Marius1

LMAO, Americans sue people at the drop of a hat.
I'm sure if the Sun called Bush something libelous around election time he'd be on them like a rash too.

mml

I think that the Bush Administration's foreign and domestic policies when taken on a whole, are misguided, contentious, overly assertive, often juvenile and certainly divissive. (i.e. those of a stupid,aggressive puppy) I have expressed this opinion in many ways, many times on this forum, in letters to newspapers and in general conversation. So far, no one has called me traitor or unpatriotic(at least not to my face). I hope this is primarly because anyone who knows me can tell that I love this country, what is stands for and what its potential is. I firmly believe that patriotism means standing up for what you believe in and asking questions and when necessary defying authority(as our founding fathers did and more recently the Civil Rights movement).

Johnny Depp is a good actor, I have no idea if he is an astute thinker. He, just like you and I has every right to say what he wants. What dissapoints me about him is not his opinions or the fact that he is using his celebrity to broadcast them to a large audience. What dissapoints me is that rather than staying and fighting to change what he does not like, he has chosen to leave his country and hide his head in the sand.(Although they do have some really nice sand in the south of France - good food too, and his wife is a babe - but it is still a pretty lame solution to his concerns.)

__________________
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so."
-Douglas Adams

Shauk

Johnny Depp is a genius.

seriously.

Double D

Thank you Marius. You just saved me some writing, 'cept I would substitute *hottie* for *geezer.*

Edit: Thought it over while getting dressed. *Fascist* is a hot-button word. I prefer *autocrat.*

debaser

Johnny Depp is a coward who did not have the tires to speak his mind in the 'States.

Had he taken a stand here I could respect him. As it stands, I can't.

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rgr22j

You're wrong. It is expressly forbidden under French law to insult the French president. The government went as far as punishing a foreign newspaper; meanwhile, their own presses were busy assailing Bush and Blair.

Bush wouldn't sue because he can't. Insulting the president is protected speech (threatening the president is not, however). I can safely sit here at the computer and say, "President George W. Bush is a slimy, namby-pamby, poncy, WASP monkey" and not worry about any potential repercussions. Many worse insults were hurled at George Bush (and Al Gore and Ralph Nader) but no lawsuits were filed. America is one of the few countries in the world tolerant enough to allow this. That's why I now live here, and not out there.

I take it you've lived most of your life in Wales. You're lucky. Wales is a beautiful place, and the Welsh language is like music.

When I was born, my home country was still a military dictatorship. Trust me when I say America is nowhere near an insular fascism. I wouldn't be here if it was. George W. Bush is not leading the country to fascism. Economic ruin, perhaps. A "fascist" police state, I think not.

-- Alvin

archer2371

Yeah, I agree with debaser here (that's twice now) if he had come out and said that in the United States, meh, don't care, he has an opinion and he's got the balls to say it to one of his major fanbases. Same thing with the Dixie Chicks. But no, let's be in a foreign country when we start criticizing American policies or American leaders. That is what I have a problem with, not the fact that he has an opinion, but the fact that he ran all the way to France before he said it. Although, this won't stop me from watching Pirates of the Caribbean, that's too damn good of a movie.

__________________
"This ain't no Ice Cream Social!"

"Hey Grif, Chupathingy...how bout that? I like it...got a ring to it."

"I have no earthly idea what it is I just saw, or what this place is, or where in the hell O'Malley is! My only choice is to blame Grif for coming up with such a flawed plan. Stupid, stupid Grif."

Macheath

rgr22j, that idiotic law against insulting the French president also applies to other heads of state. <a href="http://vigilant.tv/article/2907">In Kazakhstan, prosecutors defended the country's "insult law" by citing the French model, in a case brought after President Nursultan Nazarbayev was called a "goat." Hassan II, the late king of Morocco, got Le Monde convicted in a Paris court for insulting him in an article about hashish production in the kingdom. The European Court of Human Rights later found France guilty of violating the paper's right to free expression.</a> Ironic that France was smacked down by the kind of "internationalist" court that quite a few of Bush's boys would like to see disappear. So, um, Dubya could try and go after Johnny in a FRENCH court! That's about as likely to happen as Tom DeLay deciding to send the FBI after the Texas Democrats.

In the end, crude character assasination on Fox News is a much less self destructive way of dealing with Hollywood celebrities.

Love ya work Johnny mate!

Nizzle

If he were here everyone would say he should just get out if he doesn't like it. You can't please everyone, especially not a group of people who disagree with you ideologically.

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Nizzle

JcL

10,000 people. Thats like three World Trade Centers, from heat.

I'm sorry but the government, any government, that would allow that to happen, deserves blame. There is always something more that could have been done.

If Depps home is France, then I would simply think that he should be turning his attention to this specific failing in the country he loves. It would seem more relevent to me, thats all.

__________________
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth then lies." - Nietzsche

rodgerd

Agreed - and shows a deep moral bankruptcy.

Apparently the only actors allowed to opine on politics are Ronald Reagan and Charlton Heston. Maybe Arnie.

Shauk

lol Nizzle hit it on the head. if he said it here people would be like "if you don't like it, leave"

its the number one thing people fling at me when I say I disagree with the political motives of the USA.

so if I move and then say it.. but people werent around to hear me the 1st time I said it due to lack of fame hah that sfunny

smooth

Now I get it, the heat! How could the French government be so callous as to allow the heat to get to intolerable level?! They shoulda flipped the French Gallactic Therometer to 'ON' or sumthin.

hmm, maybe now they'll realize the error of their ways and sign those damn global warming treaties...oh wait, that's us...never mind.

debaser

Ignore the idiots who would say such things. Just because they have no brains does not mean that you should have no backbone.

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utang

Not to piss anyone off, but when has it become unacceptable for people to express their opinions? Being an actor, of course his self-expression is going to be more far reaching than others, but it is still a valid opinion that he states. People who go about with the "biting the hand that feeds him arguement," are way off, in that such an arguement references an animal or otherwise incontinent that attacks their only means of subsistance, subsistance that is undeserved otherwise. Depp is an actor, a damn good one in my opinion, and by being a good actor is how he earns his keep. Oh yeah, the whole freedom fries debacle was just an embarassment.

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I am a ridiculous man- Fyodor Doestoevsky

Double D

Um, he has been a resident of France for what, upwards of a decade now? Doesn't *running off* somewhere, have a statute of limitations?

So Americans can only express their opinions on the Untied States while in the United States?

Also, with global communications as it is, it's not like we are going to be unaware of his remarks.
We're *discussing* them almost moments after they were made public.

What would we do if he dared to speak his mind here, lynch him?
We're doing a great job of vilifying him right now.

debaser

Certainly not. As I said before I would respect his opinion had he made it known here.

After all, he was in the 'States all summer plugging his movie. Why didn't he mention it then?

I also have a problem with the fact that he told his kids to go experience the US, then discard it. Isn't that the same attitude he is bitching about us having?

He is spineless.

__________________

JcL

Wasn't the freedom fries "debacle" just one city in the south that went overboard - it hardly represents the action of the American public or the federal administration - just the zealotry of one southerner city councilmen.

__________________
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth then lies." - Nietzsche

rgr22j

Thanks for the extra information: it's a dumb law, agreed, the French should be able to insult both Chirac and Bush whenever they please. But it looks like France just ignored the European Court's ruling anyway. I imagine that's exactly what America would do as well.


I'm not sure if you're being facetious, but didn't DeLay send Homeland Security after the Texas Democrats? And as I remember, when the Democrats took off to New Mexico, DeLay tried to yank them back again, but this time the Texas Supreme Court (all Republicans) struck him down.



Temperatures are much hotter in other parts of the globe, but most people handled it pretty well. Especially for a wealthy country like France, dealing with heat should be a relative non-issue. Here is an example of the Chicago plan, from Eric Klinenberg's "Heat Wave":

-- Alvin

Double D

Nope.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/...prj.irq.fries/

House cafeterias change names for 'french' fries and 'french' toast
Move reflects anger over France's stance on Iraq

By Sean Loughlin
CNN Washington Bureau
Wednesday, March 12, 2003 Posted: 10:52 AM EST (1552 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The cafeteria menus in the three House office buildings changed the name of "french fries" to "freedom fries," in a culinary rebuke of France stemming from anger over the country's refusal to support the U.S. position on Iraq.

Ditto for "french toast," which will be known as "freedom toast."

The name changes were spearheaded by two Republican lawmakers who held a news conference Tuesday to make the name changes official on the menus.

Across the country, some private restaurants have done the same.

"This action today is a small, but symbolic effort to show the strong displeasure of many on Capitol Hill with the actions of our so-called ally, France," said Rep. Bob Ney, R-Ohio, the chairman of the Committee on House Administration.

Ney, whose committee has authority over the House cafeterias, directed the change, after colleague Walter Jones, R-North Carolina, circulated a letter suggesting such a move. Jones said he was following the example of a local restaurant owner in his North Carolina district.

"I represent a district with multiple military bases that have deployed thousands of troops," Jones said in a statement. "As I've watched these men and women wave good-bye to their loved ones, I am reminded of the deep love they have for the freedom of this nation and their desire to fight for the freedom of those who are oppressed overseas. Watching France's self -serving politics of passive aggression in this effort has discouraged me more than I can say."

The name change was criticized by one young man in a House cafeteria.

"That's completely ludicrous to me," he said.

France has pressed the United Nations to give weapons inspectors more time in Iraq, saying the U.S. and British-led move to war is premature.

Its stance has angered some U.S. lawmakers.

Rep. Jim Saxton, R-New Jersey, has introduced legislation in the House that would block any French company from receiving U.S. government aid or financing in any reconstruction of Iraq. Another measure discourages American tourists, businesses and the government from participating in the 2003 Paris Air show.

But House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, said he didn't think Congress needed to take any formal steps to signal its disapproval of France.

"I don't think we have to retaliate against France," he said. "They have isolated themselves. They have resigned from any responsibility for the war on terror."

Asked why he was focusing on France when other nations, including Germany and Russia, oppose the U.S. position on Iraq, Jones said it was because France had taken the lead in challenging the United States.

Officials with the French Embassy in Washington could not be reached for comment Tuesday afternoon.

JcL

Haha ok, thats pretty sad.

Originally when the story first broke I thought it was some Florida councilmen who went crazy, didn't realize the trend had continued.

__________________
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth then lies." - Nietzsche

Macheath

Yes, I was being facetious. It's just how I responded to the idea of law enforcement being used in a political fight.

DeLay tried to get them to track the Democrats' plane. When it was found out, he backpedalled, saying that "I asked a staffer to contact the FAA for publicly available flight information that any member of Congress gets from FAA — or you can get it off the Internet — as to the whereabouts of a certain plane, of a certain tail number."

When DeLay's office contacted Homeland Security about the plane they were led to believe that it was in trouble, missing or had crashed.

DeLay also contacted the FBI and US Marshals for help in finding the Democrats. They declined his request.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/...in555028.shtml

Sorry, don't want to threadjack here.

Silvy

Am I the only one who wonders:
Fries aren't free, neither is toast. So the name change must have something to do with France... Now let's see: the items remain the same, so nothing has changed. Therefore France/french must equal freedom!

And look and behold: France has an opinion! Sounds like free speech to me!
How nice of the American government to realise that someone might not agree with them, but it's okay because everyone is allowed their opinion. Even better: they change the menus to show appreciation for France! Yeah!


Or am I getting something wrong here?

P.S. I'm not really fond of France myself, but I wish more countries in the world had the guts to say what they think!

__________________
"Do not kill. Do not rape. Do not steal. These are principles which every man of every faith can embrace. "
- Murphy MacManus (Boondock Saints)

Double D

Here 'ya go:
http://www.canoe.ca/JamMoviesArtistsD/depp_johnny.html

Wednesday, June 25, 2003

By STEVE TILLEY -- Edmonton Sun
Skip down to paragraph nine

LOS ANGELES -- Johnny Depp may have had the "Winona Forever" tattoo on his arm altered to read "Wino Forever," but that doesn't mean the actor's former flame is absent from his thoughts.

Winona Ryder, who dated Depp for three years during the early '90s, was convicted in December of shoplifting designer merchandise from a posh Beverly Hills department store. The frenzy of publicity she endured during the trial, though, was far too strong a punishment for whatever crime she may have committed, says Depp.

"She was unfairly beaten up in the media,"Depp said in an interview at a Los Angeles hotel to promote his upcoming Disney film Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl, opening in theatres July 9.

"It became like a TV show or a daily serial in the newspaper. It was ludicrous."

The 40-year-old actor hasn't spoken to Ryder since the actress's legal woes began. She was ultimately convicted of grand theft and vandalism, ordered to perform 480 hours of community service and placed on a three-year probation.

"But knowing her, knowing how sharp she is and smart she is and strong she is, she'll come out of that stuff fine," said Depp, whose much-publicized breakup with Ryder 10 years ago led to him getting his tattoo changed.

(When Depp's Pirates of the Caribbean co-star Orlando Bloom first saw the Wino Forever tattoo, he was genuinely baffled. "I looked at it and I was like, 'What's that? Wino Forever?' I'm not really big on popular culture.")

Having endured a couple of decades in the unrelenting Hollywood spotlight himself, Depp now makes his home in the south of France with singer-actress Vanessa Paradis and their two children.

He says the backlash against France that stemmed from French President Jacques Chirac's hesitance to join the U.S.-led war in Iraq not only had very little effect on the French people themselves, but it painted American politicians as buffoons on the world stage.

"You don't notice it at all in France," Depp said. "They're pretty calm in terms of that kind of thing. I think they really get it about Bush. More than most people.

"Chirac said, 'Listen, hold on, let's not invade Iraq. Let's hang on a minute and let's investigate and see these weapons of mass destruction. Let's see proof.' So my initial reaction was, 'Seems reasonable to me.' "

Depp said the crowning moment came when French products suddenly became taboo in the U. S. of A.

"My favourite thing out of all of it was the brilliant government officials who decided to change the name of french fries and french toast to freedom fries and freedom toast," he said.

"That, to me, was the ultimate revelation. They basically woke up one morning and addressed the globe and said, 'How do you do. We're idiots. We're childish. Just in case you wanted some proof, here it is. We're dumb asses.' "

Raising his children in the more laid-back environs of France is important to Depp. He said he'd advise his kids, including four-year-old daughter Lily-Rose Melody, to think twice about moving to America when they're older.

"America is kind of like Disneyland," Depp said. "It's a nice place to visit, spend some time in. It's a beautiful country. But at the moment I don't think you want to live there. You don't want to live in Disneyland, either."

JcL

Reminds me of how France has declared the word E-Mail to be "too American" and its now illegal to use in government documents or something.

__________________
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth then lies." - Nietzsche

Silvy

How true!
From my experience, people from around the world consider American foreign policies stupid. Though they would agree on a lot of points as to the reasoning behind them (terror, economy, etc) most think that the US has stepped over a few boundaries.

Several important global issues are not addressed / ignored / blocked by the suits in Washington.

I really wish that the issue with Iraq and Afghanistan would settle down, allow for a clean and quiet withdrawal of coallition forces, and that people will start to act rational again.
But I'm thinking that my dreams will stay just that for now: dreams

Silvy

__________________
"Do not kill. Do not rape. Do not steal. These are principles which every man of every faith can embrace. "
- Murphy MacManus (Boondock Saints)

Silvy

Are you comparing the two actions? Because the reasoning (as I understand it) behind the changes are different:

"French" -> "Freedom" was because of disagreement with the official French opinion.

"E-mail" -> some french counterpart was mostly because of the ever morphing language. The french language (as most other languages) has severe influences from the English language. Many words just creep in like :World Wide Web, Byte (which the french call octet for another reason entirely), hosting, you name it.

This is a problem for a lot of people because they love their language and want to keep it 'pure'. Banning the world e-mail from official documents is a case where that overall feeling is visible. But other countries have the same feelings (just not official 'rules' about them).

Note: even though I still assume at least some 'sneer' is directed at the U.S. with this action. But it is not nearly as evident as it was with "freedom"

Btw: I don't think many germans would notice if americans stopped using the word Kindergarten.

__________________
"Do not kill. Do not rape. Do not steal. These are principles which every man of every faith can embrace. "
- Murphy MacManus (Boondock Saints)

JcL

I didn't mean to compare them directly, it was as I stated, they simply reminded me of each other. I do assume there was some 'sneer' just as you say, and I understand the reasoning about wanting to keep the language pure.

__________________
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth then lies." - Nietzsche

archer2371

What? You think the French don't try to make anything that sounds remotely English into a French word? The French have been doing something similar to our Freedom Fries stuff. Believe me, I used to take French (tho I didn't continue my study because of this anti-French stuff, my teachers were idiots, I learned almost nothing, even after four years of French classes) and they frown upon "Franglais" and basically looks at anyone who uses somewhat English words with disdain. So you tell me who has been the sillier people. I'm glad that Depp made his comment in the United States, gives me a little more respect for the man. However, it doesn't excuse him going back to France and continuing that criticism, that's almost as bad as Peter Jennings criticizing the American Government when he wasn't even a United States citizen.

__________________
"This ain't no Ice Cream Social!"

"Hey Grif, Chupathingy...how bout that? I like it...got a ring to it."

"I have no earthly idea what it is I just saw, or what this place is, or where in the hell O'Malley is! My only choice is to blame Grif for coming up with such a flawed plan. Stupid, stupid Grif."

JcL

Whats wrong with that?

__________________
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth then lies." - Nietzsche

debaser

Interesting, thanks for the link. That is a far cry from his statement of a few days ago.

You will also notice that he was not villified, or even lynched, for his comments.

__________________

Lebell

Thanks everyone for keeping a good discussion on an even keel

__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

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Flippy

On another note, Actor Johnny Depp Disavows Anti-American Quotes

CrazySaturn

To me this is an issue of Depp/Media assholeness. While Depp may have made it clear to a couple newspapers that he was angered at the US government, he did not proclaim it nearly as loudly. However, after his movie comes out and starts settling down in terms of sales, he says it a little louder.
All the while the media was slightly ignoring said comments, until they saw how large of a story it could be (which is all the media is after) and started blasting it as loud as possible.

__________________
What's the difference between you and a mallard with a cold? One's a sick duck...I can't remember how it ends, but your mother is a whore!

Double D

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Denying any anti-American sentiment on his part, actor Johnny Depp (news) said on Thursday that quotes attributed to him as likening the United States to a "dumb puppy" were inaccurate and taken out of context.

"I am an American. I love my country and have great hopes for it," Depp said in a statement released by his Los Angeles-based publicist. "It is for this reason that I speak candidly and sometimes critically about it. I have benefited greatly from the freedom that exists in my country and for this I am eternally grateful."

Depp, currently starring in the swashbuckling film "Pirates of the Caribbean," issued the statement a day after the German news magazine Stern published an interview in which he ridiculed Washington's confrontation with France, where he lives, over the U.S. war in Iraq (news - web sites).

The magazine quoted the actor as saying "America is ... like a dumb puppy that has big teeth that can bite and hurt you, aggressive." He was further quoted as saying he wanted his children to "see America as ... a broken toy" that they should explore, get the feel of, then "get out."

Explaining his comments a day later, Depp he had been using a metaphor that was taken "radically out of context," adding, "There was no anti-American sentiment."

"What I was saying was that, compared to Europe, America is a very young country and we are still growing as a nation," he said. "My deepest apologies to those who were offended, affected, or hurt by this insanely twisted deformation of my words and intent."

His spokeswoman added that the Kentucky-born Depp, 40, lives in the south of France with his family because his wife, actress-singer Vanessa Paradis (news), is French.
---------------------------------------

Stern mag is a very dubious source of information. Someone else can google interviews with other famous people that the mag (rag?) has done a hatchet job on.

debaser

Well, if that is the case, allow me to be the first to retract my negative comments about him.

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westothemax

Did you see him on Leno while he was doing promo for Pirates? Jay Leno's interviews are usually bad, but it was one of the most awkward interviews ever. At one point, Johnny Depp asked Jay Leno if "he was one of those people who prefered Freedom Fries to French Fries". He wasn't as blunt about it as he was in the news article, but you could definately tell his opinion of the United States.

XenuHubbard

I'm sorry, people. I'm sitting here laughing.

My 2 cents:

An actor is a celebrity, meaning not important.
Looks like Malaysia and the US is on the same level when it comes to paying attention to what their actors say.

Seriously.
If this had happened anywhere else, people would have read the newspaper and said either "Cool" or "Dipshit", AND TURNED THE PAGE.

Hating him or loving him, getting any heated feelings over this is like giving every US celebrity an ego-blowjob. For fuck's sake, he is not employed by the government, and is not getting payed with your tax money.

If you really disagree, don't go to see his films. Or do like I do; as long as the Wu-Tang clan has a member named "Ghostface Killer"; I'll download their songs and not give them a cent. It's a nice deal which allows me to enjoy what I like without giving money to people I feel don't deserve it.

Or if you feel that is theft, just live without his films.
I'm sure you can manage.

__________________
The above was written by a true prophet. Trust me.

"What doesn't kill you, makes you bitter and paranoid". - SB2000

seretogis

I've said this on other boards that have this thread, and I'll say it here: Who cares?

The people that freak out about this to the point of wanting to censor moronic celebrities, are the same people that want the government involved in every facet of our lives, but won't admit it.

__________________
seretogis - sieg heil
perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost
no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

Double D

XH, seretogis, you make very good points.
But I enjoyed this discussion anyway.

debaser: What a gracious statement!

Thanks all!

--DD