Arnold in Wonderland - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Rodney · 03-03-2004, 09:00 PM

Well, I have to admit it -- Ahnuld is holding his own as governor of California. Between Democrats and the ultra-right wing of his own party (which controls the Republican party apparatus in California), I thought he'd be a goner in trying to deal with such big problems as the California budget deficit and so on.

But the bond financing proposition he proposed to cover part of the state deficit actually passed -- went from 30 percent approval to over 50 percent in the last month or so, solely because of Arnold's nonstop campaigning and his ability to connect. And it passed, along with a balanced budget amendment.

He could still crash. Lot of other serious issues coming up, including workers's comp reform. But I've got to hand it to him. None of the traditional pols out here came anywhere close to doing what he's done to fix the budget deficit; they were all too beholden the special interests.

I don't agree with everything he's doing, but I think that his ideas are at least valid and have some fairness. I just hope he doesn't also get tied up in special interests; he's taking more and more of their money.

But for now, good job.

smooth · 03-04-2004, 12:08 AM

We've just been saddled with over 30 billion dollars of debt, for the next few decades. That's the same type of "remedy" he was castigating Davis during the recall campaign.

We've haven't even done anything to address the unbalanced budget--he still has to wallow through that. And we're going to end up paying this huge amount of money at the same time interest rates start to skyrocket again.

Everyone who is overextended on credit right now is about to lose their assets in the near future. I think of this as one last wrenching of whatever assets the middle class still possessed. Now our state has been in a similar dire position, and our services (along with the impoverished and people scraping by) are going to feel the final crunch.

Boo · 03-04-2004, 12:14 AM

How many companies are planning to change states right now? The loss of tax base could create another larger problem.

smooth · 03-04-2004, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Boo
How many companies are planning to change states right now? The loss of tax base could create another larger problem.

Companies aren't fleeing the state, I think that's B.S. Not only is California very pro-business, companies (like the people) have access to wonderful climate and beautiful areas to reside in.

Regardless, I wish large companies would leave. Then we might actually see the action of the free market--small businesses would rise to accomodate demand. The difference between if that happened and now would be that California would become a hot-spot for progressive companies. I see that as positive--a business culture that was in line with the street (or working) culture.

Downtownat10 · 03-04-2004, 06:21 AM

So, with Arnold's recent comments on allowing immigrants to become president, do you guys think he could perhaps be the next Ronald Reagan?

Ustwo · 03-04-2004, 06:38 AM

If I were him I'd have let the fucking state go broke. California got what it deserved when they voted for an asshat like Davis in the first place.

Lebell · 03-04-2004, 09:35 AM

I've thought about the California budget crisis and my own suggestion to Arnold is this:

Eliminate CalOSHA and CalEPA.

They are massive duplications of Federal programs which I don't think are providing Californians with any additional benefit.

smooth · 03-04-2004, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lebell
I've thought about the California budget crisis and my own suggestion to Arnold is this:

Eliminate CalOSHA and CalEPA.

They are massive duplications of Federal programs which I don't think are providing Californians with any additional benefit.

Thanks for the interest, but I'd rather keep paying for both. Besides, is CalEPA really a duplication anymore

If we are to eliminate anything, it should be massive corporate tax loopholes. Angelides had a proposal to bring taxes back to their previous levels--under Wilson and Reagan.

That sage advice was ignored by both Arnold, the media, and consequently the people. So no, Arnold isn't going to be the next Reagan--beyond the fact that his comments don't amount to shit in terms of what Congress has to do in order for him to even run.

He hasn't done anything magnificent right now, whereas Reagan actually guided this state in some very beneficial endeavors. Case in point: Reagan developed the higher education system we currently have, Arnold is undermining it. He's using his celebrity status to ramrod bad policy into law.

There is a reason we had a constitutional amemdment against this type of borrowing for close to 200 years--that's a big chunk of history to wipe under the table to do the exact policy implementations he accused Davis of doing, and which he laid the blame of our economic woes on. Of course, it shouldn't have been any surprise to see Davis appearing next to Arnold endorsing this action--it's the same damn plan Davis was going to do before angry voters kicked his ass out for manipulating the budget numbers without any real fix.

Well, we still don't have a real fix. We don't even have a fake fix--this bond doesn't address the budget imbalance. It rolls all the past debt into one big package and refinances it for the next few decades--thanks!

I'm sure my grandchildren are really going to appreciate paying back a however many billions of dollars that we have been spending to lock up drug offenders and people stealing video tapes, etc. Especially since by the time this loan is finally paid, the criminal justice programs we are currently using will look pretty stupid to that future generation--they're already looking too costly to us now.

smooth · 03-04-2004, 11:33 AM

BTW, we shouldn't be surprised that this outcome occurred. It's not as though people don't understand or know what I'm talking about--it just doesn't fit our culture anymore.

People claim our government ought to model those households; ironically, it seems to be doing exactly that.

I don't think the middle class reduces spending to remain within their budget, though; rather, they buy on credit.

Here's a portion of an article today that supports what I was stating:

Quote:

State finance officials will rush to sell the bonds approved Tuesday as quickly as possible. They hope to secure the money in time to cover $14 billion in short-term loans that the state must repay to a syndicate of banks in June.

They already have formed a working group that includes Schwarzenegger's finance director, the state controller, the treasurer and others, and will map out how to get the state the best interest rates on any borrowing, which would be repaid over the next 8 to 14 years.

This week the state will name a finance team of underwriters, bond counsel and financial advisors to push the bond sale. State Treasurer Phil Angelides noted that it would be "the largest municipal bond sale in U.S. history."

Experts question whether passage of the two ballot measures warrants the kind of celebration evident at Tuesday's victory party, where the drink of the night was a "poinsettia," a blend of champagne [how about stop buying fucking champagne on the public's money, for starters] and cranberry juice, and the emcee was radio disc jockey Rick Dees.

Wall Street rating agencies on Wednesday applauded California voters for approving the deficit bond issue, raising their outlook on California finances — although not the state's credit ratings [interest rates are contingent on credit ratings, BTW]. But they urged lawmakers to quickly close the gap between what the state spends and what it takes in.

Until the Legislature and Schwarzenegger pare the structural deficit that has plagued the state budget for the last three years, the rating agencies said California cannot expect to see improvement in its worst-in-the-nation credit standing.

Even with Tuesday's vote, "The state's increased ability to sell bonds to fund current operations merely postpones the difficult taxation or expenditure reduction decisions," said Standard & Poor's analyst David Hitchcock.

"They've bought themselves some time. We'll see how they make use of it."

Without decisive steps toward shrinking the structural deficit, Hitchcock said, the state again could find itself in a serious cash crisis.

--http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-bonds4mar04,1,6719131.story?coll=la-home-local

03-03-2004, 09:00 PM	#1 (permalink)
Rodney Observant Ruminant Location: Rich Wannabe Hippie Town	Arnold in Wonderland Well, I have to admit it -- Ahnuld is holding his own as governor of California. Between Democrats and the ultra-right wing of his own party (which controls the Republican party apparatus in California), I thought he'd be a goner in trying to deal with such big problems as the California budget deficit and so on. But the bond financing proposition he proposed to cover part of the state deficit actually passed -- went from 30 percent approval to over 50 percent in the last month or so, solely because of Arnold's nonstop campaigning and his ability to connect. And it passed, along with a balanced budget amendment. He could still crash. Lot of other serious issues coming up, including workers's comp reform. But I've got to hand it to him. None of the traditional pols out here came anywhere close to doing what he's done to fix the budget deficit; they were all too beholden the special interests. I don't agree with everything he's doing, but I think that his ideas are at least valid and have some fairness. I just hope he doesn't also get tied up in special interests; he's taking more and more of their money. But for now, good job.

03-04-2004, 12:14 AM	#3 (permalink)
Boo Leave me alone! Location: Alaska, USA	How many companies are planning to change states right now? The loss of tax base could create another larger problem. __________________ Back button again, I must be getting old.

03-04-2004, 06:21 AM	#5 (permalink)
Downtownat10 Crazy Location: A Fortified Compound, East Coast	So, with Arnold's recent comments on allowing immigrants to become president, do you guys think he could perhaps be the next Ronald Reagan? __________________ Heh. Oops. Sorry about that one...

03-04-2004, 06:38 AM	#6 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	If I were him I'd have let the fucking state go broke. California got what it deserved when they voted for an asshat like Davis in the first place. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

03-04-2004, 09:35 AM	#7 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	I've thought about the California budget crisis and my own suggestion to Arnold is this: Eliminate CalOSHA and CalEPA. They are massive duplications of Federal programs which I don't think are providing Californians with any additional benefit. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

03-04-2004, 12:08 AM	#2 (permalink)
smooth Junkie Location: Right here	We've just been saddled with over 30 billion dollars of debt, for the next few decades. That's the same type of "remedy" he was castigating Davis during the recall campaign. We've haven't even done anything to address the unbalanced budget--he still has to wallow through that. And we're going to end up paying this huge amount of money at the same time interest rates start to skyrocket again. Everyone who is overextended on credit right now is about to lose their assets in the near future. I think of this as one last wrenching of whatever assets the middle class still possessed. Now our state has been in a similar dire position, and our services (along with the impoverished and people scraping by) are going to feel the final crunch.