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Old 10-19-2004, 07:11 PM   #1 (permalink)
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The Role of Education

So, this has been troubling me for a while, so I thought I'd bring it to the boards. My hope is that this becomes an open discussion, and I'll be glad if this goes far from the thread's original guiding comments.

I'm a first year teacher struggling to figure out exactly what my philosophical role as a teacher should be. In simple terms, I know that it should be somewhere along the lines of preparing kids to be adults in the world we live in. Though what that really means, I don't know.

I find myself stuck between my beliefs that there are many things wrong with our society that should be challenged, and yet having strong convictions that there are great things about our society that we should value and embrace. I don't like our rampant consumerism, lack of long-term thinking, building our social structures around divisions in wealth/class, lack of connection with the environment, the tendencies of so many kids to spend so much time to emulate characters in movies and television, among other things. On the other hand, I have a deep respect for the tradition of our country to use our government to solve problems, the belief that people can pursue life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and there are so many examples of people going out on a limb to try to make a difference in their communities, state, nation, and the world.

I'm a conflicted person, being an American that is critical of our society and sees a lot of problems, and yet loves our society. And it gets me into trouble, particularly when kids ask those random questions along the lines of "what do you think about ____ ?" It gets worse because I'm a social studies teacher, and I have some very strong opinions on politics. I don't know what to say, and I usually come off sounding like a politician that doesn't want to say anything wrong that could get me into trouble.

Unfortunately, I find myself listening to kids talk and thinking "oh my god, do people really think that?" more than I thought I would. I can't believe the amount of racist and homophobic comments that are spewed from the kids mouths in a joking matter. Each day I find it so hard to believe that kids are so disinterested in talking about the society that we live in, addressing the issues that are in the news, and sharing their opinions. I teach at-risk high schoolers and the bulk of their conversations deal with the subjects of drugs, sex, and conflict between students.

I try so hard to encourage critical thinking, active learning, and just caring about the society that we live in. Despite everything, I find myself leaning more and more towards the thinking of, "ok, what's the bare minimum amount of knowledge that the kids need to make it after high school to get a job that will support them?" It is a disillusioning process, esp. after today when several students got expelled for getting caught smoking marijuana by the superintendent. I want to believe that the best I can do is more than just get these kids through with enough skills to fill out a job application and trudge through the rest of their lives.

I'm sensitive to the socialization process that school is, but I'm not sure to how I should go about trying to affect it.


The questions then are: What should the role of education be? What should teachers do to achieve the goals of education? At bare minimum, what should students know and be able to do by the time they graduate?
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Old 10-19-2004, 09:49 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Wow, you really do sound conflicted. I'm sensing burnout at an early age, unless you can modify some of your highly idealistic tenets. I will leave your middle question to qualified educators, but I have some opinions on the other two.

It seems you have forgotten what it is like to be a kid. To be young means to be self-centered and living for the moment. Being young means you are almost expected to push limits and break rules. It also means that you will probably say and do stupid things in the process of growing up and finding yourself. Lord, if I could only take back some of the thousands of stupid things I have said and done.

Some kids never wise up, and they keep their bigoted, judgemental thinking all their lives. Others are wise beyond their years, and intellectually mature in grade school. Most of us fall somewhere inbetween. The journey from childhood to socially responsible adult shouldn't be the responsibility of our K-12 educaton system. The K-12 system should be expected to provide the basics - math, lanquage, grammer, the sciences, history, some vocational knowledge, critical thinking, and a foundation on which they can develop their own social perspective.

Their basic human values, however, should be influenced and shaped at home by the parent(s), with the expectation that most kids will eventually mature as they learn to think on their own. We know it won't happen in lots of cases, but if you dwell on the ones that don't make it, you won't last long as an educator.

Good luck, I hope you find some answers somewhere.
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Old 10-19-2004, 10:02 PM   #3 (permalink)
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First year teacher? Are you teaching Freshmen Social Studies? Do you have any upperclassmen classes at all?
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Old 10-20-2004, 07:16 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Magic
First year teacher? Are you teaching Freshmen Social Studies? Do you have any upperclassmen classes at all?
I'm teaching at a charter school for at-risk kids. Nearly all of them have problems with drugs, or have had problems with drugs. Bad home lives, etc. I'm teaching Creative Writing, Environmental Science, Civics, and World Geography there. Then I go to another school and teach 8th grade algebra, and I'm shared between two classes the period before. The charter school is filled with students grade 9-12, and all grades are in all classes.

I'm am feeling burnt out, and I know that a lot of it has to do with having no experience with teaching Creative Writing, Environmental Science, and Math. I get by, but barely. I am feeling burnt out, but I'm also wondering what kind of difference I'm really making. If basic human values should come from the parents, then where are these kids going to get it from? I find it very difficult to get into any depth with any subject because their reading levels are so low, and when things get complicated the kids tend to panic and throw up walls.

I see what it means to be a kid, and I understand it. But I also see that these kids are really hurting themselves, and they're really limiting their options for the future. I sort of feel like a babysitter that is trying to some teaching on the side sometimes, particularly because we have a problem with theft and drug use on campus. Its exhausting work, and after days like yesterday I'm trying to figure out why I'm even doing it.
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Old 10-20-2004, 07:36 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I think part of your problem is, to be blunt, you are trying to turn shit into gold. You are dealing with kids who are already in the looser category. It doesn't matter if its their fault or their parents, but sometimes you can't change someone. One thing doctors need to think about is that they are not the one with the disease. If you dwell on each case to much you get so depressed and so caught up in it that you make yourself miserable. Its a hard reality, but its what you need to survive. I think the same applies to you. Most of them will make nothing out of their lives, at best you can hope they get a basic job and stay out of trouble. Look for the few that really seem to have the desire to improve and work with them. It would be great to take a total loser and turn him into an A student, but unless they have the desire there is no way it happens.

As for worrying about their homophobic and racist comments, don't. I'm not homophobic but I couldn't tell you how many times we would say 'hey fag' or 'don't be a faggot' or whatever in high school. If they used such comments in their class work then fire away, but if they are just talking amongst themselves let it go.

As for your view of politics, if they ask, tell them. Its one thing for a flaming liberal professor to try to indoctrinate their students and fail students who don't agree with them, (and I've had a couple of those), but its perfectly acceptable to state your opinion if asked. If you want to get them critically thinking, say something that you know they won't agree with, and then ask them why you are wrong.
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Old 10-20-2004, 07:49 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I've always been more for 'progressive' thought, while it may not be truely liberal, I suppose
in a way, it is. I find it to be that change is good, but holding back some traditions can be
all right too, it's about where you're going with your ideas, rather than if they are 'radical'
or 'conservative' in their ideals.
Opinion wise, keep kids thinking, but don't force anything on them; people
usually don't change their views right away, but after a while, they may come around (I
know I do all the time, but only AFTER I'm done arguing the hell out of my wrong point.)

I've always found that my best teachers have been ones who do not just teach the
facts, and who do not just teach ideas, but a mix of both. You find that teaching your
kids this way will most likely make it click subconsciously that their ideas need to be based
on facts. And even in stuff like Geography, that you're teaching, give them 100 facts, put
50 on the test (this is a strange and quickly thought out metaphor.) Give them as much
info as they can handle, and see if they remember bits and pieces of it, rather than
everything you've ever told them.

I also feel that students should know the subject, I've been in too many classes where
we get a bazillion chapter book, and maybe cover 5 chapters. Sure, while you don't ever
have to go strictly from the book, figure out what it encompasses, and try to pass off
the information one way or another. I also figure terms are good, but never really
necessary. It doesn't matter if a city is city-manager or some other system, what matters
is what is actually going on in those systems, how they relate, and whatnot.
Structure and underlying principals of ideas/facts are usually correct, it's how you build on
them later, what you can do to change them, that I think is important.

If any of this makes sense, I hope it helps! Maybe I shouldn't start writing stuff like this
15 minutes before I have to go to class... *shrugs*
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Old 10-20-2004, 08:04 AM   #7 (permalink)
 
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interesting...i empathize with your situation, wilb...
i teach in a university and have encountered parallel questions, though i think they might work at a different level as a function of being in a university environment.

so while i can talk about my experience, which is ongoing, i am not sure how helpful it might be...

i do not remember exactly what kind of political action i thought i could carry out via teaching when i started--all i know now is that most of what i thought i could do turned out to be wrong.
maybe i was thinking in terms too big, i dont know.

i used to make more directly and obviously political arguments--now i work in a slightly different manner--usually using various texts of set up basic philosophical problems, the main one of which involves the problem of generating critiques (be that critique direct--as in THIS IS A CRITIQUE--or indirect/practical, by encouraging my students to make things, to take risks and assume a degree of responsibility for having taken them, that is hold them to a sympathetic but critical standard--by which i mean that it is not enough to simply take a risk, but that risk needs at somelevel to work, and in order to know what does and does not work, you have to develop a sense of what that might mean...for example) of a given space (say cultural space) when that space itself forms your frame of reference.

so the basic problem i try to get to is reflexivity.
this means that i can work on basic relations to the world without necessarily moving to a level that would entail filling that shift in with a particular type of information.
i understand encouraging a reflexive relation to the world to be a fundamental political act in itself.

example:
right now, i am teaching classes that combine writing, music and history.
in one of them--a history of experimental music since john cage--i am having the students do a series of writing experiments like n+7 (take a text and replace every noun with the 7th noun away from it in a dictionary) or cut-ups (which focus on procedures that will determine how the cut-up is arranged)...

the reason for these exercizes is tied to having the students do an audio project at the end of term--one based on collecting found/ambient sound processed through audio software (it matters less which one than they get access to it---which is easy enough)--the idea is to empower them, to let them understand that they can manipulate sound and do it quite well--that they can listen carefully, and thinka bout what they are listening to--all of which presupposes that they can bring to bear on the material they are interacting with a different conception of what "makes sense"...

beneath this lies the idea that they can enter into an active relation with "tradition" or "history"--that they are not simply jammed into a situation of passive repetition. what i mean by this, but rarely say, is that it is only through this active, reflexive relation can you be anything like free...that being free is a practical relation through which a relation to the social world can be developed--that is is easiest to think reflexively across a practical interaction.

i go as far as i can with the students.
i think it is political, but not in a conventional sense.
this idea is basic to me, it is what keeps me going.

sometimes i am explicit about the socialization function of the place in which we find ourselves--i raise questions of motive for being there at all, or for particular kinds of comportments (i particularly like going after the idea that being slack is a kind of revolt).

so perhaps by now you can see the problem with mapping any of this onto a high shool level--i can presuppose the process that you are engaged in furthering and work against it. yours is a different place.

thinking about it, i think the narrowing or focussing of how i understand my political action within an academic context is another element of what let me operate in it. to the extent that i do: i dislike intensely faculty culture--i went into academics as an engaging ay job the primary function of which for me was to enable me to work on music without having to rely on it to keep a roof over my head and food on the table.

what is the point of all this?
i am not sure because it is a very short version of how i managed to find a way to operate for myself in an academic context. so it does not reduce to a single lesson.

it has been really difficult for me to figure this kind of question out.
it has taken a long time.

try to be careful about burning out--when i ran into it, both a job and a marriage collapsed--i couldnt seperate personal and professional pressures any more but i nonetheless made decisions---and it was a fiasco. so take care of yourself.

another thing you talk about that is difficult is the diversity of subjects that you are called on to teach...i find and have found it really taxing to be or feel like i am constantly scrambling simply to stay a few steps ahead of the classes i am doing...in the end, i tried to work out a plan that would let me at least stay a few sessions ahead of the curve in the areas i was least comfortable---as i suspect you are finding, i found that i did not anticipate the requirement for such a plan when i started out---so i had to use vacation time to work my way ahead, and impose a kind of regimentation on preparation until i got more comfrtable and could open things up more.

i dont know if this helps. hope it does at least a little. feel free to pm me if you think talking that way would be of any use to you.
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Last edited by roachboy; 10-20-2004 at 08:21 AM..
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Old 10-20-2004, 08:11 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I agree with ustwo. It is ok to care about these kids--that's part of your role as teacher--but you have to set the boundaries for yourself also. I think part of the reason you are so conflicted is because you have some social/moral conflicts right now. How much should you care about the kids? When does caring become too detached, and defragmented? Isn't defragmentation what's happening to our society? I know you don't want to model that.

Ustwo talks about doctors, and I think doctors can be highly detached from their patients, but I guess that's one of the things they're taught to do. If you've seen "Patch Adams" (which I know is only a movie, but I think it was based on a true story), he does the opposite and is remarkable. Do you want to be remarkable? What do you expect from the kids, but I think more importantly, what do you expect from yourself?

I think that thinking about these issues and admitting them is a good first step. You can't change the world, but you can enrich peoples lives. Simply doing your job as a teacher helps. I've always looked back and admired my teachers. The role of education should always be to teach children pertinent things that they need to succeed in life, and become a role model. Now we get into the definitions of "success". For at-risk kids with unfortunate backgrounds, that might be getting them through the program and graduating. That's all you can hope for. If you want to reach out to these kids, connect with them. But don't let that interfere with your single, most important job, as teacher. Find issues to talk about that directly affects their lives, and tell them how it does. Maybe then they can see and become a little more animated in discussions.

Hope this helps. Use this thread as a sort of introspection for you, if you don't get it anywhere else.
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Old 10-20-2004, 08:18 AM   #9 (permalink)
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i know it's a blunt half-assed sort of answer, but...

just stick to the curriculum. they're kids and don't really need to know the intricacies of nebulous social issues or the philosophical implications of this or that. just make sure the kids know the fundamentals of the curriculum in and out. make sure they all know something about law, government structure, our founding principles etc.

if you teach them the basics, trusting that the foundation you laid will provoke further thought and action, then you'll have done more than a lot of teachers and will have succeeded by my measure.

props to you wilbjammin for teaching at-risk kids. a lot of teachers won't even consider what you're doing. i cant tell just by your obvious effort and concern you're doing something positive for them.
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Old 10-20-2004, 08:26 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I'm not trying to get all political on you, but pay very close attention to the next sentence:

The purpose of public education in the United States of America is to insure that the nation will not be overthrown from within.

Before anyone goes off screaming about hidden agendas, think about it for a moment. Obviously, the armed forces exist to prevent the nation from being defeated from without. But the only defense we have against an interior coup d'etat is an informed, educated, and motivated populace.

I strongly suggest you find your philosophical base for your own motivation to teach, and you need to do some research in order to find out who you are (and where you're going) as a teacher.

Democracy and Education - John Dewey
The Transformation of the School - L.A. Cremin
Privatization and Educational Choice - Myron Lieberman
Powershift - Alvin Toffler
Savage Inequality - Jonathan Kozol

Never, EVER be afraid to openly accept opposite ideas from your own to help mold your own philosophy of teaching.
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Old 10-20-2004, 09:34 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Well, the fact is they're not prepared to learn a lot. I would stick close to basic lesson plans. If basic lesson plans don't exist, I'd make them up. Basic is important because that's the most one can really expect from most students. If, at some future point, some of them perchance develop a degree of sophistication regarding knowledge, that's to their benefit. If you can teach them something about how to learn things, that's probably what they need the most.

In general though, I try to keep focused very closely on the human and interpersonal dimension. You are there together in the same room. What they can learn from you - and what they need most - is how to relate to themselves and other humans in beneficial, intelligent, sensitive, positive, and constructive ways.

Learn their names quickly, try to understand their personalities, attitudes, backgrounds, home situations, and their level of ability. Relate to them as much as possible as individual human beings. Work with them and share enthusiasm that they are learning things daily. They are. What you can do is to make sure some of the things they are learning are good things to learn.

If your expectations have more to do with what you want than what they really need, they are unrealistic expectations.
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Old 10-20-2004, 10:03 AM   #12 (permalink)
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First off, whether you realize it or not, you are making a difference, the kids probably don't even realize it, but they will eventually, and appreciate what you are doing for them.

I taught,on a volunteer basis, two nights a week at an "alternative" high school in a not so great area of NYC, for a bunch of years, most of these kids had been kicked out of every mainstream high school in the city and this was their last chance to get a high school education, the girls all were moms at very young ages, to 2, 3 or more kids, with boyfriends in jail, some of the boys were fresh out of Spofford, or other equally delightful places. Their homelives I could only imagine how awful they are (One girl I had for two years, was hospitalized for a really bad asthma attack, and I had gone to the hospital to bring her an assignment (she asked) and to just visit her, the nurse told me that this girl had been in the hospital for 3 days and her mother had never come to see her.

The fact that these kids are actually going to school, and trying to get an education says something about them, somewhere inside is the willingness to learn (YEah, I'm a Pollyanna sometimes). I don't think teaching them the bare minimum is good enough, or just giving them enough to get by, challenge them a little, some of them will actually rise to the occassion.

I've been a math geek a long time, and that's what I really wanted to teach, I took on a writing class, because it seemed easy - and the school was desperate -- (though it amused friends to no end who know how atrocious my grammar is) the writing class I got a lot out of because I could see the kids really start to change how they looked at the world, and some of the assignments I gave them, were really hokey, but they took the ideas and just ran with them.

These kids have probably had very few people believe in them, believe that they can achieve and it will make all the difference in their lives.
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Old 10-21-2004, 04:10 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Good grief! Wilbjammin asked a question about education in a philosophy forum, and I gave this extremely heavy-handed and slightly morose answer concerning the philosophy of education in America.

But then everybody else answered with stuff like "work on your lesson plans."

**here's me standing over in the "wordily chagrined" line**
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Old 10-21-2004, 11:49 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warrrreagl
Good grief! Wilbjammin asked a question about education in a philosophy forum, and I gave this extremely heavy-handed and slightly morose answer concerning the philosophy of education in America.

But then everybody else answered with stuff like "work on your lesson plans."

**here's me standing over in the "wordily chagrined" line**
I appreciate all responses. I don't have time to respond in full to what's been said so far. I will when I can.
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Old 10-21-2004, 03:45 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Well, I'd say push your boundaries as far as possible without putting your career on the line. Be opinionated, and say things that they wouldn't expect a teacher to say; I'm sure it'll give them more cause to listen. It might help to make sure you clearly state your opinions AS OPINIONS though. I've had teachers/profs where you had to sort of discern whether they were just stating an opinion, or something considered to be fact by their respective field of study.
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