Some choice Bushisms - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Cynosure · 12-02-2008, 06:55 AM

President Bush's accidental wit and wisdom...

Quote:

"This thaw—took a while to thaw, it's going to take a while to unthaw."—Alexandria, La., Oct. 20, 2008

"Anyone engaging in illegal financial transactions will be caught and persecuted."—Washington, D.C., Sept. 19, 2008

"We're fixing to go down to Galveston and obviously are going to see a devastated part of this fantastic state."—Houston, Sept. 16, 2008

"The people in Louisiana must know that all across our country there's a lot of prayer—prayer for those whose lives have been turned upside down. And I'm one of them."—Baton Rouge, La., Sept. 3, 2008

"But oftentimes I'm asked: Why? Why do you care what happens outside of America?"—Washington, D.C., June 26, 2008

"And they have no disregard for human life."—Describing the brutality of Afghan fighters, Washington, D.C., July 15, 2008

"Throughout our history, the words of the Declaration have inspired immigrants from around the world to set sail to our shores. These immigrants have helped transform 13 small colonies into a great and growing nation of more than 300 people."—Charlottesville, Va., July 4, 2008

"There is some who say that perhaps freedom is not universal. Maybe it's only Western people that can self-govern. Maybe it's only, you know, white-guy Methodists who are capable of self-government. I reject that notion."—London, June 16, 2008

And I, unfortunately, have been to too many disasters as president."—discussing flooding in the Midwest, Washington, D.C., June 17, 2008

"Let's make sure that there is certainty during uncertain times in our economy."—Washington, D.C., June 2, 2008

"We got plenty of money in Washington. What we need is more priority."—Washington, D.C., June 2, 2008

"And so the fact that they purchased the machine meant somebody had to make the machine. And when somebody makes a machine, it means there's jobs at the machine-making place."—visiting the Silverado Cable Co., Mesa, Ariz., May 27, 2008

I'll be long gone before some smart person ever figures out what happened inside this Oval Office."—Washington, D.C., May 12, 2008

"The public education system in America is one of the most important foundations of our democracy. After all, it is where children from all over America learn to be responsible citizens, and learn to have the skills necessary to take advantage of our fantastic opportunistic society."—Santa Clara, Calif., May 1, 2002

"After all, a week ago, there were—Yasser Arafat was boarded up in his building in Ramallah, a building full of, evidently, German peace protestors and all kinds of people. They're now out. He's now free to show leadership, to lead the world."—Washington, D.C., May 2, 2002 (Thanks to M. Bateman.)

I want to thank the dozens of welfare to work stories, the actual examples of people who made the firm and solemn commitment to work hard to embetter themselves."—Washington, D.C., April 18, 2002 (Thanks to George Dupper.)

"And so, in my State of the—my State of the Union—or state—my speech to the nation, whatever you want to call it, speech to the nation—I asked Americans to give 4,000 years—4,000 hours over the next—the rest of your life—of service to America. That's what I asked—4,000 hours." —Bridgeport, Conn., April 9, 2002

"It would be a mistake for the United States Senate to allow any kind of human cloning to come out of that chamber."—Washington, D.C., April 10, 2002

You can read more Bushisms, here...

The Complete Bushisms (Updated Frequently) - Slate Magazine

There are pages and pages of this stuff!
-----Added 2/12/2008 at 10 : 39 : 27-----
Some more...

Quote:

"And so, General, I want to thank you for your service. And I appreciate the fact that you really snatched defeat out of the jaws of those who are trying to defeat us in Iraq."—meeting with Army Gen. Ray Odierno, Washington, D.C., March 3, 2008

"I don't particularly like it when people put words in my mouth, either, by the way, unless I say it."—Crawford, Texas, Nov. 10, 2007

"We're going to—we'll be sending a person on the ground there pretty soon to help implement the malaria initiative, and that initiative will mean spreading nets and insecticides throughout the country so that we can see a reduction in death of young children that—a death that we can cure."—Washington, D.C., Oct. 18, 2007

"All I can tell you is when the governor calls, I answer his phone."—San Diego, Calif., Oct. 25, 2007

"I got a lot of Ph.D.-types and smart people around me who come into the Oval Office and say, 'Mr. President, here's what's on my mind.' And I listen carefully to their advice. But having gathered the device, I decide, you know, I say, 'This is what we're going to do.' "— Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007

"You know, when you give a man more money in his pocket—in this case, a woman more money in her pocket to expand a business, it—they build new buildings. And when somebody builds a new building somebody has got to come and build the building. And when the building expanded it prevented additional opportunities for people to work."—Lancaster, Pa., Oct. 3, 2007

"I'm going to try to see if I can remember as much to make it sound like I'm smart on the subject."—answering a question concerning a possible flu pandemic, Cleveland, July 10, 2007

"I cannot look a mother and father of a troop in the eye and say, 'I'm sending your kid into combat, but I don't think we can achieve the objective.' "—Washington, D.C., July 12, 2007

"More than two decades later, it is hard to imagine the Revolutionary War coming out any other way."—Martinsburg, W. Va., July 4, 2007

"I've heard he's been called Bush's poodle. He's bigger than that."—discussing former British Prime Minister Tony Blair, as quoted by the Sun newspaper, June 27, 2007

"These are big achievements for this country, and the people of Bulgaria ought to be proud of the achievements that they have achieved."—Sofia, Bulgaria, June 11, 2007

"We understand the fright that can come when you're worried about a rocket landing on top of your home."—Washington, D.C., May 17, 2007

"There's a lot of blowhards in the political process, you know, a lot of hot-air artists, people who have got something fancy to say."—Washington, D.C., May 17, 2007

Wisdom and strength, and my family, is what I'd like for you to pray for."—Washington, D.C., May 2, 2007

"The question is, who ought to make that decision? The Congress or the commanders? And as you know, my position is clear—I'm a commander guy."—Washington, D.C., May 2, 2007

"There are some similarities, of course—death is terrible."—on comparisons between the wars in Vietnam and Iraq, Tipp City, Ohio, April 19, 2007

"I said to her, make sure the rug says 'optimistic person comes to work.' "—describing his instructions to the first lady in choosing a rug for the Oval Office, Tipp City, Ohio, April 19, 2007

aceventura3 · 12-02-2008, 10:17 AM

I am going to miss Bush. I have an affinity for people who are less than "perfect" and who have no pretense in their character. Even when Bush mis-spoke, you knew exactly what he meant, as opposed to some who put all the right words together but lack clarity.

Daniel_ · 12-02-2008, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceventura3

I am going to miss Bush. I have an affinity for people who are less than "perfect" and who have no pretense in their character. Even when Bush mis-spoke, you knew exactly what he meant, as opposed to some who put all the right words together but lack clarity.

If Bush were to hang out his shingle as a lawyer, or a real estate agent, would you accept that "I knew what he meant" or would you expect that he would get it right?

However his down home charm makes people feel, there are a lot of people in the world that are scared witless of his apparent cavalier attitude with language.

aceventura3 · 12-02-2008, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel_

If Bush were to hang out his shingle as a lawyer, or a real estate agent, would you accept that "I knew what he meant" or would you expect that he would get it right?

I understand the nature of your question, and yes, when something requires precision Bush may not be the man for the job, Bush is a broad stokes kind of guy. However, in my view being a President is about character, values and principles. I would rather have a President who communicates with clarity over a President who lacks clarity but is an exceptional communicator.

Quote:

However his down home charm makes people feel, there are a lot of people in the world that are scared witless of his apparent cavalier attitude with language.

Then they fear the wrong thing. They should fear the man who is a smooth but deceptive communicator.

smooth · 12-02-2008, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceventura3

communicates with clarity

what is your definition of 'clarity'?

your post approaches the same level of engagement with the meaning of words that the Bushisms quotes demonstrate...so he either doesn't care to communicate effectively or he wants to appear as though he doesn't. Assuming communicating effectively hinges on using meanings of words correctly and employing coherent logic, which I tend to believe.

aceventura3 · 12-02-2008, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smooth

what is your definition of 'clarity'?

your post approaches the same level of engagement with the meaning of words that the Bushisms quotes demonstrate...so he either doesn't care to communicate effectively or he wants to appear as though he doesn't. Assuming communicating effectively hinges on using meanings of words correctly and employing coherent logic, which I tend to believe.

When Bush said he would do whatever he could to protect our nation from terrorist attacks, we knew what that meant.

When Bush said you are with us or against us, we knew what that meant.

When Bush said we were going to stay the course during his re-election we knew what that meant.

However, we had people like Kerry who were for the war and against it. We have Democratic leaders wanting to treat the war like a criminal matter, whatever that means. We have people understood the Sadaam threat but later saying he was not really a threat. We have an enemy who declared war against us, but some people who say we can pick and choose when, where and how we engage in war. Bush's clarity was refreshing. I do, however, understand the way some focus on his mis-statements, ideally a President would never make a mistake, but they do. Focusing on things that are trivial while missing real messages can often be a problem.

smooth · 12-02-2008, 12:20 PM

well I hate to break this to you, aceventura, but the examples you cited were either truisms or tautologies.
they make sense because they are true because the statement makes them true by the logic within the sentence.

clarity is supposed to be how closely one's communication approximates the reasoning, or vision, underlying his or her expressions.

that means when you say something, how well does it communicate what you're thinking about and why you're thinking the thing you are talking about

when a president is making a case for war, given that's the quotes you're using for example here, then most people in a democratic country expect their leaders to explain why they are supposed to be going to war and [/ihow[/i] they are going to go to war...and more importantly for some, what happens after the war.

it's not enough to simply leave things as important as war to truisms or tautologies because they don't allow for any kind of feedback loops...unless you don't think that the population should have much say in war propositions. and some people believe that, but I don't.

dc_dux · 12-02-2008, 12:20 PM

Unfortunately, historians and the general public will probably never get a full and accurate accounting of the Bush presidency.

The Presidential Records Act, enacted following the Nixon administration, requires the National Archive to catalog and retain White House records, which are officially owned by the public. That includes White House memos and other text-based records, photos, the president's daily calendar of activities, the Secret Service list of White House visitors and the White House's e-mail records.

Since Clinton, and even more so with Bush, a vast amount of the records have been in the form of e-mails....no surprise there, it is a reflection of the shift to technology in all segments of society.

However, soon after Bush entered office, the White House dismantled the Automated Records Management System that Clinton had implemented to archive e-mails and as a result, somewhere between 5 and 10 million e-mails have been deleted from White House servers.....many related to exchanges leading up to the invasion of Iraq, warrantless wiretaps of US citizens, the DOJ attorney firings, the outing of Valerie Plame....

....coincidence?

aceventura3 · 12-02-2008, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smooth

well I hate to break this to you, aceventura, but the examples you cited were either truisms or tautologies.
they make sense because they are true because the statement makes them true by the logic within the sentence.

Such is the nature of truth.

Quote:

clarity is supposed to be how closely one's communication approximates the reasoning, or vision, underlying his or her expressions.

Yes, and when Bush said what he meant we had people who said he lied. For example Bush asked for authority to use the military and he said that he would use the military if Sadam did not live up to the conditions set. Sadam failed to live up to the conditions, and Bush used the military to remove Sadam from power. Why did we have people in Congress saying they did not really think Bush would use military force? Please, if you ignore everything else, help me understand that one thing. Please.

Quote:

when a president is making a case for war, given that's the quotes you're using for example here, then most people in a democratic country expect their leaders to explain why they are supposed to be going to war and [/ihow[/i] they are going to go to war...and more importantly for some, what happens after the war.

No war time President accurately predicted how a war would go. That is unrealistic and has no historic basis as an expected standard of Presidential performance or communication skill.

dc_dux · 12-02-2008, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceventura3

Yes, and when Bush said what he meant we had people who said he lied. For example Bush asked for authority to use the military and he said that he would use the military if Sadam did not live up to the conditions set. Sadam failed to live up to the conditions, and Bush used the military to remove Sadam from power. Why did we have people in Congress saying they did not really think Bush would use military force? Please, if you ignore everything else, help me understand that one thing. Please.

I'm not one of those who said Bush lied every time he spoke about the events leading up to the invasion of Iraq. He did misrepresent the facts to the American people by selectively describing pre-war intel in his public remarks.

He absolutely lied when he said Congress had access to all the pre-war intel that he had. That is irrefutable.

And, with the destruction of millions of WH e-mail exchanges during this time....we will never know the whole truth about how the WH sold the war to Congress and the American people.

aceventura3 · 12-02-2008, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_dux

Unfortunately, historians and the general public will probably never get a full and accurate accounting of the Bush presidency.

Have we ever gotten a full and accurate accounting of any presidency?

Quote:

The Presidential Records Act, enacted following the Nixon administration, requires the National Archive to catalog and retain White House records, which are officially owned by the public. That includes White House memos and other text-based records, photos, the president's daily calendar of activities, the Secret Service list of White House visitors and the White House's e-mail records.

In my view the Act is not workable and I think even Presidents have a right to private council, private thought, private reflection. What is important is the actual public record and actual actions taken.

dc_dux · 12-02-2008, 12:40 PM

ace....why am I not surprised by your defense of Bush.....others did it before Bush and we dont have the right to know.

The same defensive argument (that you can never support with facts, btw) you throw out with every documented charge or allegation against Bush.

aceventura3 · 12-02-2008, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_dux

He did misrepresents the facts to the American people by selecting describing pre-war intel.

Again, the standard you set has no historic precedent. A President making a case for war by definition is going to select evidence that supports the case. By definition your argument can apply to any case ever made for war.

Quote:

And, he absolutely lied when he said Congress had access to all the pre-war intel that he had. That is irrefutable.

This, in my view is a focus on the trivial. If Bush had 1,000 pages saying Sadam was a threat and Congress had 999 pages saying he was a threat, you can say he lied, but the real point is that Sadam was a threat and everyone interested had enough information to draw an informed conclusion.
-----Added 2/12/2008 at 03 : 44 : 11-----

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_dux

ace....why am I not surprised by your defense of Bush.....others did it before Bush and we dont have the right to know.

Gee, I have been the number 1 defender of Bush on TFP. I am not surprised that you are not surprised. Is there anything else we can not be surprised about? Hey, is this an example of tautology?

dc_dux · 12-02-2008, 12:45 PM

LOL......you're always entertaining ace....if not anywhere near close to basing your conclusions on facts.
-----Added 2/12/2008 at 03 : 49 : 37-----

So what if millions of WH emails leading up to the invasion of Iraq were (intentionally?) destroyed.

smooth · 12-02-2008, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceventura3

No war time President accurately predicted how a war would go. That is unrealistic and has no historic basis as an expected standard of Presidential performance or communication skill.

I specifically wrote:
how
why
and
after
where do you see in my post that I expected anyone to say anything about during the war?

aceventura3 · 12-02-2008, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_dux

LOL......you're always entertaining ace....if not anywhere near close to basing any of your conclusions on facts.
-----Added 2/12/2008 at 03 : 49 : 37-----
So what that millions of WH emails leading up to the invasion of Iraq were (intentionally?) destroyed.

Speaking of clarity. Isn't my point that the email are not relevant? What do you expect from the emails? We went to war, the emails won't change that. Like I said even a President should have rights to private thought. every major decision made by any human will involve conflict. To me it seems your interest seems to be pure voyeurism.

-----Added 2/12/2008 at 04 : 01 : 08-----

Quote:

Originally Posted by smooth

I specifically wrote:
how
why
and
after
where do you see in my post that I expected anyone to say anything about during the war?

In my view the Iraq war was when we invaded and removed Sadam and his military from power. Our occupation is what is happening now in Iraq. I interpreted your "after" to refer to the occupation. I do believe we are at war against terrorist groups, but I don't think we are at war with Iraq or its people. I stand corrected.

dc_dux · 12-02-2008, 01:01 PM

ace.....it doesnt matter that you or even Bush may may think that e-mails are irrelevant.

Its the law to preserve them!

smooth · 12-02-2008, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceventura3

This, in my view is a focus on the trivial. If Bush had 1,000 pages saying Sadam was a threat and Congress had 999 pages saying he was a threat, you can say he lied, but the real point is that Sadam was a threat and everyone interested had enough information to draw an informed conclusion.

except this isn't what happened.
that's why you're confused, you don't know the facts.
it's a reoccurring theme with you

Congress didn't have access to the pages because the administration claimed they were too sensitive for their consumption. therefore they didn't have enough information to draw an informed conclusion on, and voted their conscious which was that they would trust the administration's view of the evidence before them (the administration) rather than risk the threat being described to them (Congress).

the analogy is if I came to you and told you that I knew one of your employees was plotting to kill you. but if I let you see the evidence I had, it would compromise the safety of the operation that gave me the information. and you wanted to think about it and talk it over...but I told you that it's happening with or without you, this guy is going to kill you in the morning. you have to shut your business down today, right now.

you can either ignore me at your peril, or follow my advice and hope I'm not misrepresenting or misreading the evidence I am relaying to you.

aceventura3 · 12-02-2008, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_dux

ace.....it doesnt matter that you or even Bush may may think that e-mails are irrelevant.

Its the law to preserve them!

O.k., he broke the law, now what?
-----Added 2/12/2008 at 04 : 07 : 46-----

Quote:

Originally Posted by smooth

except this isn't what happened.
that's why you're confused, you don't know the facts.
it's a reoccurring theme with you

Try looking at the big picture to some of my points.

The big picture is we had the information we needed to conclude if Sadam was a threat or not and if we needed to use military force.

The big picture is Congress should not authorize a President to go to war, if they don't have the information they need to make an informed decision.

The big picture is when someone is "making a case" you assume they are "making a case".

dc_dux · 12-02-2008, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceventura3

O.k., he broke the law, now what?

Now what? 48 days and counting.

Thats about it.

But your cavalier attitude about law breaking is refreshing if not partisan.
-----Added 2/12/2008 at 04 : 24 : 15-----

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceventura3

To me it seems your interest seems to be pure voyeurism.

To give it historical perspective.

Historians spent hours and days, if not years, combing through letters exchanged between the delegates to the first Constitutional Convention in 1787 in order to gain a better understanding into the thought processes that went into crafting the Constitution that we govern by today.

History, in large part, is determined by the source documents of the day. Not just what happened, but why and how.

In 1787, it was personal letters....in the 21st century, it is e-mail

Voyeurism?

smooth · 12-02-2008, 01:43 PM

dc_dux,
try looking at the big picture...

the big picture is that there is a big picture

the big picture is that you are missing the big picture when you are missing the big picture

highthief · 12-03-2008, 02:43 PM

Hopefully, some one will step to the fore when the Shrub leaves office and will provide more material for poverty stricken comedy writers.

Just what the hell is John Stewart supposed to do now????

dc_dux · 12-03-2008, 03:20 PM

Coming to NYC in Feb 09....Will Ferrell is taking Bush to Broadway:

Quote:

A helicopter tether falls from the ceiling and an annoyed ex-president, George W. Bush, is lowered to the stage.

"I told them to take me someplace interesting. Someone suggested the Island of Manhattan," he says. "But I didn't realize that's just the Indian word for New York City."

With that, comedian Will Ferrell kicks off his two-hour monologue, "You're Welcome, America. A Final Night with George W. Bush."

FERRELL INAUGURATES B'WAY-BOUND BUSH BASH - New York Post

Locobot · 12-05-2008, 09:55 PM

28% seems outlandishly high, I think that's fallen lower since. What is this missing?

timalkin · 12-06-2008, 09:41 AM

dc_dux · 12-06-2008, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timalkin

Honestly, anyone who blames the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina on President Bush really needs to look at the facts of the situation. Don't believe everything that comes from a hip-hop artist's mouth.

A hip hop artist didnt hire the director of a horse association, with no experience in disaster response, to manage the nation's emergency preparedness and response agency.

timalkin · 12-06-2008, 01:59 PM

dc_dux · 12-06-2008, 02:03 PM

Yep...there was plenty of blame to go around.

But I didnt expect you to accept the fact that every post-incident review of the total response effort put a large part of the failure on FEMA..and the fact that the head of FEMA had absolutely NO experience that prepared him to handle a disaster of that magnitude.

Instead...you play the race card....again.

timalkin · 12-06-2008, 02:06 PM

dc_dux · 12-06-2008, 02:09 PM

I would encourage you to read the post-incident reviews and analysis of the preparedness and actions of all levels of government that were conducted by the GAO, Congress, FEMA, the state association of emergency response administrators, and others....instead of regurgitating right wing talking points.

YouTube - Heck of a job Brownie

Do you really think Brownie, with no experience in emergency preparedness and response, was qualified to be director of FEMA...or that he "did a heck of a job"? Objectively, I think most would call it a choice Bushism.

I really have no interest in making this thread about Katrina, but whats with you and blaming "hip hop" for everything?

timalkin · 12-06-2008, 06:15 PM

dc_dux · 12-06-2008, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timalkin

Regardless, who needs after-incident reviews or facts when you can just blame Bush for everything that happened? I mean, he *DID* blow up the levees in New Orleans to destroy the poor sections of New Orleans in order to save the wealthy sections of New Orleans.

He *DOES* hate black people afterall.

No one here blamed Bush for everything that happened. In fact, I said there was plenty of blame to go around.

I do blame Bush for appointing incompetent people with no qualifications to positions of responsibility. And the findings were overwhelming in every analysis that a more competent FEMA director would likely have resulted in a far better performance. Agencies perform at the direction and guidance of those at the top.

And please stop with the Bush DID blow up the levees and BUsh DOES hate black people.....no one suggested that and it only makes you look ignorant.

timalkin · 12-06-2008, 08:56 PM

dc_dux · 12-06-2008, 08:58 PM

Farrakhan is a hate-monger and doesnt represent me or anyone I know, so I dont see the point of your post....or what it has to do with Bush appointing an unqualified person to lead the nation's emergency preparedness and response agency...and then complimenting Brownie for doing "a heck of a (good) job" in light of the serious performance failures of the agency under his control and management.
-----Added 7/12/2008 at 12 : 05 : 06-----

Pat Robertson, another hate-monger, blamed Katrina on God's retribution for the gays in New Orleans and the decadence of the city...and that has nothing to do with the discussion either.

Locobot · 12-07-2008, 07:48 PM

The pictures above aren't all necessarily pointing blame at GWB, but these are all things that went on during his presidency. He has shirked responsibility for all the events pictured above and it's fairly obvious that collectively these scandals point to a egregious lack of leadership.

Quote:

Originally Posted by timalkin

Bush didn't elect a racist mayor of New Orleans who sat on his ass and tried to blame everyone but himself for the city's problems.

I'm sorry, but that is patently false. I have friends who stayed in New Orleans through the storm and for a week afterward. For several days Nagin was the ONLY leader to step up and coordinate rescue attempts. He gave nightly radio addresses (the TV studios having been evacuated) that gave people in the city hope. The cold fact of the situation is that the federal government sat on it's hands for days while Ray Nagin (and Sean Penn incidentally) were out in boats rescuing people. You are misinformed about these events, I recommend the Frontline episode "The Storm." You can watch the entire thing for free here.

12-02-2008, 10:17 AM	#2 (permalink)
aceventura3 Junkie Location: Ventura County	I am going to miss Bush. I have an affinity for people who are less than "perfect" and who have no pretense in their character. Even when Bush mis-spoke, you knew exactly what he meant, as opposed to some who put all the right words together but lack clarity. __________________ "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

12-02-2008, 12:20 PM	#7 (permalink)
smooth Junkie Location: Right here	well I hate to break this to you, aceventura, but the examples you cited were either truisms or tautologies. they make sense because they are true because the statement makes them true by the logic within the sentence. clarity is supposed to be how closely one's communication approximates the reasoning, or vision, underlying his or her expressions. that means when you say something, how well does it communicate what you're thinking about and why you're thinking the thing you are talking about when a president is making a case for war, given that's the quotes you're using for example here, then most people in a democratic country expect their leaders to explain why they are supposed to be going to war and [/ihow[/i] they are going to go to war...and more importantly for some, what happens after the war. it's not enough to simply leave things as important as war to truisms or tautologies because they don't allow for any kind of feedback loops...unless you don't think that the population should have much say in war propositions. and some people believe that, but I don't. __________________ "The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann "You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

12-02-2008, 12:20 PM	#8 (permalink)
dc_dux Location: Washington DC	Unfortunately, historians and the general public will probably never get a full and accurate accounting of the Bush presidency. The Presidential Records Act, enacted following the Nixon administration, requires the National Archive to catalog and retain White House records, which are officially owned by the public. That includes White House memos and other text-based records, photos, the president's daily calendar of activities, the Secret Service list of White House visitors and the White House's e-mail records. Since Clinton, and even more so with Bush, a vast amount of the records have been in the form of e-mails....no surprise there, it is a reflection of the shift to technology in all segments of society. However, soon after Bush entered office, the White House dismantled the Automated Records Management System that Clinton had implemented to archive e-mails and as a result, somewhere between 5 and 10 million e-mails have been deleted from White House servers.....many related to exchanges leading up to the invasion of Iraq, warrantless wiretaps of US citizens, the DOJ attorney firings, the outing of Valerie Plame.... ....coincidence? __________________ "The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 12-02-2008 at 12:26 PM..

12-02-2008, 12:40 PM	#12 (permalink)
dc_dux Location: Washington DC	ace....why am I not surprised by your defense of Bush.....others did it before Bush and we dont have the right to know. The same defensive argument (that you can never support with facts, btw) you throw out with every documented charge or allegation against Bush. __________________ "The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 12-02-2008 at 12:43 PM..

12-02-2008, 12:45 PM	#14 (permalink)
dc_dux Location: Washington DC	LOL......you're always entertaining ace....if not anywhere near close to basing your conclusions on facts. -----Added 2/12/2008 at 03 : 49 : 37----- So what if millions of WH emails leading up to the invasion of Iraq were (intentionally?) destroyed. __________________ "The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 12-02-2008 at 12:53 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

12-02-2008, 01:01 PM	#17 (permalink)
dc_dux Location: Washington DC	ace.....it doesnt matter that you or even Bush may may think that e-mails are irrelevant. Its the law to preserve them! __________________ "The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire

12-02-2008, 01:43 PM	#21 (permalink)
smooth Junkie Location: Right here	dc_dux, try looking at the big picture... the big picture is that there is a big picture the big picture is that you are missing the big picture when you are missing the big picture __________________ "The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann "You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

12-03-2008, 02:43 PM	#22 (permalink)
highthief Junkie Location: Ontario, Canada	Hopefully, some one will step to the fore when the Shrub leaves office and will provide more material for poverty stricken comedy writers. Just what the hell is John Stewart supposed to do now???? __________________ Si vis pacem parabellum.

12-05-2008, 09:55 PM	#24 (permalink)
Locobot is awesome!	28% seems outlandishly high, I think that's fallen lower since. What is this missing?

12-06-2008, 09:41 AM	#25 (permalink)
timalkin Addict Location: watching from the treeline	.. __________________ Trinity: "What do you need?" Neo: "Guns. Lots of guns." -The Matrix Last edited by timalkin; 12-20-2010 at 07:51 PM..

12-06-2008, 01:59 PM	#27 (permalink)
timalkin Addict Location: watching from the treeline	.. __________________ Trinity: "What do you need?" Neo: "Guns. Lots of guns." -The Matrix Last edited by timalkin; 12-20-2010 at 07:51 PM..

12-06-2008, 02:03 PM	#28 (permalink)
dc_dux Location: Washington DC	Yep...there was plenty of blame to go around. But I didnt expect you to accept the fact that every post-incident review of the total response effort put a large part of the failure on FEMA..and the fact that the head of FEMA had absolutely NO experience that prepared him to handle a disaster of that magnitude. Instead...you play the race card....again. __________________ "The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 12-06-2008 at 02:05 PM..

12-06-2008, 02:06 PM	#29 (permalink)
timalkin Addict Location: watching from the treeline	.. __________________ Trinity: "What do you need?" Neo: "Guns. Lots of guns." -The Matrix Last edited by timalkin; 12-20-2010 at 07:50 PM..

12-06-2008, 06:15 PM	#31 (permalink)
timalkin Addict Location: watching from the treeline	.. __________________ Trinity: "What do you need?" Neo: "Guns. Lots of guns." -The Matrix Last edited by timalkin; 12-20-2010 at 07:49 PM..

12-06-2008, 08:56 PM	#33 (permalink)
timalkin Addict Location: watching from the treeline	.. __________________ Trinity: "What do you need?" Neo: "Guns. Lots of guns." -The Matrix Last edited by timalkin; 12-20-2010 at 07:48 PM..

12-06-2008, 08:58 PM	#34 (permalink)
dc_dux Location: Washington DC	Farrakhan is a hate-monger and doesnt represent me or anyone I know, so I dont see the point of your post....or what it has to do with Bush appointing an unqualified person to lead the nation's emergency preparedness and response agency...and then complimenting Brownie for doing "a heck of a (good) job" in light of the serious performance failures of the agency under his control and management. -----Added 7/12/2008 at 12 : 05 : 06----- Pat Robertson, another hate-monger, blamed Katrina on God's retribution for the gays in New Orleans and the decadence of the city...and that has nothing to do with the discussion either. __________________ "The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 12-06-2008 at 09:51 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost