MilleniumZeus

I am polically sterile and a registered democrat. When I talk to my wife about issues, she says I have become more of a Republican. PLease help. Can't battle with wits, without a sense of what I amtalking about. Thanks.

The_Dude

well, libertarian is a good alternative.

you're moderate/conservative on monetary policy, but liberal/left wing on social issues.

i'd still vote democrat though, to me civil liberties is more important than monetary issues.

if the libertarians could get something done, vote libertarian, till that day vote democrat.

anyway, what are your viewpoints on issues?

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Liquor Dealer

In the area where I live you either register and vote Republican or you don't get to vote in most elections. The only time that the Democratic Party has a legitimate candidate is at the state level and often they don't present a viable candidate at all. Because of this most of our elections are settled in the party primary. We do have a Democrat for a governor right now but there are few other Democrats in important positions. That said, I don't think anyone should ever consider party when voting in an election at the local level. I do my best to vote for the candidate and not the party. Here it is easy to do that because there might be seven Republican candidates in the primary. Who evere wins the primary usually doesn't even campaign for the regular election. The idea of registering as an independent or as a Liberterian in this area would basically be giving up your fight to vote.

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Peetster

Liberal viewpoint: You are rich. You didn't know you were, but you are. You are a policeman making $52,000 a year, your wife is a substitute schoolteacher making $40,000 a year. Your family income is way too much. We are going to take your money from you and give it to the less fortunate. After all, they need it more than you.

Conservative viewpoint: You work hard. You and your wife deserve to keep as much of your money as possible. After all, it's your money. In fact, we should reduce the amount of money we take from you. Then you will spend it on things that improve the economy like a jet ski or a cabin. Then the jet ski industry and the cabin industry will do better, and they will make more money. They will gladly pay a fraction of that money in taxes, since they are doing better. Amazingly, the amount of money the government collects goes up.

gov135

Just to have some fun with Peetster, and cause there are two sides to every coin:

Conservative viewpoint: Stamp on peoples civil rights. Support initiatives that take your taxpayers money and give it to various religious groups. Take taxpayer money and give to corporations in the form of taxbreaks, while not receiving guarentees they will stick around. Always support corporate interests over the interests of the environment. Women should not choose, our God has chosen for them. Medicare and Social Security and other social programs are not worth strengthing. Instead, we'll let you buy jetskis through tax cuts.

Liberal viewpoint: Protect civil rights. Religion has no place in government, our founders knew this two hundred plus years ago. Women are powerful and smart. Infrastructure and education will help America, not the CEO of a firm. The less fortunate are capable and ready, and will be helped but not kept on the public till. Education is a right. Medicare and Social Security are important to our elderly.

And Peetster, I hate more than anything conservatives that claim they are on the side of the little guy like a policeman or teacher. Why is it that both the policeman and teacher's union historically support and vote Democrats? Cause thats who looks out for the little guy and their families, while conservatives cut deals with corporations and stay rich.

Hey, Assman, I don't have the answer for you. Neither does anyone else in this thread. But I'd recommend that you find one or two issues that you feel strongly about, and align yourself with the party that most closely resembles your position on that issue(s).

Kadath

As has been stated, Republican/Democrat are not the best terms to use. You need to consider your opinion on a variety of topics such as welfare, economic policy, the military, crime, on and on. You can be conservative about some topics and liberal about others. To decide who to vote for, figure out which issues are most important to you in the given election, determine each candidate's views on those topics, and vote for the one who most closely parallels your own. This is similar to gov135's advice, though I would ignore party affiliation for the most part if you truly want to look at the candidate's ideals. If you want a flag to rally around, I've no help for you.

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MilleniumZeus

Thank you all. You all have been a big help. Thanks again.

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Peetster

Like the right to keep and bear arms. Or the right to choose the best school for your kids. Or the right to go to whatever church you want. That's not stomping.

Quote:

Support initiatives that take your taxpayers money and give it to various religious groups. Take taxpayer money and give to corporations in the form of taxbreaks, while not receiving guarentees they will stick around. Always support corporate interests over the interests of the environment. Women should not choose, our God has chosen for them. Medicare and Social Security and other social programs are not worth strengthing. Instead, we'll let you buy jetskis through tax cuts.

Here you are clearly confusing liberal/conservative with Democrat/Republican. John F. Kennedy was staunchly conservative, especially fiscally, and a Democrat.

Quote:

Liberal viewpoint: Protect civil rights. Religion has no place in government, our founders knew this two hundred plus years ago.

Seperation of Church and State does NOT mean religion has no place in government. Our founding fathers only wanted to prevent what was an entrenched, State sponsored religious arm of the British government. If you read any body of work by any of the founding fathers you will find that religion had everything to do with the creation of this country.

Quote:

Women are powerful and smart. Infrastructure and education will help America, not the CEO of a firm. The less fortunate are capable and ready, and will be helped but not kept on the public till. Education is a right. Medicare and Social Security are important to our elderly.

Of course women are powerful and smart. You can find clear examples of female leadership across the entire political spectrum. The 'less fortunate" fall into two groups. Some are capable and ready, but I suggest that many more are not. It's too easy living on the handouts. Education has been totally mismanaged by the government. The public school system is an expensive joke. Large government programs always wind up costing more than they benefit.

Quote:

And Peetster, I hate more than anything conservatives that claim they are on the side of the little guy like a policeman or teacher. Why is it that both the policeman and teacher's union historically support and vote Democrats? Cause thats who looks out for the little guy and their families, while conservatives cut deals with corporations and stay rich.

Hate is a poor way to deal with contradictory statements. Again, I carefully worded my opinions avoiding the terms Democrat and Republican. They are not synonymous with Liberal and Conservative. Socialist styled programs always look like a good deal to the 85% of the population that pay 15% of the total tax bill. It's the 15% of the population, paying 85% of the tax bill, that start businesses, create jobs and move the economy forward. If my tax bill were halved, I would immediately hire five more people. That's five new jobs. That's far better than the government hiring five more civil servants, don't you think?
[/B][/QUOTE]

smooth

Would you explain your equation to me? I don't run a small business and have no idea the amount of taxes you pay--but here's what I've got so far:

5 workers * 40 hrs/wk * 4 wks/month * 12 months/year * 6.50 /hr (minimum wage, no benefits-health, retirement, or otherwise) = $62,400.

Your taxes would need to be at least $124,800 (excluding payroll taxes) just to break even. Do I have that figured correctly?

Peetster

No, that's way low. Net last year was $23 Million. Last month's tax bill was closer to $200,000.

The_Dude

ok, let's take a quick count of civil liberties that the republicans are generally against.

against

abortion rights

the patriot act

for

funding for religious groups

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smooth

Thank you, that's what I was wondering. Now I guess the next step is if Bush's tax cuts really halve your ~$200,000 bill. The problem I forsee is that even if it doesn't, Bush can claim it would have if he had received what he asked for; and he can claim credit it everything works out--so he wins either way even if you and I don't.

ARTelevision

not identifying with a particular party seems the most straightforward way to go.
of course, you'll be pigeonholed by both.
but so what?
you don't have to choose.
"doctrinaire" is a negative adjective...

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Gusev

I consider myself fiscally conservative and socially liberal, but every time I hear a Libertarian on the radio I find that they sound reactionary and extremist. It's hard for me to take the party seriously when their leading figures sound like quacks...

Thus, I'm forced to stay where I am - a registered independent who tries to find pro-choice Republicans or Democrats who don't want to tax me to death!

The_Dude

libertarian as reactionary and extremist?? wow

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Leander

I think Kadath had it right, we need to look at the spectrum of a candidate's views, not one or two particular issues. It is the one issue voters that scare the bejeezus out of me, as in the "I'm pro-life and I vote that way" bumper stickers. I'm not upset that anyone is pro-life, or pro-choice, but I am that people narrow such a broad decision down to one lightning rod issue. Any vote cast should be about the candidate you are voting for, not the animal they represent.

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Peetster

Well put. Thanks Art.

rogue49

GDI here, God-Damned Independent.

Both major parties have a tendency to spend money very well.
And stick their noses in where they shouldn't.
And I'm sure that if other gained power they would too.

The thing is to just each platform, proposal & representive on their own merits.
You don't have to categorize yourself.

Look at the whole picture, check out the background,
listen to ALL sides.
Then go with your gut,
you'll more than likely pick the one that will represent you best.

Because in the end, that's all the matters,
everything else is just rhetoric.

guthmund

Republicans AND Democrats......?

There are two parties.....?

Wow. I seem to remember there being two distinctly different parties, but that was long ago.....before indoor plumbing....I think.

I thought we only ran Republicrats or Demicans, and they're just different flavors of the same party.

Don't choose any party, the differences are hard to divine.
If all else fails listen to Rogue...he seems to have a good head on his shoulders. (God-Damned Independent, indeed )

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