be made on a quarterly basis and will be adjusted proportionately if the bills exceed the state's allocation.

One group that advocates stricter immigration policies said the government's reimbursement of hospitals was the right thing to do.

"It seems to me that if the federal government has abdicated its responsibility for immigration enforcement, then it's responsible for making those jurisdictions whole," said Mark Krikorian, executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies, a think tank based in Washington.

link: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050509/...illegal_aliens

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

pan6467

Sorry this is NOT meant to flame but I am extremely pissed that our government is doing this and the GOP are the ones in power so they must be the ones to blame.

I cannot understand how ANYONE can support a party that is destroying the country.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

james t kirk

You're losing me on that one.

If you Americans had any balls you'd have a universal health care system.

Seanland

balls or brains?

but is it possible?

If healthcare in the States became universal, I can almost guarentee taxes would be shot up through the roofs.. poor people would become.. homeless.. the reason why alot of the poor citizens are in some sort of shelter is probably because they dont have universal health care.

whats minimum wage in the states? 4 something...
here is what? close to 7.. with the American dollar in the shitter.. that doesnt help either..

Seaver

I was able to put up with the cursing in the above post, but dont post crap like this again.

Seanland

Sure he said it harshly, but hes right......
If Americans were to get free health care, there would definately be some major sacrifices and problems created.

Do you think Americans Have "the balls" to make that sacrifice?

j8ear

First of all this was meant almost exclusively to flame. Don't start off by lying.

Second. This is not the governements fault. This is GMs fault. They caved into the shortsighted corrupt unions who demanded these "benefits" for every worthless sack of shit (just like the productive ones) who swept a broom at the plants...THEN they (GM) passed on part of those costs to us, and failed to foresee health care costs, as part of their growth strategy. To add insult to injury GM has been making SHIT, nothing but gas guzzzling SHIT for the last 20 years, hasn't even bothered to improve on this shit...and guess what is suprised when no wants their garbage.

Providing health care for illegals is another insane and FAILED liberal plank and a problem in itself. It is not an example of a just solution to the corruption, malfeasance, failure of corporate governance, and failure of liberal democrats. The effects of whom are NOW being seen in many of our indiustries in the US.

Stop blaming government and especially BUSH for all of YOUR failures. Get a grip, the phoney, crashed and discredited Clinton economy has recovered, all ecomonic indicators point in that direction. Take some responsiblity for your own actions. It's easy to go off on a swear laden diatribe blaming Bush for all your your woes...but guess what...it just makes you look like a lunatic. Well a liberal anyway. What's the difference?

As far as supporting a party destroying a country, I'm here to tell you that we have voted that sack of crap party out of the executive, and legislative branches of governement for that very reason already. Get used to it son, you are supporting a party that wants to DESTROY this country.

Frankly, I think those illegal immigrants picking vegetables, and doing all the other shit jobs we pitiful self righteous "natives" won't do deserve more health care then any $40.00/hr lazy union auto worker! If I had to choose one way or the other. Wait it's my vote and my tax money. I do get to choose.

-bear

Also...to my hoser brother. Keep on chucking it up with your universal health care up in the great white north. Don't ever forget that ALL OF your best doctor's end up in the US. Where they are appreciated, challenged and reasonably compensated. Don't forget also that your citizens who want to live also end up in the US for their care. Keep on bragging, hotshot. After you've become successful and have someones life on the line...we'll see where you'll end up.

__________________
It's alot easier to ask for forgiveness then it is to ask for permission.

j8ear

It would take cowardess and mediocraty to make it happen.

Keeping and maintaining the BEST HEALTH CARE SYSTEM in the world, as we currently have, will take balls. Especially with all the class war fare liberals out there endlessly whining about some non-existent "RIGHT" to live for ever without ever creating, or contributing a freaking thing to this world.

Don't EVER mistake universal health care with FREE health care. They are in no way similar. No way what so ever, as FREE HEALTH care DOES NOT exist....anywhere. Just ask the middle class Canadian who GIVES 65 cents of every dollar he makes to his government.

__________________
It's alot easier to ask for forgiveness then it is to ask for permission.

pan6467

It's bullshit, we CAN find ways to provide affordable healthcare without being too much of a tax burden. Sliding scales comes to mind. The fact that healthcare would be cut as an expense would greatly increase profits to companies like GM, the Steel industry, the Tire industry and so on, those profits in turn could be used to higher more workers, raise wages and build more factories.

To say taxes would go up and NOT recognize the fact that companies AND taxpayers would benefit is one sided and scare tactics used by the GOP to avoid fixing the system.

Federal minimum wage is $5.15 an hour in MOST states (a couple like Ca. have set I believe $7+ as theirs). Also, the GOP refused to raise wages while they voted themselves a pay raise, bettered their retirement packages and allowed companies tax breaks to move jobs overseas.

How ANYONE can support the GOP and keep allowing this BS to go on is beyond any reasoning I can come up with.

All I can guess is that the GOP and talking heads like Limbaugh give lazy asses the excuse to blame everyone else for their problems but let's not accept personal responsibility.

They'll talk about it but when it comes down to PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and helping the people it's easier to push the blame on others.

Limbaugh..... busted for drugs and doctor shopping "Not me", he says "I'm a victim of people playing politics" yeah... and your fat ass wasn't the one getting scripts from what was it 7 doctors?????? Then goes crying to the ACLU (whom he rips as being too liberal) for help. Course a couple months before he said we should deport all addicts to a desert island. And if a Dem or one of us did what he did, he would demand prison and lecture about personal responsibility.

O'Reilly..... busted for sex harassment "Not me," he says, "It's politically motivated and I didn't do anything." Yet he paid a settlement. And speaking of O'Reilly.... hmmmm Drudge had a clip saying he reaches 20-25 million a day.... where is this audience??? When his tv numbers only draw at most 3 million a day?????

Ann Coulter...... welll...... she's just a freakin head case

These great wonderful citizens tell their followers the GOP is their saviour but when an issue like healthcare comes up they scare and blame everyone else. Yet, they find ways to make sure their followers will be ok with OUR tax dollars paying for ILLEGALS while we go in debt.

I guess the ILLEGALS don't need to have personal responsibility like the rest of us huh???? Of course what does the talking heads of the right know of personal responsibility.... they fuck up, it was all political and they don't owe anyone any explanation.

Fuck it let the citizens go bankrupt trying to support the fucking healthcare system while we pay ILLEGALS bills.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Seanland

But whats the good of the best health care system in the world.. if you cant afford to use it?

US might have the best healthcare technologically, but their system is definately not..

yes, that was a bad typo on my part.

pan6467

I see it's ok for you to BLAME Clinton and the DEMS but tell others not to blame your party.

IT'S FUCKING BULLSHIT. The problem in this country is we are all blaming the opposing politicos but refusing to accept responsibility and demand true change and accountability.

And no I was not flaming if the Dems were in power and they said pay for ILLEGAL healthcare I'd be just as pissed and would have said the same things.... so don't assume you know me or my politics.

Unions MADE this country and deserve respect. Granted some of the upper echelons got powerful and lazy but that is no excuse for damning them as a whole.

As for the expense.... noone could foresee healthcare skyrocketing exponentially faster than inflation or the fact tha pharmaceuticals and the insurance HMO's would hold so much power so that any reform is truly never discussed.

It's time to take back the country and find politicos that want to better the country and not blame the other party (yet do the same shit)....

Of course if the Dems and the GOP keep hating each other and blaming each other then they keep the country divided and people don't have to see what the problems truly are and who is pulling the strings and not allowing true change.

As for doctors coming to the US freom Canada, where is this happening????? In Ohio doctors are leaving in droves because they cannot afford the malpractice insurance and it is happening in every state.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

j8ear

Yeah, that's EXACTLY what has happened IN EVERY SINGLE freaking country where universal health care has been implemented. Tax burdens have sky rocketed...job creation has stagnated, health care quality has been vastly degraded, and become hugely more inefficient and costly.

Just a GOP scare tactic though (if your a hate filled left wing bigot that is)!!!


HELLO selective memory. Are you 6 years old, and forget about EVERY SINGLE fucking congress that has ever sat raising their salaries and increasing their retirement benefits (while you sit back and rail against those retirement opportunities for every other american)?

Mimimun wages don't work when their 12 an hour or 35 an hour (like in those unionized GM plants that failed). They never have and they never will. Keep praying to your liberal gods for it to just work one day. These pathetic panderings to lower class workers to increase it from 3.85 to 4.10 an hour. That won't even fill the bong one extra time per month. It will however make the mom and pop only hire 3 summer workers instead of 4. Thanks Libs...great job again.

Yeah this is purely a GOP phenom (if your a hate filled left wing two faced bigot that is)!!!

You've got nothing rational, reasonable or coherent upon which to make sound decisions it seems:

well except for maybe these hate filled tantrums about entertainment personalities:
This is actually funny in it's dillusional qualities.
Young "pan" so full of hate and inexperience.

I totally respect the passion with which you present your ignorance.

-bear

__________________
It's alot easier to ask for forgiveness then it is to ask for permission.

j8ear

I never said that...and its not my party. Get your facts straight. Of course it's OK to blame clinton...he was one of the WORST Presidents this countries ever had...and provided over the underlying causes of some our most challenging times.

No your blaming the opposing politicos. Not me. I have no allegiance to the GOP...and find fault in much of their agenda.

Unions destroyed this country and deserve to be shit on. They ruined the airlines, the auto industry, education, and just about every industry they stuck there mob connected, greedy, corrupt dick skinners into.

It only seems to have happend to largely unionized industrieds. Most others saw it coming just fine...and are thriving!!! In spite of the outrageous health care costs.

It is happening ALL OVER the US...maybe doctors are fleeing ohio...there are several states, Maryland being another one, where mal practice insurance has gotten out of control. I assure these doctors AREN"T going to countries with socialized medicine. They are moving to more doctor friendly states.

-bear

__________________
It's alot easier to ask for forgiveness then it is to ask for permission.

aswo

Being from southern california home of most of this country's "illegals", all i have to say is fuck u, these people do all the jobs that the native workers wont do, not only that but they do it better and more loyally. They clean toilets work on sewing machines watch your kids and do everything else most americans wont do because its beneath them yet they are still the scapegoat for every single economic problem. Its bull shit all bull shit

__________________
People who love people

pan6467

This thread is NOT about universal healthcare, nor the cost.... open a thread and debate that.

This thread is me trying to find who can legitimately support MY TAX DOLLARS paying for ILLEGALS healthcare while I am forced to pay my own or face severe credit problems (hurting job oppurtunies, loans and apartments I can get into) and possibly in the near future garnishments of my wages to pay.

It is for those who support those in power allowing this to explain why cuts in medicaid and medicare (which retirees pay for) is ok, telling companies to not honor their LEGAL obligations to their retirees it is ok (again personal or in this case corporate responsibility).

It is to explain why it is ok for our government to support the exponential rise in healthcare that is a major reason for our economic demise.

As for my "tantrums on personalities" it was an example of GOP talking heads that preach responsibility yet take none. Much the way our government expects us to, yet hands our TAX DOLLARS over to ILLEGAL healthcare while we go broke trying to pay for it.

explain to me why that is ok....... please.... explain to me why I need to PAY FOR ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT HEALTHCARE, YET GO BROKE TRYING TO JUST PAY MY PREMIUMS AND DEDUCTIBLES.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

pan6467

I love the way the press blames Malpractice lawsuits but fails to mention HMO's and healthcare providers determine how much THEY will pay the Doctor. My doctor charges $120 for an office visit, when we had insurance we paid the 20% deductable ($25) that would make one assume the insurance paid $95..... nope they paid $50 as agreed to by their contract with the physician. If he wasn't in the network then he would lose patients and probably go bust.... as it is he still takes a loss. Yet, it's malpractice driving him out.

However without insurance we would pay the full $120 and can no longer go to see him.

BUT if I were an ILLEGAL now I could get totally FREE healthcare paid for by the tax dollars of hard working citizens.....

Say what you will, but I don't see how the Government paying for ILLEGAL healthcare is ok but the rest of us are fucked with outrageous bills.

Yep those socialized med countries the UK and Canada are really having problems getting people to enroll in Med schools .... while we have great numbers here.....lol

Work force numbers
The number of medical students and residents is on the rise in Canada and the United Kingdom but dropping slightly in the United States.

First-year
allopathic students All residents
------------------- ---------------
U.K. 5,718 (+14%) 35,000 (+11%)
Canada 1,776 (+12%) 8,408 (+8%)
U.S. 16,790 (-2%) 97,383 (-1%)

Source: Assn. of American Medical Colleges. U.S. totals are for 1998, reflecting changes from 1993; U.K. and Canada totals are for 2000, reflecting change from 1997.

Link: http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/200...6/prsb0416.htm

And yes, I blame the GOP but I also hold the DEMS accountable and to be honest i don't care which party does it but reform is needed.

As for the "they do the jobs that noone else will" bullshit doesn't fly with me. I lived in Phoenix, I know the ILLEGALS will work for less than legal wages AND that is how they get jobs.... go to Guadalupe and pick up an illegal to work for pennies on the dollar instead of paying someone minimum wage and letting them work their way up.

You want to say it's all our fault fine..... that gives these people the right to break the laws though????? That gives these people the right to work and not pay taxes while 25% of my paycheck disappears to pay for their medical care?????? That gives these people the right to free medical care??????

Don't like the laws then change them....ooo but if we changed immigration laws the illegals would not be illegal and have the same rights guaranteed them and therefore be paid legal wages.....

The problem is we are going backwards and not striving to better anything. People are so willing to blame and take away those things that were promised rather than find ways to keep the promises and move forward.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

host

j8ear, this is the first time that I have been unable to ignore you. Your posts are almost always unsubstantiated rants, so I learn nothing from them. Where do you get that misinformation and the 'tude to go with it? Can you back up anything that you posted about the Clinton vs. Bush led economic periods?

These stat comparisons refute your argument. The official start of the last recession was March, 2001. There is no Bush economic recovery, just $2 trillion in additional federal debt, a huge decline in the international exchange rate for the dollar. decline in spending power vs. 38 cent wage increase measured in 1982 dollars, slightly less than 5 percent, vs, huge increases in the cost of housing and commodities such as oil and gold. I used the date Nov. 1, 2000 as the Clinton cut off whenever possible, because after that, the economy was reacting to Bush. The stock market indices are even worse than the numbers presented, because they adjusted upward to reflect the decline in the dollar vs. the euro. The Dow index in current Euro value vs. year 2000 is at 6874 today, vs 10899 on Nov. 1, 2000!

The federal budget is in a crises as far as deficit projections, vs. the surpluses in 98, 99, and 2000, and total employment is up just 3.75 percent
in 55 months, lagging behind the natural increase in the labor force, even after the fiscal stimulus of large tax cuts for those with high incomes, 4 years of artificially low interest rates, and a huge $2 trillion deficit. all stimuli that did not drive the economy at the end of 2000.

Dow 30 Index Nov. 1, 2000: 10899 http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=%5ED...e=1&f=2000&g=d
Dow 30 Index May 09 ,2005: 10384

Nasdaq Index Nov. 1, 2000: 3289
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=%5EI...e=1&f=2000&g=d
Nasdaq Index May 9, 2005: 1979

S&P 500 Index Nov. 1, 2000: 1421
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=%5EG...e=1&f=2000&g=d
S&P 500 Index May 8, 2005: 1178

Nov 1, 2000: One Euro cost 0.854 Dollar
http://www.newyorkfed.org/markets/fx...dt2=11/01/2000
http://www.newyorkfed.org/markets/fx...torical/fx.cfm
May 9, 2005:One Euro cost 1.29 Dollars

Nov. 1, 2000: Gold, Troy Ounce 263.70 Dollars
http://www.kitco.com/charts/historicalgold.html
May 9, 2005: Gold, Troy Ounce 426.50 Dollars

Nov. 1, 2000: Silver Ounce 4.75 Dollars
http://www.kitco.com/charts/historicalsilver.html
May 9, 2005: Silver Ounce 7.05 Dollars

Nov. 1, 2000: Crude Oil 34.40 Dollars
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/OILPRICE.txt
May 9, 2005: Crude Oil 42.24 Dollars

[quote]ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/news.release/H....11162000.news
Average hourly earnings | Percent
| Oct. | Sept.| Oct. | change
| 1999 | 2000p| 2000p| Oct. 1999 -
| | | | Oct. 2000
Total private:2/ | | | |
Current dollars..........| $13.41 | $13.87 | $13.95 | 4.0
Constant (1982) dollars..| 7.87 | 7.89 | 7.92

ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/news.release/H....04202005.news
| Average hourly earnings
|_________________________________________________
| | | |
Industry | | | | Percent
| Mar. | Feb. | Mar. | change:
| 2004 | 2005p | 2005p | Mar. 2004-
| | | | Mar. 2005
_____________________________|___________|___________|___________|_____________
| | | |
Total private:2/ | | | |
Current dollars..........| $15.54 | $15.95 | $15.95 | 2.6
Constant (1982) dollars..| 8.23 | 8.25 | 8.20 | -.4

Your ranting about unions, especially about the autoworkers, is uninformed, and un-American. Industrial workers in first 40 years of the last century paid with limbs and blood so that Americans could enjoy the pay, benefits, holidays, vacations, overtime, workplace safety, and unemployment insurance and pensions that many Americans take for granted today:
There was no union to blame this on, the steel workers union formed in 1936.

tecoyah

OK Kiddos.......this is not good

I May not MOD in here anymore....But I am more than willing to deal with Flame regardless of where it occurs

If ANYONE tells someone to FucK Off again....I will take out the Ban stick and pummel someone.......

If this gets any worse....I will Close it....and deal individually with those who so blatantly insult other member.....WTF is wrong with you people

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

shakran

Pan, you gotta calm down. All this "fuck you, fuck Bush, fuck that shit" stuff isn't helping the cause. You're completely right in that the GOP is filled with a bunch of smarmy, help-only-the-rich jerks, but the way you're approaching it guarantees that no one will listen to you about it. Hell it's hard enough to get them to listen to reason when you're being reasonable. If you sound like the alcoholic nut in the middle of central park, you'll never get anyone to pay attention.

pan6467

I agree and I have no excuse for the behavior or tone I used. I just honestly have a hard time dealing with this. I can deal with a lot, but basically giving tax dollars away to people who are illegally here while the same government allows the healthcare industry to rape and pillage the people paying the taxes and are true citizens? Where is the justification? What the Hell happened to the reasoning?

To have people on this board accept it and believe that giving people who are committing crimes (illegal immigration IS ILLEGAL) free healthcare is ok, but tell people who were promised benefits and law abiding citizens have to go broke, tough luck........ is just freaking unbelievable.

Have we totally lost our freaking minds to allow this to continue and have people support it?

WTF? Are we going to give ILLEGALS their own free housing and hand them whatever they need, while we taxpayers have our government rape our educational system, our future and sit still for it, while blaming "the other party".

We cut Medicare and Medicaid (a PAID INSURANCE), close VA hospitals and refuse to even open dialogue on trying to restore sanity into the system...... BUT we can pay BILLIONS (and it will be BILLIONS) to give ILLEGALS FREE HEALTHCARE, when the party in power refuses to give its own a decent medical system.

What is the slogan going to be now............. COME TO THE US ILLEGALLY AND GET UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE AS THEIR OWN GO INTO DEBT TRYING TO PAY FOR IT?????????

The very people who argue against a healthcare reform.... even on a sliding scale basis are OK with paying for ILLEGAL healthcare?????? WTF?

This is just mind boggling I can not believe this is the same country I grew up in and put on a military uniform for.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

tecoyah

That is just....so much better....thank you


Please continue, this is an excellent topic

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

j8ear

Please don't do me any favors. I have long relished you to the garbage heap of statisticians and lengthy yet worthless "link" posters. You offer zero insight and rarely even a conherent personal opinion letting other do that for you with your "articles" or "links."

As for your Stats...even though I won't bother to give them even the slightest glance, are completely fucking worthless, afaic. As are all your biased, unreasonable, nonsensical, extremely long, uninteresting and unconvincing copilation of some elses work you assemble.

You know it is even possible and I will concede that you might even include insightful and educational information on some of your 'epic' posts. Unfortunately your flavor, and history don't do your presentations any favors.

If you have trouble wrapping your little economic brain around an ecomony SERIOUSLY recessing in the first 200 days of a presidency, and unable to attribute this presidents predecessor, this is evidence of your illness. If your inability to assess responsibility for systemic and institutional bureaucratic failings of intelligence, national defense and federal, state and local law enforcement to the administration PRIOR to the attacks of 9-11...well howdy doody...I want to live in your fantasy world and own my own unicorn.

Ignore me and REALITY all you want. You're a left wing liberal unable to grasp or deal with free markets, reality, accountablity, and responsiblity. We need your ilk to have someone to show us FAILURE AFTER FAILURE, denial after denial. We need your ilk to have someone to laugh at.

I respect you wholeheartedly for taking on this role.

-bear

__________________
It's alot easier to ask for forgiveness then it is to ask for permission.

tecoyah

Well now....it would seem we have trouble understanding the concept of insult....dont we

See you in a week.....Maybe

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

tecoyah

I do not wish to see others take vacation as well....and Host....you are pretty damn close.

As it would seem we are not capable of self moderation in here....guess this discussion is Over.

Closed for your protection

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha