ShaniFaye

So I just saw a commercial for a product that is touted as a personal tracking device. Of course it went thru all the "good" things it was for...older people getting lost...your kids being out and having car trouble etc.

My question is this....would you as a parent use something like this to keep tabs on your child at all times....such as being out with friends or on a date to see if they were actually where they were supposed to be or would you see this as an invasion of your privacy? I can see on one side how this would be a good thing ie if your child was abducted you'd know where they were....but I think back to how many times I didnt go where I told my parents I was because they would have forbid me to go (yes as a parent now I understand their concerns lol), but it would be more like...Mom, Im going to Hopes house, and I would...but then hope and I would leave to go to beverly's house (not real names lol) because my mother didnt want me hanging out with that particular person.

I would like to think my relationship with Amanda will be such that she wont have to lie to me, but I know at some point it will happen). I just dont know if yet if the guise of "safety" is enuff to warrant something like this.

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aberkok

If you love someone, set them free! If the goal is to develop an atmosphere of mutual respect, and you succeed, then she won't lie to you. Of course even the best parents get lied to and that's a part of growing up...both for the child and the parent.

Let me put it this way: a tracking device might help keep tabs on a kid, but is it any kind of solution to the underlying problem? I personally wouldn't use this device if I had kids.

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genuinegirly

a cell phone is bad enough! no tracking devices! please!
aaaaaaaak
this world becomes more Orwellian every day.

LET PEOPLE HAVE THEIR FREEDOM!!!*

*this is not a parsonal attack. Feel free to voice your opinion either way. I could be pursuaded to change my opinion. thanks!

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cyrnel

Yes, when they're young, no problem. The early years have more to do with safety and teaching than with friendship. Once they hit 12-14 or whatever's appropriate for each child I'd say it's time to make the leash voluntary and based on trust. Some children will feel more secure. Others won't want to touch it.

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maleficent

Even if this was on little kids, I don't like it - it's a parent's responsibility to know where their little one is - they shouldnt be relying on technology to do that for them.

Teen agers- i'm sure most teens could figure out how to disable or trick it - there's probably be 1000 websites up with instructions... if you can't trust your kid, you've got a bigger problem than an electronic gadget is going to solve.

Now, for years I wanted one of these things for my boss. he had a habit of disappearing when we needed him the most...

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Willravel

Never. I know where my daughter is at all times and when she's old enough to go out on her own, I will have taught here everything I could so that she can be responsible for herself. I'll always be there for her, but a tracking divice is very much authoritarian.

fresnelly

No. We're doing our best to teach our son independence and the responsibility that comes with it. That takes trust on our part, which would be severely undermined by such a device.

I also think it's the kind of device that subtley fosters paranoia and fear in the same way as heavy-duty home security systems.

I can only imagine an older child would resent it.

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cyrnel

Certainly, to augment common sense, not replace it. There's always the temptation to rely on tools or helpers and lower one's guard, so I'll admit that's a a danger here.

Still, the best training and intentions only go so far. I can remember several trips to the theatre with a dozen little ones that would have ended in much less of a CF had we a way to locate the wide-eyed bundles of curiosity. Turn it into Disneyland and I'm a guaranteed customer. The cost would more than pay for a single ten minute stress event.

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There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

Charlatan

I think Mal hit the nail on the head with her comment.

People are lazy and this will give people the comfort to be even lazier about raisign their kids.

I will concede that Cyrnel is right. Sometime it is easy to lose a kid in a crowd. That's just part of being a parent. I can see that it would be a good tool if it were a temporary thing (rather than a permanent implant) to use on a toddler when visiting somewhere like Disneyland. Kids get lost all the time.

But for daily life people really need to rely less on tech and more on spending time with their kids.

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Elphaba

I support the use of this device for people suffering from dementia. Too many show up in our local paper as lost. Do we assume that their guardians were irresponsible? Not that I know of. These were adults that did the unexpected and walked away.

Our paper recently reported an abduction of a three-year-old from the home of her own grandmother. Fortunately she was found about 24 hours later via the Amber Alert. I think she would have been found much sooner had she had that little device. In this case, the child was snatched by her father who was under a restraining order. Also, the most attentive parent may have that momentary distraction that allows her child to be drawn away.

Using this device on a teenager simply to monitor their activities is just wrong. Teens will test the limits of their parents just for drill, but I would hope that the parents have instilled all of the good sense noted by others above. Even an out of control teen would have that device removed quickly, as Mal pointed out.

If there is mutual trust between the parent and teen, the device might provide a level of personal security and/or safety that both would appreciate.
Your teen is going to a school sponsored trip to our nation's capitol? Honey, please wear this so that you are never lost. Does anyone argue against that?

As with everything, there are appropriate and inappropriate uses. When I was a toddler, my mother kept me on a leash. Appropriately so, because I could be drawn to anything that caught my interest and I once toddled into the street in a second of inattention. Was that wrong for her to use that extra insurance that I never left her side? Heh...I'm not squashed like a bug, because I was never given a second chance until I was old enough to "look both ways before crossing the street."

just my 2 cents

Baraka_Guru

I've always had mixed feelings on this kind of suggestion. Isn't using technology an effective method of fulfilling the responsibilities of a parent? Medicine, hygiene, gas/electric home comfort, baby monitors, car seats (cars!)--aren't all these "technologies" employed to provide the means of good parenting? Are using these technologies a sign of laziness?... I know, these are far different from tracking devices, but still... In the nineteenth century and earlier--and even well into the twentieth century--young, unmarried women were granted access into the public sphere without their parents only if they were with an escort. Cell phones with built-in tracking features (the kind you can't disable) will be the escorts of the twenty-first century.

Things have changed. Parents no longer have the time to be the parents of the old days... can you imagine that it was once "normal" to have only one parent in the workforce while the other was, well, a parent? I'm proud of the progress we've made with the women's liberation movement, but what have we gained with women's equal share of the work outside of the home? Wouldn't it have been great if it meant that the father could cut his workweek in half because, hey, the mother is now sharing the load of the out-of-home labour... now -both- parents can be, well, parents.... you know.... share the load in both realms.... wishful thinking!

Now we have two parents each with a 40+ work week (generally), which means that many hours of "traditional parenting" are being diverted into earning an income. There's no going back because a dual income is often earned in deterrence of poverty.

Using tracking devices, while for some may be lazy, for others is a solution to a problem (and can be bought in exchange for their labour). I hear what's going on with teens these days; my wife is a 7th and 8th grade teacher and I know people with teenage children--personal tracking devices are yet another technology in a fast-paced, fragmented world that has become dependent on communication tools to foster any semblances of community. If we have problems with the technology, realize that there are deeper problems at its roots.

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Deltona Couple

I have to agree with those that support this tracking device. I have a friend who was working for a company that designs them, and figured what better way to advertize than to give them to his kids. About a year later he was talking to us about how interesting the devices were, and that he really doesn't use it anymore, as his daughter was now 12 and he didn't want her feeling like he was spying on her. Not long after that conversation, his daughter was abducted by a known pedophile, who had recently been released for serving his time. His priors? over 5 counts of kidnapping and rape, and 1 count of attepted murder of a 11 year old girl. She was abducted in front of her friends, in their front yard, that's how brave the sicko was. Within MINUTES the company was contacted, and they were able to talk to the local police, and gave them GPS locations as he was driving out of town. They caught up with him less than 15 minutes after she was taken. What else did they find in his trunk? rope, duct tape, and a SHOVEL! *shivers*
Now I know we all say that kids have a right to their privacy, and I agree they do, but in TODAYS world, what is more important? Privacy? or their safety?

sapiens

Your story sounds apocryphal, but I suppose it could happen. It's a slippery slope with these kinds of tools. Maybe if we all had similar devices implanted, the government could find us if we were ever kidnapped or got lost down a well, or were in a cave-in at the old abandoned mine... I would never use one of these devices on my child, but I could see its use on toddlers and small children in an amusement park or a similar context.

The whole idea reminds me of the child leashes I see some kids wearing at the zoo, the mall, etc. I loath those things. Don't put your child on a leash, s/he is not a pet. If your child can't listen to directions and stay near you, maybe you should hold your child's hand.

Ample

My nine year old went to 6 flags in NJ with one of her friends today. I trust her friend's parents but not as much as I trust myself or my exwife with the care of her. Its a big park and one could get separated easily.

Fast forward seven/eight years when she wants to date. I'm sure I can trust her, but can I fully trust the guy that she is with? I could de the whole shotgun routine, but kids nowadays dont get intimated like they use to, besides I was a teen once. I know exactly what is going through their head.

I just dont see the harm in using it in certain circumstances to keep our little one extra safe, and maybe a little piece of mind for myself.

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Ustwo

The problem with this isn't that its wrong, or bad, or about trust even. You teach children as best you can but they are kids and kids are stupid by default. Its why we have laws about contracts and sex before 18, they can't be trusted to make the right judgement.

The problem as I see it is for kids with insane parents. We all know that type of parent, maybe you had one, and the ability to not 'escape' now and then will make it hard for these kids to enjoy life and most likely hate their insane parents as soon as they are free of the electronic leash.

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freeload

Couldn't agree more. In Legoland (Denmark) we hired some bracelets for the kids - with a simple text message we would immediately get the correct coordinates on a map, and they would not be allowed to leave the park with any other than me. That system should be made available a lot of other places to, like malls and amusement parks

A few years ago we "lost" our 4 year old daughter at a mall when she decided to play hide-and-seek, crawled under a coat display in a corner and decided she needed a little nap She was gone for 20 minutes - but at that time I would have loved to be able to know where she was!

In the everyday life I trust them and does not want to invade their privacy and show my lack of trust, but go somewhere crowded? - I would love to be able to track them down!

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sapiens

God, I would have had a heart attack!

I can understand that.

cookmo

Ok, so I hail from "dysfunction junction", and what I am about to tell you will be an extreme case of privacy invasion, but I feel I must put it out there.

When I was 12 years old I was going to my bestfriends 16th birthday party. I went and we were having a good time, and then my dad showed up with this "tape". On the tape was recorded phone messages of our conversations, things about her smoking pot and having sex. He played the tape for her parents, and she was grounded for a year. Why he sadistically chose to do this on her 16th birthday I will never understand.

From then on, till I moved out the day I turned 18, all of my phone conversations were taped. There were also voice activated recorders in the house, and serveilance cameras.

It got to the point that I really didnt give a fuck anymore, and I would call my friends and we would talk about doing bogus stuff like smoking crack, Hooking on the corner, and whatever crazy shit we could think of, just to fuck with him.

Now in my adult life I am paranoid. I have major trust issues, and trust no one. If you choose to monitor your children, do it in a loving way, and be honest about it

Elphaba

Cookmo, I can't think of anything more invasive and cruel than a father doing this to his child, and another man's child during a birthday party. It's beyond my comprehension.

See my post #10. It has nothing to do with degrading a child as if he/she were a pet. Zoo's and Mall's? Perhaps the child was too young to be there to begin with? I don't wish to dismiss your opinion, but since I don't have children, it seems fair to ask you whether you do?

analog

George Orwell would be proud.

How about just locking them in their room until they're 18? That's safest.

The major problem with your story is what I call the lightning factor. Shit is going to happen. You can't provide for every eventuality... and even if you prepare for anything life may throw at you, there's always going to be the unpredictability of "the world". At any time, anything could happen to you.

This is not to say that some basic precautions shouldn't be taken, like wearing a seatbelt when you're driving or using ropes and such during rock-climbing.

But when you start dissecting particular events and saying "this terrible thing would have happened if not for," you get into the territory of blaming every near-miss on good planning. To that end, you'd walk around wearing full body armor, padding, GPS tracking devices, flotation devices, parachute, oxygen tank and wetsuit...

The thing is, at what point do we say "the likelihood of x happening is about as likely as randomly being hit by lightning" and just realize that certain precautions are way, way overkill?

Think about this for a little second: what if, instead of that girl, the girl standing next to her had been taken and (forbid) perhaps lost? Lightning, man. Shit's gonna happen. That doesn't mean you make a person live their life in fear, or fettered.

Deltona Couple

The problem with this is that in TODAYS society, the ods of a child being abducted is MUCH higher than the chance of getting struck by lightning. I am by no means endorsing live constant tracking of our children. But im my OPINION, my child's safety is more important to me than her privacy. Until she is 18, she is a child, plain and simple. I may do things that she doesn't like (which honestly, she rarely says I am unreasonable) but I am not here to be her friend, I am here to be her PARENT and her PROTECTOR.
Oh, by the way, I asked her about the tracking thig? and she told me she wouldn't mind having it at all, because " I suck at maps and directions, so If I am driving around and get lost, you can find me!"
lol

analog

I would also take this opportunity to point out that only 100 years ago, children were only children until about the early teens, maybe 14. 18 years as a benchmark for adulthood, has only come into play since about that time. Prior to that, it was perfectly commonplace for a young woman of age for marriage to be 15. (Also, I was speaking figuratively about the likelihood of being hit by lightning, not actually meaning the pure statistical comparison)

I can also (and I'm not picking on you, Deltona) only take so much of the "in today's world" and "in this day and age" crap before I want to suffocate someone. Everyone wants to blame something, when the truth of the matter is- you have only the person committing the crime to blame. Regardless of the statistics you use to blame society at large, there are always going to be psychos, perverts, etc.

To further pick at the abduction example above- the guy grabbed her in broad daylight when she was with a group of friends. Society did not conspire to instill pedophilia rape lust and murder in that person. Regardless of the rape/abduction statistics, and your feelings about "society", that guy was fucked up and was going to take a girl that day, no matter what. Society did not tell him to get a shovel and duct tape and a little girl.

While the chances are slightly better now than they were some years ago, I repeat my initial statement: At what point do you stop trading off security for privacy/freedom? I think this specific device crosses that line.

ngdawg

Excuse me, I take offense here. I can replace a pet. I can NOT replace my kids.
I had my kids on the wrist leashes because I had twins with me all the time. What if one had taken off? A two year old or three year old doesn't listen. Stand in a store and watch some mom with a loose kid. And when my kids were 4, they no longer needed those leashes, they knew they had to hold my hand or my clothes. Why didn't I use a stroller? Because my son by the age of 3 was too big-at two he was dragging his feet off it because he was so long and they'd get restless being in it.
So don't judge. My kids were safe, they had a small degree of independence and I wasn't frantically calling their names in a strange place. If that mother in England back in 1993 had her two year old son attached to her in this manner, he wouldn't have been snatched and killed in the instant it took for her to let go of his hand to pay a vendor. If that mother down the street from me had her child attached to her as she left the laundromat, he wouldn't have bolted and gotten killed under the wheels of a car.
Yea, pets. Tell that to those mothers. You think we grow extra arms after we give birth or something?

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Deltona Couple

I do try to take constructive information with an open mind. But I do also accept the fact that everyone has a right to their own opinion. This in mind I will simply state in response to your question, I do not consider this trading off privacy/freedom for security. For one, I would NOT be sitting on the internet, thinking, I wonder where my daughter is right now, and invade her privacy, or restrict where she can be at any time using it(freedom). I have no problem with her going out with friends, because I trust her. However I don't trust the sickos out there. So I consider that I am not trading off anything to secure her SAFETY, not security, which In my definition are two separate words when it comes to my children. I would never consider locking her up in a room until she is 18 like someone earlier had suggested. I just simply state that until she is on legal age in the US, I will do ANYTHING to secure her safety. She is my daughter, and NOTHING in my life is more important than my children. That's just the simple truth.
This said I do understand how some people may take this device and use it improperly to spy on their kids, and I am not advocating it to become mandatory, Just answering the question posted as to MY choice. GOD I LOVE THIS FORUM! I just discovered it like this week and am REALLY enjoying the openess I find here! Thankx guys and gals!

sapiens

I didn't even know they had "wrist leashes". All I have seen are harnesses around the child's body and the parents holding the end of an "extend-a-leash" with their kids 10 feet away from them attached by a cable. The harness is very similar in design to the one I put on my dog. I found a few descriptions of the leash I am talking about:

http://roughdraft.typepad.com/dotmom..._people_w.html
In my limited experience with the leashes I have seen, they are not used by parents who want their kids to be nearby and safe. They are used by parents who want their kids to be able to run wild and not have to pay attention to them. Some of the parent comments in the link above talk about how hilarious it was to have their child on all fours barking like a dog while they walked around an airport.

My position is similar to the the father below:

http://roughdraft.typepad.com/dotmom..._people_w.html
I guess I could imagine some limited uses in very limited circumstances without an extend-a-leash. My personal concern is that I want my daughter to learn how to walk responsibly and be aware of her surroundings. I think that leashes often give kids a false sense of security. I don't let my daughter wear a lifejacket in the kiddie pool for the same reason. I want her to learn to respect the water and handle herself appropriately. (Of course, I'm always within reach of her and if we were in a boat or water above my head, she'd have a life preserver on).

I don't know how you used leashes and it's not my business. I would never say anything to anyone I saw using a leash. It's not my business. I just don't like them or the way they are often implemented. I also don't think that in not using a leash I'm taking unreasonable risk of having my daughter snatched and killed. I think that I'm decreasing the risk by teaching her to act responsibly.

ngdawg

And just how responsible do you think a two year old is? And you said 'daughter', as in ONE child. Some of us have more than one.
The insinuation that I didn't teach my kids responsiblity by using the wrist leashes is again, offensive. Quite the opposite is true. They were extremely well behaved because Mommy had them there at all times-there was no need for calling them over, yelling at them 100 times to stay put or 'don't run'. There is nothing more annoying than being in a mall, a store or even a fair and almost being knocked over by a small kid who just HAD to see the pretty colored item on the shelf. Or see some kid walking up and down aisles calling 'mommy' in one part of a store while the mother is calling the kid's name in another part. Where's the responsibility in that? My attention wasn't divided so that I lost sight of my kids because they were right there.
Your 'experience' with such devices isn't limited. It's nil. You haven't looked into using any because of your opinion of them at the outset. Kids can't 'run wild' if a 6ft piece of elastic attaches them to a parent. But they can and DO run wild when they aren't and the parent becomes otherwise occupied.
I found that comment piece you posted-one negative remark in a sea of positives that you felt was necessary to back your opinion up. I'd use up too much bandwidth to post the rest that supported that woman's choice.

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sapiens

I wasn't saying ANYTHING about your parenting. I even stated:
I didn't insinuate that you didn't teach responsibility. That's why I said:
I DON"T KNOW how you used leashes. I don't know how you parent. It's none of my business. I think that the way that leashes often seemed to be used in public is not conducive to teaching responsibility.

I could have just as easily accused you of insinuating that people who don't use leashes are irresponsible parents because they are risking their child being snatched and killed or running under the wheels of a car. I don't think that you
meant that, but it could be inferred.

Again, I wasn't speaking about your parenting abilities. I agree that children wandering around stores without parental supervision is bad. My point was that I often see children wandering around without parental supervision on leashes. (And off leashes, of course).

You don't know whether or not I looked into using them. Obviously, I have considered them. I outlined my rationale for not using them with my daughter in my last post. I said "limited" because I haven't used one with my daughter. That doesn't translate to "nil." There are many things that you don't have to try to know that you don't want to use them.

As I said in my last post, I was referring to extend-a-leashes attached to children. That said, kid's can "run wild" regardless of the length of leash (and regardless of whether they are on a leash at all). Again, to be clear, I am not speaking about your parenting or how you used a leash. I am speaking about the potential (and the seemingly actual in many cases that I have seen) misuse of the child leash.

I'm not surprised that you found the comment piece. I could have posted the quotes I chose without a link. I chose to include the link so that you could find it. I'm not trying to attack you with a one-sided argument. I'm not trying to "win". I'm just trying to discuss.

Yes, there was a lot of support for the woman who wrote about using a leash on their child. I read the whole thread and several other postings as well. After reading all of the comments, I still don't agree with it. Many of the comments reinforced my opinion. There was a lot of outrage about people commenting on rude people in stores commenting on their leashes. I agree with all of the comments that commenting on someone else's leash in a store is rude.

Revisiting my initial post, I should have specificed more of my rationale for disliking leashes. I can see how it could be inflammatory to someone who uses leashes. However, the first thing that comes to mind when I see someone with their child on a leash is still a dog on a leash.

To conclude, I don't like leashes. I especially don't like them when they are used when unnecessary and result in a parent paying less attention to their child.
However, as I said in my last post, I can see their utility in very limited circumstances.

OK, maybe I'm not concluding yet:

An aside: I've restrained many, many, many children in my life- kids ranging from 4 to 17 years old (in a locked mental health setting). I've restrained kids with my body, with safety coats (straight jackets for kids), in seclusion rooms, and I've called in nurses to administer chemical restraints. Any time I restrained a kid, it was necessary. I still don't like restraints of any kind. They make me uncomfortable and I think that they are over used. I'm not saying this to support an argument. (It might detract from one). I'm saying it to give context to my statements. My rationale for not using restraints is still the rationale I outlined earlier - because I think that they can be misused. (And probably because I don't find that I need to use them with my daughter). Again, I'm not saying anything about your use of a leash or your parenting.

analog

[MOD NOTE]

I can see where you're both coming from. I know that while sapiens has his negative feelings/opinions on the use of "leashes", ngdawg finds that the opinions insinuate something about the parenting of those who use them.

Let's just take a little step back, have a deep breath, and be aware of the way both of your responses are causing personal feelings to become part of this topic's discussion.

Thanks

- analog.

[/MOD NOTE]

genuinegirly

I am the youngest in my family.
One of the few things I remember from my childhood was my leash.
It wasn't used often. It made me feel safe and secure. I would trace the leash to mom or dad or my brother and get their attention. I was probably about 3 or 4? who knows. I'm with ngdawg here though. Physical leashes for children are great. I don't know if I'll end up using one when my kids are that age. my sister didn't... but I sure didn't mind mine.

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raeanna74

When my daughter was going through her running streak. I could go to any store and the minute I walked in she was trying to wrestle her hand from mine. She was getting to be big enough that I did not want to put her in the cart all the time cause she knew how to unlatch herself. It helped tremendously to be able to put her on a leash. MOST of the time parents don't have the choice to not take the child to the store with them. How many threads have we had on here of kids running rampant in stores and restaurants? So why NOT have the kids on leashes? WHEN needed of course?

I did not use the leash very often really. Primarily when I knew she would be a problem in the store or when I had more than one child with me and needed to watch all of them. 3 or 4 kids are too many to be able to watch 100% of the time with only 2 eyes. Honestly, Parents don't grow a pair of eyes in the back of our heads - though we wish we did .

When I used a leash I had MANY people in the stores approach me with approval. They saw that it encouraged the child to behave, made them safer, and me less stressed. My daughter tried to do the doggy thing but I didn't allow her to do it in the store. She played doggy and other animals at home, not in public. Though it's cute, it's not in the store - you shop and leave, not play.

As for lojacking my kid. I don't think I would. Not unless it was when they were very small. But then I'm pretty careful of how far she gets from me and I would know where she was before a lojack did - unless she was kidnapped. Once she's a teenager she will have to learn from her own mistakes as well. I intend to try to build a trust and encourange openness, responsibility in her. Some kids learn well and other's don't though so I can't guarantee she'll be entirely responsible. I won't lojack her though to keep tabs on her. I think it would encourage me to be more lazy about asking her where she was going and when she was returning.

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ngdawg

I agree. Lojacking a teenager builds a wall of mistrust on both sides. My kids, now 14, know that if they break a trust, they're screwed. My daughter is always with friends, but we know where because we either take her there or the friends' parents come get her. I have an index card of their phone numbers by the phone and she has a curfew of 11pm weekends and summer and 9pm school nights. So
far, she's stuck to that very well, calling us at 10:55 to come get her.
This is not to say that at some point, dropping her at a friend's house would guarantee that's where she stays. But again, it's a matter of trust and the child knowing what will happen if that trust is betrayed. Currently, she's very open, saying that they went to the book store from there, etc.
As for the leashes, I've gotten comments from both sides. When someone said she'd wished her daughter used them, but the daughter said the dog remark, I replied 'Just tell her a dog can be replaced, a child can't'(she liked that comeback). But 99% of the time the remarks were compliments on my 'parenting'. I truly believe that it filtered into other areas-in restaurants, ours weren't the ones making noise, running, bothering other diners; in fact, one time when we got up to leave, a woman in the booth behind us exclaimed, 'Oh!! You had children with you???' (they were 3 at the time). Another time, a mom with a son tugging and pulling on her as they walked remarked she'd wished she had those-I gave her one of my spares and the next week when we saw each other again, there they were, the boy quietly by her side, attached to her wrist. She thanked me profusely.
Children know how to play that 'aggravate mommy and daddy' game very well-just watch the toddler running off laughing while mommy goes after him, frustrated. I had no intentions of playing that. And now that they're older, that's become a real simple fact in this house.

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Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

Deltona Couple

I must disagree with you on this point, as it is more and opinion, than a fact. As I had said in my earlier post, I have discussed this with my daughter at length,(She is 14 now) and she had absolutely no problem with it, and actually likes the idea of us being able to know where she is at a moments notice if needed. I have told her I would never use it to be "big brother", and would only need it in case of emergency, and she has no problem with it.
It all boils down to COMMUNICATION. To many parents are afraid to talk to thier kids, and be HONEST with them these days. Why? I'll never understand. Now I am not saying that directed at ANYBODY, because I don't know anyone here, but just in general. I see it on news specials all the time where they inerview kids, and for the most part, their biggest complaint is that parents don't sit down and talk to them honestly about things. Isn't that what we are here for? Just sayin....lol

The_Dunedan

My children, if/when they come, will never be "chipped." I would shoot anyone who tried to "chip" me or my kids involuntarily, and I'll be damned if I'll "chip" my kids myself.

Privacy considerations aside, you have to consider the ease with which ID theft takes place today; if your child is "chipped," you are dealing with the possibility of someone stealing personal data off the chip the same way they do from cellphones...or worse, using the chip's tracking function to find and abduct your child.

Deltona Couple

For starters, the chip ID tag is NOT full of information about your child. It merely contains a single id number. Your child is assigned a number, say 12345678, and so THAT is the only information on thie chip itself, so if someone were actually able to jack the information from the chip, all they would get is a number.

And as far as tracking them, the would-be-kidnapper would need to know first, that your child even IS chipped, then your childs name, your name, the ID code of the chip, the security code assigned to you as a parent, as well as a POLICE WARRANT to access that information, as the current system is designed. So I do not see it making them a greater risk of being kidnapped. Besides, I would think it were more a deterrent, knowing that if you grab the child, you would be tracked while transporting.

I am not saying it is a perfect system, NOTHING IS, but when it comes to my child's safety, NOTHING is more important to me or my wife. period.

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"It is not that I have failed, but that I have found 10,000 ways that it DOESN'T work!" --Thomas Edison

The_Dunedan

I'm not talking about a kidnapping for ransom, although that is also certainly a consideration. I'm talking about a garden-variety snatching. Those are pretty rare, true, but they do happen. A pedophile could hack the tracking system, just as every other kind of computer can be hacked, and see the locations of thousands of children.
Also, what makes you someone couldn't just hack all that information from the company itself? Banks and individuals get robbed like that on a fairly regular basis; why not this data too? Peoples identities get stolen all the time in such a way. And what's this about a criminal getting a WARRANT?!
As for the deterrant value, kidnappers in Mexico have already figured out how to avoid being tracked by their victims' implanted chips: they just cut off the arm/leg where the chip is emplanted and leave the thing someplace. Some of the nicer ones just dig the chip out with a pocketknife. Mexican VIPs have been getting chipped for about two years now, and the above-described has already happened several times, most recently to the vice-president of a Mexican bank.


If nothing is more important to you than the safety of your child, DON'T GET THEM CHIPPED.

Deltona Couple

Your statement Dunedan is one of personal opinion, and I am treating it as such. However if you had read one of my earlier posts on this exact thread, you will have read that it had saved the life of a friend of mine's daughter. And as far as the criminal getting the warrant, what I said was that as the current system for this company is concerned, in order for them to allow access to the tracking codes, (YES the system is coded so nobody can just connect to their system, they would need to be able to hack their encryption codes as well) the parents of the child must have a bench "warrent" signed before they will allow access to the tracking. So if a criminal was trying to "trick" them, it wouldn't work.

As far as hacking into the system, yes it can be done, as it can be done across the nation in other types of systems. But then they would have to figure out which one of the coded ID's were someone they would want to take. there is NO information stored on the chips, or at the company that does this. ALL the company has is the ID code, and the names. Now unless you are into spending some SERIOUS money into the equipment needed to hack into the systems, WITHOUT being detected, track someone, and then look for them and HOPE that the person you are tracking isnt in a crowd....etc... I hope you see my point. It isn't worth the effort required.

Again, a matter of opinion. As I recall, I have never in this thread told ANYONE they should have their child chipped. I merely stated my knowledge, and information, as well as my personal opinions, and responded to others. So in this sence, please don't EVER tell me what to do with my child. Say that you think I am crazy, say that you would never do it to your child, but don't tell me what to do. Thank you.

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"It is not that I have failed, but that I have found 10,000 ways that it DOESN'T work!" --Thomas Edison

jeb3838

Putting a kid on the honor system is like letting the fox guard the hen house. I'm definitely against Big Brother and trust between parents and children is a must. On the other hand young kids can get snatched in the blink of an eye (and that's not paranoria-it happens far too often) and the more populated the world becomes the "creepy people" are going to multiply exponentially.
So I would lo jack my kids...with their knowledge and with an agreed upon protocol - meaning for emergency use only. So we would have a sit down and discuss the parameters of when the family goes to LO JACK Defcon One and that protocol would be adjusted to adapt to the age and maturity of the child.
Kids lie to their parents for good reason...they know we are going to say no and they know when they are pushing the envelope (just like we did). Kids also just simply plain forget sometimes and in a way a Lo Jack device could help them to become more responsible maybe not about being home on time but at least calling to let you know they are ok and will not be home on time. Any kid that is unaccounted for and that means the kid is not where the parent knew the kid was supposed to be either by direct supervision or by trusting the kid to be where they say they are going to be after an agreed upon time violates family failsafe proceedure and its time for LO Jack Def Con one.
I consider myself my children's parent first, their friend second. First responsibility is their safety whether they or the rest of the world like it or not.
Consider this, your kid is a victim of a worse case scenario do you want to be dealing with the guilt and regret that you could have prevented the harm to your child?
Now that I've thought about it I'd even go into Burt Gummer mode and suggest two Lojack devices on each kid because you need a redundant system in case one fails. One transplanted and the other an external device that can be manually activated with panic button like features that I've seen on some of these devices.
Something else to consider is that we and our kids sometimes find ourselves in places and situations we have no control over, stuff happens and I know there is more than once when I wish I would have had a security blanket device on my person when I was in those situations even though I wouldn't admit it then.
Saying it is all about trust is a gross oversimplification of the realities of the world we live in today. Think of it more like defensive driving because it doesn't matter how good a driver you are because there are plenty of bad ones out there to mess up your day. Samething goes with kids, no matter how good a parent you are you can't keep your eyes on them every second of every day and even that wouldn't stop the bad guys in some situations.
Every piece of technology that has ever been developed has been abused by mankind and that will always be human nature, but in many cases it is the exception and not the rule and in this case abuse of the system is entirely in the hands of the parent.
Parents and Kids are probably more likely to give these situations more serious thought and develop a plan for these kinds of situations just by tallking about gettin a LO Jack type device whether they actually do or not and that is probably a good thing.

shakran

There's another side to this debate. I bet the parents of the kids that were kidnapped really wish they'd had a GPS tracker for their kid. . .

Zeraph

I don't know if we're ready for it, but eventaully I believe we should all have tracking and identification devices implanted in us at birth in the base of the skull.

Aro23

everyone had to go through the situation where you had to lie to get something because you knew you were not allowed to, it doesn't matter what the parent's reasons are you have to follow them but part of growing up is making your own decisions so putting devices like this will not solve the problem, heck it can even cause more trust problems for kids and parents. just get to know your kids as you went through their situation as well, always talk to them.