aceventura3

I have clearly stated that I am not a victim, I am a volunteer. Why don't those words have meaning to you?

I will try to put this in the context of the thread and what I think lead to the Pol Pot comparison.

When Obama made his "they cling to their guns and religion" comment, in my mind he separated himself from me, I think millions of others felt the same. It became a "they" thing with Obama that did not include me. The "they" thing has nothing to do with liberalism or politics. For example, I never felt that way with Hillery Clinton or even Dennis Kuchinch, although I disagree with their politics - I perceive both as honest and sincere in their views. On the other hand I would never support Romney and I only supported McCain because of Palin, I believe both men are too political.

Since, Obama's comment had nothing to do with politics, what was it? I believe it to be a condescending attitude of intellectualism, where he believes he is superior than others. I have a bias against that. When a President makes that kind of separation, many perceive it to be "un-American" and are on high alert for any other examples - Rand Paul perceived one and call the President - un-American. The pattern that Obama shows is illustrated many places including on this forum.

So, one poster compares my thoughts as illustrated above to Pol Pot, and another says it is dead on. No challenges to those incredible statements. What was dead on about the comparison? I am not communist, I have never had anyone murdered/harmed/or hurt in any manner. I have never even been in a physical altercation in over 40 years, I am 50. I have no political power other than my vote. I have no power to speak of, not in the media, not in elected office, not the head of a major company, etc., so, what was dead on about the comparison? Then I give it back, and you folks get upset with me - perhaps for not taking the insult and saying thank you may I have another? Why is there an "us" vs. "them" attitude in this country, isn't it clear, isn't this an example?

---------- Post added at 09:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:07 PM ----------

I won't. However, I was told that he had already taken full responsibility. Should I assume you think Obama has handled this matter to your satisfaction?

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

Jinn

What I don't understand, considering your repeated attempts to cast yourself as the populist against political and academic elitism, is why you post here. If you truly think the educated are a social class detached from the particular concerns of the 'serf majority', then why bother discussing any issue intellectually? I have no respect for someone who believes intellectualism or education are negative things, because they've simply consigned themselves to ignorance in an effort to justify their beliefs.

If you're this type of person, truly so locked in your quotidian life that you're unwilling to accept that your opinion is not the best simply because you hold it, and that there are different levels of discourse, ranging from pub conversations to truly educated discussions about intellectual ideas, then why bother with a site which advertises itself as an 'evolution'? Why deliberately join a forum where people are attempting to advance their intellectual understandings of things to be the stick in the mud who is nothing more than an anti-intellectual?

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

silent_jay

Because you say one thing and do another, you say you're a volunteer, yet we have two threads here where you are proclaiming to have been attacked, yet rather than use the avenues to report this percieved attack that are set up on the forum, you'd rather piss and moan about it in two separate places, that makes you, playing the victim, if you don't want to report it, move on and quit the bitching.

As for the rest of the post, can't be bothered to be honest

Strange Famous

On the general point of Ron Paul... he claims to stand for something revolutionary, but no revolution was ever made through a ballet box. I guess thats why he is "anti-bail out", since the collapse of the market probably would cause a revolution one way or another.

But I understood that he had been completely discredited for publishing racist material?

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Jinn

Ron Paul ! = Rand Paul, just FYI.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

Strange Famous

"Rand Paul" wouldnt have what he said being reported to the media if it wasnt for Ron Paul though, would he?

---------- Post added at 01:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:49 AM ----------

edit

I just read Rand Paul's wikipedia page

There is some pretty wierd stuff like he supports the rights of hotels to turn away blacks if they are racists, but wants to criminalise abortion

And then I read that he apparently wants to disband the federal reserve and remove the American govt's power to set interest rates and control the flow of money!!

I mean, its good to have alternative voices and all, but this guy sounds a bit less serious than Screaming Lord Sutch (at least he knew he was a joke)

Can you imagine the US "allowing the market to set interest rates"??

_

As well as the above, he clearly hasnt got much of a sense of how to be a popularist (indicated by his pro-BP comments which started the thread)

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

The_Dunedan

Nevermind. I think I need to take a break from Politics for abit.

FoolThemAll

I just find it hard to take all the ace bashing seriously when his level of discourse is at least par for the course and certainly more fucking polite than a couple other posters, including that moderator who's continually fixated on his 'useless' posts.

I do like the idea of avoiding pages of defensiveness, although I'd replace it with nothing most of the time. As I have increasingly done in this forum. Ace may have flaws besides the ones he admits, but there's so much dependably adjacent bullshit that I don't really give a damn.

__________________
I wonder if we're stuck in Rome.

filtherton

The problem is that people, specifically ace, are taking the "ace bashing" seriously. I've experienced disrespect here, and I'm sure everyone else has too. The key is not making a big deal out of it. This is a section of the forum for people with thick skin. That may be less than ideal, but it is also a reflection of how political discussions usually play out.

Also, talking about one's hurt feelings is an effective way of changing the subject, and if you look at the timing of when certain people start complaining about their hurt feelings, it seems that it's generally a way of avoiding having to say "I was wrong." So, as an example, when certain members pretend to be able to read Dennis Kucinich's mind and put words into his mouth and are called on it, instead of saying, "Look, I got a little out of hand in my characterization of the situation," instead we get "WHY DO YOU ASSHOLES ALWAYS ATTACK ME PERSONALLY?!?!?"

Besides, Ace seems to be here just to fuck with us, and doesn't seem too shy about admitting this fact. I think he likes the "persecution" we give him because it reinforces his notion that anyone who doesn't agree with him is unreasonable, which serves to further bolster his own sense of intellectual superiority.

roachboy

there are some pretty deep political divisions amongst folk in the community.

it is obvious from past experience that we can talk across them or use them to grind discussions to a halt both pretty effectively and the second more often than the first.

i like to think myself pretty open, even if sometimes in the way an anthropologist is open about an "object" of study...curious wondering how x could possibly think as x does.
and mostly i think that's true.
but there are situations in which that closes down, interactions in which that stops. and because i like to think i'm pretty open, i tend to overlook or downplay those situations.

in the past few days i allowed my impatience with ace to get the better of me and allowed myself to be complicit in grinding two threads into powder.
the oil spill thread is still developing as the grim information about that grim disaster keeps coming and so there's momentum.
this thread is pretty much a corpse and like alot of corpse-threads has turned away from whatever points of discussion there may have been to pissiness.

we're small these days and there's no need to indulge heading down well-worn pathways to personal attack and vitriol. we're small these days and it's better to use that as a reason to be more open, not less.

so my apologies to the community for my part in allowing this to happen.
it bees like that sometimes though.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Idyllic

Why do you take a base positive of conservative politics (taxation with regard to it’s constituents’ p.o.v.s and desires) and then degrade it with rhetoric.

B.s. we never OPPOSED national healthcare, we just didn’t want some “hidden” bill secretly passed without full disclosure and understanding of what it meant to the average citizen, we wanted to insure this bill would do what it is supposed to do with the greatest benefit for all without breaking the backs of middle class Americans.

Where does it say we oppose regulations that would benefit out nations growth, find that for me.

And you blame the republicans for this, why precisely?

WHAT….. are you kidding me, what right do you have to assume that all conservatives could, or would believe this as an appropriate “reaction” to terrorist attacks on our nation terrorist attacks that destroyed the world trade centers and all those (non-combatant) innocents therein, downed 4 nearly full commercial jets with private citizens and exposed the hate of other countries toward the U.S. There was no brown-people profiling, there was terrorist profiling, actually, there was little bit of profiling in that, we were all checking grandmas too and baby sisters, don’t want anyone to think we assumed a particular sect where attempting to kill us all. A bit dramatic there, don’t you think, Fugly, the reality is most of those attacks and the following attacks were perpetrated by Muslim men, and some women, what was there to profile, the reality was pretty obvious, what I don’t understand is how some liberals seem to come across in a way as “we must of deserved it” and apologizing’ish for upsetting someone else so much that they want to kill us, why is that, oh, wait, I’m just another one of your crazy conservatives, right?

bs, Obama has handed out plenty in an attempt to recover the economical fuck up of many in our nation, not all were conservatives, and fugly, I’ve never fucked a mother, I am a mother so I guess I’m more of a motherfucked, especially by citizens like yourself who just can’t help profiling based on which political house you live in.

1. Your no better than they are with you self-righteous indignations and your own one-sided take on reality
2. You just perpetuate the stereotypical name calling finger pointer who doesn’t want to solve any problem just point them out and blame everybody else.

Let’s see how much more haters I can find here:

So lovely, I didn’t realize I was ANTI-democratic, I mean I guess I MUST be if I am pro something I must absolutely be “anti” also. Just because I like blue, doesn’t mean I hate orange, blue just happens to be my favorite, but orange is my son’s favorite color and I love it too, why can’t I be a conservative, a republican and still respect and admire the same qualities of Americanism in the liberals, the democrats that are also found in me. TPF has a lot of friends who haven’t quite figured this fact out and believe wrongly and in the process continue to perpetuate the “to have an opponent” WITHIN the American people, Americans are not by definition “Opponents” why is this so hard to acknowledge, why perpetuate ignorant bias racist thinking and rhetoric by implying one party has more participate that define it as such than another, it’s not truth. Why do you refer to me as your opponent, aren’t we both fighting FOR the same country?

Wow, and I thought all Americans at that time were holding hands and waving flags in solidarity for those who had died and those who were going to die in defense of our great nation, I guess I was wrong and it was all about politics, damn me. You know that statement above, after reading it again, is simply spiteful and derelict, imo. How can someone take the terrorist attacks that occurred on our own lands too our own people and turn them into such political bull shit? We declared war on a nation of people willing to die to kill us, they are called terrorist, they are not called Muslims or brown people for the specific reason that not all Muslims hate us and not all brown people are Muslims or hate us, they are called terrorist because they have vowed to destroy our way of life, all Americans. War costs money Tully, it was never about democrats or republicans, it was about America, at least that’s how I saw it.

It’s amazing, all the anti-republican rhetoric I need, is right here in the threads of TFP, the TFP brotherhood, that is supposed to be open to all, is greatly closed off, to a degree, to those who are conservative, who see themselves as republicans, it is as if those non-conformists who are "welcomed" here is merely a veiled reason to keep around some dogs to kick when you need a good laugh, or when the issues become more than a forest, it’s easier to just call the trees names and cut them down so you can “see” your own viewpoint better…… eventually there will be nothing left but empty dirt with hills in the distance where trees grown and get along, because we republicans would not be here amongst such seemingly staunch liberals if we didn’t agree with many of your opinions and want to play along, together, hello…..stop with the hating people, I am tiring of it and at time longing to just move on. I travel through you website and read all the work you are doing to keep people interested in this site, and yet it comes across so one sided, you lose out on 50% of you audience and overwhelm the rest of the conservatives with degrading attacks, seriously, I could do this in many threads where the attacks seem to fall back to name calling politics, it’s childish after awhile. I am not immune to it either.

We assassinated you character, I don't recall doing that, what exactly did we "give out." I can take it, but if it is just more name calling and rhetoric, I'm not going to, nor have I ever been, an enemy of the American people, I am the American people, just as you are also.

Again, I am compared to a racist because of my party affiliations, bull shit..... you perpetuate hatred in comments like this and perpetuate attacks on republicans by your wrongly assumed innuendos and sheeting remarks that cover our entire party with your incendiary labels poorly “shrouded” in your self promoting remarks.

A movement lead by the people of a nation does not always need a spearhead, and sometimes trying to apply a way of thinking to a single individual greatly reduces the movements ideology, we are not picking leaders to follow we are having wackos thrown in our faces and told this is what we must believe, well, in most cases it’s not and we find these hard core righties just as crazy as you do, in most situation re: extremist p.o.v’s theses "leader" are not our voice, our voice is Americanism, just as yours is.

crazy politics are perpetuated here too.

and now even those who are not crazy politics are wrong, just in the background trying to quietly destroy, and we are opponents again.

How is it that when you disagree you are right but when we disagree we are attacking you, even when we aren’t attacking you, even when we are just attempting to share our pov or our opinion, we are wrong and you all will go out of you way to prove it, harshly, gang style, and again, compared to tyrannical leaders who believed in genocide.

info

The name calling, actually in this case, the comparison of somebody with conservative viewpoints to a “tyrannical” genocidic murderer, wow, we are tiring of being forced to choke on this brand of b.s. being shoved repeatedly down our throats there tends to be more and more comparison being made in this kin.

This comparison was made because ace “kinda” made a legitimate remark that he did not want to pay taxes for colleges that educate their students to believe that religion and the NRA are the base negativities of the American people and that though they pay their taxes so we can all attend college, it is o.k. to perpetuate the ignorance and bigotry of the working class people who pay for your “intellectuals” to attend said schools, that makes him a pol pot, whatever, just appears to be another way to whip the dog to me, eh?

What I find even funnier is how when ace does make an observation about how he feels the “intellectuals” view the hard working truckers, you attack him on both levels, he is being bigoted by being realistic about the emotional stanch of most truckers, who do work very hard at their career and their views as part of the foundation of American privateering (enemies being anything anti-American) and self employ and are a strong voice in the American freedom and free enterprise movement, you make him seem bigoted and denigrating of them, which merely exposes your own base perceptions of these people, who ace never made derogatory, you did, and then you whip him with the alternatives and claim he is bigoted and bias against intelligent people in which you claim intellectuals are always the right individuals even if these individuals are educated on the backs of truckers to believe that the industry is full of the uneducated bigots, even I could see he was making a comparison of one who pays taxes to educate those who look down on me, WHY? Why anyone should be forced to pay taxes for universities that teach intolerance of alternate p.o.v.’s. I don’t mind paying taxes for a school that teaches tolerance, period, not a bunch of “professors” who spew one-sided views of anti-American, republican vs. democratic rhetoric. Go ahead, attack away, I know it’s coming, and I am absolutely SURE you all believe I must deserve it, I am a republican after all, a hated conservative who believes in nothing you all believe in, right?

You mean YOUR form of reality, right? the Pol Pot form of reality were we take one members pov and apply it to and then compare it with a hatemonger, genocide favoring, murderer, nice rb, and the entire, point finger, place blame, is again another thread where you attack the politics instead of the issues and when the issues are presented you start calling names and degrading others pov’s based on their party alignment.

Now ace is a martyr, his opinion is some great ideology not even remotely interesting to others, would it matter if it was, the attack you all seem to feel he “garners” are repetitive and isolating and just as name calling, and “gang” mentality as anything I’ve seen thus far, I find it a bit like rabid dogs yapping and yapping to torment someone they view as an inferior and to insure this participate understands his place within the pack, fuck this pack mentality, it takes the fun out of “being a part” of the TFP community.

Sometimes you all make it feel as though the only people with pertinent and viable information or opinions are those who believe the way most of you appear to, liberal, which is o.k. so long as being pro-liberal doesn’t’ also mean your anti-conservative.

No Jinn, I don’t think there are, I feel most of the derogatory post I come across are personal attacks on my pov re politics, that is the reality of this, how can you name callers be so blind and then defend your positions with well, they used to say it to. We try to give our opinions and we are labeled pol pot and crazies and un-American and blah, blah, blah, you don’t want our opinions you just want to beat us for them. When we deny our “perceived” and put apon racism you call us liars again and proceed to throw more crazies in our faces and claim we believe them too, we are conservative, we are all alike, b.s.

Where would one go, leave TFP, maybe this is you intent, create a safe place for liberals to pat each others back because you all ran off the evil conservatives.

So you admit to the same thing you blame ace for, going to far to make a point, albeit in aces he spoke of trucker and “intellectuals” and you speak of person of obviously anti-humane views…. and then everyone of the your liberal friends join in and surround ace in both forums and yap, yap, yap. If this were anywhere outside of a forum this would be gang bashing bordering on violence, you are all attacking him for the same thing you all do the only difference is he is not a liberal like you all are, everyone plays the devil advocate at time, that doesn’t make them the devil, you do know this, right, for if it were true, you too would have horns.

and now instead of responding to how ace feels by all these attacks we change our attacks and blame him for our attacks because we think he called us stupid when what he said was that he didn’t feel he should be forced to pay taxes to educate people who teach students to believe that the undereducated members of society are really bigoted, biased, racists, simple minded religious, rifle toting freaks set to destroy all liberals and convert America to fundamental Christianity. I think you all carry a lot of your own baggage and then view everyone who does not believe precisely the way you do as your enemy, or your opponent to be beaten, and beaten, until they leave or conform.

It’s nice you have noticed rb, and I think you right rb, but the damage is done, and it is pretty damn painful to have witnessed, just as a newbie outsider, I would like to think the stress of this whole damn oil spill has hurt all of us and we are bickering in an attempt to extinguish emotions the best we know how, but it still hurts when somebody, with friends, seems to demonize an individual because he doesn’t agree with another’s political path.

The mentality of bigotry really grew to embrace many friends and nearly make opponents out of many us all.

hmmmm, I don’t think anyone who participated in the bashing of anyone else his can escape ownership in this statement filterton, ace is not a lone wolf, as much as you all would like to make him one…… we are all a part of the same pack here, he just happens to be the one that doesn’t agree with the op and made the mistake of saying so, if this mentality continues people like myself, the_dundan, pan, ace, etc will be quieter and quieter until you entire forum is simply filled with game threads, won’t that be fun.

Find a better way to make your pov’s without personal attacks or broad sweeping statements debasing all conservatives, try to focus you remarks on an individual and to that individuals remarks and then wait to see where alliances lie, I think most of us would not be surprised to realize that the reality is we all want the same basic rights for all Americans, as well as all humans, and we mostly all believe in the same wrongs perpetrated by crazies on either extreme end of the party groups.

Or maybe your intent is to create the antithesis of fox the opponent of the conservative movement altogether, you can all start you own anti-republican website were debate is non existence until some unsuspecting righty shows up and then wham, you got em, only problem people read this and realize the one-sided p.o.v.’s and the attacks, and we just don’t come to play at all anymore.

__________________
you can tell them all you want but it won't matter until they think it does

p.s. I contradict my contradictions, with or without intention, sometimes.

filtherton

I never said he was a lone wolf. I said that he's making a big deal out of something that most of the other posters here just deal with.

It's not that he doesn't agree with the OP. There are plenty of op's I don't agree with, and I frequently make my view clear when that's the case. And if I suffer some disrespect as a result, I generally ignore it, because acknowledging it is a distraction.

To be honest with you, I'd only miss one, maybe two of those folks if they decided to stop posting in politics.

Idyllic

You didn't ignore here filterton, you entire last post prior to this, was centered around personal attacks and had nothing to do with the op., must have been part of that distraction your talking about. Regarding ace, it's not just one or two, it is a multitude of you who are ganging up on him in two different threads and insist his "ignorance" as you all perceive it and degrade his every effort for any form of retribution and "fair" play, but it's becoming customary here to attack ones political stance as personally defining based on the farthermost aspects of crazy and apply them to all within that party. I would not miss you either, I mentioned three, four including myself, again like I said, run off all those who disagree with you by belittling them and ganging up on them, your answer merely feeds the awareness’ I am presenting to you.

__________________
you can tell them all you want but it won't matter until they think it does

p.s. I contradict my contradictions, with or without intention, sometimes.

rahl

Idyllic, I'm not sure you even read the posts in these two threads, or the multitude of posts in various threads in politics by a few certain individuals. They will make wild accusations, then when those accusations are proven wrong with factual information they will cry foul or victim and then bitch and moan. It gets very tiring dealing with the same BS over and over, and generally degrades the discussion. No one has even mentioned you in either of these posts, they were dealing specifically with ace and his MO in these threads.

__________________
"Your life is Yours alone...Rise up and live it"

silent_jay

Bold added......you declared war on an ideology, unless terror is now a country, as in 'The War Against Terror', not everyone in Afghanistan is willing to 'die to kill you guys'.
So what are we supposed to call it then, if someone posts something that is obviously bullshit? Are we supposed to just let it pass and slide so as not to 'hurth their feelings'? I mean jesus christ as I've said before, feel attacked, report the fuckin post, don't piss and moan about it if you aren't going to report the bloody thing, it gets old quickly to see the victim act over and over when someone posts bullshit and they get called on it, then they act all hurt like they have sand in their vagina.

Idyllic

Another thing, I notice the words beneath members avatars, I see moderator, super moderator, admin, etc. and have a tendency to apply more respect to these individuals because I believe they must have done something to have earned the title, and I believe there are a lot of "follower" type people who look up to what they have to say and read just the minute information and then the "monitors" posts to get an idea of the thread. I think it's pretty harsh when moderators perpetuate hate in any form, but especially in a form that embraces comparing tyrannical leaders filled by ignorance, homophobia, racism, bigotry and all around hate with TFP members based merely on the members personal pov's of another because of the political party they feel best represents them, typically they reside at the top of the bell curve regarding political sensibilities and I would be lead to believe most conservatives at this forum find themselves there, neither to far on either side of the republican spectrum, yet this is where we always seem to be attacked from.

__________________
you can tell them all you want but it won't matter until they think it does

p.s. I contradict my contradictions, with or without intention, sometimes.

silent_jay

Moderators are just regular members when not acting in a moderator capacity, they have the right to post their opinions as well, and well, if someone's pov has been proven to be false with facts, what are they to call it, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, chances are, it's a duck.

Idyllic

I am relatively new here rahl, just as many of your people will be if you will allow us in, my perspective cannot be so far askew for you all to not notice this, I read plenty, ask around, I see what I see... and I have read this post back to front to back twice, doesn't change the words within it. As far as factual information goes, er, huh, most of this is opinion, just not very nicely stated, and if you speak of the oil spill thread, again, read it, still a lot of emotional responses and reporting and blame mongering. I would agree, dealing with the same bs over and over again is tiring. I like ace, I like the real parts of these debates, I am just reflecting on what I have seen and read, but you don't have to listen to me, you don't have to read my posts, I'm fine with that, I just thought you all wanted more members to join and be a part of your family of knowledge, I guess I must be wrong.

__________________
you can tell them all you want but it won't matter until they think it does

p.s. I contradict my contradictions, with or without intention, sometimes.

rahl

Idyllic I get that you are new, I'm not exactly an old timer, but your above post follows along the same lines of people playing the victim card again. I was trying to convey to you how certain other people tend to post in this forum. You were not one of those people I was referring to.

The majority of the threads in here are not pub discussions. If you post an opinion, and it is provably BS, then you are going to be called on it. The problem is that when some folks are called on it they will piss and moan and derail a perfectly good thread. that's all I'm saying.

__________________
"Your life is Yours alone...Rise up and live it"

Idyllic

We declared war on terrorism silent_ jay, not on any specific people or sect but on all those within or without a "people" or "sect" regardless of location, who would attempt to destroy the American way or terrorize any people that believe in personal freedom as it's foundation (as I believe your countrymen are fighting terrorism too). These terrorist are far spread and in many countries, this is why we did not declare war on a specific location and instead on a specific mentality, the terrorist mentality, even the ones who reside in our own country. You did note that I did not mention a location, right, you did that. Classy comparison there jay, and in the politics arena, appropriate, I'm sure, excuse me while I go rinse the sand out of my pussy, being a Floridian beach girl though, I personally kinda like it.

__________________
you can tell them all you want but it won't matter until they think it does

p.s. I contradict my contradictions, with or without intention, sometimes.

silent_jay

Who cares if my comparison is classy or not? It wasn't intended towards you at all, it was a generalisation of how some here act when called on their BS, they make outrageous statements, get called on them, then proceed to cry about being attacked for a page and a half.

So you declared war on an ideology, kind of hard to kill an ideology, wasn't that tried before? You may not have specified a location, but it's pretty easy to see you were referring to a nation when you said that, I mean the original quote shows that "We declared war on a nation of people willing to die to kill us", I mean you mentioned nation, you obviously meant a country, not just a location, or an ideology. Yes we are fighting in Afghanistan, but thankfully we will soon be leaving that clusterfuck, I've seen enough flags at half mast in my hometown.

Idyllic

or a pol pot? or mimic Germany in the 30's? whatever.....

I think if this is the mentality of what is appropriate regarding calling somebody out, you all won't have to worry about too much quacking, you should worry more about trying to draw people who wish to debate intelligently instead of just join your liberal party ideology and then you can all sit around singing kum ba ya, and patting each other on the backs for your singular political devotions and driving all your demons conservatives' away while you tell each other stories about the dreaded republicans, sounds scary. You can call it the LTFP. and make big signs that say "NO CONSERVATISM ALLOWED"

__________________
you can tell them all you want but it won't matter until they think it does

p.s. I contradict my contradictions, with or without intention, sometimes.

silent_jay

You know, maybe if those who piss and moan used the report post button, rather than pissing and moaning about it, that would be a solution, rather it's, you attacked me, and piss and moan about it, for a page and a half, and then others come along and say it's just going to be a Liberal party, and Conservatives aren't allowed, which is just more bullshit, I mean, you seem to see people calling others on their BS as the issue, what are they supposed to do if someone obviously posts bullshit then?

Idyllic

There are more posts that are less about calling the opinion bs and more about attacking the poster in general and initially, it would seem easier to me to just ignore those "whining" posts that you find to be inflammatory, to the point that your response is personally degrading, then to follow through and bash them personally and then whine yourself when your victim complains of being degraded by you. hmmm.

__________________
you can tell them all you want but it won't matter until they think it does

p.s. I contradict my contradictions, with or without intention, sometimes.

silent_jay

That's the button for these posts that 'attack the poster', who's fault is it if someone chooses not to use it? If they don't bother to report it, don't bother to whine about it, you can't seem to understand that button is there for a reason.

Idyllic

You put words in my mouth, you choke me with your own perceptions of who you think I am, you don't ask me, you put you own words here, and you don't respect my opinion as it is apparent by your repeated attempt now to label my view as a racist bigot by insisting I am talking about a specific location of people when I am NOT.

I don't see no land masses named here, do you? A nation of terrorist, yes an ideology of hate and kill, with a history of oppression and coercion and tyranny, yes jay, we declared war on that, where ever we may find it, where ever it resides.

---------- Post added at 06:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:32 PM ----------

That's a mature response, Well if you don't like it then go tell on me. I wasn't raised to be a tattle-tail, it was frowned upon by my republican family to call names, to be a tattle-tail and a finger pointer or place blame on others, it just wasn't something we were taught was appropriate or mature. I don't point at all, I indicate with two fingers where an issue may lie, and I was taught to accept responsibility for feelings I hurt in others and to try to live my life without intentionally degrading other individuals in the process, respect is a cornerstone for a good southern upbringing, (try not to read your own prejudices into this, I am not nor have I ever been a racist, I am a southerner, they are not the same thing regardless of what you've been told.)

__________________
you can tell them all you want but it won't matter until they think it does

p.s. I contradict my contradictions, with or without intention, sometimes.

silent_jay

Label your view as racist and bigoted? What the hell are you on about? Where did I do that, I was merely saying you originally said 'we declared war on a nation of people who want to kill us' a nation, then you came up with some fancy explanation, if that's calling you racist well, I don't know what to say, but you're proving our point of the victim act, thanks for that ,jesus christ, and you say I'm putting words in your mouth.
That's the point of the report post button, is it that hard of a concept to grasp, I mean, it has nothing to do with your upbringing or if you're a Republican or a Liber or anything in between, you can't seem to undersdtand this, yet go on rants about racism and other bullshit that wasn't even mentioned, if you aren't going to read what I'm typing, this conversation is pointless.

Again with the racist accusation, show me that, show me where I said you're a racist or a bigot, fuckin hell, stop reading words that aren't there, try the ones that are in front of you.
Now who's assuming things? I have no prejudices of southerners, never even knew nor cared if you were one, but please assume you know what I think, it's quite funny to read, and toitally off, but continue to think you know all about me and my 'prejudices', I'l leave this thread now, as you obviously have issues with comprehension, and can't see the words as they're typed, and would prefer to make up your own.

We should call this one victim act 3.0

Strange Famous

Just to get back to the original guy

Right wing or Left wing, is there really anybody on this site who wants any kind of power in the hands of a guy who believes that the US govt should abdicate the right to control monetary policy??

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Idyllic

That remark above, the one that you took after I said a war on terror, and applied a people to it, a people that live within a specific land (you know afghanis) and you implied I was speaking specifically of them which in turn would imply that I am a racist and a bigot against their countrymen, by declaring war on them, I did not do that, that IS what you did jay..... or is this another "fact" that you want to degrade me for and then blame me for and finally accuse me of whining over, go ahead, push the button.

Where does this form of debate get us..... I wonder, just further from intelligent discussions, I read your words, I know exactly what your doing and I understand what your doing now, Jesus Christ....... jay.

__________________
you can tell them all you want but it won't matter until they think it does

p.s. I contradict my contradictions, with or without intention, sometimes.

silent_jay

you have a vivid imagination.

Idyllic

and I see you changed your post, nice..... remove your rant so as to isolate my words, super nice.....

__________________
you can tell them all you want but it won't matter until they think it does

p.s. I contradict my contradictions, with or without intention, sometimes.

silent_jay

Editing posts is allowed, it had nothing to do with what you posted, but keep thinking you know it all, and what rant did I move exactly? you assume so much it's laughable, and this is a pointless conversation, as you are obviously not reading what I type, so have fun, I'm done

Idyllic

Not me....

__________________
you can tell them all you want but it won't matter until they think it does

p.s. I contradict my contradictions, with or without intention, sometimes.

filtherton

I didn't say I'd ignore other people making an issue of being disrespected. I said that I tend to ignore when other people are being disrespectful to me. See how Ace's persecution has become the subject of this thread? I've found the best response to people trying to drag you through the mud is to keep your head up.

Well, look, nobody gangs up on Seaver, and nobody gangs up on The Dunedan. I like chatting with these folks. I imagine that has something to do with the fact that neither of them has attempted to throw themselves a pity party when someone disagrees with them in a mean way. And also that they seem to have a more solid basis for their perspectives than "well, that's just how I feel." You weren't around for ustwo, but he was pretty game for anything the meany libs could dish out here.

I don't think Ace is any more ignorant than anyone else. Occasionally he makes good points. I just think he argues disingenuously, or at the very least, he uses disingenuousness as an excuse when his ideas don't go over well. I've tried arguing straight up with him in the past, and it just doesn't go anywhere.

roachboy

ok so you want to know why i made the pol pot allusion? it was a response to this lovely quip from your boy ace, idyllic:

and follows because the khmyer rouge had a very similar problem with "intellectuals" who lived in cities in particular but they couldn't really tell who they were so decided that the way to get rid of these "intellectuals" was to track down everyone who lived in a city and wore glasses. which they did. and they sent these people to lovely re-education camps where they learned about how bad it was to be a parasite relative to righteous working people as they were being worked to death. thousands and thousands of nasty people wearing glasses died because of this.


it's churlish to mention this ugly story.

but the above, like much of what's in this thread, is not a conservative argument.
there are many reasonable conservatives who make intelligent thoughtful arguments that one might disagree with but which are worth thinking about. i actually enjoy talking to these folk and even learn things from them.
but those arguments are quite different from the above.

and the situation that this post is about is all the more stupid because it's clear that none of the conservative folk who are all bent about being compared with pol pot know enough about the khmyer rouge to know what the comparison is about.

so perhaps what's happening here is a defense of ignorance.
but that's not conservatism.
that's just fucking ignorance.
if you want to defend being ignorant why not man up and defend that?
dispense with this nonsense about poor me poor conservative me and just say it: i don't know shit about the world i dont know shit about the past i dont know shit about the present and that's ok because it is my particular form of not knowing shit that's at stake here and i own it.
own your ignorance.
go ahead.
it's important.
just don't confuse it with being conservative or being anything at all other that what it is.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Idyllic

rb, I read the thread, I know what ace said, still did not warrant that form of comparison, his opinion of “intellectuals” wasn’t meant for true people of intelligent value, it was a scenario where in he was attempting to expose unfair taxation, in his opinion, not the destruction of all intelligent people but that he did not want to pay taxes for a school that teaches it’s student to look down on the working man, you did not approach his scenario with logic or intelligence, you attacked him and his viewpoint and called him a bigot and a racist for his views and then proceeded to garner support from many others in a thread that was already based in political rhetoric and bashing conservatives, albeit wacko conservatives, but conserves none the less.

I am not the only person who has stated, in this thread, the apparent bullying he received here. I understand he may have some form of history, though if this is the just of it, I am more inclined to believe the history is not all his own in producing those who instead of debating prefer a form of silencing by attack, shame, and then complain when a member just doesn’t quietly withdrawal from the thread as he has been brow beaten to do….. You are pretty comfortable jumping from an opinion to labeling the person, as above, I am now defending ignorance, so my statement goes from something akin to my opinions of the incidents within this thread to I am simply defending ignorance because, yes here it is, I am ignorant to….. or maybe I should say:

lower my head and quietly go away because the grand rb says I don’t know what he does, whatever, you appear to be no theologian, rb, and a lot of the time you don’t come across as nice at all. You have no right to insult others to the degree of comparing them to mass murderers and then just expect it to all go away because you say so.

You attack like a Tasmanian devil, screaming and hurling insults with teeth exposed and then justify it as, well, they deserved it and if your don’t see that, then you are just as ignorant as they are. I really think this exposes more of your character than you should divulge on a forum of this magnitude where general debate follows on the words of logic and not simply animal attacks when you need to defend your own pov. Not to mention how this looks to lurkers who are reading and finding that a moderator is o.k. with hurling insults of this magnitude and then attempt to support it by calling me stupid for not understanding why you compared another member to a sadistic, genocidic mass murderer.

Look rb, you can type all day long as to what you think your justification was for making the remarks you made, but in the end, that is all they are, your own justification, your own excuses to make you look less like an angry kid.

Then why do it, sensationalism, effect, it wasn’t effective, though to some, maybe it would have scared them away, you are good at that, at those grandiose statements with all their shock and awe affect, but ace is not threatened by you, not scared away by you, neither am I. However, that super moderator below your avatar garners support, lots of support from newbies, who jump on your band wagon and come to your call of degrading and just join right in (this is why I speak of lib and conserve. the thread dictated it and that was the support you garnered).

I would expect kinder inferences from someone of your intellectual caliber, unless you view yourself as one of these “intellectuals” who teach their students to look down upon the blue collars, maybe you were insulted by ace, somehow I just don’t think so, either way, you took this thread exactly where it is, you put ace exactly where he is and then you complain about it and call him a whiner and just continue to debase the whole issue to justify your own comments, and your friends rallied to your support of your “unwarranted injustices” poor YOU had to deal with from that complainer ace, what a joke, what a fucking joke, and still you defend yourself and try to explain why ace deserved to be compared to pol pot, just bullshit rb, and further your insults by calling me ignorant for defending him, simply, rude, self indulgent bull shit.

__________________
you can tell them all you want but it won't matter until they think it does

p.s. I contradict my contradictions, with or without intention, sometimes.

Baraka_Guru

Where are these universities, and who are these intellectuals, that are teaching their students to (how to?) look down upon the working class? I didn't know universities have Righteous Elitism 101: How to Keep the Stupid and Unwashed in Their Place.

I viewed the Pol Pot reference as an ironically exaggerated response to a ridiculous position put forward by ace.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

roachboy

right-o.

so you know, i didn't explain the pol pot reference to defend it.
i don't think it requires defending. i think it was an accurate as a response to a remarkably stupid comment. which you're apparently fine with. whatever. enjoy.


i am going to take my Evil Persecuting Self outside for a while and walk around in the lovely morning air. and later on i will join up with other Evil Persecuting Elitists and we will Conspire to do Evil and Persecute more Regular Folk like yourself. maybe roast a couple regular conservative folk on a spit or something. then we'll cut them up and eat them while saying Bad Things About Capitalism.

you know just another sunday of doing what we do when us Persecuting Elitists get together.
and maybe work a game or two of croquet in.
because that's how we roll.

idyllic, i hope that you do something parallel. go outside walk around. it's a lovely day. and the world is big.
enjoy your sunday.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Idyllic

Actually, rb, I am headed to the caverns with my husband and sons to enjoy a spectacular day of spelunking and geocaching, thank you for the kind undertones, I really didn't need them to have a good day, but I will take what ever I can get from you rb, and consider it a compliment. enjoy your BBQ, glad I'M not invited, hell, I'm to grisly to enjoy anyway.

__________________
you can tell them all you want but it won't matter until they think it does

p.s. I contradict my contradictions, with or without intention, sometimes.

aceventura3

I post my views, I defend them/change them/explain them, and I often respond in a manner similar to the way people respond to me. It is that simple.

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."