Brazil Begins Fingerprinting U.S. Travelers - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Strange Famous · 01-01-2004, 11:47 AM

Yet more proof of the popularity of American foriegn policy...

Quote:

Brazil Begins Fingerprinting U.S. Travelers

BRASILIA, Brazil (Reuters) - Brazil on Thursday began fingerprinting and photographing U.S. visitors on orders of a judge who compared planned U.S. security controls on travelers from Brazil and other nations to Nazi horrors.

Federal Judge Julier Sebastiao da Silva, furious at U.S. plans to fingerprint and photograph millions of visitors on entering the United States, ordered Brazil's authorities do the same to U.S. citizens starting on Thursday.

"We've begun doing this," said a Federal Police spokeswoman at Brazil's Guarulhos International Airport in Sao Paulo.

The judge's order came after a Brazilian government citizen rights agency filed a complaint in federal court over the U.S. measure.

The US-VISIT system is meant to identify people who have violated immigration controls, have a criminal record or belong to groups the U.S. government lists as terrorist organizations.

Starting on Monday, people who need visas to enter the United States will be fingerprinted and photographed when they pass through immigration at major U.S. airports and seaports.

The measure does not apply to citizens of 27, mainly European, nations who do not need a visa to enter the United States.

"I consider the act absolutely brutal, threatening human rights, violating human dignity, xenophobic and worthy of the worst horrors committed by the Nazis," said Sebastiao da Silva in the court order released on Tuesday.

Officials at the U.S. Embassy in Brazil were not immediately available to comment on Brazil's decision.

Brazil requires U.S. citizens to have a visa when entering the country.

seretogis · 01-01-2004, 11:58 AM

Yeah, photographing and fingerprinting people coming across our borders is exactly like stuffing live people into furnaces, packing them naked into shower rooms and gassing them to death, forcing other prisoners to bury them in mass graves, and using their hair and teeth as insulation. I am outraged.

By the way, please start posting a link to wherever you get an article. If it's from The Onion, you should clearly note it.

Lebell · 01-01-2004, 11:58 AM

This bothers me not one bit.

Endymon32 · 01-01-2004, 12:06 PM

And if America did that to any nationality of tourists, YOU and your fellow lefties would scream oppression.

Strange Famous · 01-01-2004, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by seretogis
Yeah, photographing and fingerprinting people coming across our borders is exactly like stuffing live people into furnaces, packing them naked into shower rooms and gassing them to death, forcing other prisoners to bury them in mass graves, and using their hair and teeth as insulation. I am outraged.

By the way, please start posting a link to wherever you get an article. If it's from The Onion, you should clearly note it.

Its from Yahoo.

And it was not stated that US immigration policy was "like" Endsolung, it was stated that the same mentality is behind both. I personally don't agree with that statement, but I find more disturbing the fact that people are so willing to brand those who attack them as holocaust deniers/holocaust supporters/or people who belittle or diminish the holocaust.

Endymon32 · 01-01-2004, 12:07 PM

Yes please post the source of that article.

Tophat665 · 01-01-2004, 01:35 PM

That's just funny! More power to 'em. Geese and ganders and "Mr. Pot? Mr. Kettle on line 2. Something about color."

I don't want to get into a big hu hu over this, so let me leave it at: if it makes Brazil feel important, they are welcome to do it. their house, their rules.

MSD · 01-01-2004, 09:43 PM

Every country has the right to know who is inside of their borders and be able to identify those people in case any sort of crime is committed or an emergency occurs. The key is to make sure that this information is not abused.

I have a lot of problems with our foreign policy, but this is something that everyone should do for the sake of safety.

Ustwo · 01-01-2004, 10:52 PM

Oh dear I feel so repressed.

Some silly judge wants to make a symbolic gesture, heavens, what has this world come to.

(That was sarcasm)

We should care why?

tritium · 01-01-2004, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by seretogis
Yeah, photographing and fingerprinting people coming across our borders is exactly like stuffing live people into furnaces, packing them naked into shower rooms and gassing them to death, forcing other prisoners to bury them in mass graves, and using their hair and teeth as insulation. I am outraged.

By the way, please start posting a link to wherever you get an article. If it's from The Onion, you should clearly note it.

Amen to that. On both counts...

Endymon32 · 01-01-2004, 11:44 PM

If Americans dont like it, they can stop pouring their tourism dollars into Brazil.

Superbelt · 01-07-2004, 04:32 PM

Ok, know what's really funny about all of this?

Now the US Government is whining about inconveniences to our travellers because of what Brazil is doing, which, is a mirror image retaliation to what we did to them.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/01/07/ter...eat/index.html

Quote:

U.S. tells Brazil to change security program
The U.S. State Department has changed its stance on a new Brazilian security process for U.S. citizens entering the South American nation. Washington is now urging Brazil to alter its new process of fingerprinting and photographing U.S. visitors.

"We have told the Brazilians that we think that these are measures that provide tremendous inconvenience to travelers and that they need to be changed," State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said Tuesday.

Just last week, Boucher's deputy -- J. Adam Ereli -- said the United States understood Brazil's new policy. "This is their sovereign right to do if they want to do it." Ereli said.

Brazil's program began after a similar process was announced for the United States. The US-VISIT program began January 5 and applies to any visitor, including Brazilians, who are required to have visa to enter the United States. Visitors from most European nations are excluded.

Ustwo · 01-07-2004, 04:43 PM

What makes that even more funny is when the 'why' isn't posted in your quote...

Quote:

'While we acknowledge Brazil's sovereign right to determine the requirements for entry into Brazil, we regret the way in which new procedures have suddenly been put in place that single out US citizens for exceptional treatment that has meant lengthy delays in processing, such as the case today with a more than nine hour delay for some US citizens arriving at Rio's international airport,' the US embassy said in a statement.

http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/lat...228700,00.html

Superbelt · 01-07-2004, 04:49 PM

Well, first that wasn't present on the page I saw.

Secondly, yes it is meant to single out americans. It's a retaliation, and as has been posted here. They have the right to do whatever they want at their borders. They're trying to make a point.

The nine hour delays. No elaboration on exactly why some were delayed for so long, nor how many people were delayed that long. "some US citizens" could be just two people who made a fuss at the fingerprinting booth complaining about being treated like criminals and not wanting to get ink on their hands. Maybe security had to be called because of it etc...

Ustwo · 01-07-2004, 05:04 PM

Sorry SB but this is bullshit.

We had a terrorist attack, we lost the lives, we had our economy fucked for an extra year, and we set up a way to fingerprint, photo as best we could for speed.

Brazil got its panties in a bunch, at least one dumbass judge, and wanted to play tit for tat, nevermind that Brazil has nothing to fear from Americans entering its country (though those Americans do in Brazil) just to be an asshat.

Fuck them, this isn't a fucking game, and when/if the next terrorist strike hits I'll bet the same people who think this is somehow 'right' will be the ones bitching that Bush didn't do enough.

Sparhawk · 01-07-2004, 05:17 PM

Brazilians have as much to fear from Americans coming into their country as Americans do from Brazilians coming into ours. (ie ZIP, ZILCH, NADA, ZIPPO, ZERO, THE BIG DONUT) But I also think that other countries should feel free to retaliate when the U.S. comes out with bone-headed policy (remember the steel tariffs?).

Ustwo · 01-07-2004, 05:20 PM

And while we are at it...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,2777310a12,00.html

Quote:

Rio to fight Brazil fingerprinting of US visitors
07 January 2004

RIO DE JANEIRO, Brazil: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil's top travel destination, on Tuesday appealed a court order requiring US tourists to be fingerprinted and photographed.

Rio's deputy attorney general Alberto Guimaraes Junior, also said compensation was being sought from the federal government for losses in tourism earnings. He gave no estimate of the value being claimed.

Earlier on Tuesday, Rio's special secretary for tourism Rubem Medina said that the identification system, which began on Jan. 1 in response to a similar US programme for travellers entering the United States, could halve the number of US tourists to Rio.

"We make an enormous effort to attract and win over US tourists, and a decision like that one puts us at risk of losing everything," he said.

Some 20 per cent of the 350,000 foreign visitors to Rio every year are US tourists, Medina said.

Some US tourists arriving to Rio de Janeiro on Monday were kept waiting up to eight hours, causing many of them to miss connecting flights or a day of sightseeing.

"Ours is all electronic scanning and in and out in a heartbeat. Here it's 15 minutes, 20 minutes per person," said Lorin Hall, a US tourist who arrived in Rio over the weekend.

I begin to think that I'm the only one who tries to find more then one source, to verify his postings, or at least understand what the post is about. I don't see what’s so hard about it.

Lets think of it this way. US changes its stance on Brazil's fingerprinting, brain says 'Why would they do that so soon, there must be a reason'. Fingers type 'www.google.com' and put in Brazil fingerprinting. I find the first story explaining the problem. Then I see a nice link to click up top about the latest story.

I'm not trying to be an ass, it comes naturally, but come on, throw me a bone here.

Astrocloud · 01-14-2004, 09:37 AM

Well, fingerprinting and photographing US citizens should help identify the bodies when they end up kidnapped or dead in Brazil.

http://www.defendu.com/americans_at_...idnapping_.htm

Strange Famous · 01-14-2004, 11:40 AM

Utswo, are you trying to claim that people in America have a greater risk of terrorist attack than people in Brazil?

flamingpeach · 01-14-2004, 11:49 AM

That really doesn't seem so bad.

pangavan · 01-14-2004, 02:47 PM

This must really have the Brazilian police pissed off. In the nine hours that it took to fingerprint those tourists they could have been out raping and killing homeless kids in and around Rio, (can't have them cluttering the streets during carnival can we?).

splck · 01-14-2004, 03:01 PM

hehe, this is funny..nothing like a bit of tit-for-tat.

Ustwo · 01-14-2004, 05:34 PM

Quote:

U.S. Pilot Detained in Brazil in Fingerprint Spat
Wed January 14, 2004 01:42 PM ET

By Todd Benson
SAO PAULO, Brazil (Reuters) - An American Airlines pilot was arrested at Sao Paulo International Airport on Wednesday after making an obscene gesture while being photographed by Brazilian immigration officers, police said.

The pilot, identified as Dale Robin Hirsch, raised his middle finger at police to protest new Brazilian security measures that require U.S. citizens to be fingerprinted and photographed upon entering the South American country.

Brazil implemented the policy on Jan. 1 in retaliation for a similar U.S. program that requires those foreign visitors who need visas to have their fingerprints and pictures taken on arrival in the United States.

"He made an internationally known obscene gesture when he was being photographed by the Federal Police," Federal Police agent Wagner Castilho told Reuters. He said the other crew members were denied entry after refusing to cooperate with security officials.

The incident came just one day after Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva personally appealed to President Bush to suspend visa requirements for each other's nationals and thus fingerprint checks.

Lula's request was expected to fall on deaf ears in Washington. Brazilians are among the top groups of illegal immigrants detained in the United States.

Castilho said the pilot will be charged with disobeying authority. A judge will decide whether Hirsch, 52, will be deported or tried in Brazil, Castilho added.

The remaining 11 members of the Miami-based crew were expected to be returned to the United States.

A spokesman in Sao Paulo for American Airlines said the carrier "respects the laws of the countries in which it operates," but declined further comment.

U.S. citizens have been subject to long lines at Brazilian airports since the new security measures were implemented, prompting Secretary of State Colin Powell to complain that Americans were being discriminated against.

Eager to speed up the process, Brazil on Wednesday rushed to gather digital fingerprint readers from police stations across the country. Officials said they will be ready by Thursday to register U.S. visitors in "30 seconds" rather than the hours it takes with an inkpad.

With Rio de Janeiro's famous Carnival coming in February, the city is worried about the impact on tourism. It has taken to handing out roses and "Rio Loves You" T-shirts to U.S. visitors and on Wednesday laid on hip-wriggling Samba dancers at its airport arrival gate.

If you want to know WHY Brazil isn't on the exempt list, look at the bold print. Personally I think the pilot had the right idea.

nanofever · 01-14-2004, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ustwo
If you want to know WHY Brazil isn't on the exempt list, look at the bold print. Personally I think the pilot had the right idea.

Can we get a link to the site that was posted on ?

Ustwo · 01-14-2004, 06:40 PM

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...toryID=4127496

asterjolly · 01-17-2004, 05:12 AM

actually, this is a continuation of a policy brazil had already had... the reason americans must have a visa to enter brazil (note we dont need one for any other latin american country) is because brazil replicates the process brazilians must go through to get an american visa for americans. even the cost for a brazilian visa for an american is the same as an american visa for brazilians, so i suppose it would make sense that if we start fingerprinting them, theyll start fingerprinting us.

hlprmnky · 01-17-2004, 11:30 AM

asterjolly, that's a really interesting point, and it makes this seem to be much less of a tit-for-tat action targeted *specifically* at the fingerprinting. In fact, this history of Brazil's actions as regards US citizens' visas, illegal immigration into the US from Brazil, etc., would likely make for an interesting story if the media could hold the attention of the average viewer long enough to tell it.

Personally, I'm wondering why we even bothered to implement this scheme in the ass-backwards way we did, with the list of countries for whom the fingerprinting/photography doesn't apply.

I mean, even if we have arrangements with the governments of those countries, and trust them to nab bad guys on their end, the repeated bungles and near-misses involving international air travel over the holidays should demonstrate that our border security needs to be handled, well, at our borders.

Also, it is just like our current administration to either not think about or not care about the fact that the message we *appear* to be sending is "we're worried about terrorism! from, uh, basically just from the brown people." I can't wait for al-Qaeda to start hiring anglo-looking operatives and giving them fake French, Swiss, or German passports. OH GNOS! OUR CAREFULLY-CONSIDERED SECURITY PLAN IS USELESS!!!!1!!oneone

01-01-2004, 11:58 AM	#2 (permalink)
seretogis Huggles, sir? Location: Seattle	Yeah, photographing and fingerprinting people coming across our borders is exactly like stuffing live people into furnaces, packing them naked into shower rooms and gassing them to death, forcing other prisoners to bury them in mass graves, and using their hair and teeth as insulation. I am outraged. By the way, please start posting a link to wherever you get an article. If it's from The Onion, you should clearly note it. __________________ seretogis - sieg heil perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

01-01-2004, 11:58 AM	#3 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	This bothers me not one bit. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

01-01-2004, 01:35 PM	#7 (permalink)
Tophat665 Minion of the scaléd ones Location: Northeast Jesusland	That's just funny! More power to 'em. Geese and ganders and "Mr. Pot? Mr. Kettle on line 2. Something about color." I don't want to get into a big hu hu over this, so let me leave it at: if it makes Brazil feel important, they are welcome to do it. their house, their rules. __________________ Light a man a fire, and he will be warm while it burns. Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

01-01-2004, 10:52 PM	#9 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	Oh dear I feel so repressed. Some silly judge wants to make a symbolic gesture, heavens, what has this world come to. (That was sarcasm) We should care why? __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

01-07-2004, 05:04 PM	#15 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	Sorry SB but this is bullshit. We had a terrorist attack, we lost the lives, we had our economy fucked for an extra year, and we set up a way to fingerprint, photo as best we could for speed. Brazil got its panties in a bunch, at least one dumbass judge, and wanted to play tit for tat, nevermind that Brazil has nothing to fear from Americans entering its country (though those Americans do in Brazil) just to be an asshat. Fuck them, this isn't a fucking game, and when/if the next terrorist strike hits I'll bet the same people who think this is somehow 'right' will be the ones bitching that Bush didn't do enough. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. Last edited by Ustwo; 01-07-2004 at 05:11 PM..

01-01-2004, 12:06 PM	#4 (permalink)
Endymon32 Banned	And if America did that to any nationality of tourists, YOU and your fellow lefties would scream oppression.

01-01-2004, 12:07 PM	#6 (permalink)
Endymon32 Banned	Yes please post the source of that article.

01-01-2004, 09:43 PM	#8 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	Every country has the right to know who is inside of their borders and be able to identify those people in case any sort of crime is committed or an emergency occurs. The key is to make sure that this information is not abused. I have a lot of problems with our foreign policy, but this is something that everyone should do for the sake of safety.

01-01-2004, 11:44 PM	#11 (permalink)
Endymon32 Banned	If Americans dont like it, they can stop pouring their tourism dollars into Brazil.

01-07-2004, 04:49 PM	#14 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	Well, first that wasn't present on the page I saw. Secondly, yes it is meant to single out americans. It's a retaliation, and as has been posted here. They have the right to do whatever they want at their borders. They're trying to make a point. The nine hour delays. No elaboration on exactly why some were delayed for so long, nor how many people were delayed that long. "some US citizens" could be just two people who made a fuss at the fingerprinting booth complaining about being treated like criminals and not wanting to get ink on their hands. Maybe security had to be called because of it etc...

01-07-2004, 05:17 PM	#16 (permalink)
Sparhawk Dubya Location: VA	Brazilians have as much to fear from Americans coming into their country as Americans do from Brazilians coming into ours. (ie ZIP, ZILCH, NADA, ZIPPO, ZERO, THE BIG DONUT) But I also think that other countries should feel free to retaliate when the U.S. comes out with bone-headed policy (remember the steel tariffs?). __________________ "In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

01-14-2004, 09:37 AM	#18 (permalink)
Astrocloud Apocalypse Nerd	Well, fingerprinting and photographing US citizens should help identify the bodies when they end up kidnapped or dead in Brazil. http://www.defendu.com/americans_at_...idnapping_.htm

01-14-2004, 11:40 AM	#19 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	Utswo, are you trying to claim that people in America have a greater risk of terrorist attack than people in Brazil? __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

01-14-2004, 11:49 AM	#20 (permalink)
flamingpeach hip mama Location: redmond, washington	That really doesn't seem so bad. __________________ I've eaten my veggies all my life so bring it on, I am educated and strong for the revolution.

01-14-2004, 02:47 PM	#21 (permalink)
pangavan Insane Location: cleveland, OH	This must really have the Brazilian police pissed off. In the nine hours that it took to fingerprint those tourists they could have been out raping and killing homeless kids in and around Rio, (can't have them cluttering the streets during carnival can we?). __________________ He is, moreover, a frequent drunkard, a glutton, and a patron of ladies who are no better than they should be.

01-14-2004, 03:01 PM	#22 (permalink)
splck it's jam Location: Lowerainland BC	hehe, this is funny..nothing like a bit of tit-for-tat. __________________ nice line eh?

01-14-2004, 06:40 PM	#25 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...toryID=4127496 __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

01-17-2004, 05:12 AM	#26 (permalink)
asterjolly Upright Location: seattle	actually, this is a continuation of a policy brazil had already had... the reason americans must have a visa to enter brazil (note we dont need one for any other latin american country) is because brazil replicates the process brazilians must go through to get an american visa for americans. even the cost for a brazilian visa for an american is the same as an american visa for brazilians, so i suppose it would make sense that if we start fingerprinting them, theyll start fingerprinting us.

01-17-2004, 11:30 AM	#27 (permalink)
hlprmnky Upright Location: MN, USA	asterjolly, that's a really interesting point, and it makes this seem to be much less of a tit-for-tat action targeted specifically at the fingerprinting. In fact, this history of Brazil's actions as regards US citizens' visas, illegal immigration into the US from Brazil, etc., would likely make for an interesting story if the media could hold the attention of the average viewer long enough to tell it. Personally, I'm wondering why we even bothered to implement this scheme in the ass-backwards way we did, with the list of countries for whom the fingerprinting/photography doesn't apply. I mean, even if we have arrangements with the governments of those countries, and trust them to nab bad guys on their end, the repeated bungles and near-misses involving international air travel over the holidays should demonstrate that our border security needs to be handled, well, at our borders. Also, it is just like our current administration to either not think about or not care about the fact that the message we appear to be sending is "we're worried about terrorism! from, uh, basically just from the brown people." I can't wait for al-Qaeda to start hiring anglo-looking operatives and giving them fake French, Swiss, or German passports. OH GNOS! OUR CAREFULLY-CONSIDERED SECURITY PLAN IS USELESS!!!!1!!oneone