Reverse Latino discrimination in Public School - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

loganmule · 05-06-2006, 11:26 AM

I live in a Midwestern town of approximately 16,000. One of our largest employers is IBP, formerly Wilson Foods, which operates a pork processing and packing plant. As Wilson's, the employees were predominantly white, as was our community then. In the last 10 yrs or so, the employee composition has become almost exclusively Mexican immigrants, many of whom are illegal, and our town's ethnic composition similarly has made a dramatic swing. Just a guess, because the number of illegals isn't known, but probably at least 25% of our residents are of Mexican origin. The local Mexican school attendance, consisting of both legal and illegal immigrants, is somewhat lower.

At our community's municipal high school, there appears to be a developing pattern of reverse discrimination. Here are two examples.

A Mexican student was caught with a knife, which usually is an automatic expulsion offense. The knife was taken away from him and then given back at the end of the day, with no other consequence. A white student had a much smaller ornamental knife on his key chain. It was removed, and the student was expelled.

Mexican students are free to wear Mexican flags to school, either on their clothing or literally, a la Superman cape style. On the 5th of May, the high school students were forbidden from wearing U.S. flags or even red,white and blue clothing. Some kids disregarded the prohibition. They were sent home and suspended.

What I want is for all illegals to go home, and for all legals to be treated equally with all others of different ethnic origin. Oh yeah, I also want world peace.

Anyway, is this unique to our community, or are others seeing a similar trend? What reasonable solutions might there be for us? Your comments on this would be appreciated.

guy44 · 05-06-2006, 09:54 PM

I happen to disagree vehemently on the "illegals go home" bit, but don't feel like getting into that and it would be threadjacking besides.

I do know that state laws prohibiting the "desecration" of the flag, that often include clothing or apparal with the image of the flag, are illegal. In fact, I was part of an ACLU group that killed one midwestern state's flag desecration statute. It's pretty clearly unconstitutional. So if that school is public, they should never have been allowed to send those kids home and there is absolutely ground to appeal or something.

Rekna · 05-07-2006, 06:14 AM

If i lived in that community i would have wore a shirt with a bunch of flag pins on it or something to school and got expelled and then sued them and had college paid for

samcol · 05-07-2006, 07:15 AM

The midwest is strange like that. It's not a place where people typically think of regarding illegals aliens, but there are a few towns that are known for having illegal where I live that have somewhere around 25% illegal or so like you mention. Then you go 10 miles down the road to the next town and there's almost no illegals to be seen.

The reverse discrimmination is pretty digusting, but I guess that's what happens when a 2nd class citizen status is created due to the inaction of the federal government. Sounds like a pretty bad situation, illegals come in to town take your job, then their kids get preferential treatment in the schools.

Willravel · 05-07-2006, 07:24 AM

Kids wearing Meixcan flags? Fine with me. Getting sent homee for wearing red, white, and blue? Time for some school administrators to get fired. I can understand wanting to give the Mexican students a day to celebrate their heritage, but to send kids home for wearing red, white and blue is absolutely absurd. I don't call this reverse discrimination: it's simply discrimination, and it's shameful.

kutulu · 05-07-2006, 07:41 AM

Sorry but I don't buy it. The things in the OP sound like urban legend fodder that gets forwarded in emails.

guy44 · 05-07-2006, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kutulu

Sorry but I don't buy it. The things in the OP sound like urban legend fodder that gets forwarded in emails.

I agree. But I know the American flag thing is the law in a bunch of states. It's very, very stupid and quite unconstitutional. So if that ever does happen - which I highly doubt - that law can be struck. Just saying.

loganmule · 05-07-2006, 09:59 AM

The flag prohibition at the high school here made front page news today in the paper. According to the assistant principal, there was an anticipated backlash from allowing Mexican students an excused absence on Monday, in observance of the planned demonstrations. The paper said that ALL students were prohibited from wearing ANY flags on Friday. The report went on to say that the students sent home for wearing a U.S. flag received an apology, after the assistant principal reviewed applicable case law.

This still doesn't sit well with me. Basically, the administration made the mistake of declaring a local holiday for a class of students. If it hadn't done that, there would have been no potential backlash to be concerned with.

smooth · 05-07-2006, 11:53 AM

so, the school's at fault for anticipating backlash from some small town, white, racists? whereas they would have been better off to succumb to the threat of stupid hatred and not allow mexican students a local holiday on the day of their national holiday (and, incidentally, a cultural holiday that huge portions of US citizens share with them)?

as for flags/no flags debate...when you're dealing with irrational idiots, it's best to limit the things their petty minds might assplode over. similar restrictions against gang attire abound all throughout school districts--with very good reason. we could talk free speech this and that, all important theoretically and in reality, but when it comes to kids killing or maiming kids in the name of, a modicum of rationality would benefit everyone involved or quarterbacking.

and what's this about "seeing" illegals all over the place and in various towns? I wasn't aware of any particular markings or behavior "they" exhibit.

jorgelito · 05-07-2006, 12:25 PM

Really? Huge portions of the US celebrate this "cultural" holiday? Can you provide some sources please and clarify what you mean.

Do you mean thousands of white college kids getting drunk off Coronas and puking up tacos as celebrating or Mexicans/ Mexican-Americans celebrating their "independence" day? Huge meaning a majority? Do Mexicans constitute a majority of the US?

The school is most definitely at fault for applying a double-standard. If you allow some students to display the flag then you have to allow all students to do the same. It's consistent.

However, it is rather strange to me that Americans (hyphenated or not) would want to celebrate the independence of another country (unless they are foreign students).

No single group should get preferential treatment over another in the context of race, ethnicity etc.

The knife case is rather strange as well. I would assume someone would protest that and get to the bottom of it.

smooth · 05-07-2006, 05:00 PM

yeah dude, lots of people celebrate cinco de mayo--some are college students, some are mexican immigrants (legal and illegal), and some are just normal people that like to get out and go dance and have a good time with other people in the real world.

didn't realize I had to provide a source about who has fun on cinco de mayo.
sorry you didn't hear about any parties this weekend, lots of fun really.

lol, I dunno why anyone should celebrate cinco de mayo if it's such a head-buster for you. I like any good reason for a festival. But it's not Mexican Independence Day, I guess you should look up some history if you want to understand why someone would or wouldn't want to participate--if it's that much concern for you

here's the first google hit:

Quote:

The 5th of May is not Mexican Independence Day, but it should be! And Cinco de Mayo is not an American holiday, but it should be. Mexico declared its independence from mother Spain on midnight, the 15th of September, 1810. And it took 11 years before the first Spanish soldiers were told and forced to leave Mexico.

So, why Cinco de Mayo? And why should Americans savor this day as well? Because 4,000 Mexican soldiers smashed the French and traitor Mexican army of 8,000 at Puebla, Mexico, 100 miles east of Mexico City on the morning of May 5, 1862.

The French had landed in Mexico (along with Spanish and English troops) five months earlier on the pretext of collecting Mexican debts from the newly elected government of democratic President (and Indian) Benito Juarez. The English and Spanish quickly made deals and left. The French, however, had different ideas.

Under Emperor Napoleon III, who detested the United States, the French came to stay. They brought a Hapsburg prince with them to rule the new Mexican empire. His name was Maximilian; his wife, Carolota. Napoleon's French Army had not been defeated in 50 years, and it invaded Mexico with the finest modern equipment and with a newly reconstituted Foreign Legion. The French were not afraid of anyone, especially since the United States was embroiled in its own Civil War.

The French Army left the port of Vera Cruz to attack Mexico City to the west, as the French assumed that the Mexicans would give up should their capital fall to the enemy -- as European countries traditionally did.

Under the command of Texas-born General Zaragosa, (and the cavalry under the command of Colonel Porfirio Diaz, later to be Mexico's president and dictator), the Mexicans awaited. Brightly dressed French Dragoons led the enemy columns. The Mexican Army was less stylish.

General Zaragosa ordered Colonel Diaz to take his cavalry, the best in the world, out to the French flanks. In response, the French did a most stupid thing; they sent their cavalry off to chase Diaz and his men, who proceeded to butcher them. The remaining French infantrymen charged the Mexican defenders through sloppy mud from a thunderstorm and through hundreds of head of stampeding cattle stirred up by Indians armed only with machetes.

When the battle was over, many French were killed or wounded and their cavalry was being chased by Diaz' superb horsemen miles away. The Mexicans had won a great victory that kept Napoleon III from supplying the confederate rebels for another year, allowing the United States to build the greatest army the world had ever seen. This grand army smashed the Confederates at Gettysburg just 14 months after the battle of Puebla, essentially ending the Civil War.

Union forces were then rushed to the Texas/Mexican border under General Phil Sheridan, who made sure that the Mexicans got all the weapons and ammunition they needed to expel the French. American soldiers were discharged with their uniforms and rifles if they promised to join the Mexican Army to fight the French. The American Legion of Honor marched in the Victory Parade in Mexico, City.

It might be a historical stretch to credit the survival of the United States to those brave 4,000 Mexicans who faced an army twice as large in 1862. But who knows?

In gratitude, thousands of Mexicans crossed the border after Pearl Harbor to join the U.S. Armed Forces. As recently as the Persian Gulf War, Mexicans flooded American consulates with phone calls, trying to join up and fight another war for America.

Mexicans, you see, never forget who their friends are, and neither do Americans. That's why Cinco de Mayo is such a party -- A party that celebrates freedom and liberty. There are two ideals which Mexicans and Americans have fought shoulder to shoulder to protect, ever since the 5th of May, 1862. VIVA! el CINCO DE MAYO!!

http://www.vivacincodemayo.org/history.htm

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=104241
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=104311

Lebell · 05-07-2006, 08:01 PM

Yup, pretty crummy holiday, if you ask me.

Of course, where I was, the kids clogging the streets and pissing on lawns while waving the mexican flag generally didn't have a clue what Cinco de Mayo was about.

Oh, and yeah, I've seen the reverse discrimination thing too, but I tend to agree with Willravel and say it's just discrimination.

jorgelito · 05-07-2006, 08:08 PM

Oh no dude, I think you misunderstood me

. These are all separate issues I suppose. I was writing in response to your response cause I thought it was all jumbled together.

In regards to "huge" - I interpreted it as meaning huge numbers of Mexicans are turning out in droves to celebrate this. My point was that it it is a mixed crowd (hence the college kids reference). So my point is that it is not strcitly some Mexican thing in this context, and quite possibly some watered down marginalized event (due to the commercialization).

And yes, I have since noted my error in refering to it as Mexican Indpendence Day. I think that is celebrated where I live which might have caused the confusion.

The other issues mixed up in all of this (post-thread) are free-speech, double standards etc in regards to the school's actions. That is why I responded to your post. I thought it was a bit unfair for you to assume the town was racist, at least without expanding on it. Lastly, the flags debate: the op was talking about a double-standard applied to it, your post didn't really address that (I'm not picking on you by the way, just looking for clarification).

Oh, thanks for the Google link

I have since been duly informed of the correct history and my head never busted

Marvelous Marv · 05-07-2006, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samcol

The reverse discrimmination is pretty digusting, but I guess that's what happens when a 2nd class citizen status is created due to the inaction of the federal government. |

Or when preferential treatment is given on the basis of race or national origin.

smooth · 05-08-2006, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorgelito

I thought it was a bit unfair for you to assume the town was racist, at least without expanding on it. Lastly, the flags debate: the op was talking about a double-standard applied to it, your post didn't really address that (I'm not picking on you by the way, just looking for clarification).

I never said the town was racist.

The school was afraid of a backlash against mexican kids for getting a day off from school on their cultural holiday. loganmule blamed it on the school, stating that if the administration hadn't thought about giving mexican students a day off, there wouldn't have been any backlash. That's a retarded causal inference; if there weren't any racists, THEN there wouldn't be any backlash.

I didn't address the "double standard" because it was bullshit--there wasn't one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by loganmule

The paper said that ALL students were prohibited from wearing ANY flags on Friday.

students who want to wear the US flag are allowed to do so, and mexicans who want to wear the Mexican flag are allowed to do so--except for this one day when NO ONE was allowed to wear any flags. Why? because racists are usually too stupid to keep their idiocy to themselves and they have a tendency to not keep their mouths shut when they see the object of their irrational hatred. on days of national importance, like cinco de mayo, when inter-racial tensions are running high, some "witty" or degrading comment is more likely to result in a fight.

on to free speech: in situations that effect the ordinary functioning of the school and safety of the students, school administrations have been allowed to limit "freedoms" adults enjoy in public society, and reasonably so in my opinion.

loganmule · 05-08-2006, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smooth

The school was afraid of a backlash against mexican kids for getting a day off from school on their cultural holiday. loganmule blamed it on the school, stating that if the administration hadn't thought about giving mexican students a day off, there wouldn't have been any backlash. That's a retarded causal inference; if there weren't any racists, THEN there wouldn't be any backlash.

You didn't read my post correctly, smooth, and then pounded me for your own retarded casual mistake. NO ONE got the 5th of May off, great holiday though it may be (personally, my love of alcohol would have led me to instead vote for St. Patrick's Day off, for students so inclined).

What happened was that Mexican students, and ONLY Mexican students, were allowed an excused absence on the FIRST of May, in recognition of the planned demonstrations (you remember...the day without immigrants).

Was this prejudical treatment? Absolutely. Was it appropriate for a public school administration to take this action? Absolutely not.

smooth · 05-08-2006, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loganmule

You didn't read my post correctly, smooth

loganmule, I read your jumbled and misleading posts just fine (I originally wrote holiday and immigration protests, but revised it once it became apparent that too many sentences, especially if not small enough, were confusing some TFP members). You posted a comment on Sunday the 7th, that the administration was thinking of giving students "Monday" off. I guess we all should have known that you were referring to the 1st of May instead of the next day...however, it doesn't matter whether it was may, june, or july, "backlash" against racial groups comes from racists, NOT school admins for giving any, all, or none of their students days off from school.

Contentious text removed

Quote:

Originally Posted by kutulu

Sorry but I don't buy it. The things in the OP sound like urban legend fodder that gets forwarded in emails.

loganmule · 05-09-2006, 03:00 PM

I'll show you mine, smooth. Here's a link to Monday's take on the events (you'll have to take my word for the Sunday article...sorry if that's a stretch for you):

http://www.pharostribune.com/local/l...128111816.html

For the record, I'm not a bigot. Maybe I'm naive, but I think that all citizens should receive equal treatment under the law, and that in the case of minors, care should be taken to instill that attribute in them. Special "one time only" holidays for ethnic segments doesn't get that done.

Removed. This is a warning.

Charlatan · 05-09-2006, 03:29 PM

This thread is being closed because some posters have chosen to insult each other rather than have a discussion.

05-06-2006, 11:26 AM	#1 (permalink)
loganmule Junkie Location: midwest	Reverse Latino discrimination in Public School I live in a Midwestern town of approximately 16,000. One of our largest employers is IBP, formerly Wilson Foods, which operates a pork processing and packing plant. As Wilson's, the employees were predominantly white, as was our community then. In the last 10 yrs or so, the employee composition has become almost exclusively Mexican immigrants, many of whom are illegal, and our town's ethnic composition similarly has made a dramatic swing. Just a guess, because the number of illegals isn't known, but probably at least 25% of our residents are of Mexican origin. The local Mexican school attendance, consisting of both legal and illegal immigrants, is somewhat lower. At our community's municipal high school, there appears to be a developing pattern of reverse discrimination. Here are two examples. A Mexican student was caught with a knife, which usually is an automatic expulsion offense. The knife was taken away from him and then given back at the end of the day, with no other consequence. A white student had a much smaller ornamental knife on his key chain. It was removed, and the student was expelled. Mexican students are free to wear Mexican flags to school, either on their clothing or literally, a la Superman cape style. On the 5th of May, the high school students were forbidden from wearing U.S. flags or even red,white and blue clothing. Some kids disregarded the prohibition. They were sent home and suspended. What I want is for all illegals to go home, and for all legals to be treated equally with all others of different ethnic origin. Oh yeah, I also want world peace. Anyway, is this unique to our community, or are others seeing a similar trend? What reasonable solutions might there be for us? Your comments on this would be appreciated.

05-06-2006, 09:54 PM	#2 (permalink)
guy44 Somnabulist Location: corner of No and Where	I happen to disagree vehemently on the "illegals go home" bit, but don't feel like getting into that and it would be threadjacking besides. I do know that state laws prohibiting the "desecration" of the flag, that often include clothing or apparal with the image of the flag, are illegal. In fact, I was part of an ACLU group that killed one midwestern state's flag desecration statute. It's pretty clearly unconstitutional. So if that school is public, they should never have been allowed to send those kids home and there is absolutely ground to appeal or something. __________________ "You have reached Ritual Sacrifice. For goats press one, or say 'goats.'"

05-07-2006, 11:53 AM	#9 (permalink)
smooth Junkie Location: Right here	so, the school's at fault for anticipating backlash from some small town, white, racists? whereas they would have been better off to succumb to the threat of stupid hatred and not allow mexican students a local holiday on the day of their national holiday (and, incidentally, a cultural holiday that huge portions of US citizens share with them)? as for flags/no flags debate...when you're dealing with irrational idiots, it's best to limit the things their petty minds might assplode over. similar restrictions against gang attire abound all throughout school districts--with very good reason. we could talk free speech this and that, all important theoretically and in reality, but when it comes to kids killing or maiming kids in the name of, a modicum of rationality would benefit everyone involved or quarterbacking. and what's this about "seeing" illegals all over the place and in various towns? I wasn't aware of any particular markings or behavior "they" exhibit. __________________ "The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann "You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

05-07-2006, 08:01 PM	#12 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	Yup, pretty crummy holiday, if you ask me. Of course, where I was, the kids clogging the streets and pissing on lawns while waving the mexican flag generally didn't have a clue what Cinco de Mayo was about. Oh, and yeah, I've seen the reverse discrimination thing too, but I tend to agree with Willravel and say it's just discrimination. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

05-09-2006, 03:00 PM	#18 (permalink)
loganmule Junkie Location: midwest	I'll show you mine, smooth. Here's a link to Monday's take on the events (you'll have to take my word for the Sunday article...sorry if that's a stretch for you): http://www.pharostribune.com/local/l...128111816.html For the record, I'm not a bigot. Maybe I'm naive, but I think that all citizens should receive equal treatment under the law, and that in the case of minors, care should be taken to instill that attribute in them. Special "one time only" holidays for ethnic segments doesn't get that done. Removed. This is a warning. Last edited by Charlatan; 05-09-2006 at 03:27 PM..

05-07-2006, 06:14 AM	#3 (permalink)
Rekna Junkie	If i lived in that community i would have wore a shirt with a bunch of flag pins on it or something to school and got expelled and then sued them and had college paid for

05-07-2006, 07:15 AM	#4 (permalink)
samcol Junkie Location: Indiana	The midwest is strange like that. It's not a place where people typically think of regarding illegals aliens, but there are a few towns that are known for having illegal where I live that have somewhere around 25% illegal or so like you mention. Then you go 10 miles down the road to the next town and there's almost no illegals to be seen. The reverse discrimmination is pretty digusting, but I guess that's what happens when a 2nd class citizen status is created due to the inaction of the federal government. Sounds like a pretty bad situation, illegals come in to town take your job, then their kids get preferential treatment in the schools.

05-07-2006, 07:24 AM	#5 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Kids wearing Meixcan flags? Fine with me. Getting sent homee for wearing red, white, and blue? Time for some school administrators to get fired. I can understand wanting to give the Mexican students a day to celebrate their heritage, but to send kids home for wearing red, white and blue is absolutely absurd. I don't call this reverse discrimination: it's simply discrimination, and it's shameful.

05-07-2006, 07:41 AM	#6 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	Sorry but I don't buy it. The things in the OP sound like urban legend fodder that gets forwarded in emails.

05-07-2006, 09:59 AM	#8 (permalink)
loganmule Junkie Location: midwest	The flag prohibition at the high school here made front page news today in the paper. According to the assistant principal, there was an anticipated backlash from allowing Mexican students an excused absence on Monday, in observance of the planned demonstrations. The paper said that ALL students were prohibited from wearing ANY flags on Friday. The report went on to say that the students sent home for wearing a U.S. flag received an apology, after the assistant principal reviewed applicable case law. This still doesn't sit well with me. Basically, the administration made the mistake of declaring a local holiday for a class of students. If it hadn't done that, there would have been no potential backlash to be concerned with.

05-07-2006, 12:25 PM	#10 (permalink)
jorgelito All important elusive independent swing voter... Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia	Really? Huge portions of the US celebrate this "cultural" holiday? Can you provide some sources please and clarify what you mean. Do you mean thousands of white college kids getting drunk off Coronas and puking up tacos as celebrating or Mexicans/ Mexican-Americans celebrating their "independence" day? Huge meaning a majority? Do Mexicans constitute a majority of the US? The school is most definitely at fault for applying a double-standard. If you allow some students to display the flag then you have to allow all students to do the same. It's consistent. However, it is rather strange to me that Americans (hyphenated or not) would want to celebrate the independence of another country (unless they are foreign students). No single group should get preferential treatment over another in the context of race, ethnicity etc. The knife case is rather strange as well. I would assume someone would protest that and get to the bottom of it.

05-07-2006, 08:08 PM	#13 (permalink)
jorgelito All important elusive independent swing voter... Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia	Oh no dude, I think you misunderstood me . These are all separate issues I suppose. I was writing in response to your response cause I thought it was all jumbled together. In regards to "huge" - I interpreted it as meaning huge numbers of Mexicans are turning out in droves to celebrate this. My point was that it it is a mixed crowd (hence the college kids reference). So my point is that it is not strcitly some Mexican thing in this context, and quite possibly some watered down marginalized event (due to the commercialization). And yes, I have since noted my error in refering to it as Mexican Indpendence Day. I think that is celebrated where I live which might have caused the confusion. The other issues mixed up in all of this (post-thread) are free-speech, double standards etc in regards to the school's actions. That is why I responded to your post. I thought it was a bit unfair for you to assume the town was racist, at least without expanding on it. Lastly, the flags debate: the op was talking about a double-standard applied to it, your post didn't really address that (I'm not picking on you by the way, just looking for clarification). Oh, thanks for the Google link I have since been duly informed of the correct history and my head never busted

05-09-2006, 03:29 PM	#19 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	This thread is being closed because some posters have chosen to insult each other rather than have a discussion. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke