Lebell

What is with these guys? I have consistently thought that their activities have been designed to blackmail the US, S.Korea and Japan into giving them economic aid, but I am still convinced that that they are also wrangling to get into a position to attack and invade S.Korea (their self admitted goal is reunification of the Korean penninsula under N.Korean leadership.)

Just a few months ago N. Korean fighters attempted to force a US surveillence plane flying in international airspace to land in N. Korea and now this happens:

-------------------------------------------------

FULL STORY HERE


U.S.: N. Korea May Have Fired Laser

1 hour, 5 minutes ago

By SANG-HUN CHOE, Associated Press Writer

SEOUL, South Korea - North Korea (news - web sites)'s military may have aimed a laser at a U.S. helicopter in March, a U.S. official said Tuesday, shortly after the North reaffirmed its decision to nullify an agreement to remain free of nuclear weapons.

The aircraft's sensors detected the unknown type of laser while it was flying near the heavily fortified frontier that divides the two Koreas, the U.S. military official said on condition of anonymity. No one was injured and no equipment was damaged in the incident.

(snip)

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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

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Daval

North Korea is a super dangerous threat to world security. I dearly hope that this is number one on the US's priority list, but I fear that Mr. Bush will ignore this in favour of Syria or Iran.

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Liquor Dealer

North Korea is like a pit bull with AIDS. They are dangerous - and I doubt anyone could portray them as anything else. But: To whom are they the biggest threat. They are China's pit bull - I would think they are more of a threat to bite the hand that feeds them than anyone else. They are a threat to Japan. A threat Japan will not tolerate. Japan has made it very clear that if N Korea loads any weapon of mass destruction onto any type of delivery system that in its self will be dealt with as an act of war. They made it pretty clear - no debate or discussion is needed. I have tried to stress this in other posts - N Korea has a huge military that is a threat to anyplace that it can reach by foot. N Korea has very little else. What little equipment they do own is in a sad state of disrepair. A few out of date aircraft - a few naval vessels, and the threat of a primative nuclear weapon with a WWII era delivery system. N Korea is a serious threat to China and Russia. That is where they can walk to. They are a threat to Japan with their missiles. A threat to Japan automatically puts them in the sights of the Seventh Fleet. That is much more than N Korea is capable of dealing with. It is the last thing in the world they want to agitate - because if they do - they know it will be the last thing in the world they ever see.

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Kadath

That being the case, LD, was Iraq a threat to us?

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Liquor Dealer

Iraq was not a threat to us - only to their neighbors - the ones they could walk to! The export of terrorism, the funding of terrorists, and the giving of safe haven to them was a threat - a threat not only to us but to the entire world. N Korea could become that type of threat if they continue their efforts to spread what ever nuclear technology they possess to others who are willing to pay for it.

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Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

Dragonlich

Hmm, a homicidal megalomaniacal dictator with weapons of mass destruction, right in the middle of one of the most volatile areas of the planet, which also happens to contain a lot of very important oil... yep, he was a threat all right.

...unless you only count direct military threats to the US mainland as a *real* threat, in which case even the Soviet Union wasn't.

Simple_Min

NK known to have nukes, Iraq alleged to have nukes. NK having a large enough force to invade it's neighbors. Iraq being no threat to anyone.

Yep, i guess oil was the reason.

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If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.

Liquor Dealer

North Korea is the only one so far who claims they actually have nukes - this hasn't been verified by anyone.

"Iraq being no threat to anyone" ?

This statement makes no sense.

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Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

Prophecy

I'm still waiting for China to wise up and cut off all funding to N. Korea. When that happens maybe then we'll see some real progress. Mean while it does seem that Bush doesn't intend to acknowledge that N. Korea is a very serious threat, maybe they aren't a direct threat to the US yet, but a threat none the less. I mean look at what we did to Iraq without proof of nukes and N. Korea has admitted they are working on nuclear something.

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La Fede È Il Mio Schermo,
Non salti Ciecamente In Incertezza,
E Potete Raccogliere Le Ricompense.

Daval

Yes, you are right. North Korea is only an immediate threat to the surrounding nations. But, what North Korea could spark if it does ever get into an armed conflict with Japan, China or Russia is the drawing in of other countries around that region and Bang, people start choosing sides - we have world war III.

After all, World War I started with the murder of just one duke's murder, and was between Austro-Hungary and Russia. That quickly ballooned way out of that little region drawing in countries from all over Europe and all over the world.

And that is what scares the shit out of me, and why the US MUST act and neutralize this real threat. Iraq was a waste of time.

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"It is impossible to obtain a conviction for sodomy from an English jury. Half of them don't believe that it can physically be done, and the other half are doing it."
Winston Churchill

Daval

I seem to remember hearing on CNN or something that the US has admitted knowledge that NK has nukes, they just don't know how many.

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"It is impossible to obtain a conviction for sodomy from an English jury. Half of them don't believe that it can physically be done, and the other half are doing it."
Winston Churchill

Simple_Min

Yeah, right. A country such as NK which spends nearly everything on the military and has nuclear plant contracts with the company that Rummy was in charge of...does not have nukes, yet you turn around and blindly believe Iraq has WMD. Iraq - a country under seiege since 1992 and it's power and influence stripped long before this war. Which of these two countries is in a better economic position and has the urge to develop/posess WMD?

Which part of "Iraq being no threat to anyone" did not make sense? Which country expressed concerns about a "threat"? Isreal. Why do they posess WMD's? The answer to that question can be found in another question, Why did the Russians want nukes when it was found out Americans had nukes, and why did the British want nukes when they found our the russians had nukes because americans had nukes?

What ever happend to the sites Powell presented to the UN in that nice PowerPoint slides. He was confident 200% those sites were labs.

The_Dude

ADD

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mirevolver

There is a wild card in the North Korea situation. The wild card is China. If North Korea provokes the United States by marching into South Korea, sending a missile to Japan or possibly trying to hit Ankorage or Seattle with a missile, then China will turn its back on North Korea and tell them that they brought it on themselves.

But if we start making aggressive moves toward North Korea, such as a troop buildup along the DMZ, conducting war games close to the North Korean border or by flying preadators and U2s over North Korea then China will enter in on North Korea's side and we would be faced with war with China.

Remember: It was China that saved North Korea in the Korean War.

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ToiletDuck

Man, why did you bring Iraq into this thread? Youve tainted what might have been a good discussion.

MSD

It's worse than that, intelligence data on Korean missile programs indicates that the recently developed 3-stage Taepo Dong II missile could effectively hit as fara away as TExas or New York, and much of Western Europe.

Kadath

Indeed. I just enjoy seeing people jump from rock to rock in their attempts to support the regime's decisions.

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XenuHubbard

China will not be on North Korea's side in a war. The cold war is over, and the ties between the two countries has always been very unstable. During the Korean war, China was bombed, and it was known that among others MacArthur wanted to take the war to Beijing. The most effective solution for China was to help North Korea out. Otherwise, China would sit with American military bases right next to the border.

What North Korea is doing right now, is trying to make sure that there will be no war, and no sanctions. Basically to continue as before.

Bush Jr. made a huge mistake by announcing that North Korea was part of the Axis of Evil. Of course this would result in Pyongyang-paranoia. They were being told they were next. Telling the world this served no purpose; it should have been kept quiet, and negotiations shold have been initiated.

The largest problem is that North Korea's reactions are incredibly difficult to predict. The secrecy around decisions made is very effective.

US' largest problem is that if North Korea is attacked, relations with South Korea will be damaged forever. Most people in both Korea's wants to see a unified Korea in the future, and consider both countries to consist of one people; Koreans. Some of the words that have been used by Bush Jr. lately could be seen as racist against Koreans (calling N.Korea evil, calling Kim Jong-Il a "midget"), and Anti-US sentiment is very strong in South Korea right now.

In my eyes, this situation has been handled in a very inane way by the Bush administration.

As for Kim Jong-Il's war-drums; don't underestimate him. He's not getting ready to attack, he's whipping up a frenzy in his own country to make the resistance heavier if the US goes in. North Korea has been doing this for ages.

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Dragonlich

Ah, but why would the US go in at all? It's much easier to just go on talking, while the North-Korean economy goes down the drains, and the regime with it. The US has the luxury of being able to wait it out, while North-Korea does not.

In the end, either the North-Koreans give in, or they'll have to initiate a war. The former allows the regime to survive, the latter will be the end, even if China decides to intervene, which I doubt.

guthmund

I think North Korea has been trying to provoke us for a while now.

I also think, based on the newstories and television coverage, that China isn't too happy with Kim Jong Il either. I imagine there will be a brouhaha over this the next couple of months, but ultimately it's going to be China that tells North Korea to sit down.

Did I read that right? A fricken laser? That's James Bond cool, all things considered.

How come America doesn't have a really big laser? or better yet, portable lasers.....or sharks with lasers????

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mirevolver

We do have big lasers. In fact the Air Force is currently devoloping a new model of the AC-130 gunship that has a laser weapon mounted on the plane. If the tests are successful we will have a weapon capable of instantly destroying a ground target.

I love having military friends. They give some great info.

I think one possible (extreme) solution is to tell China that they need to tell Kim-Jong-Il to shut up and that if China doesn't then we will give South Korea and Japan nuclear weapons. However, it is a risky and extreme solution because it could lead to an Asian arms race. But what makes it a possible solution is that China doesn't want Japan or South Korea to have nuclear weapons.

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guthmund

That is so cool

I'm not usually for wanton destruction and the like, but c'mon....it's a LASER!

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