03-04-2007, 06:25 PM | #1 (permalink) | |
Apocalypse Nerd
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Prosecutors getting fired and replaced with Bush Brown-nosers
The title says it all. Federal level prosecutors are being fired for no reason given. These men and women have years of experience. The administration will pick the new prosecutors.
It's a "mystery" why they are firing these prosecutors but my guess is that they are preemptively eliminating any future "independant prosecutor" that might objectively look at the Cheney-Bush whitehouse. Others might speculate that the Administration is still trying to find jobs for friends who are somewhat unqualified to work for FEMA. This national news article offers speculation from the prosecutors themselves. Quote:
So why do YOU think they are firing these prosecutors? |
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03-04-2007, 06:34 PM | #2 (permalink) |
Addict
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two characters
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The peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error. ~John Stuart Mill, On Liberty Last edited by politicophile; 02-09-2008 at 08:32 PM.. |
03-04-2007, 07:24 PM | #3 (permalink) | |||||||||||
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http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/cats/us_attorneys/ ....and I started posting about it here: 49 days ago..... http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...am#post2182097 Quote:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200702200006 I challenge anyone to find anything inaccurate reported about this mess from the links and the material I've posted.... If you do feel the need to escape to more pleasing reporting....try the account of White House "Gunga Din", John Soloman from two days ago. I call him that because when I read his "reporting", I can't ell if he is employed by the Wapo or the RNC: Quote:
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03-04-2007, 09:21 PM | #4 (permalink) |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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Just a quick paranoid question.... ummmmm who would prosecute the officials in charge, if Bush decides to call Martial law and dismiss Congress or not have the '08 vote?
If you had federal prosecuters that were honest, they may actually find ways to enforce and prosecute the laws. Plus, who's going to prosecute say Halliburton for war profiteering? Just one example. Things like this are very scary and the sad thing of it is, people still support this man. What does he have to do, to get even his staunchest supporters to say enough? Or are they so wrapped up in the BS and trying to save face they can't admit anything wrong because it will tear down their house of cards and lies?
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" |
03-04-2007, 09:49 PM | #5 (permalink) | |||
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03-04-2007, 11:55 PM | #6 (permalink) | |||||||
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03-05-2007, 09:00 PM | #7 (permalink) |
Location: Washington DC
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Perhaps we will learn more tomorrow (Tues). Four of the fired (resigned under pressure?) US attorneys are appearing voluntarily before the Senate Judiciary Committee in the morning and the same four and two others have been subpoened to appear before a House Judiciary Subcommittee in the afternoon.
The obvious next step of the Congressional investigation will be a request for AG Gonzales to appear .and if he chooses to decline, whether the House and/or Senate will subpeona him....particularly in light of more allegations. Or to call in Michael Battle, the Justice Department official who oversaw the U.S. attorney's offices ...to explain his own sudden resignation.
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 03-06-2007 at 06:12 AM.. |
03-09-2007, 01:03 PM | #8 (permalink) | |
Adequate
Location: In my angry-dome.
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I'm sure many of you are already following this:
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So what happened between Tuesday and today? Will this go further, or is it another fighting retreat? I haven't kept up with daily releases but the dismissals don't sound justified. One i might understand, but dismissing eight and doing it poorly? Sounds like careless house cleaning followed by butt-covering. Not a great deal of value here. I'm hoping some of you veterans return with more information and your thoughts.
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There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195 |
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03-14-2007, 09:17 AM | #9 (permalink) |
Addict
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two characters
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The peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error. ~John Stuart Mill, On Liberty Last edited by politicophile; 02-09-2008 at 08:16 PM.. |
03-14-2007, 09:24 AM | #10 (permalink) | |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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this covers the same ground as politicophile's post, but includes more updated infotainment on the manoevering that is happening on the part of the bush squad to contain this:
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among the many lessons we could learn here, one will probably go unremarked, so i'll say it: passive voice should not be used by you. nor should it be used by the attorney general.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
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03-14-2007, 09:25 AM | #11 (permalink) | ||
Asshole
Administrator
Location: Chicago
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I learned my lesson.
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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo Last edited by The_Jazz; 03-14-2007 at 09:28 AM.. |
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03-14-2007, 09:36 AM | #12 (permalink) |
Deja Moo
Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA
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Another question to ask, given that these firings were politically motivated against those who would not "play ball," is what have the remaining US Attorneys been up to?
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"You can't ignore politics, no matter how much you'd like to." Molly Ivins - 1944-2007 |
03-14-2007, 09:52 AM | #13 (permalink) |
Addict
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two characters
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The peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error. ~John Stuart Mill, On Liberty Last edited by politicophile; 02-09-2008 at 08:16 PM.. |
03-14-2007, 09:57 AM | #14 (permalink) | |
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....so, if "those people" are correct about "what they say", there may be other US Attorneys besides Patrick Fitzgerald who aren't prosecuting "the bad people", like they're sposedta do.....just saying.... Last edited by host; 03-14-2007 at 10:10 AM.. |
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03-14-2007, 04:57 PM | #15 (permalink) |
Deja Moo
Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA
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Didn't some of "those people" try to get Fitzgerald fired early in the investigation? He was too high profile for this bit of sneakiness. Did you hear that the fired attorneys investigated Democratic wrong doing seven times more often than that of Republicans? Obviously, the Dems must be really "bad people" to have caused this imbalance. Perhaps there was a ten to one expectation? ...jus' sayin'
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"You can't ignore politics, no matter how much you'd like to." Molly Ivins - 1944-2007 |
03-15-2007, 04:13 AM | #16 (permalink) | |
Asshole
Administrator
Location: Chicago
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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo |
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03-15-2007, 04:54 AM | #18 (permalink) |
Extreme moderation
Location: Kansas City, yo.
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I read about this yesterday, but the source I read it from also mentioned that Clinton did the same thing, except he fired all of them rather than some. Is that true?
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"The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand) "The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck) |
03-15-2007, 04:59 AM | #19 (permalink) |
Asshole
Administrator
Location: Chicago
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Actually, it's customary for prosecutors to resign when a new administration comes on board. They're considered political appointees, and they're not in the job for life (like judges). The job is considered a jumping-off point for state-wide offices like Senator or Governor. Getting rid of the previous administration's appointees isn't news. Firing your own midstream is.
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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo |
03-15-2007, 05:10 AM | #20 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Right here
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I agree with you, he shouldn't be using it...but it's intentional
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"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann "You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman |
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03-15-2007, 09:28 AM | #21 (permalink) |
This vexes me. I am terribly vexed.
Location: Grantville, Pa
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It's not that he fired them. It's that he/his administration ranked them all according to republican loyalty and then cut off the bottom of the list. Primarially, the ones who prosecuted the lions share of republican's during the term.
It's also that he used a provision in the Patriot Act to bypass congress in giving the replacement judges recess appointments. |
03-18-2007, 04:04 PM | #23 (permalink) | ||
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It is dishonest to protest now, if you did not protest then. |
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03-18-2007, 04:56 PM | #25 (permalink) |
Junkie
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There is a huge difference between cleaning the slate of US attorneys when entering office (this is the tradition and has been happening almost every time a president takes office) and firing 8 specific ones because they participated in investigations that the GOP didn't like. This is completely different than Clinton. It is not the firing of the attorneys that is wrong it is the political ramifications the the side stepping congress when appointing new ones that is wrong.
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03-18-2007, 04:58 PM | #26 (permalink) | |
Location: Washington DC
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An e-mail exchange two years ago (at the start of Bush's second term), between Kyle Sampson at DOJ (who just resigned) and David Leitch (in the White House) provides an interesting perspective:
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Necrosis, do you think "not loyal Bushies" is a reasonable standard for performance evaluation when it comes to Justice Dept attorneys who are there to uphold the law, regardless of political affiliation....as opposed to most other presidential appointments in other departments who are expected to be carry out a president's policy? I think most would agree that the DOJ is the one agency that should be above partisanship...whether its under Clinton, Bush, or any future president.
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 03-18-2007 at 05:07 PM.. |
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03-18-2007, 05:52 PM | #27 (permalink) | |||||||
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Both Gonzales and his #2 have misled or told outright lies to congressional committees when they were asked why the 8 US Attorneys were being dismissed. .....and there is this..... Quote:
I would have fired Jay Stephens in a heartbeat, after Jan. 20, 1993. The Clinton DOJ was much less partisan than the Bush DOJ has been. FBI director Mueller, a republican, <a href="http://archives.cnn.com/2001/LAW/07/05/fbi.director/index.html">was a Clinton DOJ appointee....</a> Quote:
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There had been 12 years of republican managed DOJ appointments....again....if Stephens, DiGenova, and his wife, Toensing, were indicative of the ethics and partisanship of Reagan/Bush political appointees to DOJ, then it was imperative to remove them from DOJ ASAP in 1993. Read the entire WaPo article that I lnked about DiGenova and Toensing.....she was an asst. Atty Gen. in the pre-Clinton DOJ. She is all over conservative broadcast media with regard to the republican "message" that "no crime was committed" in the CIA Plame investigation. Have you ever heard her volunteer that she is a close personal friend of columnist Bob Novak....the WaPo article reports that she is...... Quote:
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03-19-2007, 05:37 AM | #28 (permalink) | |||
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03-19-2007, 05:56 AM | #29 (permalink) | ||
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I'll say it again. I'll even bold it so people don't miss it. past crimes and wrongdoings of past presidents do not excuse the crimes and wrongdoings of current presidents. The republicans love to call themselves the party of morals, yet any time they're caught doing something immoral instead of doing the moral thing they immediately try to justify it by saying "well HE did it TOOOOO!" That didn't work with my kid when he was 5, and it sure as hell doesn't work with the leader of the country. That said, your point is invalid anyway. It's routine for a president to replace the prosecutors with his own people when he takes office. You're right that no one got upset when Clinton did it. No one got upset when Bush the First did it either. They got upset this time because W fired the prosecutors for bullshit political reasons - -and he's the first president EVER to pull that stunt. Quote:
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03-19-2007, 06:32 AM | #30 (permalink) | |
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Do you really believe that your "dueling Googles" dismissal of my argument, complete with original research not dug up by "Curt" and passed off by him, and by you, as NY Times "reporting", is an adequate response.....something that holds up your end of an "adult discussion"? I lost respect for Curt when I noticed that he listed his admin. contact on the domain registration for floppingaces.net with the street address of the LA County Sheriff's Dept. location where he works, but with the zip code from his actual Fullerton, CA home address. Domain registrations are invalid if they display false of inaccurate contact information. "Curt" posted the link to the NY Times editorial excerpt that you used in your post. I'm assuming that he used the Sheriff's dept. street address to discourage anyone from finding out who it is that is posting the republican talking points on that site, or to intimidate anyone who is curious about him? Can anyone post a conservative argument, or a point, that is supported by a third party source <b>that has integrity</b> and is not part of a "talking points" campaign.... or has association to one of the propagandist individuals or entities that I've posted about earlier, here? Last edited by host; 03-19-2007 at 06:35 AM.. |
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03-19-2007, 08:01 AM | #31 (permalink) | |
Location: Washington DC
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The next showdown with the WH will occur later this week. There are many unanswered questions, going back to the start of Bush's second term, regarding WH involvement to push out the "non-Bushies" among the sitting US attorneys under the guise of poor performance.
There is also the issue, in one case, of potential WH attempt to interfer in a probe of Dusty" Foggo as part of the Cunningham corruption scandal. Quote:
Or will the WH cut a deal to push Gonzales out if the Senate Judiciary Committee agrees to backs off on WH testimony?
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 03-19-2007 at 08:12 AM.. |
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03-21-2007, 06:05 AM | #34 (permalink) |
Muffled
Location: Camazotz
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Here is an editorial by David Iglesias, one of the attorneys. It seems pretty telling to me. It also seems to me that the defense of this action can be boiled down to two things: "Clinton did it" and "they serve at the pleasure of the President." While the second of those is true (the first is a misrepresentation) Nixon fired people who served at his pleasure too.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/21/op...=1&oref=slogin Article click to show
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03-23-2007, 06:30 PM | #35 (permalink) | |||||||
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Should the RNC and the Bush admin. be investigated for RICO statute violations....are they essentially an ongoing criminal conspiracy, masquerading as a politcal party and the executive branch of our federal government?
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04-15-2007, 04:20 PM | #36 (permalink) | |
Deja Moo
Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA
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Bravo, Host! As always, you are way ahead of us all. I was about to post that the whole "voter fraud" nonsense was merely a red herring and that increased scrutiny is being given to the 85 surviving US Attorneys. Here is another example:
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"You can't ignore politics, no matter how much you'd like to." Molly Ivins - 1944-2007 |
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04-15-2007, 06:05 PM | #37 (permalink) | |
Location: Washington DC
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The Bush crowd knew what they were doing. The cries of voter fraud provided the cover for the Bush administration, and particularly political appointees in DoJ, to support the more insidioius efforts to suppress the votes of minorities:
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 04-15-2007 at 06:10 PM.. |
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04-15-2007, 07:01 PM | #38 (permalink) | |
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Information here suggests that Reagan tapped Rehnquist because they shared the same indifference to racial inequality: http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...st#post2201368 Rehnquist's dramatic lack of fitness and his "problem", first, as a poll "monitor", and then, in Phoenix, makes it seem that the problem of a "reverse" strategy when it comes to protecting voting rights is an entrenched attitude among many party members in position to make an official difference, if they weren't so partisan and lacking a sense of duty to protect voting rights of minorities with a long history as targets of those who have tried to interfere with their right to vote without unequal burden or challengeL http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...st#post2176531 Last edited by host; 04-15-2007 at 07:10 PM.. |
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04-15-2007, 07:16 PM | #39 (permalink) |
Location: Washington DC
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Host...its a bit off topic, but Anthony Kennedy, a Reagan appointee and David Souter, a Bush I appointee both have demonstrared a seriousness of judicial temperment without being driven by a Reagan/Rehnquist ideology. I dont presume anything with the two recent Bush appointees (I have more faith in Roberts than Alito) but we shall see.
Where we do agree is that this administration has damaged the integrity of the executive branch of government more than any in history.
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 04-15-2007 at 07:21 PM.. |
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brownnosers, bush, fired, prosecutors, replaced |
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