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10-14-2007, 05:45 PM | #1 (permalink) | |||||
Banned
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If an American Soldier asks, "What Are We Fighting For", How Would You Answer?
I read this...and it struck me how far gone O'Reilly and supporters of Bush's security policies and "Global War on Terror" really are.....
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We civilians with occasional exceptions like Cindy Sheehan....won't even get up off our couches and out in to the streets to voice our objections to the illegality and deliberate deceit described in the following quote boxes: Quote:
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10-14-2007, 05:46 PM | #2 (permalink) |
I Confess a Shiver
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SGT Crompsin says:
"I fight for the guy to my left and my right... the only other humans who know how it feels to do the dumb shit that we do." When you get on the ground? The world back home doesn't matter. Nothing matters. Your wife, your kids, your house, your "other" life? Doesn't matter. You only think about keeping your guys revved up, how much ammo and water you have left, and if your POS radio is going to crap out on you or not. Last edited by Plan9; 10-14-2007 at 05:48 PM.. |
10-14-2007, 05:51 PM | #3 (permalink) |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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Soldiers are fighting for a lot of their own perceived reasons, but they are mainly the private fighting force of the super rich. It's a shame because as someone who knows more than a few soldiers, they are very brave and believe that they're doing the right thing. Their heart is in the right place, and they've had all the history lessons on WWII, the last real war, and they're confused, no unlike I'd imagine those who fought in Vietnam were.
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10-14-2007, 06:12 PM | #5 (permalink) | |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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I recognize that you fought with people and you wanted you and your buddies to stay alive, but the reason you were in the desert wasn't originally to help your fellow soldiers. |
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10-14-2007, 06:16 PM | #6 (permalink) | |
I Confess a Shiver
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The between-the-lines message:
Big difference between orders and fighting. I got op-ords for all sorts of stupid shit. Never once involved an order to engage anybody. The GWOT is a misnomer. This isn't a war. Like you said... WWII was the last real war. Quote:
The "reason" I was in the desert? Carry out officer plans, not kill people. Last edited by Plan9; 10-14-2007 at 06:21 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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10-14-2007, 06:47 PM | #7 (permalink) |
peekaboo
Location: on the back, bitch
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People join the military for any number of reasons: patriotism, career or education opportunities, sense of duty, legacy(dad, grandad, uncle were military)....
Once in, one is not given much choice as to where to go-you're military property, 24/7. You're paid to do a job, you do it. In the past year, I have attended at least 10 funerals for KIA. Whether they believed they were where they were for a 'good purpose' is irrelevant. Their mothers lost a child, wives lost a husband, babies lost a parent. Now my nephew will be landing in the sandbox probably in January; my friend's son is there now. It doesn't matter why. It's their job. We wish it wasn't, so we post dumb questions like this.... I prefer to just say "Thank You". |
10-14-2007, 07:16 PM | #8 (permalink) |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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What does your son tell you host?
If I recall he was in the service.
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
10-14-2007, 07:45 PM | #9 (permalink) | ||||||||||
Banned
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In the second quote box from the bottom, an excerpt from a current article: Quote:
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Now, instead of requiring large banks, hedge funds that only the rich may invest in....per acts of congress.....to SELL, or mark-to-market, financial investments backed by pools of mortgage loans or pools of other loans...securitized into bonds and sold by the banks and brokerages to other banks, hedge funds, mutual funds, pension funds, and to other investors..<h3>....at current market prices....</h3>...i.e. sell at the "going rate"....the rate that you or I would have to sell for...on any given day, when we decided, or needed to sell a financial asset, these government agencies have been convinced by the wealthiest investors and our biggest banks, to let them borrow agains these bonds and MBS at artifically high prices, and to risk the solvency of the banks themselves by the Fed allowing them to lend more of the bank's reserves to the banks' brokerage affiliates, than regulations designed to protect the deposits of the public, allow ! <h3>Ironically, if government agencies had not interfered by propping up wealthy investors losing investments, the stock market indexes would be lower and more stable, and the mortgaged backed securities could have been sold at much higher prices than the current REAL market prices are, now. THE POINT???? The Fed and US Treadury are supporting (LEADING??) a scheme to spread the risks and the losses that only the big banks and wealthy investors were holding, earlier this year....onto ALL OF US!!!</h3> The decline in housing valuations has only just begun....in the last decline, it took new housing starts, 17 years to regain the old peak annual rate. It helps no prospective home buyer or current home owner in financial distress to buy or to keep a residential property, with a loan obliglation in an amount at or near current prices....since those prices will almost certainly fall, dramatically....yet....that is just what the POTUS, the Fed, and most in congress are trying to do.... All of this serves to raise the costs of those of us with modest assets, to the gain of those who made huge profits securitizing mortgage debt and lending money to unqualified applicants to provide ever more liquidity to drive up housing prices and the profit streams of banks, brokers, lenders, builders, realtors, and fortune 500 corporations....<h3>If they are successful, they will collude to keep the valuations of stocks, residential properties, and loans securitized into bonds, high enough for them to transfer ownership of all of this artificially tweaked crap, from THEM to the rest of us.....</h3> <h2>This is the game that they elite play...and it is not worth fighting for!</h2> But it is worth thinking about...writing about....protesting about...exposing...sabotaging.....ENDING !!!!!!!!!!! Quote:
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...<h3>...and back in the "real world":</h3> Quote:
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Last edited by host; 10-14-2007 at 07:49 PM.. |
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10-14-2007, 07:48 PM | #10 (permalink) |
Playing With Fire
Location: Disaster Area
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I wish I could give a longer response host, but my eyes are beginning to fail me after reading all day. I do agree, most Americans feel pretty much safe & secure in their day to day lives, even after 9/11 and a million 'terror alerts'......They're really not ready to do any of the hard work, sacrifice their time & money, possibly endanger their job, get out and make a real difference. They're content to wait for the next election & let their voice be heard then.....
Meanwhile more of our brave soldiers die, billions are poured into a war for oil in which the rich will only get richer, paid for with our tax dollars..... I of course think that bush should have been impeached long ago, for various crimes.....take your pick. I have some pretty radical views when it comes to such things, way beyond liberal, all the way to.......better not say. The men in black (see pic above & below) will be at my door in seconds......
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Syriana...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer... Last edited by DaveOrion; 10-14-2007 at 08:24 PM.. |
10-14-2007, 08:17 PM | #12 (permalink) |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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Oh this is a spam thread, never mind.
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
10-14-2007, 08:47 PM | #14 (permalink) |
I Confess a Shiver
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Einstein says:
"Actually, SPAM luncheon meat is a canned precooked meat product made by the Hormel Foods Corporation. The labeled ingredients in the Classic variety of Spam are: chopped pork shoulder meat with ham meat added, salt, water, sugar, and sodium nitrite to help "keep its color". The product has become part of many jokes and urban legends about mystery meat, which has made it part of pop culture and folklore." |
10-14-2007, 08:49 PM | #15 (permalink) | ||||||
Banned
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...and I've reduced my points and my "evidence", to a brevity that you and ngdawg can surely negotiate....if you are willing: Quote:
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themselves that their admission to the ranks of the elite is just around the corner, where the rules/challenges that apply to the rest of us...will soon not apply to them....once they attain admission..... ...and I never imgained living in a country where a TV commentator would broadcast with certainty, that a candidate who is against violating US Senate ratified Geneva convention defined crimes against humanity, conventional military and civilian court rules for criminal trials, fourth amendment constitutional rights protections, and the petty "baiting" of internal security apparatus of a foreign country....is unsuitable to be president of the US....but here we are..... . |
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10-15-2007, 09:55 AM | #18 (permalink) |
Banned
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Fourteen posts now...besides my three..and no one has posted a description of what, in the US transformed by the decisions of the political majority, between 2001 and 2007..is worth the efforts of our soldiers to preserve or maintain..... I wonder whether most US soldiers would choose to fight to preserve the ideals of John Edwards...or of Bill O'Reilly?
Many enlisted in the military in the year following 9/11...before the invasion of Iraq. I understand that, once deployed, soldiers fight for the guys on either side of them....but what ideals would motivate someone to enlist in the US military, today? If you were a military recruiter, aside from benefits, how would you persuade a young person to sign up? |
10-15-2007, 10:10 AM | #19 (permalink) |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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Obviously none of the horrible political and military decisions between 2001 and now are worth the efforts of the troops. Their job is to protect this country, something honorable and laudable, not to be the private army of the rich and powerful to their own selfish and ultimately destructive ends.
Had I been born in the 1920s, I would have volunteered for WWII in a heartbeat. This mess in 2007? I beg people not to sign up. |
10-20-2007, 05:31 PM | #21 (permalink) | |
Thank You Jesus
Location: Twilight Zone
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kill dem houses and those dam mortgage brokers that put deadbeats in them. And my answer to those soldiers would be, you signed the motherfuckin contract now kill who your told.
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Where is Darwin when ya need him? |
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10-26-2007, 06:14 AM | #22 (permalink) |
Upright
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
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Erm... Who says this fighting is about ideals ?
Its about survival. For the soldier in the field its his immediate survival. For the country at large its the prevention of mass-destruction by zealots. Principles and ideals don't enter into it - its the lefty-strawman 'how can you defend fighting for such fluffy nonsense as Freedoms ?' Well when its freedom from death and freedom from persecution under a caliphate its not so fluffy no more. |
10-26-2007, 09:56 AM | #23 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: In the land of ice and snow.
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The war for freedom from death has actually made death more likely, since, you know, it's been a great recruitment tool for your caliphalating bogeymen. The war in iraq has nothing to do with survival. The only way the terrorists(who had nothing to do with iraq before we got there) could destroy america would be to trick us into believing that we need to destroy it ourselves. |
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10-26-2007, 10:21 AM | #24 (permalink) |
Eccentric insomniac
Location: North Carolina
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Whether we should have gone to war in the first place is immatterial, what matters is what we are doing now. We are currently trying to rebuild two broken countries who have a violent insurgency brewing. Other outside countries are leading their own unconventional warfare campaigns against the budding governments in Iraq and Afghanistan (and by extension, the US) and are not meeting entirely with failure. They are not doing this because they have Iraq or Afghanistans 'best interests' at heart.
I strongly object to warrantless wiretaps within our borders. Outside, anything goes.
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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill "All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence Last edited by Slims; 12-02-2008 at 10:13 PM.. |
10-27-2007, 01:19 PM | #26 (permalink) |
Browncoat
Location: California
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What are they fighting for? If you're talking about the war in Iraq, my answer would be: "Israel, of course!"
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"I am certain that nothing has done so much to destroy the safeguards of individual freedom as the striving after this mirage of social justice." - Friedrich Hayek |
10-28-2007, 05:32 AM | #27 (permalink) |
Eccentric insomniac
Location: North Carolina
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I'm sorry, but I don't see how pissing off the whole arab world even more helps Israels cause any.
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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill "All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence |
10-28-2007, 09:16 AM | #28 (permalink) | |
Browncoat
Location: California
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"I am certain that nothing has done so much to destroy the safeguards of individual freedom as the striving after this mirage of social justice." - Friedrich Hayek |
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10-28-2007, 03:08 PM | #29 (permalink) | ||
Crazy
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Check it Out
The roadmap to Middle East peace
I found this article entertaining and informative. No, America can't rely on Israel to solve the problems of the Middle East, Israel is already a huge part of the problem! It is SAUDI ARABIA - NOT IRAN - that needs to be dealt with...and pronto! Quote:
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10-28-2007, 07:55 PM | #30 (permalink) |
Eccentric insomniac
Location: North Carolina
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"Democratic" governments in the middle east are probably going to be worse for israel than the dictators.
The public sentiment towards israel is pretty bad. Give a country a democracy and the government will do what the people want. The notion that a 'democratic' government in the middle east would not be hostile towards Israel is foolish. And while Iraq is in the middle east. Afghanistan is not, and really hasn't had anything to do with Israel. Also, a democracy is far more likely to produce a competent army (i.e. that could successfully invade Israel) than an oppressive regime like Saddam's (Since he had a bad habit of killing off competent people and anyone who disagreed or brought bad news). Oh, and Skutch: Did you actually read that article before you posted it? The situation is a little more complex than that. How many times in history has a religion been successfully wiped out? Even if we wanted to take that course of action our ability to implement would be nonexistent. He makes a good emotional argument, but that is all it is. But maybe we should give it a shot. Afterall, it worked for the Romans against christianity, the Catholic Church against Protestantism, the Chinese against Tibetan Buddhism, Europe during the crusades (how many times have we tried already?), etc. If you try to puppet a religion every single practicing member (even the ones who weren't previously out to get us) is going to rebell in the worst possible way. How would you respond if somone executed your local preacher and told you to listen to some other guy instead? That's a real smart way to handle the worlds largest religion.
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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill "All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence Last edited by Slims; 10-28-2007 at 08:06 PM.. |
10-28-2007, 10:13 PM | #31 (permalink) |
I Confess a Shiver
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Lower enlisted guy question is:
"Hey, Sarge... why the fuck is our dick in the middle east so deep?" NCO answer: "Fuck if I know, son. Keep your weapon clean." Officer (O4 and up) answer: (extensive quotes / political far-future crap used above) |
11-03-2007, 06:28 PM | #32 (permalink) |
Minion of the scaléd ones
Location: Northeast Jesusland
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Host:
What about America in 2007 is worth fighting for? A military that stays out of the political process.
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Light a man a fire, and he will be warm while it burns. Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life. |
11-04-2007, 08:29 AM | #33 (permalink) |
Eccentric insomniac
Location: North Carolina
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Edit: No longer relevant.
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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill "All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence Last edited by Slims; 12-02-2008 at 10:14 PM.. Reason: removed picture of kids |
01-13-2008, 12:34 AM | #34 (permalink) | |||
Banned
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Remember what happened at FEMA,and at the CIA, and at the DOJ? Here is a spotlight on the FBI:
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Surely they are not fighting for "the right" to come home to live the rest of their lives in a "police state", are they? Wouldn't they want to know that the FBI promotes the most qualified agents to lead the bureau in fighting "the war of terrorism"? Quote:
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Last edited by host; 01-13-2008 at 12:49 AM.. |
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01-13-2008, 09:18 AM | #35 (permalink) |
Eccentric insomniac
Location: North Carolina
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Host:
So basically you are saying that because the FBI discriminated against someone our soldiers are fighting for the right to live in a police state? I'm sorry, but I don't see how that article is even remotely relevant to this dead thread. Also, everything in those articles (that I noticed anyways) was coming from the mouth of a single disgruntled employee. As far as trustworthiness, this Yusef guy has spilled the beans on as much information as he thinks he can get away with. Why should an organization entrust someone such as him to a key position? Just because he doesn't like how business is conducted doesn't mean he as an individual should go telling everyone. Also, how is it relevant that FBI officials had "limited" experience before taking a job. Of course it's limited, unless you are or have been an extremist, the only experience you can get is limited. It was also indicated in the article that DUE TO YUSEF"S DISCLOSURES to the director, he was passed over for the anti terrorism job. If the guy has some skeletons in his closet, why shouldn't they pass him over? Organizations need dirty people for low level work where the damage they can do is limited and their knowledge and experience in how the criminal element operates can be used, but they are a liability at the higher levels. They didn't fire him, just didn't let him on the anti-terrorism team. I honestly believe that the Democrats will win the next election, but I don't see how they would do anything except further erode our personal freedoms.
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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill "All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence |
01-14-2008, 04:11 AM | #36 (permalink) | |
Conspiracy Realist
Location: The Event Horizon
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I second that except the Navy- an unexpectedly ended up with the Marines as a corpsman. Now that Im out I truly miss being in a environment where everyone around me is striving to be the best they can be. Sounds cliche-- but I really would rather be an hour early than a second late, I give 100% to every professional endeavor I perform, and I'm seen as being weird or a kiss ass, or making everyone else look bad. Espirit de Corps is not known in the civilian sector and its something I have had to learn to deal with and accept. The US had it during WWII, but I dont know if its technology or Walmart something has happend-- now a person works just hard enougn not to get fired and is paid just enough so they dont quit.. I love the military, Im proud to have served, and glad we have an outstanding force, but when asked the question of the OP, I dont know how to answer in the way George has put my beliefs so well.. <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9KVTfcAyYGg&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9KVTfcAyYGg&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
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To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking Last edited by Sun Tzu; 01-14-2008 at 04:14 AM.. |
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01-19-2008, 05:30 AM | #37 (permalink) | |
Living in a Warmer Insanity
Super Moderator
Location: Yucatan, Mexico
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Absolutely! George has a long history of knocking one's out of the park. Watching his clip reminded me of a piece on Olbermann last night. He ended "Countdown" with a spoof on Halliburton. Wish I could find a link. It was hilarious last night. This morning I can't figure out if it's funny or so spot on it's merely depressing.
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I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club |
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american, answer, asks, fighting, for, soldier |
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