Plan9

When do I get to outgrow this excuse? It's such a crock. I abhor feeling it.

Self-righteous vitriol. Personal pontification poison. Venom that I spit onto the world to defend my moments of weaknesses and my character flaws.

When do all the explosions and gunfire and mortar attacks I wish hit their intended target go away? Why didn't both locations of "the war" mean anything?

When does the damage of a your-everything partner leaving you alone in a situation like that go away? Why did my wife leave me?

How do you "get better"? How do you heal? Somebody say time. What a bullshit bandage.

When does life make sense again? Is this what it is to be an adult?

I am doing what I need to do to be successful in life... college degree, apartment of materialistic greatness, trendy vehicle, rapid progression through karate and MMA, awesome cell phone plan, IDPA training, bootcut jeans, readying for a marathon, and a roll of duct tape (just in case).

Anybody else feel like this? I don't want to feel this excuse anymore.

There are no good excuses. Only reasons; motivators... things to embrace.

This isn't a motivator. This is my wound, my great internal burden.

I need to lance this boil. Truth and reality and time don't seem to help.

"It's not fair." I know it's not fair. Fair is a dead kid on the side of the road. Fair is 18 hours of driving in 120 degrees while wearing a Kevlar sweater.

I wish I could be religious.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Willravel

Many times it can be a good excuse, but it's up to you when it comes to deciding when it is or isn't appropriate anymore. I can't count how many of my friends are in the desert right now, sound asleep, worried about tomorrow. I don't want them over there, but I understand why they went. I understand why they signed up, and I understand that it put them in an indescribable, unrelatable situation.

If you feel like it's holding you back, then maybe you should reexamine your philosophy about this stuff. I wish you the best of luck, and it might help to keep talking it out.

tecoyah

Shit Happens.....All we can do is try not to step in it.

Seriously, we can seldom control what happens in this life. We are in complete control however, of how we react to these things. There is a chunk of reality we simply need to put up with, and another piece we create.....focus on the parts you make rather than allowing the rest to make you.

/end psychological ramble

Johnny Rotten

Well, there some things you can do. I apologize if they sound cheesy, but sometimes the simplest advice can be pretty helpful, so:

Go out and socialize. Meet new people, make new friends; play some pick-up basketball, shoot some pool, people-watch at a coffee shop, get yourself a canine companion and take him or her for walks in the park. Go to a baseball game with some friends; take a road trip; go to a state you've never been to before and eat some food you've never had, like shrimp gumbo in New Orleans or a genuine New York City thin-crust pizza (or a Chicago deep dish made in Chicago).

You might also want to take a vacation in Europe or southeast Asia. Go see things like the Sistine Chapel, the Louvre, and the Red Light district in Amsterdam.

__________________
"The idea that money doesn't buy you happiness is a lie put about by the rich, to stop the poor from killing them." -- Michael Caine

Push-Pull

I wish I could add more to this, but it sums up what I was thinking very nicely.
I do wish you the best of luck and Godspeed in finding your way.

__________________
"No laws, no matter how rigidly enforced, can protect a person from their own stupidity." -Me-

"Some people are like Slinkies..... They are not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs." -Unknown-

DAMMIT! -Jack Bauer-

Baraka_Guru

You don't need to be religious to consider that maybe what is "needed" for a successful life isn't what you may think. You might be missing something if you have all of these things and still feel the way you do. No, you don't need to be religious, but you do need to be mindful. Maybe you need the time to think about what suffering you've witnessed and experienced without distractions. This way you can come to terms with it and move on. Many of us (myself included) use distractions to avoid doing what is difficult; in most cases, what is difficult are the things that we cling to which cause us harm. Only by confronting it, understanding it, and then letting go can we begin to feel happy again.

I wish you the best in your difficult time. And always remember, you are never alone.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Cynthetiq

acceptance of your situation starts the healing process.

acceptance of your characters flaws instead of defending them starts the healing process.

acceptance of YOUR part in all the situations you have found yourself in helps your own self understanding and progress to healing.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Plan9

Ooops. My bitterness and sarcasm didn't come through on the important parts.

Oh, well. Yeah, I'm doing fine. Just another grand bit of rhetoric.

I'm not a hermit. I go out to bars with my friends and ogle college heifers. I have plenty of hobbies to occupy my free time.

It is the feeling that I want to eliminate, the bitterness-goggles that sometime don themselves.

Edit: Oh, yeah... the doing of the sex wouldn't hurt either. Good for morale.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

noodlebee

I heard that some apathy can be a good thing to use temporarily when you think too much or care too much. Right now, I don't know how true this is. It seems to work for an old friend but we grew distant so I cannot ask him more about why or how it works.

It doesn't seem you want to be religious, but spiritual or maybe some internal goal to arrive.

Besides apathy, you can put yourself in an uncomfortable and new situation like sky-diving or visiting a squatter area. There is always something to learn when you are uncomfortable, both about yourself and about what is around you.

Demeter

If you keep looking for negativity in your life, you will indeed find it.

Life is tough, it sucks. We get let down and hurt continually. Unfair stuff happens. Other people seem to get all the breaks. Everything seems to go to pot all at once.

The way you perceive all of this is how you feel about it. If you see letdowns instead of experience and further opportunity, if you see pain instead of the fleeting bits of happiness, if you see evil instead of all the salvation and kindness, yeah, everything will look and feel like crap.

I'm not religious, but that doesn't mean I can't have faith that people are wonderful, or that there's something I can do to make things in the world a little better for someone, at least. It doesn't mean my time, my life is a wasted existence.
In fact, not being religious should nudge you to embrace this one ride we have. You have to drink in all the good, warm, comfy, secure, perfumed, harmonious experiences you can. Because there is no re-do.
Learn to appreciate the small comforts you have. Learn to appreciate you have people to socialize with, that you have the freedom to speak your mind, that you can aspire and achieve, and change your mind, and enjoy a beer.
Be all that you can be. Enjoy life.

__________________

I am not bound to please thee with my answers.
William Shakespeare

Plan9

Wow, you just said BE ALL THAT YOU CAN BE! Haha! (gives you $20 for being corny)

Jesus Huckaboo Christ! Please stop suggesting that I "try skydiving" here... all this adrenalin junkie stuff has been done! God, my knees sound like somebody snapping 2x4s on a rainy day. I was a paratrooper for the Ahh-Me.

I have jumped out of four times as many planes as I have landed with in the last four years... with a machine gun on my leg, 100 pounds on my back, walking through a door at 1000 feet into the pitch black darkness. I have no issues with bravery or trying new things. Trust me. Planes, choppers, onto rock hard runways, into freezing water, 100 degree days, 30 degree nights, rainstorms, Hallmark card sunshine... I don't even get a reaction to most of these activities anymore, I just do them without getting any kinda reward rush. I feel cheated when I go to Six Flags and the coaster only does 75!

I've learned to appreciate my life. More so than most. I just spent the entire year of 2006 not living it, instead playing watch dog and den mother to a bunch of teenagers with automatic weapons. I just don't want to appreciate it alone. Life is too short to spend alone. I suppose I'm just cranky.

Synopsis: I just generally hate women right now. I hope it goes away. Turns out: Divorces suck. Being a civilian takes getting used to more so than I thought.

(heads off to enjoy a Rogue Deadguy beer)

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

noodlebee

Sky diving was one suggestion to my main idea "put yourself in an uncomfortable and new situation". What about visiting squatter area? Talking to people who live there? I don't know you well enough to know what is uncomfortable for you. Don't pinpoint the example instead of the main idea.

Plan9

Oh, I know. I'm just cranky. I broke my finger fighting last night.

Gah-dammit.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Supple Cow

Dude, why don't you just get over it?




(Easier said than done, I know.)

shesus

Sounds like you are/have followed all the 'rules' and are still getting shit on.

I understand completely.

I don't have an answer for you.

__________________
Whatever did happen to your soul?
I heard you sold it

Choose Heaven for the weather and Hell for the company

debaser

Go back to the fucking desert.

No really.

I'm in the same boat as you, and I often consider just going back. I was good at what I did there, and I didn't have to put up with the petty bullshit that comprises everyday life stateside.

Who knows though, you may have already burned that bridge. Eventually you will become soft, just like everything that bothers you. You will co-exist. It doesn't take time, just apathy.

__________________

Willravel

Compromise isn't always the product of apathy, debaser. Sometimes compromise is about personal growth. Living the reality that not everyone is a friendly or an enemy is important, for example.

debaser

Compromise on some things ONLY comes from apathy. It's a matter of prioritizing things. When you are in combat, your priorities are truly in the right place. When you return to the 'States they stand in stark contrast to the things this society holds important. There may be a way other than apathy, but I certainly can't think of a way to "expand my horizons" to the point where I care what happens to Paris Hilton, much less think that it merits more attention on the news than the deaths of American servicemen in OIF/OEF.

Bitterness gives way to apathy, the state most Americans live their whole lives in.

__________________

Willravel

We're arguing glass half empty and glass half full. We're both right.
Your priorities are given to you through the command structure.
You ahve to make your own priorities, and some people are shitty at that. That's the way it is. I, personally, try to lead by example. It's optimistic, sure, but it's better than doing nothing. For example, and keeping with your Paris Hilton comment, I posted this response in the Paris Hilton thread.

I'd die to bring our troops home.
I'd argue that "many" should be replaced with "some" in your statement. There's no real way to know how many people are apathetic, or who's definition of apathy should be used. dksuddeth would consider me apathetic about guns, but I'm not apathetic about many things.

Plan9

WARNING, WARNING: SELF-RIGHTEOUS GI JOE TALK DETECTED!

Debaser,

As you well know, the military is a grand crusade, testing the manly virtues, the intestinal fortitude, and shaping personal hardness. I saw you were in DCUs, so I assume you're not some wet-ear ACU baby who's only seen Brown & Root chow, shiny M1114s, brand new MBITRs, and 24/7 chopper support. As you also probably know: the real casualties of that crusade are time and relationships back home.

I was damn good at what I did in uniform, but at the end of the day? All I did was keep a bunch of rowdy kids together while we spent endless nomadic months rolling around the desert digging up roadside bombs that should have killed us, getting shot at by people who might have thought we were the Russians coming back for round two, and not being given permission to return fire by a command structure that was more interested in round counts that body counts. The only thing that ever mattered was keeping joe alive.

I miss being a paratrooper, but I think I miss the idea of the Army more than the reality. The reality of it? Stupid ass games. How many days out of the four years were good? Maybe a dozen. I shoulda put in my SF packet when I got back from OIF in 2004 instead of doing the joe-wrangler NCO thing.

I was militant and disciplined before I entered the military. I will be militant and disciplined for the remainder of my life. I am not a soft person by nature. I don't worry about that. I didn't need a O5 to tell me that I'm a Sergeant. Some of us grunts are born Sarge and just wait to get the paperwork.

(/bullshit)

I'm glad I'm a civilian. Its more high speed than the military, anyway.

WillRavel: You shouldn't offer to die to bring the troops home. We already offered to go over there and die when we enlisted. That's how the game works.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Willravel

Had it not been for a heart defect, I would be in the military right now, possibly in Iraq. My understanding of joining up isn't about protecting oil interests and being a pawn of corporate interests. My understanding is that joining up is about the honor of serving the interests (mainly maintaining the safety of the civilians of the US, and following the Constitution and UCMJ. It's about preventing or fighting the next world war and protecting us and our allies from those who would prey on them in a military sense.

Soldiers in Iraq aren't being soldiers, they're being a corporate enforcement army. Many of them have good intentions, but their being in Iraq is just as wrong as us being in Vietnam was. Did you know that Katrina military (including National Guard) response was impaired because our troops were in Iraq? I can't imagine a worse military defense situation.

My grandfather was a career military officer who believed in the honor of the military. He was against Vietnam and Gulf War 1. I know if he were alive today, he'd hate this war and want our service men and women home.

Plan9

But you're a good guy. I can't say that about a lot of people in uniform.

The Army isn't full of heroes. Sometimes (mostly?) it is an adult day care center for retards who need someone to shout orders at them all the time.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Willravel

Heh. You're allowed to say that because you joined up. I still think it takes courage to defend one's country, and many soldiers want to defend their country. You're weirding me out, though, because I'm usually the one saying that the soldiers aren't following the UCMJ and are breaking the UN Charter by not refusing the order to deploy in Iraq. It's nice to defend them once in a while.

Some are bad seeds, obviously (warning, NSFW), but many are there to do the right thing.

Do you mind if I ask, for the sake of the intended thread topic, why you joined up?

debaser

Those weren't the priorities I was talking about...

My point was that the only way to get along in a soft society without friction (which is what you are bitching about) is to go soft yourself. Hard people don't get along well in this country anymore. That is why relationships fail, most spouses lack the perspective gained from your experience, not to mention the patience to work out the differences.

As for Army BS, I was an NCO for years before going to the dark side. I thought I could change things from above easier than below. Guess what, you can't. Now I'm the one that sounds bitter, but believe me I haven't stopped trying yet. I put in my packet a month ago, I head to selection in April.

By the way, will, you realize that those aren't US soldiers in those pictures, right? Wrong uniform.

__________________

Willravel

I'm sure you understand that 1) this thread is about soldiers, not just US soldiers and 2) US soldiers are susceptible to corruption just like any other person.

debaser

Don't get so defensive, man. Yes I do realize that some soldiers are dirtbags, but the link you posted says:
For that matter, why did you post a link in the first place? Did you think people would not belive that some soldiers are turds? Or could you just not pass up the chance to spread this pablum?

__________________

Willravel

I'm sorry. This thread is confusing my general position on the troops. Maybe I should lay it out:
Many military officers, out of reasons like honor, sign up to protect their country and serve it's people and laws. Sometimes, the government they serve uses and abuses them and things can go badly. They can either choose to follow out of duty to government, or stand up out of duty to law and the people. The US military in Iraq have the decision to make: Bush or law. Even if they make the decision I don't agree with, Bush, I still like to think they are doing it because they believe it's the right thing to do and that they believe that they are sacrificing for what they believe in. I can respect that, at least. It's like me and many conservatives on TFP; I may not agree with them, but I respect them for being diligent in what they believe to be their duty.

I hope that clears it up for you. Typing it out has helped me a bit.

debaser

I see where you are coming from, and I respect your views. However, in this case Bush and the law are one and the same. You won't find anyone who feels more strongly that the war in Iraq is a mistake than me. This point is irrelevant. Bush is the CIC, we go where he says to, period. The most basic duty of the military is to follow the legal orders given it by the chain of command, which is ultimatly the voting citizens of the country.

The military is reponsible for jus in bello not jus ad bellum.

This is getting a bit far afield. Why not start a new thread...

__________________

Willravel

I hope not. Breaking the Constitution, UCMJ, or any treaties that the US has signed is illegal, whether the President wants you to or not. Your allegiance to the President is commendable, but he/(she?) is not the ultimate authority. If President Bush made the determination that you should be quartered by civilians during a time of peace, he would be giving an unconstitutional order. You would be required to disobey that order. Similarly, the invasion of Iraq was in direct violation of the UN Charter, which is a legal US treaty. Since this treaty does not override any part of the Constitution, it is 100% legal. So, by my understanding, a military officer has not only the right, but the duty to refuse the order to deploy in Iraq.

The Germans chose Hitler to be their leader, but I'd not want our military to unquestionably follow him.
Justice in war and not laws of war...well it's not that cut and dry. You're right, I don't want to run off with the thread. If you want to continue elsewhere, I'll follow.

Invalid Comfort

There is a lot of talk of soft/hard, fitting in with society, and generally just how shitty it is on a daily basis(war or no war).

Crompsin, this is my message to the thread.

A victim makes himself a victim. By reading the bitterness, it's just that. Let it go. I may be young, but I understand that life is what we make it. I was able to come to that understanding by following some doctrines of Buddhism. It may seem newagey or whatever, but it works. Happiness is like respect, it's earned. It takes a lot of work. I have the rest of my life ahead of me, and I will spend everyday of it living to be happy. I think happy thoughts, I live happy thoughts.

There is some truth to the law of attraction; you get what you pay for.

Shauk

watch fight club cromsin, I don't care if you've seen it before, watch it again.


aside from all the club mayhem sillyness in the movie, thats one movie that taught me to learn to let go. Mental hangups or physical hangups. I dunno, may not be something you'd view as a philosophy to apply to your life, coming from one such as me, a member of the soft civilian underbelly, but, thats my advice and there you have it.

Plan9

Invalid Comfort:

Buddhism is for people who haven't seen dead bodies stuffed with explosives and turned into human landmines. What does your religion say about that?

Edit: It also might be for uppermiddleclass whitebread folks who think their SUV will take them down the path to emptiness. In the words of Flava Flav: F*ck-a-Buddhist... what are they gonna do? They don't even get angry.

Shauk:

You should get a copy of George Romero's Bruiser. It has a better theme and no Brad Pitt.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Baraka_Guru

A lot, actually. Buddhism is prominent in countries such as Vietnam, China, and Tibet--countries that aren't exactly known for their long history of peace and prosperity, especially towards Buddhists specifically. You'd be surprised to know what sort of trauma Buddhists have had to endure at cruel hands. Consider the case of Palden Gyatso. There are countless other cases like this. Also, Thich Nhat Hanh, a Vietnamese monk, has much to say about war, since he's lived through it.

Before you make a judgement on Buddhism, please first understand that it is one of the most "non-religious religions." To understand this paradox, think of it this way: Buddhists are most concerned with truth through knowledge and experience. Dogma only gets in the way and is delusional.

If anyone wants to explore why we are miserable, Buddhism can at least offer an explanation even though it offers so much more. There are many introductory books that speak of Buddhism in a modern Western sense. Please read at least one of these before making a judgement. Flava Flav isn't the best start, I don't think. And don't let middle-class poseurs influence a philosophy that has been successful in transforming lives for hundreds of years. They do the same to yoga, but that's another story.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Plan9

Oh, stop being an adult here. I'm busy being pissed and slamming stereotypes.

Baraka,

(resigned sigh)

Religion is a useless venture for those of us in search of logic and reason to life's little issues. I've tried numerous times to find an inner focus that wasn't myself. Christian churches. I've tried to listen and hear something other than my heartbeat and inner voices and never felt any different.

Generally... I just don't care about the external world. Solipsism has wormed its way into the texts of my soul library... telling me that the self matters because the self is the only tangible thing in this world at this point.

Fear and distrust and anger and sorrow have made me a tremendous fool.

I know that I'm a walking biodegradable mass with too much free time, but it doesn't matter. Not much matters.

Life's motto: Get some, go again.

My purpose is to better myself, get the job, get the girl, get some, go again.

Peace is forward progress.

DISCLAIMER: Yes, I fully realize this is like trying to cure a headache with a plastic spoon.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Willravel

Hypothetical conversation:
Someone: Did you see Superman Returns? It was alright. I...
Crompsin: No, I missed that one.
Someone: Oh? It came out in 2006, It was pretty big. Were you busy?
Crompsin: I was in the @%$&# desert! Where the hell were you?
Someone: ...

See? It can be okay to have that attitude because it can be funny.

Plan9

See, that's funny... but I'm not like that. Although I might use it as a line sometime in a bar.

I was just referring to relationships. Really just my failed marriage. No closure.

I don't pull the Desert No-Shit card on everything. That's just pathetic.

I suppose I have a gloomy sense of humor. I like cynicism and bitterness. Facetious people, sarcastic / sardonic people. Just how I am. I laugh a lot, though.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Willravel

If you think that the attitude is wrong, then it's wrong. If you don't, then it's fine. I can't imagine explaining to someone how to take being in Iraq. I've been to the ME before, but obviously not in a military function. Isolation from family and friends, being around people who may want to kill you, having to form a family with the other soldiers around you; it's a singular experience and different people deal with it in different ways. It's not supposed to be easy. Some people can deal with it quickly and move on, though it's very possible that such people are squelching their pain. Some people take quite some time. My Uncle was in Vietnam and part of him will always be dealing with it, though he's a happy healthy guy today.

Do what you have to do. Mourn. Get pissed. Hang out with friends. Be alone. Whatever you need to do to get to the other side, so long as it isn't destructive.

Plan9

Thanks, bro. I think you get me... and that's enough.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Invalid Comfort

Break a leg, choose the right path. The only way to move is forward. Hurry up and wait.

Plan9

"Hurry up and wait." is the only real option.

Everything else is a perspective / opinion.

It's like Henry Rollins chants:

Instructions: Remain calm.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."