sex, death and religion... in an interesting night time telly sort of way - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

lucidity · 03-04-2004, 07:49 PM

I had to use that topic. I can't ever resist the chance to quote Eddie Izzard.

The below thread really touched on some of my recent ponderings.

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...threadid=46944

I didn't want to jack the thread and wanted to hear specific comments from Christians. This is my situation:

After years and years of living the pagan life, I find myself being drawn back to Christianity. I'm relearning everything. Not sure which Denomination I am going to end up going with- if one at all. I find myself with one main struggle: sex.

I'm a fairly uninhibited woman. Couple that with an intense sex drive...well. I'm not married...a big nono when sex is concerned.

I know faith sometimes involves doing what is 'right' over what is 'easy'. I struggle with what angle this all fits in. Can anyone tell me their thoughts on this, if Christian, single and horny?

Xenomorph · 03-04-2004, 08:47 PM

I struggled and continue to struggle with pretty much the same thing you do regarding Christian faith. I'm a healthy young man and I'm horny as all hell.

The issue of sexuality pretty much drove me away from religion in my sophomore and junior years of high school. I had a girl or two completely in the bag and wanted to reap the same reward that most of my contemporaries were getting: sex. Aside from that, if I wasn't technically addicted to pornography, then I simply enjoyed it quite a bit. I knew that I'd have a difficult time accepting the Christian position regarding it.

I had comparitively little trouble accepting other Christian teachings, and if I couldn't always live up to them, I could at least acknowledge that I should try to. It is extremely easy to brand Christian sexual morals as repressive and outdated and, by extension, the entire concept of Christianity. As much as Christianity has done for me since I've again accepted it, it hasn't been convenient. No one claimed it would be.

But this is the body and mind that God created us with. Our raging hormones are a divine design. Worse yet, we've been in an unrepentant state of sexual sin for year after year. He knows that it is relatively easy to tempt us in this aspect of our lives, and forgives us every time that we fall. All we need to do is get up and try again.

Lust is merely an animal sin, not a diabolical one. It is no intelligent malice that continues to drive me into pornographic websites, but merely a distorted instinct. It's the MUCH lesser of the two evils to continue to fail in my sexual virtue than to reject Jesus because I don't believe he'll forgive me when I round second base. If anything positive, my constant sexual failing keeps my humble by reminding me that I am dependant on the mercy of God.

God drew me back after I fell away. He was waiting with arms wide open the entire time that I was bumbling around trying to pretend that all was relative and nothing mattered. He waits in the same manner for you.

I believe you're doing the right thing regarding denominations. Consider the raw teaching of Jesus Christ before you worry about such things, because compared to Christianity vs. non-Christianity, they are effectively irrelevant.

I wish you the best of luck in finding your faith. You're in my prayers.

tecoyah · 03-05-2004, 04:30 AM

Guess I am in the polar opposite. Born and raised christian, until I accepted the failings of dogma. Sexuality was always a strike against me growing up, as I was somewhat active in this regard.
I became Pagan after much research on world religions proved to me that I simply couldnt have a pure soul if I accepted one version of "God" over another. I now feel so much more peace knowing we are all correct, and sexuality is a natural and loving aspect of life. I guess I cant relate anymore to the belief that I need to feel guilt over something as beautiful and inevitable as loving another person physically, as well as emotionally.
I wish you much happiness on your path, as it is the correct one for you, or you would not be on it. My recommendation is to take the biblical version of sexuality with a grain of salt, as no god will forsake you for loving.

Thagrastay · 03-05-2004, 08:05 AM

I was a Pagan and a Hedon for many many years. I felt much the same way as you just explained, Tecoyah. But I also began to explore the things that Lucidity is questioning, and after much thought and consideration and searching and research, I made a decision to become a Christian. This was an enormous step for me and it meant changing many things in my sphere of influence. Because at the same time I became a Christian I also got sober. I am not certain if one precipitated the other or not, but they came each on the heels of the other, and I was told by those helping me recover from the devestation that my life had become from drinkling that I needed to change my playmates and playgrounds. At the time I was desperate and willing to go to any length to get relief. I did as I was told and Instead of going to the bar on Sunday Mornings, or Wednesaday Night, I began to attend a church instead. It was very foreign to me, but wonderful. I am rambling.
What I discovered, Lucidity, was that I had no boundaries when it came to sex. I believed that if I was with a woman I was supposed to have sex with her. It was almost like a requirement. When that occurred to me it was like an epiphany! I asked the people at my church to pray for me and the people at my recovery groups for suggestions and they told me to practice saying "No". At first it was difficult. But then, after a while, it got easier and easier and I began to build boundaries for myself and though I wasn't perfect at it, I also wasn't putting myself in situations that I would be having to make hard choices. The other thing they suggested was that when I was going to go somewhere that I might be tempted to break one of my own boundaries, I take someone with me. Or make a commitment before hand so that I couldn't stay and chat but would have to go and keep my appointment. My suggestion is to pray a lot and ask G*D to pick out a church for you and just start going. Then change where you hang out and with whom you associate. Remember that if nothing changes, nothing changes.

asaris · 03-05-2004, 08:29 AM

I struggle with the same problems, lucidity. Mostly -- well mostly I make it by God's grace. But I also try to remember that having sex with someone is going to harm my relationships, if not with her, than with other people I care about, and, no matter how I might feel at a given moment, if I were to given in, I wouldn't be happy with myself afterwards.

In your situation, I'd also work to make sure I wasn't in compromising situations, or in them as little as possible. You don't need to stop hanging out with anyone, necessarily, but if there are people with whom you feel it is more difficult to control yourself, then I'd avoid being alone with those people, especially if you've been drinking. And if there are situations where you find it more difficult to control yourself, avoid those situations.

Lebell · 03-05-2004, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lucidity
I know faith sometimes involves doing what is 'right' over what is 'easy'. I struggle with what angle this all fits in. Can anyone tell me their thoughts on this, if Christian, single and horny?

Been there.

Anyway, what I followed is that sex is a sacred gift and shouldn't be given away lightly.

For example, I regret the one-night stand I had many many years ago, but I don't regret the sex with the women I have truly loved and cared for over the years.

On the flip, it (or the lack of) became a major issue between me and my ex.

So is it always I sin outside of marriage? I don't think so.

Is it always Holy inside of marriage? I don't think so.

lucidity · 03-06-2004, 07:14 AM

Thanks everyone for sharing. I have some new viewpoints to think on.

Thagrastay · 03-06-2004, 08:39 AM

If I might add one more thing- I neglected before to comment on(it seems I never run out of things to say)-
What I have come to discover in the Christian viewpoint is that G*d created Sex. The Bible is absolutely LOADED with it. The book called the Song of Solomon actually made this ex-heathen BLUSH! G*d is a very sexy gentleman and that is the best word I can think of to describe Him- a Gentleman- He is not pushy or rude or bossy- He is polite and careful and He is kind and gentle and He is so very, very caring. He IS love and the intimacy that He projects and expects is wonderful. This is not to say that Everything with G*d is Sex, because it is not. But everything with G*D is intimate. That is the basis of our relationships with Him. Intimacy and Trust and Love and Care.
What I am getting at here in an exceptionally verbose way, is that He values us, and wants nothing to diminish our value. Nothing at all, and intimacy is not casual. By definition it cannot be. Therefore, He moves us, as we are able to BE moved, at our own pace, away from those things that we have indulged in, in our past that have caused us to treat ourselves with leass than intimate love and care, and He brings us into intimate knowledge of Him and His Love.
Don't worry, and I suggest that you remember that the central tenet of the Christian Faith is that Jesus has already forgiven us our sins, so it is a finished work, and all we need to do is present ourselves to Him and He will make things right FOR us.
Remember that G8D Loves you. Let Him cover the details.
Like they told me i recovery-
A. Bring your body, your brain will follow.
B. Just look for the next right thing to do.

I hope this helps.

I hope this helps.

03-04-2004, 07:49 PM	#1 (permalink)
lucidity Crazy Location: ...the space between what's wrong and right...	sex, death and religion... in an interesting night time telly sort of way I had to use that topic. I can't ever resist the chance to quote Eddie Izzard. The below thread really touched on some of my recent ponderings. http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...threadid=46944 I didn't want to jack the thread and wanted to hear specific comments from Christians. This is my situation: After years and years of living the pagan life, I find myself being drawn back to Christianity. I'm relearning everything. Not sure which Denomination I am going to end up going with- if one at all. I find myself with one main struggle: sex. I'm a fairly uninhibited woman. Couple that with an intense sex drive...well. I'm not married...a big nono when sex is concerned. I know faith sometimes involves doing what is 'right' over what is 'easy'. I struggle with what angle this all fits in. Can anyone tell me their thoughts on this, if Christian, single and horny? __________________ Faith is the daring of the soul to go farther than it can see. -William Newton Clark

03-04-2004, 08:47 PM	#2 (permalink)
Xenomorph Crazy Location: St. Louis, MO	I struggled and continue to struggle with pretty much the same thing you do regarding Christian faith. I'm a healthy young man and I'm horny as all hell. The issue of sexuality pretty much drove me away from religion in my sophomore and junior years of high school. I had a girl or two completely in the bag and wanted to reap the same reward that most of my contemporaries were getting: sex. Aside from that, if I wasn't technically addicted to pornography, then I simply enjoyed it quite a bit. I knew that I'd have a difficult time accepting the Christian position regarding it. I had comparitively little trouble accepting other Christian teachings, and if I couldn't always live up to them, I could at least acknowledge that I should try to. It is extremely easy to brand Christian sexual morals as repressive and outdated and, by extension, the entire concept of Christianity. As much as Christianity has done for me since I've again accepted it, it hasn't been convenient. No one claimed it would be. But this is the body and mind that God created us with. Our raging hormones are a divine design. Worse yet, we've been in an unrepentant state of sexual sin for year after year. He knows that it is relatively easy to tempt us in this aspect of our lives, and forgives us every time that we fall. All we need to do is get up and try again. Lust is merely an animal sin, not a diabolical one. It is no intelligent malice that continues to drive me into pornographic websites, but merely a distorted instinct. It's the MUCH lesser of the two evils to continue to fail in my sexual virtue than to reject Jesus because I don't believe he'll forgive me when I round second base. If anything positive, my constant sexual failing keeps my humble by reminding me that I am dependant on the mercy of God. God drew me back after I fell away. He was waiting with arms wide open the entire time that I was bumbling around trying to pretend that all was relative and nothing mattered. He waits in the same manner for you. I believe you're doing the right thing regarding denominations. Consider the raw teaching of Jesus Christ before you worry about such things, because compared to Christianity vs. non-Christianity, they are effectively irrelevant. I wish you the best of luck in finding your faith. You're in my prayers. __________________ The facehugger is short-lived outside the egg which normally protects it. Armed with a long grasping tail, a spray of highly-concentrated acid and the single-minded desire to impregnate a single selected prey using its extending probe, it will fearlessly pursue and attack a single selected target until it has succeeded in attachment or it or its target is dead

03-05-2004, 04:30 AM	#3 (permalink)
tecoyah Illusionary	Guess I am in the polar opposite. Born and raised christian, until I accepted the failings of dogma. Sexuality was always a strike against me growing up, as I was somewhat active in this regard. I became Pagan after much research on world religions proved to me that I simply couldnt have a pure soul if I accepted one version of "God" over another. I now feel so much more peace knowing we are all correct, and sexuality is a natural and loving aspect of life. I guess I cant relate anymore to the belief that I need to feel guilt over something as beautiful and inevitable as loving another person physically, as well as emotionally. I wish you much happiness on your path, as it is the correct one for you, or you would not be on it. My recommendation is to take the biblical version of sexuality with a grain of salt, as no god will forsake you for loving. __________________ Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

03-05-2004, 08:05 AM	#4 (permalink)
Thagrastay Crazy Location: Handrail, Montana	I was a Pagan and a Hedon for many many years. I felt much the same way as you just explained, Tecoyah. But I also began to explore the things that Lucidity is questioning, and after much thought and consideration and searching and research, I made a decision to become a Christian. This was an enormous step for me and it meant changing many things in my sphere of influence. Because at the same time I became a Christian I also got sober. I am not certain if one precipitated the other or not, but they came each on the heels of the other, and I was told by those helping me recover from the devestation that my life had become from drinkling that I needed to change my playmates and playgrounds. At the time I was desperate and willing to go to any length to get relief. I did as I was told and Instead of going to the bar on Sunday Mornings, or Wednesaday Night, I began to attend a church instead. It was very foreign to me, but wonderful. I am rambling. What I discovered, Lucidity, was that I had no boundaries when it came to sex. I believed that if I was with a woman I was supposed to have sex with her. It was almost like a requirement. When that occurred to me it was like an epiphany! I asked the people at my church to pray for me and the people at my recovery groups for suggestions and they told me to practice saying "No". At first it was difficult. But then, after a while, it got easier and easier and I began to build boundaries for myself and though I wasn't perfect at it, I also wasn't putting myself in situations that I would be having to make hard choices. The other thing they suggested was that when I was going to go somewhere that I might be tempted to break one of my own boundaries, I take someone with me. Or make a commitment before hand so that I couldn't stay and chat but would have to go and keep my appointment. My suggestion is to pray a lot and ask G*D to pick out a church for you and just start going. Then change where you hang out and with whom you associate. Remember that if nothing changes, nothing changes. __________________ "That's it! They've got the cuffs on him, he's IN the car!"

03-05-2004, 08:29 AM	#5 (permalink)
asaris Mad Philosopher Location: Washington, DC	I struggle with the same problems, lucidity. Mostly -- well mostly I make it by God's grace. But I also try to remember that having sex with someone is going to harm my relationships, if not with her, than with other people I care about, and, no matter how I might feel at a given moment, if I were to given in, I wouldn't be happy with myself afterwards. In your situation, I'd also work to make sure I wasn't in compromising situations, or in them as little as possible. You don't need to stop hanging out with anyone, necessarily, but if there are people with whom you feel it is more difficult to control yourself, then I'd avoid being alone with those people, especially if you've been drinking. And if there are situations where you find it more difficult to control yourself, avoid those situations. __________________ "Die Deutschen meinen, daß die Kraft sich in Härte und Grausamkeit offenbaren müsse, sie unterwerfen sich dann gerne und mit Bewunderung:[...]. Daß es Kraft giebt in der Milde und Stille, das glauben sie nicht leicht." "The Germans believe that power must reveal itself in hardness and cruelty and then submit themselves gladly and with admiration[...]. They do not believe readily that there is power in meekness and calm." -- Friedrich Nietzsche

03-06-2004, 07:14 AM	#7 (permalink)
lucidity Crazy Location: ...the space between what's wrong and right...	Thanks everyone for sharing. I have some new viewpoints to think on. __________________ Faith is the daring of the soul to go farther than it can see. -William Newton Clark

03-06-2004, 08:39 AM	#8 (permalink)
Thagrastay Crazy Location: Handrail, Montana	If I might add one more thing- I neglected before to comment on(it seems I never run out of things to say)- What I have come to discover in the Christian viewpoint is that Gd created Sex. The Bible is absolutely LOADED with it. The book called the Song of Solomon actually made this ex-heathen BLUSH! Gd is a very sexy gentleman and that is the best word I can think of to describe Him- a Gentleman- He is not pushy or rude or bossy- He is polite and careful and He is kind and gentle and He is so very, very caring. He IS love and the intimacy that He projects and expects is wonderful. This is not to say that Everything with Gd is Sex, because it is not. But everything with GD is intimate. That is the basis of our relationships with Him. Intimacy and Trust and Love and Care. What I am getting at here in an exceptionally verbose way, is that He values us, and wants nothing to diminish our value. Nothing at all, and intimacy is not casual. By definition it cannot be. Therefore, He moves us, as we are able to BE moved, at our own pace, away from those things that we have indulged in, in our past that have caused us to treat ourselves with leass than intimate love and care, and He brings us into intimate knowledge of Him and His Love. Don't worry, and I suggest that you remember that the central tenet of the Christian Faith is that Jesus has already forgiven us our sins, so it is a finished work, and all we need to do is present ourselves to Him and He will make things right FOR us. Remember that G8D Loves you. Let Him cover the details. Like they told me i recovery- A. Bring your body, your brain will follow. B. Just look for the next right thing to do. I hope this helps. I hope this helps. __________________ "That's it! They've got the cuffs on him, he's IN the car!"