If I'm not online, does this thread exist? - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Martian · 12-27-2005, 11:42 PM

Does it matter if this thread exists?

Life and everything involved with it is uncertainty. A sound is not a sound until it is heard; at the same time, a tree falling creates the same atmospheric vibrations regardless of whether or not there is someone perceiving those vibrations. Is it a sound, or not? I don't know. More importantly, does it matter?

The great important key to life is learning how to let that which does not matter slide. Schrodinger's cat may be dead or alive; however, the observer effect states clearly that the cat's state is undisturbed only so long as it is unknown. And it is only in the undisturbed state that a quantum level of uncertainty exists. Due to the isolation of this, it has no ramifications on your or my daily life and can therefore be grokked and cherished, allowing you to move on with your life.

In pertinence to your specific query, this thread most certainly exists, although not necessarily in the manner I suspect you're considering. Even if it is only a hallucination or a figment of your imagination, it must exist. Thought and creativity are a form of existence; there are some who would argue it is the only form of existence and I will most definitely assert that it is the only important one. When you are offline this thread may not exist and it's state is most definitely not what you currently consider it to be. It's condition is transient, as is everything. However, it is only when you are online that it is truly an issue; by your perception, there are no consequences of this thread ceasing to exist while you are not viewing it, so long as it does exist at the time that you are.

aceventura3 · 12-29-2005, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Furlicker

I IM therefore I am

Existence, in some cases, is based on someone saying a thing exsits - i.e Microsoft Corp. exists because the government says it exists. If Microsoft's corporate charter was revoked Microsoft would no longer exist. However, everything that was Microsoft will continue to exsist. On all levels this is true. This thread exists until it is deleted, however, everything that made up this thread will continue to exist. The building blocks of all excistance can not be destroyed or created. God is the begining and the end.

Mantus · 12-29-2005, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceventura3

God is the begining and the end.

What a curveball.

aceventura3 · 12-29-2005, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mantus

What a curveball.

I can not comprehend how something comes from nothing, I believe God is the explanation.

97mph fastball down the middle.

simivin · 01-03-2006, 09:59 AM

Well, Malebranche would support the God perspective, certainly. But Hume would disagree, saying that God is as unknowable as the nature of the original question. Especially if you reference "clearly and distinctly perceived" arguments, similar to the whole "seeing is believing" bit. If you think that something cannot be clearly and distinctly perceived -- whether as impression or idea -- and reference God, then there is some uncertainty still, since God's true nature (if He exists) is not clearly and distinctly perceived.

aceventura3 · 01-03-2006, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simivin

Well, Malebranche would support the God perspective, certainly. But Hume would disagree, saying that God is as unknowable as the nature of the original question. Especially if you reference "clearly and distinctly perceived" arguments, similar to the whole "seeing is believing" bit. If you think that something cannot be clearly and distinctly perceived -- whether as impression or idea -- and reference God, then there is some uncertainty still, since God's true nature (if He exists) is not clearly and distinctly perceived.

True. That is why my uncertainty leads to my belief inGod. And as long as I have uncertainty God will exist to me. I do not understand how those who don't believe in God resolve their uncertainty issue. Perhaps they have found all the answers.

simivin · 01-03-2006, 04:06 PM

I think that's a fair point -- whether you manifest that uncertainty as God or just "something." As for those who try to reconcile it all without God, maybe it's just an conceding not to know. Again, to reference Hume, he didn't say, for instance, that there wasn't a necessary connexion between cause and effect, just that we couldn't know it; thus, it existed in our mind. Maybe you can extrapolate that psychological bit even further -- whatever you are uncertain about exists in your mind however you want to see it. If this is God, so be it; if it is Nature, so be it; etc.

revolutionmetro · 01-09-2006, 05:16 AM

The thread only exists when I look at it. I don't know what it is when I am not looking, and I have to accept this.

Tachion · 01-10-2006, 08:36 AM

Unfortunately seeing something is not proof of its existance. Optical illusions being a case in point, or perhaps even magicians tricks.

Optical illusions are proof that our brain has 'limitations' of perception and perhaps even some bad wiring. Even drugs can easily change reality for the observer. We are ceating our own 'matrix, so to speak.

The observer makes something exist - to the observer. Its ALL relative to the observer.

Relality as you percieve it is a function of your mind, not of reality. Mathmatics is shedding some light on just how different reality seems to 'its' perception.

This forum is an interpretation, first by a computer, then by you. It is the computer algorithms and your personal understanding which pulls it all together into the form you call a thread. Take away the computer processing, the observers and all you have are bits on a hard drive 'beach'.

Yes they are 1 and 0's but remember - there is no such thing as a '1'. That is a construct of our mind.

Great thread - too bad it doesn't exist.

12-27-2005, 11:42 PM	#41 (permalink)
Martian Young Crumudgeon Location: Canada	Does it matter if this thread exists? Life and everything involved with it is uncertainty. A sound is not a sound until it is heard; at the same time, a tree falling creates the same atmospheric vibrations regardless of whether or not there is someone perceiving those vibrations. Is it a sound, or not? I don't know. More importantly, does it matter? The great important key to life is learning how to let that which does not matter slide. Schrodinger's cat may be dead or alive; however, the observer effect states clearly that the cat's state is undisturbed only so long as it is unknown. And it is only in the undisturbed state that a quantum level of uncertainty exists. Due to the isolation of this, it has no ramifications on your or my daily life and can therefore be grokked and cherished, allowing you to move on with your life. In pertinence to your specific query, this thread most certainly exists, although not necessarily in the manner I suspect you're considering. Even if it is only a hallucination or a figment of your imagination, it must exist. Thought and creativity are a form of existence; there are some who would argue it is the only form of existence and I will most definitely assert that it is the only important one. When you are offline this thread may not exist and it's state is most definitely not what you currently consider it to be. It's condition is transient, as is everything. However, it is only when you are online that it is truly an issue; by your perception, there are no consequences of this thread ceasing to exist while you are not viewing it, so long as it does exist at the time that you are. __________________ I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

01-03-2006, 09:59 AM	#45 (permalink)
simivin Banned	Well, Malebranche would support the God perspective, certainly. But Hume would disagree, saying that God is as unknowable as the nature of the original question. Especially if you reference "clearly and distinctly perceived" arguments, similar to the whole "seeing is believing" bit. If you think that something cannot be clearly and distinctly perceived -- whether as impression or idea -- and reference God, then there is some uncertainty still, since God's true nature (if He exists) is not clearly and distinctly perceived.

01-03-2006, 04:06 PM	#47 (permalink)
simivin Banned	I think that's a fair point -- whether you manifest that uncertainty as God or just "something." As for those who try to reconcile it all without God, maybe it's just an conceding not to know. Again, to reference Hume, he didn't say, for instance, that there wasn't a necessary connexion between cause and effect, just that we couldn't know it; thus, it existed in our mind. Maybe you can extrapolate that psychological bit even further -- whatever you are uncertain about exists in your mind however you want to see it. If this is God, so be it; if it is Nature, so be it; etc.

01-09-2006, 05:16 AM	#48 (permalink)
revolutionmetro Upright	The thread only exists when I look at it. I don't know what it is when I am not looking, and I have to accept this.

01-10-2006, 08:36 AM	#49 (permalink)
Tachion Crazy	Unfortunately seeing something is not proof of its existance. Optical illusions being a case in point, or perhaps even magicians tricks. Optical illusions are proof that our brain has 'limitations' of perception and perhaps even some bad wiring. Even drugs can easily change reality for the observer. We are ceating our own 'matrix, so to speak. The observer makes something exist - to the observer. Its ALL relative to the observer. Relality as you percieve it is a function of your mind, not of reality. Mathmatics is shedding some light on just how different reality seems to 'its' perception. This forum is an interpretation, first by a computer, then by you. It is the computer algorithms and your personal understanding which pulls it all together into the form you call a thread. Take away the computer processing, the observers and all you have are bits on a hard drive 'beach'. Yes they are 1 and 0's but remember - there is no such thing as a '1'. That is a construct of our mind. Great thread - too bad it doesn't exist.