Growing Meat in Test Tubes... - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

politicophile · 08-15-2005, 11:51 AM

Quote:

A research team is proposing a new technique that would allow meat to be grown in a laboratory for mass consumption, according to a report.
Researchers in the U.S. say the technology now exists now to produce processed meats such as burgers and sausages, starting with cells taken from cows, chickens, pigs, fish or other animals.
Growing meat without the animal would not only reduce the need for the animals -- which often are kept in less than ideal conditions -- but may also address a number of environmental ills blamed on meat production.
Cultured meat could also be tailored to be healthier than farm-raised meat, while satisfying the increasing demand for protein by the world's growing population, proponents say.
Industrializing the process could involve growing muscle cells on large sheets or beads suspended in a growth medium.
Once the cells have grown enough, they could be scraped off and packaged. If edible sheets or beads are used, all of it could be eaten.
But butchers and vegetarians are just two groups of people who are yet to be convinced.
"To he honest anything they can do with test tubes or whatever, it can't be made," butcher Rodney Macken said.
"I don't like eating a cow that's been pumped full of growth hormones that artificially grow it so it gets onto our plates quicker," a diner said. " I would feel the same about a lump of meat that had been pumped full of chemicals and that had been artificially modified."
Supporters also said growing meat would reduce the number of animals killed and cut environmental waste that comes from livestock.
Watch Local 6 News for more on this story.

Full story

What are the ethical implications of "growing" meat without actually creating or destroying animals? Is this an animal rights activist's dream come true?

flobadon · 08-15-2005, 05:45 PM

I wish the article explained a little bit more indepth the process of "extracting" the original cells from the animals. Not only that, but how it is "grown". I suppose these questions are the primary source of all the ethical issues that I'm sure are flying around on this issue. The people they interviewed seemed to oppose it because the end product is "a lump of meat that had been pumped full of chemicals", though the article never explicitly states that's how the technology works. I'm sure chemicals are involved, but which ones? Are they "pumped" into the meat? It sounds like it might work in the same manner as skin grafting or other similar technologies. If so, would the same people that wouldn't eat this meat refuse to recieve skin grafts?

It seems to me like in the long run, it would be a good thing if all of their claims are true. If proven safe, I don't think I would have a problem eating artificially cultivated meat. On the other hand, I don't know much about it. Then again, I try to remain ignorant about what they do to produce meat from livestock -- ask any vegan and they will probably tell you horrible things about how meat products are "created". Don't like it? Then don't eat it.

The real question is, how does it taste?

Xazy · 08-15-2005, 06:34 PM

You might laugh but my main concern is, I do not think it would be kosher.

Robaggio · 08-15-2005, 06:43 PM

I think this would be great. Especially considering how much energy is gone to waste on the count of producing real meat and the such. It'll be interesting to see where technology will take this.

cyrnel · 08-15-2005, 07:36 PM

Dream come true? Isn't it a vegan nightmare?

New T-shirt:
Meat has(ve?) feelings too.

CSflim · 08-15-2005, 08:27 PM

Given that many (not all) vegetarians and vegans are also openly anti-science/anti-technology, especially when it comes to food, I'm not sure how big of an impact this would have on that particular community. Also, who's willing to wager that this 'synthetic meat' tastes very....erm...synthetic? At least for the first few years, until they perfect the techniques.

This is all very interesting, but I don't imagine that this will be an easy sell.

Charlatan · 08-16-2005, 04:34 AM

My wife, a vegitarian, suggested that on first glance it takes care of her concerns about eating meat. She wanted more information though.

Redlemon · 08-16-2005, 05:16 AM

Don't forget the thread from a month ago, Meat Grown in a Lab, Would you Eat it??, for further background.

Quote:

Originally Posted by politicophile

What are the ethical implications of "growing" meat without actually creating or destroying animals? Is this an animal rights activist's dream come true?

It all depends on the activist and their personal reasons, as well as the details behind how the meat is made. I read an excelent scifi story by Harry Turtledove, about a genetically modified breed of pig that didn't have cloven hooves... and, was it Kosher?

typhus · 08-17-2005, 09:06 AM

Sounds like a competitor of spam. I wonder how it would taste? Would it really be considered beef or chicken anymore? I don't think it would do very well. People enjoy eating other animals too much.

Locobot · 08-17-2005, 09:31 PM

I guarantee it tastes like shit.

08-18-2005, 04:33 AM

This is the stuff that will go into all those nasty processed things like chicken 'shapes' or burgers, or hot-dogs. If they can replace all that 'mechanically reclaimed' meat with something equally vile, but without using up so much space, then I'm all for it. I still want eat the stuff, but I'll be happier knowing that the people in McDonald's are chowing down to something slightly less unpleasant than they are at the moment.

typhus · 08-18-2005, 10:34 AM

I agree. I would probably enjoy eating "grown meat" in hotdogs than the crap they put in them now.

cyrnel · 08-18-2005, 10:50 AM

If they can tailor the taste and scale the process it'd do away with huge waste (land/materials/polution) in commercial animal industries. That's completely ignoring ethical questions.

I'm all for it, I just wonder about the economics. The stuff we get in hotdogs is largely scraps. Using "grown meat" will be a tough sell. It won't be cheap initially, so why will packagers change. It'll be a more expensive component, it'll costs more to sell, and it canibalizes their profitable lines?

Time for a Ben & Jerry Meat flavor? <img src="http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/images/smilies/hmmm.gif"> ptui! Really, alternate marketers may be its only hope.

08-18-2005, 11:40 AM

I remember hearing all about vast 'flavouring' plants that already impart meaty flavours to the slurry that gets pressure-washed off animal carcasses before it goes into processed foods, so putting vat-grown meat through the same process doesn't seem problematic at all.

Can someone tell me what the 'ethical question' about this is - because I see absolutely none whatsoever.

cyrnel · 08-18-2005, 11:52 AM

Is it better to kill fewer animals for food? Beyond PETA concerns we have economic impact on food industry, its communities, and those that support it. The evolve-or-die card is always available, but look at what happened with tobacco.

Again, I'd give it a try and hope for the best but I have relatives who won't microwave their food for fear of eating radiation.

Gatorade Frost · 08-18-2005, 03:09 PM

If it came from a dead animal, raise an animal, keep it living healthily, then let it die of old age, and then BAM - You've got your animal to grow the meat from. It was gonna die anyway and it lived a good life.

Redlemon · 08-19-2005, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zen_tom

I remember hearing all about vast 'flavouring' plants that already impart meaty flavours to the slurry that gets pressure-washed off animal carcasses before it goes into processed foods, so putting vat-grown meat through the same process doesn't seem problematic at all.

Here's a plant for you: Givaudan . I've done some work at one of their plants. The whole place smells of cooked meat, and there is no meat there. It's creepy.

cyrnel · 08-19-2005, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redlemon

The whole place smells of cooked meat, and there is no meat there. It's creepy.

Did you check the attic?

genuinegirly · 09-13-2005, 04:59 PM

If the meat were produced without a mind to gather conciousness, I cannot blatantly oppose its production. But given other options, I would not personally partake.

ElvenDestiny · 09-19-2005, 07:49 AM

I'v always found it funny when people say stuff like "it tastes like shit" or like locobot said "I guarantee it tastes like shit.".. Locobot can you answer me exactly how you know what shit tastes like?

stevo · 09-19-2005, 08:48 AM

I'll assume that (once the process is perfected) the prime rib will taste like prime rib and the pork chop will taste like a pork chop. And if this is the case, and it is cheaper than the "old kind of meat" (that comes from actual animals) I'll eat it every day.

Comparable quality and price is what it comes down to for me.

xepherys · 09-19-2005, 01:04 PM

a) There should be no moral issues here...

b) I'd imagine it'd taste almost exactly the same for two reasons... they couldn't sell it if it didn't, and it's being grown from muscle tissue... which is what meat IS. *boggle* If the meat is made out of actual meat, how would it not taste like meat?

c) I'd think it'd be cheaper. You don't have farmers to pay, cattle to buy, raise, feed and slaughter. You just have labs full of meat machines. *shrug*

As for PETA and Vegans... who cares? If they eat it, great... if they don't... more for me! Yummy tube steak. Oh wait... Eeeewwww!!!

08-15-2005, 07:36 PM	#5 (permalink)
cyrnel Adequate Location: In my angry-dome.	Dream come true? Isn't it a vegan nightmare? New T-shirt: Meat has(ve?) feelings too. __________________ There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

08-15-2005, 08:27 PM	#6 (permalink)
CSflim Sky Piercer Location: Ireland	Given that many (not all) vegetarians and vegans are also openly anti-science/anti-technology, especially when it comes to food, I'm not sure how big of an impact this would have on that particular community. Also, who's willing to wager that this 'synthetic meat' tastes very....erm...synthetic? At least for the first few years, until they perfect the techniques. This is all very interesting, but I don't imagine that this will be an easy sell. __________________

08-16-2005, 04:34 AM	#7 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	My wife, a vegitarian, suggested that on first glance it takes care of her concerns about eating meat. She wanted more information though. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

08-18-2005, 10:50 AM	#13 (permalink)
cyrnel Adequate Location: In my angry-dome.	If they can tailor the taste and scale the process it'd do away with huge waste (land/materials/polution) in commercial animal industries. That's completely ignoring ethical questions. I'm all for it, I just wonder about the economics. The stuff we get in hotdogs is largely scraps. Using "grown meat" will be a tough sell. It won't be cheap initially, so why will packagers change. It'll be a more expensive component, it'll costs more to sell, and it canibalizes their profitable lines? Time for a Ben & Jerry Meat flavor? <img src="http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/images/smilies/hmmm.gif"> ptui! Really, alternate marketers may be its only hope. __________________ There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

08-18-2005, 11:52 AM	#15 (permalink)
cyrnel Adequate Location: In my angry-dome.	Is it better to kill fewer animals for food? Beyond PETA concerns we have economic impact on food industry, its communities, and those that support it. The evolve-or-die card is always available, but look at what happened with tobacco. Again, I'd give it a try and hope for the best but I have relatives who won't microwave their food for fear of eating radiation. __________________ There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

08-15-2005, 05:45 PM	#2 (permalink)
flobadon Upright Location: Davenport, Iowa	I wish the article explained a little bit more indepth the process of "extracting" the original cells from the animals. Not only that, but how it is "grown". I suppose these questions are the primary source of all the ethical issues that I'm sure are flying around on this issue. The people they interviewed seemed to oppose it because the end product is "a lump of meat that had been pumped full of chemicals", though the article never explicitly states that's how the technology works. I'm sure chemicals are involved, but which ones? Are they "pumped" into the meat? It sounds like it might work in the same manner as skin grafting or other similar technologies. If so, would the same people that wouldn't eat this meat refuse to recieve skin grafts? It seems to me like in the long run, it would be a good thing if all of their claims are true. If proven safe, I don't think I would have a problem eating artificially cultivated meat. On the other hand, I don't know much about it. Then again, I try to remain ignorant about what they do to produce meat from livestock -- ask any vegan and they will probably tell you horrible things about how meat products are "created". Don't like it? Then don't eat it. The real question is, how does it taste?

08-15-2005, 06:34 PM	#3 (permalink)
Xazy People in masks cannot be trusted Location: NYC	You might laugh but my main concern is, I do not think it would be kosher.

08-15-2005, 06:43 PM	#4 (permalink)
Robaggio Crazy	I think this would be great. Especially considering how much energy is gone to waste on the count of producing real meat and the such. It'll be interesting to see where technology will take this.

08-17-2005, 09:06 AM	#9 (permalink)
typhus Tilted Location: USA	Sounds like a competitor of spam. I wonder how it would taste? Would it really be considered beef or chicken anymore? I don't think it would do very well. People enjoy eating other animals too much.

08-17-2005, 09:31 PM	#10 (permalink)
Locobot is awesome!	I guarantee it tastes like shit.

08-18-2005, 04:33 AM	#11 (permalink)
zen_tom Guest	This is the stuff that will go into all those nasty processed things like chicken 'shapes' or burgers, or hot-dogs. If they can replace all that 'mechanically reclaimed' meat with something equally vile, but without using up so much space, then I'm all for it. I still want eat the stuff, but I'll be happier knowing that the people in McDonald's are chowing down to something slightly less unpleasant than they are at the moment.

08-18-2005, 10:34 AM	#12 (permalink)
typhus Tilted Location: USA	I agree. I would probably enjoy eating "grown meat" in hotdogs than the crap they put in them now.

08-18-2005, 11:40 AM	#14 (permalink)
zen_tom Guest	I remember hearing all about vast 'flavouring' plants that already impart meaty flavours to the slurry that gets pressure-washed off animal carcasses before it goes into processed foods, so putting vat-grown meat through the same process doesn't seem problematic at all. Can someone tell me what the 'ethical question' about this is - because I see absolutely none whatsoever.

08-18-2005, 03:09 PM	#16 (permalink)
Gatorade Frost Rookie	If it came from a dead animal, raise an animal, keep it living healthily, then let it die of old age, and then BAM - You've got your animal to grow the meat from. It was gonna die anyway and it lived a good life. __________________ I got in a fight one time with a really big guy, and he said, "I'm going to mop the floor with your face." I said, "You'll be sorry." He said, "Oh, yeah? Why?" I said, "Well, you won't be able to get into the corners very well." Emo Philips

09-13-2005, 04:59 PM	#19 (permalink)
genuinegirly Eat your vegetables Super Moderator Location: Arabidopsis-ville	If the meat were produced without a mind to gather conciousness, I cannot blatantly oppose its production. But given other options, I would not personally partake. __________________ "Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

09-19-2005, 07:49 AM	#20 (permalink)
ElvenDestiny Tilted Location: Pittsburgh, Pa	I'v always found it funny when people say stuff like "it tastes like shit" or like locobot said "I guarantee it tastes like shit.".. Locobot can you answer me exactly how you know what shit tastes like? __________________ A trees touch could be so soft it could steal you from reality. A winds whisper could be so fierce it could steal your life away.

09-19-2005, 08:48 AM	#21 (permalink)
stevo Rail Baron Location: Tallyfla	I'll assume that (once the process is perfected) the prime rib will taste like prime rib and the pork chop will taste like a pork chop. And if this is the case, and it is cheaper than the "old kind of meat" (that comes from actual animals) I'll eat it every day. Comparable quality and price is what it comes down to for me. __________________ "If I am such a genius why am I drunk, lost in the desert, with a bullet in my ass?" -Otto Mannkusser

09-19-2005, 01:04 PM	#22 (permalink)
xepherys <3 TFP Location: 17TLH2445607250	a) There should be no moral issues here... b) I'd imagine it'd taste almost exactly the same for two reasons... they couldn't sell it if it didn't, and it's being grown from muscle tissue... which is what meat IS. boggle If the meat is made out of actual meat, how would it not taste like meat? c) I'd think it'd be cheaper. You don't have farmers to pay, cattle to buy, raise, feed and slaughter. You just have labs full of meat machines. shrug As for PETA and Vegans... who cares? If they eat it, great... if they don't... more for me! Yummy tube steak. Oh wait... Eeeewwww!!!