mrbuck12000

Well all you bush-heads out there, i hope your over 35 cuz 25 ain't gonna save yeah....cuz its comin:

Hey man don't blame me i voted for the other white guy!!!

Saturday, October 30, 2004

Potomac Watch: Administration's own actions fuel rumors of draft

By ERIC ROSENBERG
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER WASHINGTON BUREAU

WASHINGTON -- Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld indignantly scoffs and scolds about the relentless rumors that the Bush administration is planning to reinstate the military draft.

"This plot is so secret that it doesn't exist," Rumsfeld wrote this week in the Deseret News of Salt Lake City. "To my knowledge, in the time I have served as secretary of defense, the idea of reinstating the draft has never been debated, endorsed, discussed, theorized, pondered or even whispered by anyone in the Bush administration."

In a radio interview earlier this month, Rumsfeld denounced the rumors as "a mischievous political effort that's being made to frighten young men and women."

This may come as a shock to the Pentagon chief, but most of the rumors have arisen from actions within the Bush administration, which has studied how to expand draft registration to include women, target some civilian work specialties for special attention by the draft and extend the required draft registration age from 25 years old to 34 years.

These draft plans were discussed at the Pentagon on Feb. 11, 2003, by the chief of the Selective Service System, the federal agency that would operate a draft, and senior Pentagon officials.

At the Pentagon meeting, the Selective Service System's then-acting director, Lewis Brodsky, and the director of public and congressional affairs, Richard Flahavan, met with Rumsfeld aides responsible for personnel issues.

Those aides included Charles Abell, principal deputy undersecretary of defense for personnel and readiness; William Carr, deputy undersecretary of defense for military personnel policy; and a top Army personnel aide, Col. David Kopanski.

According to a copy of the meeting agenda, the Selective Service System leaders reviewed the past 30 years of draft registration planning and then made their pitch for more aggressive draft preparations.

"In line with today's needs, the Selective Service System's structure, programs and activities should be re-engineered toward maintaining a national inventory of American men and, for the first time, women, ages 18 through 34, with an added focus on identifying individuals with critical skills," the agency said in its February 2003 proposal.

The agency officials recommended formation of a government-wide task force "to examine the feasibility of this proposal" and design efforts "to market the concept" to congressional lawmakers.

The Arlington, Va.-based Selective Service System, which is independent from the Defense Department, envisioned the creation of a massive database that would require all registrants to indicate whether they have skills "critical to national security or community health and safety."

The database could then be used to fill key posts throughout the armed forces and federal, state and local government agencies in time of crisis.

Some of the skill areas where the armed forces are facing "critical shortages" include linguists and computer specialists, the agency said. As part of the expanded draft registration process, Americans would be required to regularly update the agency on their skills until they reach age 35.

The six-page proposal was initially made public after Hearst Newspapers filed a request under the Freedom of Information Act.

At present, the agency is authorized to register young men, ages 18 through 25, who are not required to regularly inform the government about their professional skills.

Separately, the agency also has in place a special registration system to draft health care personnel in more than 60 specialties into the military if necessary in a crisis.

Flahavan said Pentagon officials have not agreed to any aspect of the Selective Service's far-reaching proposal.

"We went over there, we briefed it. Nobody committed to anything," he said in an interview. "Those ideas are, in fact, dead. Nobody wants to talk about them. Nobody is interested in them" in the Pentagon.

Army Lt. Col. Joe Richard, a spokesman for Rumsfeld, did not respond for comment.

Rumors about the draft also have been fueled by the update of contingency plans for a draft of medical personnel in a crisis.

The New York Times reported this month that the Selective Service System had hired a public relations agency, Widmeyer Communications, to assess how to plan for such a medical draft. The agency advised that "overtures from Selective Service to the medical community will be seen as precursors to a draft" that could alarm the public, the newspaper reported.

The military draft ended in 1973 as the American commitment in Vietnam waned, beginning the era of the all-volunteer force. Mandatory registration for the draft was suspended in 1975 but was resumed in 1980 by President Carter after the Soviets invaded Afghanistan.

About 13.5 million men, ages 18 to 25, currently are registered with the Selective Service.

The issue of a renewed draft has gained attention because of concerns that U.S. military forces are stretched thin due to worldwide commitments.

Since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist strikes, U.S. forces have fought two wars, have established a major military presence in Afghanistan and Iraq and have undertaken peacekeeping duties in Haiti.
Potomac Watch is a weekly look at issues and personalities in Washington, D.C.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/nation...438_pot30.html

__________________
"There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, it's probably in Tennessee --that says, fool me once, shame on ... shame on you. Fool me ... You can't get fooled again." - G.W. Bush quoted by the Baltimore Sun - Oct 6, 2002

smooth

what about felons?

do they just stick my ass up on the front line without a firearm and hide behind me?

at first I contemplated I wouldn't be eligible, then I realized I'd probably be the perfect shield from some conservatives' perspective.

fuck.

__________________
"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

djtestudo

There will be no draft.

It has to pass through a Congress where whomever votes in favor will be very quickly removed from office in the next election, and the party that supports it will be out of the Presidential races for a decade.

There will be no draft.

__________________
"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

Flyguy

You post a very good pile of nonsense! You mean to tell me that a draft won't pass through a congress that is in total agreement with Bush and the position he has on the war and why he started it?

"the party that supports it will be out of the Presidential races for a decade."

Wow, it really is good that Kerry lost. Republicans out of presidental elections for a decade?? Oh, happy day!!

With troops dying, other countries leaving, no one back here willing to sign up for Bush's gurrela war, how do you think they will increase the troop levels? Espically if this new push in Falluja backfires and a lot of our guys get killed?

We'll see. Accoring to 51% of Americans, they approve of the war, they approve of the lie Bush told in order to go to war and they should be the first to send their kids. When this comes down, and this will be added to the list of Bush's lies, all of you will see the real "morailty" of the guy you voted for.

A proven liar with "morals" gets reelected on that very issue. I can't believe what this country has come to.

Fuck you Bush, I'm not going.

smooth

I was going to point out that they already have sent their kids over there.

And then it hit me: a topic that hasn't been discussed is that a referendum of the president equates to a referendum on oneself at that point.

at the point one becomes emotionally and ideologically invested in the course of action, would we be surprised to find that such a person would be unwilling or unable to admit to oneself that the cause was not just, not a right course, not to be followed through? especially if one's progeny had been killed during that course of action?


hopefully roachboy will tune in to this and offer up an opinion.

__________________
"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

hammer4all

Then answer me this: why on earth has the Pentagon now decided, after all these years, to once again staff these unneeded draft boards?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/...077906,00.html

irateplatypus

the day President Bush or any member of his cabinet publicly endorses a draft is the day my avatar changes to a pic of Ted Kennedy with the caption "i was wrong, the liberals were right."

i'll do it for a full month, i give you my word.

__________________
If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

~ Winston Churchill

Manx

I'd rather have you promise to vote Democrat next time.

smooth

hey irate, what do you think of what kerry claimed was a 'backdoor draft?"

the notion that preventing people from leaving when their time is up amounts to a draft on the tail end of one's service?

does that bother you or do you see it differently?

and if you wouldn't mind explaining why not if you do see it differently.

thank you.

__________________
"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

irateplatypus

not w/out a counterbet my friend.

__________________
If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

~ Winston Churchill

Manx

OK.

If a Democrat member of Bush's cabinet publicly endorses the draft, I will give you my first born daughter.

irateplatypus

i think it sounds like something the navy would come up with.

the rest of the draft discussion sounds downright hysterical to me but i do fear that a backdoor type of draft is something to be concerned about. the idea does bother me... but i do see it differently from a conventional draft.

i'm against a conventional draft (except in cases where the death of the nation and massive civilian causualties are plainly the cost of defeat) for many reasons... chiefly because when my life is on the line i don't want someone who didn't volunteer to be watching my back.

a backdoor draft is an entirely different animal. usually this means that the military would enforce a policy called "stop loss". stop loss should be lawful under emergency circumstances only until the military is given ample time to recruit and train replacements for those who choose to end their service after their obligation is filled. it becomes abusive when stop loss is a matter of policy and not a temporary solution.

my biggest problem with Bush defense policy is this very issue. i feel they are bordering on exploiting the discipline and loyalty of some of our troops by extending the stop loss rules unfairly. if congress will not pony up the money to train enough volunteering troops to win the war or if keeping soldiers years beyond their voluntary commitment is the only way of maintaining sufficient manpower... then i think that a serious re-evaluation of the method and purpose of the war is needed.

morale is high right now. the troops feel confident in the President and in their purpose. however, if that willingness to sacrifice is squandered by politicians who get too greedy to listen to the average soldier... then the line from need to exploitation has been crossed.

__________________
If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

~ Winston Churchill

D Rice

I am laughing my ass of right now. You are a damn fool if you think the draft is coming back. Just another so called scare tactic that only characterizes right wingers but the democrats are using. I would put every cent of my belongings and bet you there will not be a draft under this adminstration. And if there was i would go and serve becasue i have seen the world and you and i are blessed to live in this country and it is worth fighting for.

SecretMethod70

If there were a draft, I would not go. This war is not worth risking my life for. That said, I will join D Rice in his bet. There will not be a draft.

__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

Bill O'Rights

I'm 42.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

smooth

One of the things that concerns me about extended tours is in regard to the financial security of the troops' families.

I only know 20-25 year old guardsmen (and some women). They weren't particularly miffed about going off to war, but some were understandably conerned about just war in general. Now that I think about it, some people were going off to egypt and jordan and places like that a few years back. I don't know what that has to do with anything.

but anyway, I am hearing stories in the media about fathers in the guard and I used to know middle aged guardsmen who had their own businesses. my concern becomes one of how their families are doing without their regular income. I don't know what their pay might be, so I can't speak to it with authority, but my understanding is that their domestic situation is not being paid attention to and/or not doing very well.

so while I can understand your line of logic, I'm not sure we're getting the full picture or ramification of what's going on in this regard. I'd like to know more but the media is acting toothless on this. all we see are young boys over there, for one thing. and that's not my understanding of the full composition of the guard. I also understood it to be supplemental income for people more our age--people who might be starting or have families and are in some type of regular career.

__________________
"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

anleja

So, to everyone who states so confidently that there won't be a draft... it seems to me that this current war climate has a very good chance of escalating in ways not intended by the Bush administration. Right now, with only Iraq and Afghanistan in the picture, there is probably no need for a draft, however, throw Iran, N. Korea, Syria, and others in the equation... then what? Won't we be a bit militarily streached thin if our troops find themselves marching in Tehran, facing a REAL army?

Sty

Um I don't quite get this. My friend who works in Kitty Hawk just told me that he's going to be 'kicked out' of navy in the next six months because they needed to get rid of 60k persons. He's one of those guys.

So they need more men but they're at the same time short of men?

__________________
br,
Sty

I route, therefore you exist

anleja

Will he be in a position for them to get him back after he is dismissed? I like news like this, it makes me think that a draft might not be necessary. I'm just worried that something unpredictable has a good chance of happening in regard to other countries actions against us.

irateplatypus

yeah, this is true. the Air Force is required to reduce down about 40K in the same way. congress places a legal limit on how many people can serve in each branch of the military. there is also something like a 3% buffer the services are given if they end up going over a bit. sometimes, the military (for practical, economic, or political reasons) cannot accurately predict the ebb and flow of people from their jobs.

the thing is... no matter our force size or structure, the mission goes on. the navy is REQUIRED to trim the 60k guys in whatever way hurts them the least but their duties are still expanding with a two front war and no guarantee of peace in sight. this is were the backdoor draft that smooth was talking about comes in. they must do more w/less... so stop loss restrictions are put in place and the servicemen that remain must shoulder additional burdens.

one more thing... when you hear that the military is short of men, it's often referring to specific career specialties. they are short of meteorologists, engineers, computer specialists etc. but not short of actual volunteer numbers. recruiting quotas have been met easily for the enlisted force and i know they're still raising standards for officer candidates to sift through the abundance of applicants.

__________________
If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

~ Winston Churchill

Sty

I honestly don't know what "being in position for them to get him back" means... I know he's been in Navy Intelligence for over 4 years now so I don't think they're going to take him back after dismissal, if that's what you mean.

Anyways, armies seem to always have lack of speciality guys. I served my time (mandatory in Finland) as a weatherman and there wasn't too many guys trying to be one (well, they actually didn't advertise the good sides of being a weatherman in the army).

Anyways, there's only so much time you can invest into teaching the infantry which side of the tree a left-handed guy should shoot

__________________
br,
Sty

I route, therefore you exist

Stompy

Good thing I never registered

__________________
I love lamp.

Rudel73

why are you people so against serving your country? if you wouldnt die for your country LEAVE

Rdr4evr

Fighting a war that has nothing to do with the safety of your country and one that you don't believe in does not constitute “serving” your country; it constitutes being a coward for fighting for something you don't believe in.

For me personally, I don't believe in war at all, therefore I would not fight no matter what the purpose behind it is. If it comes down to life and death, I am off to another country, if the apocalypse is at hand and the only way to survive is to fight, than I will fight for myself and the ones I love, not any one country.

:::OshnSoul:::

Even if it were true, I wouldn't go. They won't take me from my son. End of story. I'd rather be in jail and see my son once in a while than be overseas and possibly not ever see him again.

sob

If you weren't quite so hysterical, you might have noticed that the Military Draft Bill, H.R. 163, introduced by DEMOCRAT Charlie Rangel, was voted on and defeated, 402-2.

Fritz Hollings, another DEMOCRAT, couldn't even get a co-sponsor for the corresponding Senate version.

yeagbltz86

Stay in school

yeagbltz86

Stay in school. stay as long as you can. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!

Seaver

Thank you for posting this before I had to look up their names.

There is no draft, there WILL BE NO DRAFT. Short of N. Korea invading Souel (sp?), or China invading Taiwan there will be no such draft.

It was (yes look it up if you want) a DEMOCRAT who put it up during the elections for political purposes, the Republicans finally forced a vote on it to put down the stupid ass rumors (read: this and the dozens of other posts).

Manx

The question of a potential draft is a valid question. This is always true during a large-scale war. The answer to the question is ultimately unknowable at this time. We can deduce probabilities based on information such as the number of active troops, the number of reserves, where troops are located, what requirements there are for those locations and the probabilities for escalation in troop levels based on potential circumstances (additional simultaneous wars, escalation in activity of existing conflicts), etc.

I personally have not looked into any of that information as it pertains to a draft because I will not be drafted and whether any of my friends or family are drafted would have had no bearing on my vote.

For many people, those two facts are not applicable and the concern of a draft is real.

But the answer to the question of whether there will be a draft is assuredly not going to be found in any politician claiming that they will not have a draft, nor in the artificial purposes of the Democrats bring draft bills to the House, nor in the artificial purposes of the Republicans bring it to vote in order to vote it down.

A seperate, and valid, question is the one posed by smooth - is the "back door draft" essentially equivalent to a draft that causes concern.

rfra3645

This is unbelievable i do not understand why so many jack assess talk about a draft.. this is the 2nd time i have personally seen a conversation ( the first time was a real "old" couple talking to their grandson at a restaurant in OH) they interrupted my breakfast so when i was done eating i said to them what im gonna say here minus all profane language ( i try to respect the family setting) . Why would you even contemplate the draft. Let me think less than 1500 casualties have happened in Iraq.. We still have some military left .. if for some fucked up reason we did get attacked or need to attack some place i have no doubt the volunteers would be lining up down the streets to protect and serve our country i would be in front of the line in my area even tho i am married and have 2 kids.. The only people who would be scared of a draft really are basically pussies.. There have been so many wars and killing world wide what is utterly amazing the US hasn’t been dragged into it sooner. the people that say o but why should we care about what happens else where big fucking yellow bus we are everywhere there is no country that the us isnt a part of someway including north Korea even if its only 1 ameriCAN that gets gunned down killed or hostage whatever its an attack on America if we need to defend ourselves do it.. Don’t be scared oh i may have to kill someone i say fuck that its time to dole out the justice. but oh i might get killed i say fuck that too kill or be killed if your not ready to die its time get right with GOD if you don’t believe in GOD than who cares if you die.... your gonna sooner or later why not do what all the people who died defending this country did in the past do it do it proud just git - r dun sooner or later someone else is gonna want to rattle our cage and when the time comes they got an ass whoopin coming there are plenty of citizens out there who understand and believe in this country all the people say this is w's way of finishing his dads war what a crock of shit Iraq had it coming Afghanistan had it coming north Korea dam right its got it coming Iran yeah they do too why should this great country "talk" we’ve been talking for 200 years and it still has gotten us in a war about every 35 years..... War happens its time America realized that... oh wait........... Most of us have (bush won by popular vote also)

__________________
this post is a natural product made from recycled electrons.
the slight variations in spelling, grammar and punctuation
enhance its individual character and individuality and are
in no way to be considered flaws or defects.


if you cant read my post i dont want to hear about it move on. thanks

sob

While I have not researched when it came into being, the regulation that an active duty member could be retained in the service during wartime has been around for a very long time.

I can't believe that any service member has ever been unaware of it.

Furthermore, I declined to join the reserves upon the end of my active duty time, because (a) there was no pay billet for me, and I certainly wasn't going to drill for free, and (b) I was not willing to risk the financial losses I would sustain if I were activated.

While I have sympathy for the hardships suffered by those who were activated, I don't have sympathy for the whiners who tried to duck out of their sworn obligation. I haven't heard any of them offering to give their pay back.

As a footnote, I can tell you that when I'm considering candidates for a job, I will bend over backwards to hire someone who's been in the military. They've always been the best employees.

rfra3645

#25
:::OshnSoul:::
The devil in me.........
:::OshnSoul:::'s Avatar

Donor
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Wherever I put myself last......

Even if it were true, I wouldn't go. They won't take me from my son. End of story. I'd rather be in jail and see my son once in a while than be overseas and possibly not ever see him again.
__________________
I'll keep fighting to live until there's no reason to fight, and I'll keep trying to see until the end is in sight, you know I'm trying to give so c'mon give me a try, you know I'm dying to live until I'm ready to die.



what i like is the total conradiction of your quote and your post....

__________________
this post is a natural product made from recycled electrons.
the slight variations in spelling, grammar and punctuation
enhance its individual character and individuality and are
in no way to be considered flaws or defects.


if you cant read my post i dont want to hear about it move on. thanks

Stompy

Nah, I'm not goin anywhere.

I have a few different perspectives on this, but there's really only one that I currently follow:

I didn't vote for Bush, but 59 million people did. Any mistake he makes is his own. Conspiracy theories aside that his administration will bring on WW3 and the end of our freedoms as we know it, I feel that him being in office is dangerous. I believe in natural selection, so if people want to appoint a leader that could potentially get us into some deep shit, then I personally won't defend them. I'll gladly let nature run its course.

The death toll in Iraq is only 1500, and really, it's not that much. That doesn't bother me. It's the hypothetical situations - what if we started shit with Iran, what if we started shit with N. Korea, etc... that could have a runoff effect and blow up into something bigger than we anticipated.

I know these countries will eventually have to be dealt with because they're potential "hot zones", and understandably so, however, if this administration is stupid enough to get itself into something that it can't handle, then it deserves to fall.

I just don't feel that this country, at this point in time, is worth defending because I don't feel that it does its job in defending me. I'm not talking about the terrorist boogeymen, but personal freedoms and politicians who do their hardest to uphold the constitution.

Yeah, I can still go to work, school, and do pretty much whatever I feel like whenever I feel like it, but it goes deeper than that, and the reasons for that are probably best explained in a different thread, but I will give just one example (and it's very minor:

Politicians seem to be worried about the green, as in $$. Notice the amount of attention the MPAA/RIAA have received in the past few years, yet more important and pressing issues like spyware are allowed to run rampant and out of control (yes, it was just recently a bill was passed to help stamp out spyware). I don't think that should be defended. Or shit like the Patriot act... there's just too many hypocrites running things.

See, this country started off GREAT, but somewhere along the lines, people started taking advantage of the system we have and lost sight of the main goal. In fact, I feel we're close to doing a complete 180 and going in an opposite direction than intended.

There's more examples, a LOT more, but in all - I'm not too proud of this country right now. Anything this country gets itself into in the next 4 years, it needs to deal with on its own. I'm not saying 59 million people are STUPID, but if they feel this is the type of leader they want elected, then THEY can fix the mess until they learn to think more carefully about who to elect.

I'd rather sit in a jail knowing I stood up for what I believed in as opposed to being pushed around and forced to do something I don't want to do.

At the same time, I do realize that war is sometimes necessary to get desired results, but if its misused (ie Vietnam), then I don't think I should have to fix that mess.

If it was something like another Hitler that amassed this massive army and we didn't have enough manpower to fight it, then that's another story. I just don't fight trivial wars, that's all.

My not registering started off as laziness when I was 18, but as I got more into law and more aware about politics of this country, it was more of a direct refusal to comply with the law. Just because it's law doesn't make it right, and personally, I'm okay with breaking this law - it's what I believe in.

Not to mention, someone who's forced to fight is exponentially less efficient as someone who volunteered. It's moot anyway, there will never be a draft.

__________________
I love lamp.

rfra3645

that sounds like the perfect compromise really... you have your belief and are sticking to it i have to and very loudly do aplaud that. thats really what america is all about.



[quote] Politicians seem to be worried about the green, as in $$. [quote/]


amerricans almost seem to aprove of this in some grotesque way. some would say they were suporting it by reelecting bush who is supposedly for the big bussiness therefore the big money.. i would say yes most politicans look at there job as a a damn good way of making money wether it be the local police chief who happens to have a private "fund" or the vice presdent who happens to make money off a large priavte compnay subbed out to the pentagon which he was a part of long before vice presidency. but still politicsis just an verry provocative enterprise.



isnt that what modern day america is about using the system

woman succesfully sues mcdonalds spilt cofee in lap

there are way to many of theese stories too list

i still say if your called to duty cowboy up... its time....

__________________
this post is a natural product made from recycled electrons.
the slight variations in spelling, grammar and punctuation
enhance its individual character and individuality and are
in no way to be considered flaws or defects.


if you cant read my post i dont want to hear about it move on. thanks

Locobot

It seems my complete unemployability may save my ass yet. I'm more than confidant that I have no "critical skills" that the military would be interested in. Sucks for you engineers and medical personnel though.

Unless we see autonomous Iraqi police and military forces spring up soon I'm fairly certain there will be a draft. The Stop-loss system for keeping troops in Iraq seems to be stressed to it's limit. There are troops that have spent five of the last six years in the field away from home in Bosnia, Afghanistan, then Iraq.

The day the much-maligned "missing explosives" story broke was the same day that 50 Iraqi police volunteers were stopped at a checkpoint, disarmed, proned flat to the ground, and summarily executed. I don't see the Iraqi's being able to police themselves any time soon.

We've recently sold 500 bunker-buster bombs to Israel, which it's not unfathomable they will use to attack Iran's nuclear energy and weapon facilities a la Iraq 1981 . I don't see Iran hesitating to invade Iraq if this occurs in which case I'm not sure even a draft will do much good. I don't think Iranians see much of a difference between Israel and the U.S. This is all worst-case-scenario of course.

The more important question here is of course could there be a draft? Does the military still have the capability to indoctrinate and train conscripts? I could see a lot of 18-20 year old boys being succeptable to military brain washing, much older than that I'm not so sure. One thing our culture drills into Americans at an early age is a (mostly imagined) need for individuality. Not a value prized by the military.

All this talk of a gender-neutral draft is interesting to me also. I know some fairly tough 18-25 year old women who could probably hold their own in a warzone. I also know quite a few young women who would be completely useless in battle, I don't care how much training they have. Hypothetically it's pretty hilarious to think about GWBush sending wave after wave of 18-year-old girls at the enemy, but I wouldn't put it beyond him.

pan6467

Don't need a draft as long as BUSH keeps doing bullshit like this so he can say he isn't drafting anyone. Why or how this man got re-elected when he pulls shit like this is beyond me. Course he swears he loves the military then cuts retirees benefits, VA hospitals and people smile and love to eat his bullshit.

Aw ell, sure all you think this is just sour grapes, but how would you feel??????? Course it's easy to answer BS with BS when you don't have to worry about it, happening to you so you can say anything.

Not only served his time BUT his reserve time and then make up some faulty "we never truly discharged you". Can't wait till they come for us Navy guys and send me a letter like that.....
=========================================================
Veteran Sues After He Receives Duty Order

Sat Nov 6,10:00 PM ET U.S. National - AP

HONOLULU - A veteran of the first Persian Gulf War is suing the Army after it ordered him to report for duty 13 years after he was honorably discharged from active duty and eight years after he left the reserves.

Kauai resident David Miyasato received word of his reactivation in September, but says he believes he completed his eight-year obligation to the Army long ago.

"I was shocked," Miyasato said Friday. "I never expected to see something like that after being out of the service for 13 years."

His federal lawsuit, filed Friday in Honolulu, seeks a judgment declaring that he has fulfilled his military obligations.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Harry Yee said his office would defend the Army. He declined to comment further. An Army spokewoman at the Pentagon declined to comment to the Honolulu Star-Bulletin.

Miyasato, 34, was scheduled to report to a military facility in South Carolina on Tuesday.

Within hours of filing the lawsuit, however, Miyasato received a faxed letter from the Army's Human Resources Command saying his "exemption from active duty had not been finalized at this time" and that he has been given an administrative delay for up to 30 days, said his attorney, Eric Seitz.

Miyasato, his wife, Estelle, and their 7-month-old daughter, Abigail, live in Lihue, where he opened an auto-tinting shop two years ago.

His lawsuit states that Miyasato is suing not because he opposes the war in Iraq but because his business and family would suffer "serious and irreparable harm" if he is required to serve.

Miyasato enlisted in the Army in 1987 and served in Iraq and Kuwait during the first Persian Gulf War as a petroleum supply specialist and truck driver.

Miyasato said he received an honorable discharge from active duty in 1991, then served in the reserves until 1996 to fulfill his eight-year enlistment commitment.

The Army announced last year that it would involuntarily activate an estimated 5,600 soldiers to serve in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere. Army officials would be tapping members of the Individual Ready Reserve — military members who have been discharged from the Army, Army Reserve or the Army National Guard, but still have contractual obligations to the military.

Miyasato said he never re-enlisted, signed up for any bonuses or was told that he had been transferred to the Individual Ready Reserve or any other Army Reserve unit.

"I fulfilled my contract," Miyasato said. "I just want to move on from this, and I'm optimistic that I'll be successful."

Miyasato speculated that he may have been picked because his skills as a truck driver and refueler are in demand in Iraq. He told reporters he did the same work as that done by a group of Army reservists who refused to deliver fuel along a dangerous route in Iraq last month.
=================================================

Link: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...d=519&ncid=716

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

pan6467

PS Loco: Iran has already stated that they would not hestitate to use nukes if we made any move they deemed hostile to them. Hope you are wrong.... pray to God you are wrong... because we have some truly dumbass people who have "we can do anything because we are the shit" attitudes and they see that threat as an invite to attack.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Locobot

look at the up side: the drinking age will be 18 again!

I've heard though that alcohol is prohibited in our middle east bases and operations. Is this still true? Sounds like a clear recipe for mutiny to me.

pan6467

Yeah because Muslim is a dry religion I think almost every Arab country over there is dry and treat alcohol possession as a serious crime.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"