A dissenting student hounded for his views - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Endymon32 · 12-31-2003, 02:21 AM

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20...5705-1963r.htm

Quote:

Tim Bueler recently received some unusual advice: His principal and a campus police officer suggested that he stay home from his California high school for a few days.
They feared for his safety because Tim, the founder of Rancho Cotate High School's new Conservative Club, said he had received threats from other students after writing an article for the club newsletter calling for a crackdown on illegal immigration.
The 17-year-old junior says that stance inspired threats from which teachers have refused to protect him. Some faculty members even started a public campaign against his group, which seeks to promote "the pillars of the Bible, patriotism and conservative beliefs as balance to the mostly liberal viewpoints of teachers," according to its newsletter, "The Conservative Agenda."
In a telephone interview, Tim said he's been threatened at least three times by Hispanic students who call him "white boy" and "racist." One boy said he was going to "find someone" to beat up Tim.
In two of those instances, Tim said two faculty members stood by and did nothing to help him. Most recently, Tim said, he was confronted by a dozen Hispanic boys, who blocked him from walking down the hallway.
"They said, 'You're a racist,' and I said, 'Are you guys going to let me through?' " Tim said. "So I ducked into a classroom and told the teacher what was happening, and said, 'Can you help me?' And she said, 'No. Get out of here.' "
Earlier, he said he was eating lunch in a classroom when about seven Hispanic students surrounded him. Worried for Tim's safety, his father, Dennis Bueler, said he asked for help from a teacher who was also in the room.
"The teacher told him, 'When you say things like that, you've got to expect that things like this are going to happen. Why don't you go out the back door?' " Mr. Bueler said in recounting the incident.
Tim said teachers have also joined in the name-calling. One called Tim a Nazi, while another described the club as "a bunch of bigots." In a parody of the newsletter, biology teacher Mark Alton called on students to "take a stand against the neoconservative wing-nuts who call themselves Americans."
Tim thought about leaving the school, located in Rohnert Park about an hour north of San Francisco, and then made his decision: No way.
"They said, 'It's in your best interest not to go to school,' " Tim said. "I said, 'Well, why? What have I done wrong?' "
The club has invited students to call its "liberal assault hot line" to report whether they've been "verbally assaulted for being conservative."
With about 50 members, the club has hosted speakers from the Eagle Forum and National Rifle Association.
Forty school staff members signed a letter to the Santa Rosa Press Democrat calling on the Conservative Club to back up its accusations that students are being indoctrinated.
"They've made all these sweeping statements about liberal teachers warping the curriculum, but as a science teacher, I'd like to see some evidence," said Mr. Alton, who co-authored the letter.
Mr. Alton said he was also disturbed by Tim's article on illegal immigration, which says, "Liberals welcome every Muhammad, Jamul and Jose who wishes to leave his Third World state and come to America."
"No one at the high school opposes the formation of the Conservative Club," Mr. Alton said. "What bothers me is the extreme views that border on racism or homophobia, the negative tone, and the hot line that calls teachers 'traitors.' "
Tim admitted that his zeal sometimes gets the best of him. He apologized for the "Muhammad" remark, saying, "I made a mistake, but I'm not racist." Club adviser Bernadette Tucker stepped down after Tim printed the newsletter without allowing her to edit it first.
Rancho Cotate Principal Mitchell Carter and district officials did not return several phone calls.
Mr. Bueler said he's ready to bring in lawyers if the school cannot protect his son. "The police don't think they were real threats, but I disagree. He shouldn't have to be threatened every day," the father said.

I was told by the media, and Tom Robbins and Susan Sarandon that the conservatives are the ones crushing liberal expression, not the other way around.

Kadath · 12-31-2003, 06:31 AM

While I don't support strongarm techniques, I think that when you make mistakes like referring to an entire group of people by a single name, certain people within that group are going to get upset. Assuming that the stories that this kid related about teachers being unwilling to help him are true, that sounds more like the ennui of public school teachers than any sinister liberal desire to see conservatives silenced. Think about the last time a PS teacher stopped jocks from intimidating a nerd.

Also, this is the Washington Times. THere's a link at the bottom for a book called The Left Hates America from the website "conservative book service." I would argue that maybe the Times has already tipped its hand.

nanofever · 12-31-2003, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kadath
While I don't support strongarm techniques, I think that when you make mistakes like referring to an entire group of people by a single name, certain people within that group are going to get upset. Assuming that the stories that this kid related about teachers being unwilling to help him are true, that sounds more like the ennui of public school teachers than any sinister liberal desire to see conservatives silenced. Think about the last time a PS teacher stopped jocks from intimidating a nerd.

Also, this is the Washington Times. THere's a link at the bottom for a book called The Left Hates America from the website "conservative book service." I would argue that maybe the Times has already tipped its hand.

Damn those pinko, commie fags...

Sparhawk · 12-31-2003, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Liberals welcome every Muhammad, Jamul and Jose who wishes to leave his Third World state and come to America.

Quote:

No one at the high school opposes the formation of the Conservative Club. What bothers me is the extreme views that border on racism or homophobia, the negative tone, and the hot line that calls teachers 'traitors.'

I think everyone is entitled to a safe, free education. On the other hand, I was beat up in high school, and I never called anyone "Muhammed, Jamul, or Jose."

Start lifting weights, kid.

james t kirk · 12-31-2003, 09:16 AM

The world has gone truly insane.

When i was in high school no-one's "politics" ever came up as an issue.

I mostly thought about girls, trying to get laid (unsucessfully), cars, hanging out with my friends, girls, doing well enough to get into university, girls, skipping class and creative excuses, girls, cars, cars and girls.

Did I mention that i thought about girls all the time.....

What the fuck is with kids today.
`
"Conservative values" to me equated to "no sex before marriage" and well, that wasn't a popular idea with me when i was 14 thru 17.

Endymon32 · 12-31-2003, 12:20 PM

Can you imagine the uproar if a leftie kid was strongarmed by teachers? Man it would be in all the headlines.

Kadath · 12-31-2003, 10:18 PM

Is there an echo in here?

Strange Famous · 01-01-2004, 08:21 AM

That kid sounds like an idiot.

He isnt get bullied because he holds offensively right wing views, he is being bullied (sadly) because he is a complete and total nerd I suspect.

He says he has a problem with illegal immigration, but clearly only if those immigrants arent white (he then denies he is a racist), he calls left wing teachers traitors (traitors to what?)

No one should be beaten up just for expressing political views, but when those views seem to amount to telling a whole ethnic group of people they should be thrown out of the country, I have to agree with the teachers that this is going to cause him problems. The teachers should be protecting him, but given that he has set up a hotline for people to attack them, can he be so shocked if they wont?

I mean, he has even invited people from the NRA into a school social club, what kind of person is he? People should be more political, but on the whole, maybe he should play more video games or try and get with girls rather than worrying about how many Spanish people live in his town.

Endymon32 · 01-01-2004, 10:50 AM

So you think the teachers are bulling the chess club too? The computer club?

You make this claim and then support it by showing the kids political views. Thus defeating your own argtument Strange Famous.
*edited by rogue49 for flaming

And Strange FAmos, what is wrong with the NRA? Tell me something you didnt learn from Micheal Moore ( cause that is all lies) on why the NRA is bad? I await your rhetorica, and lie free responce. I wont get it, but I wait for it.

Strange Famous · 01-01-2004, 10:54 AM

the NRA is bad because they support the ownership of guns, which are lethal weapons and should not be allowed to be possessed by the general population. To ban citizens from possessing guns is a good thing, the NRA oppose this, and they are a bad thing.

And I am sure some people in the chess club do get bullied too, this kid is a racist, or makes statements that make him appear racist, so it isnt surprising that people from an ethnic minority dont like him.

The_Dunedan · 01-01-2004, 11:45 AM

Ok, Strange Famous, here's a question.
I myself am a Libertarian, but I pose this to you as an intellectual exercise, if you will.
If the Proletariat do not posess arms, how do you propose to sieze the Means of Production from the Capitalists? If the Capitalists do, as you say, control the militaries and weapons of the world, how will you overcome them if the Proletariat are ( as you advocate ) disarmed? Sing at them perhaps, or "taunt them a second time?"

Your advocacy of Proletariat Disarmament makes clear your own Bourgoise, classist disposition clear for all to see. Please explain how you reconcile these mutually exclusive positions.

Lebell · 01-01-2004, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Strange Famous

I mean, he has even invited people from the NRA into a school social club, what kind of person is he?

What the hell does THIS mean?

Lebell · 01-01-2004, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Strange Famous
the NRA is bad because they support the ownership of guns, which are lethal weapons and should not be allowed to be possessed by the general population. To ban citizens from possessing guns is a good thing, the NRA oppose this, and they are a bad thing.

Oh, I see you answered with " because guns are bad".

I'm done with you.

Good day.

edited to add,

And then I must be "bad" too, because I AM the NRA.

Strangely, I sleep fine at night.

Strange Famous · 01-01-2004, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Dunedan
Ok, Strange Famous, here's a question.
I myself am a Libertarian, but I pose this to you as an intellectual exercise, if you will.
If the Proletariat do not posess arms, how do you propose to sieze the Means of Production from the Capitalists? If the Capitalists do, as you say, control the militaries and weapons of the world, how will you overcome them if the Proletariat are ( as you advocate ) disarmed? Sing at them perhaps, or "taunt them a second time?"

Your advocacy of Proletariat Disarmament makes clear your own Bourgoise, classist disposition clear for all to see. Please explain how you reconcile these mutually exclusive positions.

The Army will abandon the state and fight on the side of the workers when the hour comes.

Tophat665 · 01-01-2004, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Endymon32
Can you imagine the uproar if a leftie kid was strongarmed by teachers? Man it would be in all the headlines.

Dude, this is in the headlines. Granted, it's in Reverend Moon's headlines, but it's there nonetheless.

Quote:

Originally posted by Strange Famous
the NRA is bad because they support the ownership of guns, which are lethal weapons and should not be allowed to be possessed by the general population. To ban citizens from possessing guns is a good thing, the NRA oppose this, and they are a bad thing.

No no no no no no no! Man, this makes it so hard for people to be liberal when you say things like that. Look, we have this constitution thing. It gives citizens the right to keep and bear arms (in a well ordered militia, but let's leave that aside. It's not crucial to the point). This right has exactly the same weight as the right to free speech or the right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure. If you don't like the right, then work to repeal the second ammendment, but don't tell me the NRA is bad for defending the second ammendment.

Now, that said, the NRA is bad for <i>how</i> they defend the second ammendment. The first ammendment can be suspended in cases of national security and in cases that cause clear and present danger to life, health, and/or property. Why is it that similar limitations do not apply to the second ammendment? The NRA, that's why. Guns are dangerous, but they are allowed. Guns that fire a poorly aimed spray of bullets that might hit anything are an unacceptable danger to life and limb and probably ought to be banned (or severly restricted). Mankilling weapons, like cheap handguns, probably ought to be banned in high population density areas for similar reasons. Further, the second ammendment says nothing about licensing guns. Effective enforcement of gun licensing laws would go a long way to solving the problems we have wth firearms. Now if only the NRA didn't stand in the way of effective enforcement of those laws, we might be able to get somewhere.

Strange Famous · 01-01-2004, 12:18 PM

The NRA should be classified as a criminal band of desperado's.

Groups such as these should be made illigal, and the people of America must be forced to give up their weapons.

This is a group with glorifies in the possession of deadly arms, and which encorages people to keep such weapons... they are nothing but a bunch of stooges for the American Weapons companies.

Endymon32 · 01-01-2004, 12:20 PM

He is an Englisman and clearly doenst realise that in our basis for government, the right to bear arms is a cherished right. The NRA is a volunteer group that protects our rights. So again, what is wrong with asking a group that protects American rights to an American group?

Would you be aghast if he had asked the FREE SPEECH SOCIETY to come to his group? Or the Suffergettes? They all defend our rights.

O I get it, its not about American rights, its about YOUR viewpoint. Any group, how ever it defended blacks from the KKK and forced the governement to act to wipe out that racist organisation must be bad cause YOU dont like it.

And since you dont like that group, anyone who does like them must also be wrong, like the kid in question.

*edited by rogue49 for flaming

Endymon32 · 01-01-2004, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Strange Famous
The Army will abandon the state and fight on the side of the workers when the hour comes.

LOL better than Jerry Lewis.

Endymon32 · 01-01-2004, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Strange Famous
The NRA should be classified as a criminal band of desperado's.

Groups such as these should be made illigal, and the people of America must be forced to give up their weapons.

This is a group with glorifies in the possession of deadly arms, and which encorages people to keep such weapons... they are nothing but a bunch of stooges for the American Weapons companies.

Thats al lot of force in your free and open society....wow.

Lebell · 01-01-2004, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Strange Famous
The NRA should be classified as a criminal band of desperado's.

Groups such as these should be made illigal, and the people of America must be forced to give up their weapons.

This is a group with glorifies in the possession of deadly arms, and which encorages people to keep such weapons... they are nothing but a bunch of stooges for the American Weapons companies.

I know I know I know I said I was done, but I will say just one more thing:

Molon Labe.

The_Dunedan · 01-01-2004, 12:28 PM

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!!
Ok, lemme get this straight. The ARMY/etc, are magically going to abandon the Govt, Capitalism, what-the-fuck-ever, and save your ass. Riiiiiiight. For your own sake, you had better HOPE so, because you'll NEED 'em.
Do me a favour, pommie. You want my guns, YOU come get them! Don't send some hired thug with a badge to do it for you, yourself lacking the testicular fortitude; YOU do your own dirty work.
Let me do a little math for you; even if you succeed in disarming 99% of gunowners, and siezing 99% of our guns, that's still 85,000 VERY upset people, in posession of something on the order of 2.7 MILLION weapons. Do you REALLY want to tangle with that, considering that the 3-500-man IRA fought your SAS to a standstill for 30 years? Think about Free Derry or Bogside, blown up by a few Orders of Magnitude, and you may have some idea of the fight you'll be in for. Think about that VERY carefully.

Now, think about all the non-gunowners this unscientific claptrap you call Communism is going to piss off; we'll have plenty of spare guns to lean them, won't we? And if you think you won't be MASSIVELY resisted, on all fronts, you have lost your mind, boyo.

I have a professor who grew up in the Sov Union, saw his entire family destroyed by the brutality which Marx gave birth and voice. Anatoly is a very tired old Cossack, but he's still got plenty of fight in him, and so do a lot of other folks like him.
Tell you what, you stay over there in England, with your failing medical system, your abysmal transportation, soaring crime rate, and castrated, unmanned populace. I'll stay here, and stay Free, thanks, where people can still carry a pocketknife, and where farmers can defend themselves from violent thugs, without fear of going to prison for it.

Strange Famous · 01-01-2004, 12:39 PM

The American people must be disarmed.

And Tony Martin wasnt defending himself, he shot the guy as he was running away (you may also note that Tony Martin had expressed admiration for the policies of Adolf Hitler)

The_Dunedan · 01-01-2004, 12:44 PM

As King Leonidas said, at Thermoplaie,
Molon Labe!
Translated; "come and get 'em!"

BTW, this sort of intellectual masturbation gets you exactly the same as the real thing; nothing but sticky hands and an empty sac. However, in your case, the sac was apparently taken care of a long time ago.

Rekna · 01-01-2004, 12:50 PM

If the American public should be disarmed, shouldn't we first disarm the Arab public that walk around openly with AK-47s? Should we disarm these Arab nations first? After all it is the citizens of these Arab nations that are using weapons to cause distruction. I haven't seen very many American sucide bombers have you?

seretogis · 01-01-2004, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Strange Famous
The American people must be disarmed.

Socialism -- goose-stepping into the future, one European nation at a time.

Endymon32 · 01-01-2004, 01:19 PM

I am sure the fact that The nazis, the Maoists, the Stalinsits, Castro, etc all disarmed their populations right away is proof of their "loving nature" for their populations?

And why would the government or the people fear armed people since there would be no crime, discontent or problems under this imaginary communist utopia?
Food for thought?

Woudlnt the government just be paranoid? Taking away someone's right to defend himself from a crazy person hell bent on attacking them? I assume Communisn will not eliminate mental disorders as it will muggings, gangs, and racists. LOL

Zeld2.0 · 01-01-2004, 01:57 PM

oh joy more of the same style idiotic posts from everyone

why do people have to rehash the same shit over and over ?

Easytiger · 01-01-2004, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zeld2.0
oh joy more of the same style idiotic posts from everyone

why do people have to rehash the same shit over and over ?

The Politics board isn't what it used to be. I'm dead sick of flame wars and unsupported comments.

Sensation isn't debate, people. Could we perhaps get back into the habit of proper arguments, and while we're at it, could we at least try to be polite to each other?

redravin40 · 01-01-2004, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Easytiger
The Politics board isn't what it used to be. I'm dead sick of flame wars and unsupported comments.

Sensation isn't debate, people. Could we perhaps get back into the habit of proper arguments, and while we're at it, could we at least try to be polite to each other?

I have to agree.
If this thread keeps up on its current course it will be shut down.
Folks, the idea here is to respectfully disagree.
If someone makes you crazy everytime they post and you can't control the fire, then put them on ignore and move on.
For everyone who has figured out that it is possible to have a constructive conversation without insulting each other, please show the others how it is done.
Thank you.

Endymon32 · 01-01-2004, 07:05 PM

Feel free to not post if you dont like it.

Easytiger · 01-01-2004, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Endymon32
Feel free to not post if you dont like it.

I want to post, but I want to post in a manner that is intelligent, rational and polite, and I would like to see other people doing the same. I don't think that's too much to ask.

Kadath · 01-01-2004, 09:42 PM

The key to getting along with people of different political views is to play video games with them. It allows you to see them as something other than a dissenting block of text.

Also, it helps to not say things that are deliberately inflammatory, such as "The NRA is comprised of bad people" or "If this was a liberal, we'd read it in all the papers." Make more use of the preview function. Think about what you've said. If you want attention, take off your clothes and walk outside. If you want a fight, call your significant other by the wrong name during sex. Don't bring the ruckus here.

"You're mighty brave in cyberspace, flameboy." -- Wally of Dilbert

filtherton · 01-01-2004, 11:08 PM

All i have to say is that this kid is lucky that he isn't an actor, a dixie chick, or a frenchman.

tritium · 01-01-2004, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Endymon32
LOL better than Jerry Lewis.

Moreover, I can't see guns being that big of a deal against some of the larger items out military carries around under airplane wings and on trucks in Montana. "When the hours comes," my foot. We'll all be radioactive ash.

I plan on keeping my rifles right where they are but I'm not sure they will be of any real use "when the hour comes."

Stop whining about guns and the NRA and start worrying about what really matters. I'll give you hint as to what really matters, it ain't my 23-year old redneck ass sitting here with a rifle ...

nanofever · 01-02-2004, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by redravin40
I have to agree.
If this thread keeps up on its current course it will be shut down.
Folks, the idea here is to respectfully disagree.
If someone makes you crazy everytime they post and you can't control the fire, then put them on ignore and move on.
For everyone who has figured out that it is possible to have a constructive conversation without insulting each other, please show the others how it is done.
Thank you.

I can't help but think Strange Famous and Endymon32 are the same person using unsupported statements to goad unsuspecting people into a flame war.

Endymon32 · 01-02-2004, 01:11 AM

No, cause i back up all my claims. Sorry to disapoint you. Please repost any unsupported claims and I will redirect you to the place where they were backed up.

onetime2 · 01-02-2004, 04:40 PM

Guns Bad. They Kill. There's one stalking me at this moment. Whenever I see him I laugh. I laugh not because he is funny but because he's got no finger to pull the trigger.

MSD · 01-02-2004, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Strange Famous
The American people must be disarmed.

It has already been said, but I feel the need to repeat that this is what Hitler said about the German people before he established his totalitarian regime.

The unfortunate fact is that, although Communism is a theoretically ideal solution to the world's problems, the reality of it is that the only way that anything like Communism can work is the "Dictatorship of the Proletariat," which is just another totalitarian state. It happened in Russia, that government was little more than a socialist dictatorship. If forced to choose between a socialist economy with a totalitarian government and a Capitalist state with a Democratic government, there is no way that I would trade freedom and the necessity of hard work for a government that sent secret police to kill dissidents and took most of my income in exchange for subsidized utilities and food. It is pleasant to envision a state in which we all lived in harmony, helping our fellow man and had nothing to fight for, but it realistically can't happen.

The further humanity evolves, the less possible it is to have a true Communist state.

As for the real question, nobody should be harassed solely for political views, but if those views are hateful, he should keep them to himself and not try to force them on us. I can't tell from this article whether or tnot the kid is a racist, so I have to say that teh non-confrontational way in whcih the situation was handled without accusations is probably the best solution based on the information given.

RAGEAngel9 · 01-02-2004, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Strange Famous
The Army will abandon the state and fight on the side of the workers when the hour comes.

I actually agree on this one point,
* edited by rogue49 for flaming
I've discussed this with my friends. I have never once feared the US military invadign the US, because no matter what screwed up leader ordered this command, I simply cannot see our volunteer service attacking it's own country.
Now the UN, EU, and the frankly the rest of the world, I only trust as far as I can throw them... and it's pretty hard to throw an army, believe me.

Ustwo · 01-02-2004, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Strange Famous
The American people must be disarmed.

Now I currently don't own a gun, more a lack of effort then desire, but comments like that make me want to have a gun rack

Lets face it SF, if you have this workers paradise you speak of, with 70 virgins in every pot, and all that, where all the people live in harmony, there is NO reason to disarm the populous. As such you must expect the populous to not care for your plans

12-31-2003, 06:31 AM	#2 (permalink)
Kadath Muffled Location: Camazotz	While I don't support strongarm techniques, I think that when you make mistakes like referring to an entire group of people by a single name, certain people within that group are going to get upset. Assuming that the stories that this kid related about teachers being unwilling to help him are true, that sounds more like the ennui of public school teachers than any sinister liberal desire to see conservatives silenced. Think about the last time a PS teacher stopped jocks from intimidating a nerd. Also, this is the Washington Times. THere's a link at the bottom for a book called The Left Hates America from the website "conservative book service." I would argue that maybe the Times has already tipped its hand. __________________ it's quiet in here

12-31-2003, 10:18 PM	#7 (permalink)
Kadath Muffled Location: Camazotz	Is there an echo in here? __________________ it's quiet in here

01-01-2004, 08:21 AM	#8 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	That kid sounds like an idiot. He isnt get bullied because he holds offensively right wing views, he is being bullied (sadly) because he is a complete and total nerd I suspect. He says he has a problem with illegal immigration, but clearly only if those immigrants arent white (he then denies he is a racist), he calls left wing teachers traitors (traitors to what?) No one should be beaten up just for expressing political views, but when those views seem to amount to telling a whole ethnic group of people they should be thrown out of the country, I have to agree with the teachers that this is going to cause him problems. The teachers should be protecting him, but given that he has set up a hotline for people to attack them, can he be so shocked if they wont? I mean, he has even invited people from the NRA into a school social club, what kind of person is he? People should be more political, but on the whole, maybe he should play more video games or try and get with girls rather than worrying about how many Spanish people live in his town. __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

01-01-2004, 10:50 AM	#9 (permalink)
Endymon32 Banned	So you think the teachers are bulling the chess club too? The computer club? You make this claim and then support it by showing the kids political views. Thus defeating your own argtument Strange Famous. edited by rogue49 for flaming And Strange FAmos, what is wrong with the NRA? Tell me something you didnt learn from Micheal Moore ( cause that is all lies) on why the NRA is bad? I await your rhetorica, and lie free responce. I wont get it, but I wait for it. Last edited by rogue49; 01-03-2004 at 05:19 AM..*

01-01-2004, 10:54 AM	#10 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	the NRA is bad because they support the ownership of guns, which are lethal weapons and should not be allowed to be possessed by the general population. To ban citizens from possessing guns is a good thing, the NRA oppose this, and they are a bad thing. And I am sure some people in the chess club do get bullied too, this kid is a racist, or makes statements that make him appear racist, so it isnt surprising that people from an ethnic minority dont like him. __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

12-31-2003, 09:16 AM	#5 (permalink)
james t kirk Junkie Location: Toronto	The world has gone truly insane. When i was in high school no-one's "politics" ever came up as an issue. I mostly thought about girls, trying to get laid (unsucessfully), cars, hanging out with my friends, girls, doing well enough to get into university, girls, skipping class and creative excuses, girls, cars, cars and girls. Did I mention that i thought about girls all the time..... What the fuck is with kids today. ` "Conservative values" to me equated to "no sex before marriage" and well, that wasn't a popular idea with me when i was 14 thru 17.

12-31-2003, 12:20 PM	#6 (permalink)
Endymon32 Banned	Can you imagine the uproar if a leftie kid was strongarmed by teachers? Man it would be in all the headlines.

01-01-2004, 11:45 AM	#11 (permalink)
The_Dunedan Junkie	Ok, Strange Famous, here's a question. I myself am a Libertarian, but I pose this to you as an intellectual exercise, if you will. If the Proletariat do not posess arms, how do you propose to sieze the Means of Production from the Capitalists? If the Capitalists do, as you say, control the militaries and weapons of the world, how will you overcome them if the Proletariat are ( as you advocate ) disarmed? Sing at them perhaps, or "taunt them a second time?" Your advocacy of Proletariat Disarmament makes clear your own Bourgoise, classist disposition clear for all to see. Please explain how you reconcile these mutually exclusive positions. __________________ "I personally think that America's interests would be well served if after or at the time these clowns begin their revolting little hate crime the local police come in and cart them off on some trumped up charges or other. It is necessary in my opinion that America makes an example of them to the world." --Strange Famous, advocating the use of falsified charges in order to shut people up.

01-01-2004, 12:18 PM	#16 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	The NRA should be classified as a criminal band of desperado's. Groups such as these should be made illigal, and the people of America must be forced to give up their weapons. This is a group with glorifies in the possession of deadly arms, and which encorages people to keep such weapons... they are nothing but a bunch of stooges for the American Weapons companies. __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

01-01-2004, 12:20 PM	#17 (permalink)
Endymon32 Banned	He is an Englisman and clearly doenst realise that in our basis for government, the right to bear arms is a cherished right. The NRA is a volunteer group that protects our rights. So again, what is wrong with asking a group that protects American rights to an American group? Would you be aghast if he had asked the FREE SPEECH SOCIETY to come to his group? Or the Suffergettes? They all defend our rights. O I get it, its not about American rights, its about YOUR viewpoint. Any group, how ever it defended blacks from the KKK and forced the governement to act to wipe out that racist organisation must be bad cause YOU dont like it. And since you dont like that group, anyone who does like them must also be wrong, like the kid in question. edited by rogue49 for flaming Last edited by rogue49; 01-03-2004 at 05:19 AM..*

01-01-2004, 12:28 PM	#21 (permalink)
The_Dunedan Junkie	HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!! Ok, lemme get this straight. The ARMY/etc, are magically going to abandon the Govt, Capitalism, what-the-fuck-ever, and save your ass. Riiiiiiight. For your own sake, you had better HOPE so, because you'll NEED 'em. Do me a favour, pommie. You want my guns, YOU come get them! Don't send some hired thug with a badge to do it for you, yourself lacking the testicular fortitude; YOU do your own dirty work. Let me do a little math for you; even if you succeed in disarming 99% of gunowners, and siezing 99% of our guns, that's still 85,000 VERY upset people, in posession of something on the order of 2.7 MILLION weapons. Do you REALLY want to tangle with that, considering that the 3-500-man IRA fought your SAS to a standstill for 30 years? Think about Free Derry or Bogside, blown up by a few Orders of Magnitude, and you may have some idea of the fight you'll be in for. Think about that VERY carefully. Now, think about all the non-gunowners this unscientific claptrap you call Communism is going to piss off; we'll have plenty of spare guns to lean them, won't we? And if you think you won't be MASSIVELY resisted, on all fronts, you have lost your mind, boyo. I have a professor who grew up in the Sov Union, saw his entire family destroyed by the brutality which Marx gave birth and voice. Anatoly is a very tired old Cossack, but he's still got plenty of fight in him, and so do a lot of other folks like him. Tell you what, you stay over there in England, with your failing medical system, your abysmal transportation, soaring crime rate, and castrated, unmanned populace. I'll stay here, and stay Free, thanks, where people can still carry a pocketknife, and where farmers can defend themselves from violent thugs, without fear of going to prison for it. __________________ "I personally think that America's interests would be well served if after or at the time these clowns begin their revolting little hate crime the local police come in and cart them off on some trumped up charges or other. It is necessary in my opinion that America makes an example of them to the world." --Strange Famous, advocating the use of falsified charges in order to shut people up.

01-01-2004, 12:39 PM	#22 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	The American people must be disarmed. And Tony Martin wasnt defending himself, he shot the guy as he was running away (you may also note that Tony Martin had expressed admiration for the policies of Adolf Hitler) __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

01-01-2004, 12:44 PM	#23 (permalink)
The_Dunedan Junkie	As King Leonidas said, at Thermoplaie, Molon Labe! Translated; "come and get 'em!" BTW, this sort of intellectual masturbation gets you exactly the same as the real thing; nothing but sticky hands and an empty sac. However, in your case, the sac was apparently taken care of a long time ago. __________________ "I personally think that America's interests would be well served if after or at the time these clowns begin their revolting little hate crime the local police come in and cart them off on some trumped up charges or other. It is necessary in my opinion that America makes an example of them to the world." --Strange Famous, advocating the use of falsified charges in order to shut people up.

01-01-2004, 12:50 PM	#24 (permalink)
Rekna Junkie	If the American public should be disarmed, shouldn't we first disarm the Arab public that walk around openly with AK-47s? Should we disarm these Arab nations first? After all it is the citizens of these Arab nations that are using weapons to cause distruction. I haven't seen very many American sucide bombers have you?

01-01-2004, 01:19 PM	#26 (permalink)
Endymon32 Banned	I am sure the fact that The nazis, the Maoists, the Stalinsits, Castro, etc all disarmed their populations right away is proof of their "loving nature" for their populations? And why would the government or the people fear armed people since there would be no crime, discontent or problems under this imaginary communist utopia? Food for thought? Woudlnt the government just be paranoid? Taking away someone's right to defend himself from a crazy person hell bent on attacking them? I assume Communisn will not eliminate mental disorders as it will muggings, gangs, and racists. LOL

01-01-2004, 01:57 PM	#27 (permalink)
Zeld2.0 Cherry-pickin' devil's advocate Location: Los Angeles	oh joy more of the same style idiotic posts from everyone why do people have to rehash the same shit over and over ?

01-01-2004, 07:05 PM	#30 (permalink)
Endymon32 Banned	Feel free to not post if you dont like it.

01-01-2004, 09:42 PM	#32 (permalink)
Kadath Muffled Location: Camazotz	The key to getting along with people of different political views is to play video games with them. It allows you to see them as something other than a dissenting block of text. Also, it helps to not say things that are deliberately inflammatory, such as "The NRA is comprised of bad people" or "If this was a liberal, we'd read it in all the papers." Make more use of the preview function. Think about what you've said. If you want attention, take off your clothes and walk outside. If you want a fight, call your significant other by the wrong name during sex. Don't bring the ruckus here. "You're mighty brave in cyberspace, flameboy." -- Wally of Dilbert __________________ it's quiet in here

01-01-2004, 11:08 PM	#33 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	All i have to say is that this kid is lucky that he isn't an actor, a dixie chick, or a frenchman.

01-02-2004, 01:11 AM	#36 (permalink)
Endymon32 Banned	No, cause i back up all my claims. Sorry to disapoint you. Please repost any unsupported claims and I will redirect you to the place where they were backed up.

01-02-2004, 04:40 PM	#37 (permalink)
onetime2 Junkie Location: NJ	Guns Bad. They Kill. There's one stalking me at this moment. Whenever I see him I laugh. I laugh not because he is funny but because he's got no finger to pull the trigger. __________________ Strive to be more curious than ignorant.