matthew330

This sentiment seems to be the overwhelming consensus here, but just doesn't jive with my own personal experience. It's been awhile since I've been out of the country, but recently took a trip to Toronto and here's how it went.

I sit down to have dinner in the hotel bar and get talking to a this Canadian who puts 2 and 2 together and realizes I'm America. I do my best to continue our pleasant non-political conversation, but it is definately being forced into the political realm. It goes from how bright his kids are and how well versed they are in American politics to how stupid American children are and the American school system, and the health care system, blah blah mother fucking blah. I really tried to indulge him for awhile and played the "stupid american" bit, hoping he'd drop it, but I finally gave in, humored him, and challenged him on a number of things. This left him a bit speechless but that's not my point....

It didn't matter that it was Canada, this same thing happened to a friend of mine on his honeymoon in Ireland (but he's way left so he was cool with it). When I was 10/11/12 years old I lived in Germany and felt this from adult Europeans. At 13 years old..WTF??

Americans hear an accent and are immediately "where you from, what's that like, welcome....etc etc" How is it that we are the arrogant ones?

Not only can foreigners come here and not be treated like this, I would bet they'd feel comfortable coming here and striking up a conversation about how shitty Americans are right here in the middle of America, because it happens all the time.

Who's arrogant?

Willravel

Human beings are often arrogant. Americans are rich enough to be arrogant on TV.

Arrogance can stem from insecurity. I can understand some Americans being insecure about certain aspects of the US, especially considering the level of patriotism that society seems to often expect of us.

matthew330

Yes, the pressure to be patriotic is overwhelming. Theres a chance the San Francisco dump may not be allowed to be named after the president. Where, oh where, can my outlet be?

Willravel

I'm being serious.

Charlatan

The perception of Americans as being arrogant doesn't have to reflect the reality on the ground. The perceptions come through the media via Hollywood and via the news media.

When your President says things such as, "You are either with us or you are against us" it adds greatly to this.

In the end, there is ignorance around the world and it shouldn't surprise you when you find it.

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hannukah harry

i think a lot of the idea of "american arrogance" comes from how our govt. acts towards the rest of the world and our tendency to shout "we're #1! we're #1! suck it, losers!" about things whether we are or not.

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jorgelito

Perceptions of American arrogance come from other countries' insecurities and further fueled by others. Just look at the posts on this board.

The best way to handle it is to be the best you can be and try to educate others. For example, I travel extensively around the world. Every time I'm abroad, I am on my very best behaviour because I am representing America. I have done my part in showing how good Americans are and how we arfe not the stereotype. Most of the time, it requires very little effort and a lot of patience. Simple things like common courtesies, following local customs, learning a few phrases in the local language, all go very far. Locals love it when they see you are interested in their culture and show respect. Most of the time, I get, "Oh I love Americans!". Once in a awhile I will get a lunatic that will never like Americans no matter what. I just shrug it off, it's their loss. It has worked for me in America-hating places like France, Egypt, the West Bank etc. In the end, they may hate you for being American, but they always love your money.

People are naturally curious and will ask "odd" questions but mostly not from malice.

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Sun Tzu

When a president completes a speech with the traditional "God Bless America" seems OK- if it is America being addressed. It is completely inappropriate to stand in front of the general assembly at the UN and conclude a speech that way. That is very arrogant IMO.

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highthief

America as a nation is arrogant, that's not even a point to debate - but I don't think the individual people are anymore arrogant than anyone else (except when they all get together at a sporting event and chant "USA! USA!" for hours on end for lack of anything more inventive to sing!)

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dlish

particularly if you have a myriad of faiths present. i'd agree.

is the opening poster talking about general joe blows' on the street or the american government?

there are arrogant people wherever you look really. plenty of arrogant aussies who think their shit doesnt stink the same way as americans.

ive met many chinese who think that their culture is superior to others and wouldnth ave it any other way.

it's arrogance coupled with self rightousness in my opinion. Thinking you are superior to another and being able to implement it...

...hang on im getting flashbacks of 1940's Germany.

take those arrogant people away from the sphere of influence and you've got yourself a perfectly normal person.

like cynths' signature says.. "you're either an asshole or you're not"

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highthief

Actually, what happens is the cops give you a ticket:

http://www.thestar.com/News/World/article/463496

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Tully Mars

My guess is that officer goes home every night a watches Lou Dobbs.

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roachboy

there's either alot to say about this or nothing to say, it's hard to know.

my general impression is based on living in paris for a few years, off an on.
Americans--that undifferentiated category used to refer to tourists in tourist places doing tourist things--tend grosso modo (heh) to be parochial.
the clearest index is that "we" typically only speak english.
the assumption that gets *read off* this simple fact is that "we" do not think other languages worth the trouble to learn. "we" don't learn because we don't have to--"we" aren't curious--"we" is a nation of george w. bushes.

parochial can figure as arrogant, then.

on the other hand, sticking with the paris experience, if you can speak french you can have a fantastic time--but it's curious thing that, when this sort of thing comes up in conversation, "Americans" comes to refer to a category that is just as much external to you as it is to the person you are hanging out with.

so it's mobile, a synonym for parochial rather than a descriptor for folk who happen to come from a particular geographical space.

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it make you sick.

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canuckguy

Oh my first politics post!!!

Well I am sorry my American friend this is something your going to have to work on in the future. Public relations.

Personally I don't think it matters what your country does, good or bad on the international stage your going to get battered by everyone. Comes with being the worlds police service unfortunately. A part of me is very happy my American neighbours invest so heavy in their guns because it indirect protects my ass on the world stage. But I also dislike how those guns are used sometimes, but hey like any relationship you take the good with the bad.

I don't think American's are arrogant. It is too hard to generalize everyone when your sample size is so small. I think you'll find that same level of "were better than you" attitude from most developed countries with educated people. The french think there better than the english and vise versa...etc



For me this is really simple, instead of trying to defend yourself against these views, i would seek to understand why this person feels this way. what events have they seen or heard that caused that view? learn why people feel that way can do alot towards understanding and growing for the better from both sides of the table.

And from that you can being to change policy and world views.


/i work for a Canadian company and 90% of my contact is with Americans. I don't find the people I deal with daily to be arrogant at all. In fact i find them to be humble and apologetic if discuss international issues..etc. Now if i watch your even news shows than i can see how the the reverse opinion can be formed with the wrong knowledge.

matthew330

Well, I think I came to understand why this person feels the way he did. Its because he didn't know any better. His kids may have been little genius ambassadors, however, the depth of his knowledge went no further than "Bush sucks" and "Americans are arrogant" and "its children are dumb because they can't speak other languages", because that's all he heard and it was never challenged. So I obliged him....yes politely and respectfully. Treated him with kid gloves.

Canuckguy, these Americans that you work with that are "humble and apologetic" need to be slapped. I might avoid the conversation in the first place, but if we met...no way in hell i'm being apologetic on behalf of America.

and Roachboy, how is only speaking one language a reflection of anything. Were geographically isolated from all the other languages. The necessity isn't there. And who cares that the French can speak English. The only thing they use it for is to belittle Americans who can't speak French.

Seriously...would they have more respect for me if I was in France and spoke Lithuanian? Is it really just that I only speak one language? No - they want me to know French. So France above all other languages should be integrated into the American curriculum? or I have to learn it to take a week trip over there, which I'd certainly brush up on..just to get made fun of how poor my efforts are.

Seaver

Let me start this by saying I speak 4 languages, some better than others.

The complaint with many people's posts are that we speak no other languages.

Which one do you want? Economically and politically we must speak ALL languages or we have failed in the eyes of the non-English speaking world. Are we not allowed to visit a place in the world without spending a decade studying the language? You don't think that's asking a bit much?

We are arrogant if we do not speak Chinese, but are curious enough to spend the money to go and experience their culture. We are arrogant if we travel to Paris in order to experience their (and possibly our own history), but do not spend 13 years studying the language beforehand.

The fact of the matter is we are linguistically isolated. It's VERY easy for the French to learn English, they can speak to English speakers any time, they can watch English TV, they watch our movies in English with French subtitles. They are completely surrounded by the language through their entire life, we get maximum 1 hour a day 3-5 days a week in order to learn. They are arrogant for expecting us to be on equal terms in language ability.

It's like showing a guy who's never seen a car before how to change the starter on an engine, then wait 10 years with not ever seeing a car again and expecting him to remember how to do it. We do not have access to the other languages as easily.

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mixedmedia

Actually, what I've always heard is that folks in Europe and such, especially in metroplitan areas, find Americans to be gauche and obnoxious. Which is not surprising because I find Americans to be gauche and obnoxious, too.

I hadn't heard the arrogant thing before. In fact, I'd always heard the opposite. Americans think that Europeans are arrogant - and it's most likely because they are reacting to what they see as gauche and obnoxious.

And I've seen plenty of Americans right here at the TFP saying what they don't like about one kind of tourist or another, so I really don't think we have a lot of room to whine about it.

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guyy

American schools can be bad, the health care system does indeed suck, but then again, nationalism and national identity have a negative component.
For example, anglophone Canada, for historical and geographical reasons, defines itself against America. Since the two countries -- or at least the anglophone parts of each -- share so much, the differences that are there tend to be played up. In Quebec it's not such an issue because they speak French -- and because they define themselves against anglophone Canadians & the French.

There are similar things going on between the UK and Ireland (and it's much nastier), NZ and Australia, every E. Asian nation and China, and in the Spanish speaking world.

The annoying thing about a lot of this is that it makes the political events into an issue of national identity. To go back to the Canadian example, Canadians don't have a good health care system because they are inherently wiser than Americans. They have one as the outcome of a political struggle which continues to this day. It's not too difficult imagining an America where FDR, Truman, or LBJ had pushed a national health scheme through, or a Canada where Tommy Douglas had lost.

Daniel_

The arrogance thing comes with the way the nation presents itself.

For example - in this country, we have had a Prevention of Terrorism Act for many years.

In your country you have a PATRIOT Act.

We have the Disability Discrimination Act.

You have the Americans With Disabilities Act.

At a sporting event, the english will sing "God Save The Queen" or "Jerusalem" - you chant "You Ess Ay" over and over again.

We know you're richer than the rest of us. We know you've a bigger military than the rest of us, but it really pisses the rest of the world off that your nation (which don't get me wrong has many many redeeming features and many great people in) as a whole seems to try to tell the rest of the world how to do stuff.

At least when my country tried to tell the rest of the world how to do stuff, we actually were running 1/4 of the planet.

__________________

╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

canuckguy

lol see now this is why some people think you are arrogant. But hey, at least you know your smarter and better than those people eh!!!

JumpinJesus

So, you're fine with people who come here and don't speak English, right?

__________________
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matthew330

of course - but I think know where your heading with this. It's totally different to come here to live, with no intention of learning the language, and expecting the culture accommodate your own indifference.

little_tippler

I agree with what Charlatan had to say about this.

As for my personal experience, with individual americans, I would not say arrogant.

I would say that americans come off as confident and assertive, and sometimes (on a more negative edge), loud and boisterous.

I have american friends and I get on well with them. I find that mostly they are quite curious about other cultures and are actually wary of being thought of as arrogant.

In Portugal particularly, people like foreigners and will go out of their way to be nice to them, mostly. We like to be welcoming to tourists generally and are curious also about meeting people from other parts of the world.

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

The Nightfly

I agree to a point. The USA's 'perceived persona' is one of nauseating patriotism, condescension and insularity. This is down to a great many things including presidential speeches, foreign policy, and naming a national football contest 'the world series'.

However, anybody from the rest of the world who is naive enough to think this stereotype is true for every American citizen is just as ignorant as the stereotype they so dislike.

As for not speaking other languages, it pisses me off when British emigrate to Spain and don't bother to learn a word of Spanish, live in a community of purely other British people, open 'fish and chip' shops so it's like they never actually left Britain, then have the nerve to complain that there's 'too many foreigners' in Britain and they've ruined its national identity. At the same time it pisses me off when people come to England and do not bother to learn English or integrate with the people already living here. I have a friend who's parents immigrated from Pakistan about 30 years ago, and her mother can still only speak a few words of English and takes a very dim view of traditional western/white culture.

I think if you are visiting a country, it's only good manners to learn a bit about local culture, customs and language. After all, isn't that what makes visiting other countries fun?

You get dick heads in every walk of life, in every country, every race and every religion. That's people for you.

ipollux

The irony is that it's typically the most uneducated Americans that are so patriotic and arrogant. Perhaps that's because they're not smart enough to realize all the reasons why they shouldn't be.

I'm an American, but I consider us a terrorist nation under the Bush regime. If China or Russia invaded a country unjustly and threatened to do the same to other countries, they'd be considered terrorist nations, yes? Fair enough.

The_Jazz

Actually no, they wouldn't be considered terrorist nations. There's a very strict definition of "terrorist nation", and invasion of another country doesn't qualify. A "terrorist nation" uses state funds and resources to enable individuals or small groups to attack enemy resources and citizens. That's why Israel doesn't qualify as a terrorist nation (they use their military to fight terrorists) and Columbia does (they fund right-wing paramilitary groups to fight the FARC).

To answer the OP, I'm an American and it really is a situational issue. It depends on where I am, what I'm wearing and who I'm talking to. If I'm in Paris wearing shorts, a golf shirt and a floppy hat with a camera around my neck, people may make assumptions. If I'm hanging out on a train between Ekaterinaburg and Irkuskt and buying beers and vodka while hosting a party in my room, the response is going to be much different and people will actually ASK me what I think rather than assuming.

The inverse of this is host's "Canadians and other visitors: why don't you tip properly?" thread (I don't feel like looking it up, so the title might be different). He assumed that foreigners don't tip will - and a lot of them don't - but there are lots of cases where he's wrong to make any assumptions. And if that's the one thing life has taught me thus far - don't make assumptions about people; you'll almost always be wrong.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Poppinjay

Actually, that would be the Superbowl. And when the World Series received its name, all of the world's baseball teams were in America.

What about planet Earth so callously calling a beauty pageant Miss Universe? Shame on Gaia!

I think perceptions on both sides of the tourist are a little skewed. Most Americans who travel to France go to Paris. Some may venture to wine producing regions, or Lyon for the food, but most get a big city experience. Big cities tend to be filled with rude people, brought on by years of traffic jams, crowded sidewalks, long waits in line, crime. Tourists who stick out in DC get pretty much the same treatment.

On the other hand, there are those tourists who want to have a great adventure overseas, and then book a comprehensive trip where all their meals are provided, english is spoken, they're on a bus with a bunch of other Americans most of the time, and their schedule is pre-determined. I tend to believe agencies who put together those trips intend to provide as homogenous adventure as possible.

As far as not apologizing for America, our president may wear his ass as a hat, but Nicolas Negroponte - an American whose parents immgrated from Greece - brought the One Laptop Per Child mission to fruition.

And was sued by Nigeria for his efforts. Nigerians are the real assholes of the world.

__________________
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Leto

Boosterish patriotism is annoying and can/is perceived to be arrogant. I have worked with Americans on a regular basis in the consulting field for over 20 yrs and have never had to deal with individual arrogance beyond personality differences which are no different than the Europeans or other Canadians that I have worked with.

You, Matthew are arrogant in suggesting that your country men should be slapped about for their stance. That, my friend, stinks of McCarthyism and is the antithesis of what we all admire the USA for in the first place. In fact the boosterish nationalism recently displayed by Chinese nationals (when confronted about the Tibet issue in the past few months) is just as cloyingly arrogant and should be self examined.

I for one am appalled at the arrogance of that Torontonian that you were subjected to over dinner. The crap coming out of his mouth is nothing but hubris, and should have been checked at the door.

abaya

Interesting. Since when did we geographically disconnect from both Mexico and Canada (Quebec)?

Being monolingual is a reflection of cultural isolation. It doesn't make you an asshole if you only speak English, but if you insist that English is the only language necessary for functioning in a global arena and that you simply don't need to learn anyone else's language (as long as they learn yours), then yes, you have become both an idiot and an asshole, in my opinion. Not saying that you said that, but plenty of Americans do believe that, whether implicitly or not.

There is also nothing wrong with living as a "humble" American. This country has perpetuated a shitload of wrongs on the rest of the world, and I'm talking about the last 100+ years, not just the last 5. If the US wants to regain its global "moral superiority" (if that ever existed), it could do worse than to cultivate a more accurate reality regarding its history in the world, and exactly how much damage its actions have incurred, and to quit having such a grandiose sense of entitlement.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

The_Jazz

I predict you will make a fortune with your method of instantly producing fluency in English with a simple press of a button.

My wife's grandmother only speaks Ukrainian. She tried to learn English but could never master it. Apparently, she can speak a few words, but not really enough to get by on. She came here after getting out of Dachau. I'll make sure to pass along your sentiments.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

matthew330

and there's a bit of unnecessary drama!

If she's happy here, she gets by on what she can then great, I don't have a problem with that either. Feel free to pass that along to her in your own Shakespearian way.

The_Jazz

Well, which is it, Matthew330? Here's someone who came here and expected the culture to bend to her. You already said you have a problem with that. Now you say you don't. Which is it?

Drama? Hardly. At least I'm consistent. You're going to have a very hard time saying the same.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

matthew330

abaya, not being a world traveler English is the only language necessary for functioning in Kansas, or Utah, or Michigan, or, or, or, or.. .you get my drift. Interestingly enough, in a place like northern Virginia, you almost have to know Spanish. And I am geographically disconnected fromboth Quebec AND mexico, so I really don't know what you want. When being confronted in the manner I was, and friends have been when travelling abroad - I, as an American, am clearly not the one with a "moral superiority". So I'm only going to sit there for so long listening to that horseshit for so long. The thought of "some people" finding themselves in the same situation and feeding into that mentality, as misguided as it is, sickens me. It took all of 3 minutes of me challenging him before this dude was like "oh, uhh...let's change the subject".

No if you have a political point, offer a discussion, and I'm clearly receptive and you've got more to offer than what this jerkoff did.....then that's just great.

And Daniel and the Nightfly, that sounds so childish and pathetic. You get angry because people yell USA (and can't even bring yourself to type it) at a sports arena occasionally. I just can't help you. Continue your angry, pissed off lives.

I'm consistent. Nope - not hard at all.

thespian86

Ready.

Manifest Destiny, The Turner/Frontier Thesis, Freedom Fries, Patriot Toast, Gitmo, Iraq, Fox News, 23 months of presidential posturing, CNN, foreign affairs and policy, Cuba, driving two states into the US and having people say "New Brunswick? All the way from Jersey?", oil, U-S-A, sporting events, your military, your media, your culture, "is he a mexican?", "man it must be cold up there (in july)", etc.

Your nation tends to put itself at the forefront for everything, and then expects when things go bad, for people to look aside. It's a lack of political accountability, and at least a little, if not a lot, arrogance to make this possible. And even though it isn't (or shouldn't be), it's become an international joke. It doesn't make you or the individuals of your country that; not even close. But the way you allow yourselves to be presented is all we see. And because of that, that's why we're here. That's how I feel.

You are completely proving the point that your opposition is making with your first couple sentences. "I live in Kansas so why the hell do I need to understand you". Arrogant.

Sorry but that pisses me off.

What's even worse is you continue to say "I'm receptive" and follow with "that's dumb though, so fuck you." That's not diplomacy, that's fucking ignorant. Consider, perhaps, that people feel that American's are ignorant because you feel you must be the authority on all that is, as well as continuing to feel that you constantly hold the moral high ground. Consult my first two points in my list. They agree with me.

__________________
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ME: I officially love coffee more then you now.
EX: uh...
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Daniel_

I'm sorry - this seems stunningly parochial. You are geographically disconnected from two interesting foreign countries that you can drive to in a car? Can anyone explain this?

I consider myself to be part of the same geographical continuity as Iceland in the North West, Spain in the South West, Greece and Turkey in the South East, Finland and Russia in the North East. I am European - we have over 2 dozen countries, nearly as many languages and I have to cross the sea to get to almost all of it.

As for getting angry - I'm not angry - I typed it out phonetically to emphasise the fact that after a while it just becomes so much noise - there's no patriotism (to the external observer) it's verging on fervent cultish behaviour.

I like "Who's Line is it Anyway" - it's a great British TV show, based on an old Radio show. There's a round where they pick names from a hat. In the British version, they use a nondescript brown or black hat (a trilby I think in some episodes).

When the show was sold to the States, they use a hat that has been stolen from an Uncle Sam recruiting poster.

Your President wears his flag on his lapel, like he's frightened he'll forget where he's president of.

Your country refuses to take part in international arrangements to set up a war crimes court, and then wonders why nobody else on earth approves of the Gitmo war crimes trials.

This goes on and on and on.

Please don't accuse me of anger - I feel sadness. America is a great country. Some of the people I care most about are American. I love American culture, i read American books, watch American shows, watch American movies, listen to American music.

I don't get American sports, and wonder why you can't see how much better F1 is compared to Indy racing, but that's not anger.

What I see in America is what I see in reading history about the British Empire of the 1920's. You have the facility to control so many things in the world and influence them for good, but you're living high on the hog, and not realising that the people you think should love you actually want what you've got and will take it from you.

I don't want to see the US got through the pain that the UK did after WWII, but I fear it's coming in a generation.

__________________

╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

matthew330

What the fuck is Patriot Toast? What fucking newspaper do you read where you hear shit like this that I haven't even heard? Settle down with that. THAT is xenophobic.

" You are geographically disconnected from two interesting foreign countries that you can drive to in a car? Can anyone explain this?"
..and..

"You are completely proving the point that your opposition is making with your first couple sentences. "I live in Kansas so why the hell do I need to understand you". Arrogant."

As a European, in one day, you can drive a car through probably 4 different countries speaking 4 different languages. Punkrock Person and Daniel, it stands to reason that Europeans would know more than one language. You are putting yourselves on a moral high ground, by suggesting that a farmer in Kansas should learn French or Mexican because he is within a 4 day drive of Mexico and Canada. Though he'll probably NEVER go there. And it's also dishonest of you to suggest that if more English people speak speak German or Dutch, it's because they have this intellectual curiosity about cultures other than there own.

As an FYI, your not allowed to call something" the Sea", if you can cross by train.

The_Jazz

Spanish, genius. The language of Mexico is Spanish. Not Mexican. Spanish.

The term "jingoistic" seems to apply to you. Look it up. Your native language is English, so you should look it up in an English dictionary. Not an American one. It won't do you any good to look for an American one.

I grew up near a bunch of Cherokee. They've all been here a lot longer than my family. Shouldn't I have learned their language?

Kansas is a 2 day drive from Mexico and a 2 day drive from Canada, unless you drive reaaaaaaally slow.

I'm sorely tempted to show you some American-on-American arrogance, but I can't do that and still remain professional, as much as I'm tempted.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

abaya

Quite the irony you've got going in these couple of sentences, particularly with your employment of the word "horseshit." Yeah, I can't either. Not in the mood to be wasting time on a discussion that will clearly go nowhere.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

thespian86

I'm Canadian, not European, and my country is the second largest land mass. No excuses from me. It takes me days to get to Kansas. I've been there. Ever been to the east coast of Canada? It's amazing.

Here's the thing Matty Matterson (isn't that condescending?) your posts ooze exactly what you are trying to disprove. Even worse, since you've been an active member since 2003, I figured that you would have a handle on how this place runs. It's not a place for standing your ground in the face of opposition, but rather learning things about others and how they live their lives. It's about educating yourself and other's, not just the latter. So here is where we find our problem dude.

Your argument is that American's are not ignorant, but you continually refuse to refute all of the points, and then choose some that work within your own vein of chosen subject. Your excuse is exactly, again, what your saying isn't part of American culture. You say "we are welcoming" but follow with "why the hell would I need to know that you moral high horses".

Here's the thing. Our moral high horse is a standard you, yourself, claimed to be on as well, which is one of an open mind; open to the possibility that we don't know the best. That we aren't the authority on what is and isn't. Kansas or not I come from one of the smallest, and poorest provinces in Canada. I come from a Capital City that has less then 70,000 people. A common way to make money is to work in the trades, to farm, or to work in lumber/forestry. Also we are the only officially bi-lingual province, a hub for culture, a center of Canadian pride and beauty, and most certainly not ignorant.

You see the difference between you and me is I am ashamed when I don't know something about anything. You feel justified. That is arrogance.

__________________
EX: Whats new?
ME: I officially love coffee more then you now.
EX: uh...
ME: So, not much.

matthew330

Then why'd you bother posting at all? oh right, cause you found a cute way of calling me an idiot AND an asshole, without REALLY calling me and idiot and an asshole. And the Jazz, thanks for your professionalism, I learned something today - Mexican's speak Spanish, and Americans speak English. Cool!

Punk Rock ...hold on....musicfan21. You'll notice I haven't said one derogatory thing about Canada, or England, or anyplace else. Your disgust with Americans is justified through this freedom fry/patriot toast/sports chants thing. Sorry for not taking them one by one. Your larger point was reacting to something I said that you completely misunderstood. I had one single solitary point that you managed not to address....so please, I don't think your trying to understand.