Kurant

My baby boy Jared was born on Sunday night, and the lactation consultant at the hospital was there twice, and my son was simply just not getting it. A couple sucks here, a couple there, but no breastfeeding. Now, the milk isn't in quite in yet, and it may get easier. But, it had been 36 hours, he haden't ate, and so I said screw it. He took the bottle instantly, ate, quit throwing a fit, and slept for about 5 hours.

Now, when the pedatrician came in, she wasen't too happy we substutied formula that early. I got a little annoyed and kindly told her, I didn't care, he ate, and at that point, thats all I cared about.

She nodded with a blank look on her face, took him to do whatever they needed to do. Brought him back, and scheduled an appointment for today because of his Jondus. (Spelling?)

I've heard about doctors like this, and people like this. I'm not willing to hear it, and I'm certinaly not going to be overwhelmed by it. The most important thing is him eating, and if thats how he will eat consistantly, then thats how we are going to raise this child.

My wife seems set on this lady, and I'm just not willing to fight it out with her over somthing stupid. My wife keeps trying nursing, and at this point it's not working. However, pumping and feeding him with a bottle is working great. I'm really just not sure what to do here.

Do I find a new pedatrician?

Redlemon

First, it is 'jaundice', if you want to research it further.

Second, if your wife likes this doctor, you can probably stick with her. She can talk with the nurses at the hospital if she wants further lactation advice. My son didn't get it at first, he had a lot of trouble figuring out the latch. We didn't go to bottle early on, and he almost lost 10% of his birthweight, which is the "there's something wrong" level. After about two weeks (iirc), he figured it out, and we used both breast, pumped breastmilk in a bottle, and formula interchangably for the next 9 months.

Possible complicating factors for us included her large breasts (something about the curvature affecting the ability to latch), and the high doses of pain medications she was on following the C-section.

So, encourage her to stick with it, while you keep your kid nourished. Just because it didn't happen the first two days doesn't mean that it won't.

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doodlebird

i can't put enough emphasis on this.
do everything in your power to get the baby to breastfeed.
pediatricians and lactation consultants
actually DO know what they're talking about.
they've seen a hundred cases harder than yours.
don't give up after only a few rough days.
your wife is one who has the tough part.
she has to be the human bottle.

there are countless advantages for a breast fed baby.
the only advantages to a bottlefed baby
are the parents' comfort and or convenience.
and you gave those two up when you chose to be parents.

good luck. stick with it...
only 18 more years to go.

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xoxo
doodle

ShaniFaye

Im going to share my horrible experience with my daughters doctor.

I didnt breast feed, I never had any intention of it...(yes all the advocates can faint dead away now)

The first pediatrician Amanda had went off on me big time...telling me how I was deliberately depleting her iron, damaging her immune system, and I was going to be the cause of the major brain damage she was going to have because I was too selfish to breastfeed. Do you think that got my back up? Damn right it did....what did I do....I made the doctor do an iron count on her right then to see where it was at. Guess what? Her iron was off the charts....even on low iron formula. I fired that woman immeditately

See I have hemochromatosis...way too much iron in my system. Not that that had anything to do with my decision not to breastfeed, but I knew her "iron" wouldnt be affected by it because its passed down from mother to daughter....my mother has it, her mother has it and my sister has it.

My child not only has an EXCELLENT immune system...3 serious colds in 12 years, NO...let me repeat NO ear infections. Other than regular checkups and shots she has been to the doctor 3 times for illness, she is also in no way brain damaged...she is homeschooled and when she took her state standardized testing at age 10 she placed in the top 2% in the nation and her grades were at at 10th grade level.

Dont let "medical professionals" bully you into doing something like this. Millions of children around the world have not been breastfed.

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Redlemon

Did you miss this line?
The child is receiving breast milk. I don't think the container is as important as the contents, although there's something to be said for the bonding during breastfeeding.

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Mister Coaster

My daughter just turned one month old today, and we had a somewhat difficult time getting her on the breast at first. It mostly boiled down to the fact that my wife's milk had not fully come in yet. She (the baby) would suck, but wasn't getting anything. She lost almost a full pound from her birth weught, but after pumping breast milk and syringe feeding, she came back up. A few days later, there was more milk flowing than any 2 babies could drink, and breastfeeding was not a problem.

I think there is this huge movement to push breastfeeding in the medical industry these days. I saw countless posters in the maternity ward of the hospital pushing breastfeeding. Funny thing is, 50 years ago, the medical world was practically chopping off a mothers breasts and forcing bottle feeding on the public. The pendulum swings both ways. All the bottle fed kids of the 50's grew up just fine, and all of the breastfed kids of today will grow up fine too. If formula is the answer, then so be it. If you continue to disagree with this doctor, then by all means, turn her loose. Plenty of others out there.

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ngdawg

While your stance on breastfeeding is fine for you and yours, it is not the be all-end all. My daughter did not latch until she was 11 days old.
My twins were both nursed AND bottle-fed formula for 7 months(my son was spoonfed cereal starting at 5 weeks old as well because those two weren't enough). There's no such thing as 'nipple confusion'. Babies will eat and know that both that skin and rubber thing are giving them food.
Formula is perfectly healthy-hell, I was fed condensed milk mixed with karo syrup...I had no health problems outside of normal childhood illnesses.
Yes, it is about convenience, as long as the child is strong, healthy and happy.

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Meditrina

You have to do what is right for both mother and baby. I tried to breastfeed both of my children, and didn't last very long both times. My daughter was still having latching problems 2 weeks later, being very concerned for her health, a bottle was introduced. She flourished after that. My son, on the other hand, latched on great and he guzzled and hurt me. After 6 weeks, I stopped. It was the best for our family as a whole. My daughter was able to feed him, as well as my husband, and I wasn't spending all of my time feeding him.

I do not believe that breastfed babies are healthier. Formula these days are full of nutrients. Both of my children had formula. My daughter had few ear infections and my son has had only 1. But my niece, who was solely breastfed, had ear infection upon ear infection.

I repeat, you have to do what is right for you and your baby. Good luck to you and may you have many more years of good eating.

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sexymama

Kurant -- I had the opposite problem with my eldest. My doctor and daycare providor both encouraged (forced is more the correct word) to formula feed as I went back to school just nine days after he was born. (Long story, basically didn't want to be a welfare mom and am happy with my decision.) If I had to do it again, I would stand up to both and pump and breastfeed. The basic message here -- do what works for you. As long as you are loving and dedicated parents (which it sounds like you are) your child will do fine.

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Kurant

Doodle, your exactly the type of response I didn't want to hear. I don't need somoene preaching to me about how great it is, and how much more somthing flourish's because of it, because both are completely untrue in lots of cases - and both are completely different for everyone. This child was planned, if I wanted to be easy and convienent, I would have just borrowed somoene elses and returned it later. It's got nothing to do with convience, it's all about the health of my child. Again, refer to the above. If you want to give advice, great. If not, preach to your neighbor. I've got nothing else to say on the subject to you.

Now, on to the good stuff - I understand the perks of nursing, so does my wife, and belive me, we will continue to try. My question was simply that of which was answered, and I appreciate it. The consultant today worked with my wife, and said it could be because the milk hasen't come yet, and he's not getting anything out. She said he was in good position, and latching, and making an attempt, but he won't stay latched, and thats why she thought that.

My fears came to rest about the whole thing when the doctor called herself a "breast-feeding Nazi" and she laughed. She also said it wasen't for everyone, and somtimes simply just doesn't work. A much different stance and approach then I got from her before. I apologized to her, and she just said "Keep at it".

I didn't mean to start a thread full of opinions. My whole point about the post, was that I simply did not want to get in an a tiff with a doctor over somthing that at this point, we've had no control over. I'm also not willing to sacrifice the health of my child, weather in dire need of food, or not. I'm not willing to take that chance.

I appreciate the responses, and we will continue to work at it, and hopefully, god willing he will be able to be breastfed.

Thanks.

Redlemon

Heh, I'd forgotten about that. Someone in our birthing class made a reference once to the 'Brestapo', which is apropos.

Speaking of milk not coming in yet, my wife's doctor recommended a herbal remedy to get things started. I don't recall the name of it, but the main side effect is that it makes your pee smell like maple syrup. I'm not a doctor, so ask your doctor if you want to figure out what it was.

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Ustwo

Hehe I thought of the breast feeding nazi's when I first started reading. My wife ran into them in her reading of the 'Letche League' website. They make it sound like not breast feeding = child abuse.

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Apache

When I was in the hospital having my first because I was breastfeeding they wouldn't give my baby a pacifier. Part of the whole nipple confusion deal (which is not always the case. My sister breastfed 3 of 4 of her children all of which also had pacifiers) But my son was constantly "rooting" and was fussy. I stuck my pinky in his mouth and he settled down. I mentioned this to one of the nurses along with "I can't set around with my finger in his mouth day and night" and she said if I wanted to give him a pacifier to do it and just not to let the other nurses see it. So my sis went out and bought one for me. At first we didn't let the nurses see it then thought, what the hell its our baby. Once we told one of the nurses she asked if we were going to give him one once we left the hospital anyway, when we told her yes she went right to the nursury and got him one that they carry (for newborns). He was never "confused" But they were willing to let him stay fussy instead of trying the pacifier.

Breastfeeding did not come easy for us either. My son would suck backwards. Instead of pulling his tounge in he would push out. My second day home from the hospital my son had gotten so fussy. He wasn't getting enough to eat and because of the way he was trying to suck it was only hurting me to the point that I think I was ending feedings before he was ready because I was so sore. I called the lactacation consultant who told me different things to try. My milk also hadn't come in and she assured me it would get easier but not to give in to feeding him formula. And went through all the advantages of the breastmilk was for him. By midnight that night my son was flat out screaming, I had gotten so upset that I had started crying too. Since it was so late I decided not to call her back but instead to call the nurses at the hospital (who when we left the hospital said we could call anytime with any questions) The nurse could hear my son screaming in the background and I was crying as well and she told me to go ahead and give him the formula. THe most important thing of course was that my son ate.
The next afternoon I called the lactation consultant back to ask her if by my feeding him formula through the night meant that I couldn't breastfeed anymore. This was my first child and I knew nothing so I was upset thinking I couldn't breastfeed anymore. She assured me that it was ok. That a lot of mothers will feed their children both, especially working moms.
That was when I really got upset. Now I know their job is to motivate and encourage you but when I had spoken to her the day before she told me not to give the formula. Then the next day she said it was ok to do so. I know she probably thought by telling me I could give formula that I would probably quite breastfeeding, then once she heard about my night she said that giving him both was perfectly fine and I shouldn't worry.
What bothered me though if she would have just told me this when we first talked I wouldn't have gotten so upset that night before and trust me I was very upset, not to metion the state my poor son was in. If she would have told me first off that if was fine to give both I wouldn't have given up and went straight to the formula because I really did love breastfeeding. I think she really should have given me ALL the info even if I did end the breastfeeding. The most important thing should have been that my son ate, whether it was from me or from a bottle. I soon got a pump and had to give him breastmilk in a bottle because he just wasn't getting it either.

Average_Joe

I can't add much in the way of advice that hasn't already been posted, but I would like to share a couple of stories.

1. My first child was breastfed until the age of 6 months, but had trouble latching for the first 2 weeks. My wife was always worried that she was slowly starving him and thought about quitting many times. It would take my son a long time to latch and would become upset, and eventually tire before finishing. My wife's nipples were chaffed and sometimes bleeding, but something wouldn't allow my wife to quit. Eventually everything turned out fine, and my son became a champion feeder. One of the problems was my wife's nipples were flat, so latching was more difficult. That eventually changed over the course of the feedings.

2. During the hospital stay for our last child, a lactation consultant visited my wife just before she was discharged. My wife explained her plan of nursing exclusively for the first month, and then mixing a bottle of formula during the night to allow her some extra sleep (she sometimes has problems with insomnia). The lactation consultant tried to convince my wife to abort that plan because formula feeding could cause problems, etc., etc... So, based on what I have been reading in these posts, it seems some professionals are conditioned to push breastfeeding only at all costs. Perhaps they are paid to do it, I don't know. My wife and I grew up in the "formula is best" days and were both bottle fed, and we're still alive and kicking.

I guess my point of these stories is: 1. stick with it! (as it appears you have), and 2. don't let anyone make you feel bad about choosing to use formula.

Hey...2 ingredients in the recipe for my favorite cookies!

doodlebird

kurant, and to all.

my most sincere apologies for how my opinion was interpreted.
let's remember, it's just that. an opinion. we all have them.

my commment about comfort and convenience was a joke.
i did try to make my light hearted tone clear with this...
i ended with a good luck.
i'm truly sorry to have upset you.
with a newborn, you don't need me making you feel bad about your choices.
i don't generally use the most flowery language.
i'm pretty much straight and to the point.
at times, my directness is seen as rude.

of course we're all parents here
and know that none of this is easy.
we're in it together.
that's why we're here. to share.

no, i didn't miss any of the info.
and no, we don't have to agree.

of course there are millions of healthy formula fed babies.
i stand by my opnion that while breastmilk IS better.
(let's not forget it's FREE! )
formula is also perfectly acceptable.
i love to hear stories like shani's.
we all know hundreds of formula fed children
who have grown into perfectly healthy adults.

and this will no doubt come out nasty,
but i mean it in the most open minded community oriented way possible.
if you don't want others' opinions, don't ask.

let me humbly add...
bottle feeding (breast or formula) was one of my first / deepest bonding experiences with my son. i encourage you to seek this however you see fit. i have no doubt you already are.

one thing that hasn't been touched on here,
and i hope Mrs. Kurant doesn't experience this...
our problem with pumping was that Mrs. couldn't get as much milk out as the baby could. so as long as she could pump two or three times for each time i fed him, then we were able to stay ahead on our bottled milk stock.

so here's my <i>advice</i>...
keep an eye on the amount your child drinks
(obviously can't be done on the breast)
and make sure the mrs. can keep up the production.
our son drank 6 to 8 oz. / feeding
and she pumped only 3 to 4 per sitting.

and just more to weigh in on the doctor issue.
i personally wouldn't change doctors after butting heads over one topic.
if you continually find yourselves at odds,
then yup, i'd find another who's more in tune with your style.

hope everyone is doing well in the post birth craziness.

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xoxo
doodle

Kurant

My wife is pumping significantly more then 3-4oz per sitting. Last sitting was close to 8oz.

Jared did start nursing much, much better in the last 2-3 days since her milk came in. However, the pains she said are much worse then they were when he was only doing a little at a time. So, she's chosen to pump more often. As we sit now, we don't have enough bottles to take all the milk she's pumped thus far. So, he's exclusivly gettin breastmilk, just not breastfed. Next best thing, I guess. My wife says the "bonding" is not worth the pain at this point.

He's gaind 7oz in 2 days, and the doctors are no longer concerned with his weight, and his color is wonderful. He's doing great. Pumping just seems to be the answer for us.

tecoyah

I have much to say about this....but will refrain from any thing other than.....PLEASE....get the child breastmilk in whatever way you can.

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Grasshopper Green

Good for you and your wife for sticking it out. I believe breastmilk is best, but it isn't always a viable option (I nursed for three months and was strictly formula after that). If you need more storage, there are breastmilk bags out there for freezing the milk, they are similar to regular baggies but have ounces printed on the side for convenience. I don't remember how long it can be frozen for, but it's awhile. Good luck to your wife for future success in pumping!!

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Derwood

I won't get into the middle of this battle except to say that breastfeeding has it's benefits for the mother as well. It helps accelerate the physical process of recovering from pregancy, helping the uterus shrink again, rebalancing hormone levels, etc.

I'm not sure why ShaniFaye would be so adamant about NOT breastfeeding, as I know no medical reasons not to. But if there are personal reasons, then she certainly had the right to do whatever she wanted to.

We were a bit paniced about our daughters lack of eating the first couple of days of her life (she wouldn't latch on, etc.) but now she's 2 1/2 and she has been at or above the 90th percentile in height and weight her whole life and has never had an ear infection, has had 1 cold, and has never been on medication.

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ShaniFaye

of course it was for personal reasons....Im not ashamed to admit that I in NO way wanted to have to watch every single thing I ingested in order to breastfeed and I didnt want to have to pump myself all the time because I knew I was going back to work, and I didnt want to have to worry about doing it out in public (cause thats not really something I'd be wild about doing), and because I was also on medication that probably wouldnt have been good for her.

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Derwood

All perfectly legitimate reasons (though you hardly need my stamp of approval on your own decisions! )

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mr sticky

You know- this sounds a little like the politics forum. I would like to go on record as saying- You do what you need to do.

You have to ask yourself. Is breastfeeding bringing me too much hardship and anxiety that it's interfering with our family life? Is it debilitating your or your wife's mood to the point of being detrimental to everyone's happiness?
Then I ask you- Is it beneficial if you give a baby good milk AND crazy parents?

Breastfeeding is a choice, and like any choice it has positives and negatives. You are the man inside. You weigh the good the bad and let no one tell you differently.

I am pro *happy mom*! If that's a breast feeding mom, that's great. If it's a bottle-feeding mom, well...that's great, too!

Happy parents=happy babies!

Oh- and congrats! Babies are awesome.

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Kurant

Well, just thought I'd post again.

3 weeks into pumping, the baby got a good 3 weeks worth of breastmilk. My wife has slowly started getting less and less over the last 6 days, and now it's to the point, we don't have a choice. A consultant put her on some herbs 2 days ago, thus far they aren't helping. We are at this point only left pumping, as my wife is unable to get the baby to latch on. So as it is now, he got 3 weeks of breastmilk, and the last 6 days, he's been getting breastmilk when able to give.

She's dried up rather oddly, and she is pumping about every 2 hours, maybe a little more, at the most, 3 hours. So, we don't really have any other options, we've seen the doc, we're doing what we need to do, and thats the bottom line. He's healthy, he's gained 18oz in 12 days, and he's doing well. It is what it is.

flamingpeach

If there was a clapping and bowing smilie here I would be using it.

Breastfeeding is one of the best gifts you can give your baby.

To the original poster:

I'm glad you and your wife at least tried - that is moer then many babies get.

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