Liquor Dealer

You guys from Canada don't have to get up early tomorrow. He isn't coming. Something about Column B.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/apr2003/can-a28.shtml


Bush cancels Ottawa visit


Canada’s right wing has enthusiastically welcomed US President George W. Bush’s cancellation of a May 5 visit to Ottawa, citing it as proof that the Chrétien Liberal government has imperilled Canada’s geopolitical position and economy by failing to join the US-British invasion of Iraq.

The White House claims that the Iraq war has made inordinate demands on the president’s time, forcing him to change his schedule. But the cancellation is patently a deliberate snub.

Top US government officials have repeatedly voiced their anger and dismay that Canada balked at joining the “coalition of the willing.” Speaking to a select group of Canadian businessmen last month, US Ambassador Paul Cellucci said Canada’s failure to join Washington’s war coalition would lead to “short-term strains” in Canada-US relations. Asked what form those strains might take, Cellucci replied, “You’ll have to wait and see.”

Adding insult to injury, the day after it was made public Bush would not be coming to Ottawa, the White House announced that the president has invited Australian Prime Minister John Howard to visit his Texas ranch May 2-3.


The following poll shows what our good friends, the Canadian think about us - (From Vive le Canada -"our country, our voice)



Poll
How would you describe the U.S. relationship to Canada?
Like best friends or family. 1 (2.13)%
Close but with some problems. 4 (8.51)%
Self-centred but cordial. 9 (19.15)%
Threatening/bullying. 33 (70.21)%


http://www.vivelecanada.ca/pollbooth...ionship&aid=-1

__________________
Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

maximusveritas

What I want to know is, what are you doing on the "World Socialist Web Site"?
Judging from the poll, I think Bush's cancellation can only help Chrétien rather than hurt him. Personally, I'd rather have a leader like Chrétien than a yes-man like Howard.

smooth

Probably keeping tabs on what people like me are reading. Similar to my reasoning when I watch FOX every once in a while.

__________________
"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

Lebell

Bush intends to show the world that you can't snub us and then not expect to be snubbed in return.

Why this surprises anyone is beyond me.

__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU!

Please Donate!

splck

No surprises here...I kinda thought this would happen. It would have surprised me if the shrub showed up...not that I care one way or the other.
It's funny how both the left and the right try and make political hay out of the situation.

__________________
nice line eh?

Phaenx

Only 47 people took the poll? Is that what those numbers next to the text are supposed to represent?

__________________
"I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy

Macheath

He's cancelling it for a weekend of luuuurrrvee with Johnny 'Wadd' Howard and Janette Sprinkle down at the ranch.

*cue 70s porno music*

Liquor Dealer

"What I want to know is, what are you doing on the "World Socialist Web Site"?"

It is common knowledge he had cancelled this trip but I had a problem finding a source - In this instance, as in all, someone would have asked for a link and believe it or not - at that tme that was all google came up with for - Canada - May 5 - Bush.

__________________
Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

james t kirk

he he he.

Try www.globeandmail.com It is our national newpaper, well respected, fairly unbiased though slightly conservative. If you want liberal try www.torontostar.ca or right wing www.nationalpost.com


The Globe and Mail had some interesting columns on how Bush has demonstrated his lack of statemanship in his decision, and on how this demonstrates his attitude toward Canada.

One guy had an interesting point, the rebuilding of Iraq is going to cost billions, and Bush, if he was smart, would have pressured Canada to contribute more towards that out of our budget surplus (Unlike the American massive deficits due to Bush league economics.)

47 people out of 31 million, boy, there's a representative cross section.

Liquor Dealer

Well, I used all three of your sources and didn't find it either. I really hadn't noticed the database on the poll but I am guessing, especially if one considers the comments by Canadian posters on this board, that it is probably close to the result one would have gotten from all Canadians east of Alberta. I had never thought about this before when you quoted the population - 31 Million people - and what - 90-95% of those live in a 50 mile wide area on the US/Canadian border? That's awfully close to people you don't trust and are afraid of.

__________________
Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

gibber71

You also have to remember that the 70% who feel the U.S are bully's only briefly pulled their heads out of their asses to respond to that poll.

Shokan

This is getting to be like kindergarden.

"I won't come to your house cuz you didn't play with me last week!"

__________________
Legalize it.

boatin

Ah, the sophisticated diplomatic approach. Inspiring.

I'm not particularly blaming Bush for this - it does seem to be the way diplomacy is handled. But I keep hoping for a higher level of performance by our presidents.

Snubbing just appeals to the baser instincts, and tends to escalate. Just a dreamer, I guess.

Liquor Dealer

Boatin- I think you are seeing the performance of a president. He doesn't turn the other cheek - He explains, in language some choose to make fun of, exactly what he means and exactly what he intends to do - then he totally goes against what has been presidential in our recent past - he does exactly what he said he was going to do. I don't understand when people don't understand where he is coming from - he tells them - and then does it - Canada has chosen sides - in many opinions they chose the wrong side. He is going to let them have what they chose - that is the democratic way is it not?

__________________
Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

james t kirk

You need to edit that.

You should say, "from all Canadians east AND WEST of Alberta.

You have obviously never been to British Columbia there LD.

For the record, I like Americans just fine. I find you an interesting lot, which is why i post here from time to time.

When 911 happened, i offered my house to billet any americans stranded without a place to go when US airspace was shut down. I gave money to a 911 charity that was set up here at the Royal Bank.

Maybe you should check out this site

http://overtimeacres.com/gander.html

I have helped many a lost American tourist find a good place to stay, or a good restaurant.

I just don't like the jingoistic rhetoric coming out of Washington and I am not to keen on the war on Iraq cause i figure that killing people is usually wrong, and i don't think it had come to that yet. Sorry if that makes you feel like we took a collective pee in your cheerios.

crewsor

james t kirk, posts this;

Then this;

Seems to be a bit conflicted, eh.

__________________
We all have wings, some of us just don't know why.

james t kirk

i can still like americans just fine, and not support the war for all of the aforementioned reasons.

Most people i know would say that one on one, americans can be some of the most generous people in the world. But collectively, you can be a bit scary.

splck

With respect LD, Bush had this attitude towards Canada long before Iraq and 9/11. It doesn’t bother me that he's not visiting Canada, it just shows his true character.
This whole thing seems a bit childish to me, but what do I know

__________________
nice line eh?

The_Dude

not surprised that bush stayed

__________________
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

smooth

I think that democracy is more accurately described as everyone saying their piece, everyone votes, the majority wins, then the group does what the majority decided. However, the majority should not chastise the minority voters for expressing their opinions--that would suppress and tarnish the democratic process.

Now, in this case, a sovereign nation did not agree with our standpoint, didn't see the world affairs the same way we did, and listened to the majority of its citizens. To castigate the country for a difference of opinion is not following the tenets of democracy--it's following the Bush line of "those not with us are against us." Whether you agree with that sentiment or not is immaterial to it not resembling democratic ideals.

__________________
"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

Liquor Dealer

"Canada has chosen sides - in many opinions they chose the wrong side. He is going to let them have what they chose - that is the democratic way is it not?"

Don't take it out of context. Don't read anything in to it. Take it for exactly what is says.

1. Canada made a choice of who to support and who not to support.

2. Many of us feel they made the wrong choice.

3. Bush is letting them have exactly what they chose.

4. Letting them have what they chose = democratic way.


Simple.

__________________
Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

Chug

hm... if I was the president of America, I wouldn't snub the Canadians in return for them not joining in the war. Instead, why not just improve on the relationship between the US and Canada by Bush coming to Ottawa and showing how Americans are open-minded people, and are willing to reconcile differences, instead of choosing to snub back at people/nations who have different opinions than the US.

pangavan

What do people expect? Members of the present government in Canada have gotten alot of press by personally insulting president Bush, calling him an idiot and a moron. Now that he chooses not to visit it must be all about the war? I dont think so. And considering this is a man who can and does hold a grudge this is probably just the beginning.
Now I really dont care what canadians think about my pesident, just like I'm sure they dont want to hear my opinions of there government. But when Elected officials start spouting personal opinions like they were offical policy the other cheek will not be offered.

__________________
He is, moreover, a frequent drunkard, a glutton, and a patron of ladies who are no better than they should be.

smooth

You asked a question and I answered it, I didn't take anything out of context. You seem to be missing a vital step:

5. Everyone remains at the table and each participant is respected for his or her difference of opinion--respect and maturity are vital components to a healthy democratic debate.

__________________
"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

Liquor Dealer

Contrary to the whole context you had to add something to it to get what you want to read into it. There was no #5.

__________________
Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

james t kirk

Very true.

They (the ones who shoot off their mouths) look like a bunch of apes.

But it's not limited to our politicians I can assure you.

Nixon used to call Trudeau "that asshole up north"

Johnson once grabbed Pearson by the suit lapels and physically shook him because Pearson (nobel peace price winner) would not support him in Vietnam.

Pat Buchanan regularly mouths off calling us "Soviet Canukistan" and saying, "Canada is like arthritis, you only notice it when it acts up"

After 911 when Bush gave his famous speach before congress, he didn't mention Canada, didn't mention how there were 100,000 people at a memorial on Parliament Hill given by Chretien, didn't mention how Canadians took travellers stranded into their own homes - Gander Nfld for example.

Before you think everyone hates you, you should check this out

http://www.cbc.ca/cgi-bin/templates/.../canmem_010914

The man has treated this country like a piece of shit from the get go for some reason. I read in the Globe and Mail that Fox from Mexico feels the exact same way and he and Chretien have actually talked about the issue.

Quite a change when Bill Clinton came to Ottawa and addressed a packed parliament and got a standing ovation.

http://archives.cbc.ca/400d.asp?IDCa...Lan=1&IDMenu=0

Daval

Excellent point in my opinion. Cancelling the trip and then the very next day inviting the Australian president is just going to make things worse.

To be quite honest, I am quite happy that Mr. Bush cancelled his trip, but the reason I feel this way is because the NDP and some Alliance members were promising to heckle and boo him as he addressed the Canadian Parliament. THat would have been totaly unappropriate behaviour in my opinion and would have cause irrepairable damage to already fragile Canada-US relations.


About the poll. I totally dispute the results. I think that if a proper nationwide poll was taken there would be a response more in line with 'Close but with some problems'. At least thats how I feel.

Daval

I do agree however that the problems are not one-dimensional and only caused by our incompetent liberal government who apparently do not see the value in close ties.

George Bush has also snubbed Canada several times and has obviously made it apparent that we are very low on his priority list. Even well before any of the recent problems came to light.

If only Mr. Gore had become presidentl, our relations would be much, MUCH different. *sighs*

smooth

*sigh* Obviously I can't convince you that respect is an important part of both the democratic process and diplomacy. Hopefully the president (or someone in the forefront of foreign policy) realizes that before someone blows another crater in another metropolis.

__________________
"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman